(Topic ID: 239358)

My current take on JJP pinball after TPF....


By iceman44

3 months ago



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    #101 3 months ago
    Quoted from Psw757:

    Sold out at factory doesn’t mean highly profitable.

    That's true and is why I think their future games will be scaled back a bit in terms of features but will still have the same build and code quality that they are known for.

    #102 3 months ago

    "Collectibles" have always been a marketing sham. The sooner everyone can get over the "I have 1 of X" exclusivity boner and simply enjoy a thing for its own intrinsic merit, the sooner they will find happiness. I don't care if JJP makes 2 or 200 or 20,000 WOZYBRLEs, it's not $11.5k worth of fun to me.

    #103 89 days ago
    Quoted from brucipher:

    It's been said in many other posts complaining about every manufacturer...if you don't like it, don't buy it. None of these pinball companies are perfect - either JJP is too expensive, or Stern's quality sucks, or Spooky is making pins too slowly, or there is a decal crack on a CGC machine, etc. etc. Whatever a companies motives are - either to get richer or to stay in business, it is their prerogative. Speak with your wallet. If a company truly makes bad decisions they will go out of business and perhaps that is what should happen. I don't want any of these companies to go out of business as I think they all provide something cool and unique to the world of pinball.

    So I just left my friends place in snowmass and she has a mmrle from 3 years back and noticed the decal wrap .... it’s perfect

    I would rather have the wrap on my mbrle coming out w a slight crack or not than compared to them cutting the decals right now

    #104 89 days ago

    Well having owned almost all of the JJP games I might as well chime in too..

    Yeah the collectible thing was a bummer when RR came out.. but when it meant JJP might survive with it I didn't care about it..
    and apparently my WOZECLE is now worth more than I paid for it!

    For me since then (with the exception of DI) the wildly overly complex rule set may be "deep" but I HATE IT... it makes TH and POTC no fun... who wants to walk up to a game and pick from 22? different characters and figure what to do with them next and strategize how they affect everyone else and the rest of the game..

    Build quality on WOZ, TH, DI, and POTC are all amazing.. especially the ones on TH and WOZ.. they are superior to every game that's come out from Stern in the same time period (though AC/DC P and Pro MET are very nice).. and JJP should charge a $1000 more..
    but $11K at TPF was not only a joke but stupid/insulting to all of us home buyers.. I don't see how they survive at those price points?

    Very much looking forward to Willy Wonka... hopefull a ruleset more like DI/WOZ and still lots of toys/high build quality.. BUT NOT FOR $11K plus...

    #105 89 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Some of these JJP doom and gloom comments make me laugh. Jack said at TPF they are sold out of every game at the factory. They are more successful today then they have ever been and have a big release with Wonka right around the corner and a second game being announced later this year.
    Personally I think JJP is only going to grow as a company. I wouldn't be surprised though if Wonka is scaled back a bit in regards to featues.
    YBR is a cash grab though lol. JJP also needs to stop with their unlimited "limited editions" and make LE counts lower. Theres only one true WOZ LE, it was made over 5 years ago and is called the ECLE.

    You are ignoring history and that doesn't really add up. They invested how many years into getting this many POTC out and they are sold out but don't want to make more of them? If they were sold out and doing great they would be taking the opportunity to milk POTC for all its worth and make as much as possible. Not abandon it for something they hope does better. Why are they trying a WOZ cash grab if they are doing great and selling all the POTC they can make? History also says that JJP can't announce a game and in a timely fashion get it to people. How has this changed suddenly with Wonka? Did they add a line so they can run 2 games? Did they add a line so they can run twice as many of the same game? Do they have more employees to be able to handle their current massive success?

    And WOZ has 3 LE's now, you can't just say one is the best so it is the LE. I don't fault JJP for getting what they can out of WOZ. It is the only reason they are still in business. But at the same time you can't pretend the others don't exist because you just want to.

    #106 89 days ago

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 ratio

    #107 89 days ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    You are ignoring history and that doesn't really add up. They invested how many years into getting his many POTC out and they are sold out but don't want to make more of them? If they were sold out and doing great they would be taking the opportunity to milk POTC for all its worth and make as much as possible. Not abandon it for something they hope does better. Why are they trying a WOZ cash grab if they are doing great and selling all the POTC they can make? History also says that JJP can't announce a game and in a timely fashion get it to people. How has this changed suddenly with Wonka? Did they add a line so they can run 2 games? Did they add a line so they can run twice as many of the same game? Do they have more employees to be able to handle their current massive success?
    And WOZ has 3 LE's now, you can't just say one is the best so it is the LE. I don't fault JJP for getting what they can out of WOZ. It is the only reason they are still in business. But at the same time you can't pretend the others don't exist because you just want to.

    It changed because that's what they decided to change. They aren't announcing a game until it's ready or just about ready to be made and shipped. YBR is the first such example - they are making them just days after being announced. WW will be similar, made and shipping shortly after being announced. That is the business model JJP has decided to move forward with. But - they sacrifice being able to make games ad hoc whenever. So, to answer your question, they need to plan ahead on parts and estimate how many games they need or want to make. For POTC, they can't just magically make more from parts they don't have. And the parts don't just show up like amazon prime 2 days later on their door.

    #108 89 days ago

    They added a second line in the factory a long time ago. That’s where YBR WOZ is and where it was always intended to be - never was it going to be on the main line. Main line is finishing up pirates and prepping for number 5 as was the plan for a long ways back. YBR has too small a run planned to have it interfere with the main line.

    #109 89 days ago

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 to 1 ratio

    #110 89 days ago
    Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

    Well having owned almost all of the JJP games I might as well chime in too..
    Yeah the collectible thing was a bummer when RR came out.. but when it meant JJP might survive with it I didn't care about it..
    and apparently my WOZECLE is now worth more than I paid for it!
    For me since then (with the exception of DI) the wildly overly complex rule set may be "deep" but I HATE IT... it makes TH and POTC no fun... who wants to walk up to a game and pick from 22? different characters and figure what to do with them next and strategize how they affect everyone else and the rest of the game..
    Build quality on WOZ, TH, DI, and POTC are all amazing.. especially the ones on TH and WOZ.. they are superior to every game that's come out from Stern in the same time period (though AC/DC P and Pro MET are very nice).. and JJP should charge a $1000 more..
    but $11K at TPF was not only a joke but stupid/insulting to all of us home buyers.. I don't see how they survive at those price points?
    Very much looking forward to Willy Wonka... hopefull a ruleset more like DI/WOZ and still lots of toys/high build quality.. BUT NOT FOR $11K plus...

    Me thinks you're overthinking it. POTC isn't that "deep" nor complicated. Picking a character is fun, but I don't put that much thought into it. The game can't be any simpler to understand...EVERYTHING is right in front of you, either lit on the playfield or on the screen. Plus Gibs tells you what to shoot for the ENTIRE time. Same with DI. It literally guides you through the entire game.

    #111 89 days ago
    Quoted from Zavadoza:

    I don't think we should care about an offshoot model costing a ridiculous price. We didn't get upset about Spiderman Home Edition Supreme (if you did, get an additional hobby). We get it. It's for outsiders. Don't buy it. I prefer my RR and told Jack the price on YBR is high and that POTC should have come with a manual for the price.
    I think what we, as potential buyers of JJP games should look at is on April 12/13th when Willy Wonka is revealed. What will be the price and what will be the features?
    Butch Peel (JJP employee) said last weekend that they won't do something like Pirates again. He kind of backed away from what he was saying, but I took it to mean that JJPOTC was very ambitious and they can't afford another delay. I asked if that meant they won't have all the features and asked him to keep it awesome. I love Pirates. Waiting sucked. Supposedly WW ships within 60 days after reveal.
    Let's see what happens, and save the doom and gloom talk for when the service and build quality from JJP takes a dip. Because it hasn't yet.

    Are you kidding people went apeshit over BK66 Beatles and Supreme they all had bitch threads

    #112 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 to 1 ratio

    Who says they have to? As the apologizers say for Stern releasing Beatles and that whole fiasco, they release what they release, and you either buy it or you don't. Not a whole lot of discussion to be had. The majority of the world would laugh at 6k for a pinball machine, so it's all perspective. To me I find stern raising their prices to match JJP for mostly an inferior product more of an issue, but notice few people complain about that and buy them anyway - even w/o seeing them in person and actually playing them.

    It's a hobby, you can choose to pay as much or as little as you want.

    #113 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 to 1 ratio

    This makes no sense. For so many reasons.

    #114 89 days ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    This makes no sense. For so many reasons.

    Totally agree.

    #115 89 days ago

    So price drop on YBR already starting .... http://pinballs.com/ (11k)

    #116 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 ratio

    Kia makes hundreds of thousands of cars a year. Bentley makes a few thousand. Which is a better car?

    #117 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 ratio

    Ah the old "Stern makes more games so JJP isn't successful" argument, have never understood it. As a customer I don't care if Stern has made 30 games as they still have 1/2 the code, animation quality, code variety, build quality, and features of a JJP pin. 1/2 is being generous I'm some cases.

    -2
    #118 89 days ago

    JJP will be out of business in under 3 years unless the make a complete turnaround in affordability, playability, and integrity.

    #119 89 days ago
    Quoted from meSz:

    So price drop on YBR already starting .... http://pinballs.com/ (11k)

    Wow. Theres no reason WOZ YBR should be more then $10k if Ruby Red was $9500 and included the monkey mech, and a mirrored backglass. YBR has neither...

    #120 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    JJP will be out of business in under 3 years unless the make a complete turnaround in affordability, playability, and integrity.

    Playability? What is wrong with how the machines play?

    Have you seen their books or something?

    #121 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 to 1 ratio

    Yeah we heard you the first time...

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    #122 89 days ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    It changed because that's what they decided to change. They aren't announcing a game until it's ready or just about ready to be made and shipped. YBR is the first such example - they are making them just days after being announced. WW will be similar, made and shipping shortly after being announced. That is the business model JJP has decided to move forward with. But - they sacrifice being able to make games ad hoc whenever. So, to answer your question, they need to plan ahead on parts and estimate how many games they need or want to make. For POTC, they can't just magically make more from parts they don't have. And the parts don't just show up like amazon prime 2 days later on their door.

    They have been claiming this for years and have never once hit a production deadline. And what do you consider shortly? Right now they can only make x# of games per week and that has not changed. Even if they are shipping without a 8-24 month delay like previous titles people could still be waiting 6 months or more for a game.

    They can't just magically make more parts for any game. They didn't order more parts for POTC because it's either not selling or it's not profitable. It makes zero sense to go back and make a new WOZ cash grab if your line is already set up for POTC and it's selling and making you money. If POTC was doing great they would be pumping the cash into a new line to run WOZ or Wonka depending on what their projections tell them will be the most profitable.

    I'm not trying to bag on JJP. I'm just being honest as a customer of theirs that has bought all of their games other then POTC.

    #123 89 days ago
    Quoted from meSz:

    So price drop on YBR already starting .... http://pinballs.com/ (11k)

    I’m sure it’s going to be a hard sell when they still have NIB Emeralds and Ruby Reds.

    #124 89 days ago

    I’m worried about the future of JJP and my pins for future parts if they don’t survive.

    I think JJP should leak pictures of Wonka to forstall people plunking down money on DK3.

    #125 89 days ago

    This whole thread is silly. Wonka will be announced, it'll be amazing, and the Le will be $9500. People will buy them up and it will be the biggest hit for jjp since woz. People will then forget all about the same ybr release, and everyone will be back on with jjp. Seriously, jjps next 3 will be killer titles and as long as production is figured out, everyone will be happy. The ybr edition was nothing more than filler and because they can. They probably just needed something else to excite people to clear out more woz parts. Can't wait to see Wonka.

    #126 89 days ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    Can't argue with the price. I will never pay 11,500 for a pin. Thats my point. If you dont like the price and did not want the YBRWOZ anyway, why worry about it. I will never buy a Stern LE for 9k. Never!! There comes a time and price point where we all feel like, thats enough. For me, its now. I will hold tight and just buy B and C titles. Its become very stupid for JJP and Stern to be at 9k and above.

    Exactly my point. Crazy to buy a YBR at that price

    Why would I buy a “collectors edition” POTCCE, their words, for $12,500 when there will be many more versions of the same pin down the road

    Create the narrative that Potc is finished to drum up sales, put out YBR to grab cash

    Call me cynical but 2+2=4. Raise a pot of $$ to build Wonka

    Potc is NOT finished and Black pearl version is coming

    23
    #127 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    JJP will be out of business in under 3 years unless the make a complete turnaround in affordability, playability, and integrity.

    WOW.

    I respectfully disagree.

    They are ramped up to two games a year. And the next three ___________________, and __________________, and _________________ are going to set pinball on fire.

    These are great times for pinball. And we get to see it happen.

    Toss in Stern, American Pinball, and Spooky. And 2019 is going to be a great year for pinball.

    LTG : )

    -14
    #128 89 days ago
    Quoted from brucipher:

    Playability? What is wrong with how the machines play?
    Have you seen their books or something?

    They play terrible.

    Their books can't be that great, based on their output and questionable decisions.

    #129 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    They play terrible.

    Well, you just lost all credibility. I think even those who are upset with the current decisions by JJP would admit that their games play great.

    #130 89 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    WOW.
    I respectfully disagree.
    They are ramped up to two games a year.
    LTG : )

    They have? Pirates took 10 months to ship after announcement. They announced ZERO pins in 2018. So far this year, they have rehashed WOZ for the 10th time, stripping features and raising prices.

    Quoted from LTG:

    WOW.
    And the next three __________________, and _________________, and ________________ are going to set pinball on fire.
    LTG : )

    Hyperbole.

    Quoted from LTG:

    WOW.

    These are great times for pinball. And we get to see it happen.
    Toss in Stern, American Pinball, and Spooky. And 2019 is going to be a great year for pinball.
    LTG : )

    It will indeed, but I doubt JJP will have a big part in that.

    -16
    #131 89 days ago
    Quoted from brucipher:

    Well, you just lost all credibility. I think even those who are upset with the current decisions by JJP would admit that their games play great.

    Lots of pinheads think they play poorly.

    I have lost no credibility.

    You're a fanboy.

    -17
    #132 89 days ago

    Man I'm sorry but you're one of the really crazy people on Pinside. Pinball is your passion got that but its a business first and foremost. Learn it love it and accept it. What you're is a potential customer for future games, nothing more. You don't work at JJP and you don't have control over their books, and thank God you're not their CEO! Let me address your points line by line.

    1) The reveal wasn't about raising money that is the dumbest thing I've heard... it a reveal only in the sense that they brought the game to Texas Pinball. If you even bothered to listen to the presentation you would have heard JJP is NOT selling the game themselves. You can only buy the game thru a distributor. Let me inform you of something... I can almost promise you EVERY SINGLE GAME IS ALREADY CLAIMED. The Pinball Company even admitted their best selling game EVER is WOZ. Demand is there for more WOZ games from HIGH END distributors so they're a business last i checked, demand is there for their product so they're making more. What don't you understand here?

    2) Yes Jack said they might do more why do you have a problem with that? Do you own a business is there something wrong with you? Would you pass on someone offering you more money to keep your business up and running? Do not confuse passion and business my friend. Why don't you go to Stern and tell them HEY WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP making Ghostbusters after like the 8000 game sold or ACDC see what kind of response you get. Everyone in the Pinball world needs to realize these are business trying to make money in a NICHE market. WAKE UP!

    3) Jack didn't destroy the collectibility of anything, WOZ games still rarely come up for sale and when they do its for a TON OF MONEY. A HIGH END retail location here where I'm from just sold TWO Pirates LE for $12,500 yeah you got that RIGHT $12,500. Furthermore they're planning on selling these new WOZ games for like $15,000 and they will sell them. This doesn't hurt the value of your game it only increases.

    4) Sales of Pirates probably did start off slow for Pirates but as you heard him say clearly THEY SOLD EVERY GAME they pre-ordered parts for. The game is awesome people love it, and as I stated some high end retailers here sold the game for $12,500 and it SOLD. And yes I predicted there would be another run and then Jack confirmed it saying never say never.

    5) Extract every dime what in the hell is wrong with you... this is a business. They should get every dime possible are you living on planet earth. They have employees to pay, bills, are a liberal? Seriously! BTW you stole the Black Pearl Edition from me from another discussion... shame on you! LOL

    6) POTC is NOT a shit franchise as the entire franchise has probably grossed well north of 10 billion dollars maybe even 15 billion with everything included. Disney will re-launch this franchise again. Disney is a licensing machine, but I'm sure a pinball game is such a small part of revenue from this franchise but a cool one none the less.

    7) Its hard to keep responding your points like point seven because you seem to get more and more radical with each point.

    So here is the bottom line for you my friend, aside from the fact you need to see a doctor, let me explain how JJP works.

    They release a game, they're always numbered, then they stop making it to put a different game on the line, only to bring back the last one with a new special edition to it. Special almost always include new powder coating, artwork nothing major but always new sets of numbers. Here is a real prediction without ranting like you did...

    1) Pirates off the line for 6 months. Demand builds to a point where they can sell the game to ONLY to distributors and only in limited quantity. They will release like another 250 in 6 months it will be called like Black Pearl Edition, with new artwork, new powder coating. Every game will be pre-sold.

    2) For now they run another 250 WOZ games because every game is already SOLD! So have no fear there. Then Wonka will go on the line and that game will run until October.

    3) In October they will announce they're taking Wonka off the line, to make 250 more Pirates.

    4) Shortly thereafter they will announce probably at Chicago Pinball Expo GUNS N ROSES and its going on the line after they make 250 more special edition Pirates.

    5) 6 Months after that... they will probably announce another 500 run of Wonka before Toy Story goes on the line.

    This is just how they operate... nothing to get upset about this is their model. If you don't like it don't buy from them that simple!

    #BLACK PEARL

    #133 89 days ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Exactly my point. Crazy to buy a YBR at that price
    Why would I buy a “collectors edition” POTCCE, their words, for $12,500 when there will be many more versions of the same pin down the road
    Create the narrative that Potc is finished to drum up sales, put out YBR to grab cash
    Call me cynical but 2+2=4. Raise a pot of $$ to build Wonka
    Potc is NOT finished and Black pearl version is coming

    As a POTC owner, I don't gaf if they fire up the line again at some point and make as many as they can sell or even come out with special editions. Man, some people get so worked up over shit. Take a fucking xanex.
    I once bought a Ford Explorer that said limited on the back. Sure as shit, if I didn't see another one the other day. FUCK YOU FORD.

    #134 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    Lots of pinheads think they play poorly.
    I have lost no credibility.
    You're a fanboy.

    Hell yeah I am a fanboy...of all pinball. You are a hater.

    #135 89 days ago

    The time between the reveal of game 5 and when it hits the production line will be weeks not 10 months. That’s a deliberate decision; if it weren’t, there are prototypes of game 5 made now that could have been shown at the last few shows. Thing is, they weren’t.

    #136 89 days ago
    Quoted from brucipher:

    Hell yeah I am a fanboy...of all pinball. You are a hater.

    I'm a realist. It tends to bruise some people's bottoms.

    #137 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    Lots of pinheads think they play poorly.
    I have lost no credibility.
    You're a fanboy.

    You are in the top 5 Stern fanboys on this site, constantly bashing JJP and going gaga over anything Stern. Sorry but you have no credibility if you always show a biased towards one manufacturer and yes I've been critical of JJP many times.

    To this day I think some people are still pissed JJP came out of nowhere and started making more loaded pins with far better code support then a majority of Stern pins. JJP's very existence seems to piss them off lol.

    #138 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    I'm a realist. It tends to bruise some people's bottoms.

    A real troll is more like it.

    #139 89 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You are in the top 5 Stern fanboys on this site, constantly bashing JJP and going gaga over anything Stern. Sorry but you have no credibility if you always show a biased towards one manufacturer and yes I've been critical of JJP many times.

    Nonsense. I have issues with Stern and when I do I post them.

    Overall I think Stern is a much healthier, efficient company that produces the most fun pinball games on the market.

    They are hardly perfect.

    -4
    #140 89 days ago
    Quoted from brucipher:

    A real troll is more like it.

    Nice middle school comeback.

    #141 89 days ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I’m worried about the future of JJP and my pins for future parts if they don’t survive.
    I think JJP should leak pictures of Wonka to forstall people plunking down money on DK3.

    Bingo...there is a reason Stern did what they did right after TPF and Jack was begging people not to buy anything in the next 3 weeks. Only so much money in the pot for most and it burns a hole in it fast. Stern just beats them to the punch.

    #142 89 days ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    Man I'm sorry but you're one of the really crazy people on Pinside. Pinball is your passion got that but its a business first and foremost. Learn it love it and accept it. What you're is a potential customer for future games, nothing more. You don't work at JJP and you don't have control over their books, and thank God you're not their CEO! Let me address your points line by line.
    1) The reveal wasn't about raising money that is the dumbest thing I've heard... it a reveal only in the sense that they brought the game to Texas Pinball. If you even bothered to listen to the presentation you would have heard JJP is NOT selling the game themselves. You can only buy the game thru a distributor. Let me inform you of something... I can almost promise you EVERY SINGLE GAME IS ALREADY CLAIMED. The Pinball Company even admitted their best selling game EVER is WOZ. Demand is there for more WOZ games from HIGH END distributors so they're a business last i checked, demand is there for their product so they're making more. What don't you understand here?
    2) Yes Jack said they might do more why do you have a problem with that? Do you own a business is there something wrong with you? Would you pass on someone offering you more money to keep your business up and running? Do not confuse passion and business my friend. Why don't you go to Stern and tell them HEY WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP making Ghostbusters after like the 8000 game sold or ACDC see what kind of response you get. Everyone in the Pinball world needs to realize these are business trying to make money in a NICHE market. WAKE UP!
    3) Jack didn't destroy the collectibility of anything, WOZ games still rarely come up for sale and when they do its for a TON OF MONEY. A HIGH END retail location here where I'm from just sold TWO Pirates LE for $12,500 yeah you got that RIGHT $12,500. Furthermore they're planning on selling these new WOZ games for like $15,000 and they will sell them. This doesn't hurt the value of your game it only increases.
    4) Sales of Pirates probably did start off slow for Pirates but as you heard him say clearly THEY SOLD EVERY GAME they pre-ordered parts for. The game is awesome people love it, and as I stated some high end retailers here sold the game for $12,500 and it SOLD. And yes I predicted there would be another run and then Jack confirmed it saying never say never.
    5) Extract every dime what in the hell is wrong with you... this is a business. They should get every dime possible are you living on planet earth. They have employees to pay, bills, are a liberal? Seriously! BTW you stole the Black Pearl Edition from me from another discussion... shame on you! LOL
    6) POTC is NOT a shit franchise as the entire franchise has probably grossed well north of 10 billion dollars maybe even 15 billion with everything included. Disney will re-launch this franchise again. Disney is a licensing machine, but I'm sure a pinball game is such a small part of revenue from this franchise but a cool one none the less.
    7) Its hard to keep responding your points like point seven because you seem to get more and more radical with each point.
    So here is the bottom line for you my friend, aside from the fact you need to see a doctor, let me explain how JJP works.
    They release a game, they're always numbered, then they stop making it to put a different game on the line, only to bring back the last one with a new special edition to it. Special almost always include new powder coating, artwork nothing major but always new sets of numbers. Here is a real prediction without ranting like you did...
    1) Pirates off the line for 6 months. Demand builds to a point where they can sell the game to ONLY to distributors and only in limited quantity. They will release like another 250 in 6 months it will be called like Black Pearl Edition, with new artwork, new powder coating. Every game will be pre-sold.
    2) For now they run another 250 WOZ games because every game is already SOLD! So have no fear there. Then Wonka will go on the line and that game will run until October.
    3) In October they will announce they're taking Wonka off the line, to make 250 more Pirates.
    4) Shortly thereafter they will announce probably at Chicago Pinball Expo GUNS N ROSES and its going on the line after they make 250 more special edition Pirates.
    5) 6 Months after that... they will probably announce another 500 run of Wonka before Toy Story goes on the line.
    This is just how they operate... nothing to get upset about this is their model. If you don't like it don't buy from them that simple!
    #BLACK PEARL

    every single YBR is claimed...………...

    #143 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 to 1 ratio

    And their production is to be admired and emulated.

    That said, Stern had me disinterested in pinball since the death of B/W, and my interest came blooming back the first time I saw Dialed In and WoZ on location. Every new release from any manufacturer, I yardstick against JJP....not Stern.

    #144 89 days ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    JJP will be out of business in under 3 years unless the make a complete turnaround in affordability, playability, and integrity.

    It is hard to make predictions because so much information is not publicly available. It would be great to get the raw data JJP receives from its distributors. One thing is certain - the competition is going to get more intense. JJP's pins are built like tanks (I mean that in a good way), but I have yet been excited by one of their machines. I am holding out hope for them that GnR is a success, as I would love to see it (and would be first in line to buy it most likely).

    I want JJP to succeed, but I question some of their decisions. Giving Lawlor complete creative control was a mistake. Make DI a different theme, and it sells many more units. There is a reason people were walking out of the room at Texas Pinball when DI was announced - people couldn't believe it was actually the theme. I can say the moment I heard the 4th machine was Pirates, I had absolutely no interest in buying it, but curious to play it. I think the buzz over TNA was greater than anything generated by JJP.

    Stern has the ability to miss more than JJP, since it is able to put out more titles and recover more quickly.

    I wouldn't say JJP will be out of business in 3 years. However, I could see a scenario where they filed Chapter 11 reorganization, shed its debts, and then had a group with more business acumen purchase the company.

    #145 89 days ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    They have been claiming this for years and have never once hit a production deadline. And what do you consider shortly? Right now they can only make x# of games per week and that has not changed. Even if they are shipping without a 8-24 month delay like previous titles people could still be waiting 6 months or more for a game.
    They can't just magically make more parts for any game. They didn't order more parts for POTC because it's either not selling or it's not profitable. It makes zero sense to go back and make a new WOZ cash grab if your line is already set up for POTC and it's selling and making you money. If POTC was doing great they would be pumping the cash into a new line to run WOZ or Wonka depending on what their projections tell them will be the most profitable.
    I'm not trying to bag on JJP. I'm just being honest as a customer of theirs that has bought all of their games other then POTC.

    You said it yourself. They can't just magically make more ports for any game. They bought X parts to make X POTC. It was more successful than they anticipated, but the decision was made to continue with their plan to build YBR and then X game after that. So, they didn't order more POTC parts because they are trying to stick to their new game plan and schedule. This doesn't mean they never will order more POTC parts and build more. You're not understanding how it works in regards to planning these things out. There is a lead time on parts that is probably at least several weeks. I'm betting they were anticipating having some POTCs left over when they ran out of parts and instead they sold out. But they have a schedule to stick to, so they are sticking to it.

    #146 89 days ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I’m worried about the future of JJP and my pins for future parts if they don’t survive.
    I think JJP should leak pictures of Wonka to forstall people plunking down money on DK3.

    I think the announcement of BKSoR is why JJP posted that video teasing what looks like everlasting gobstoppers in their intro video, and a few hours later, a mystery "presentation" was announced for April 12th at MGC in Milwaukee. They don't need to rush to leak anything. Stern isn't going to ship anything but PRO versions of BK between now and April 12. The premium/LE BK aren't scheduled to start shipping until May at the earliest.

    #147 89 days ago

    I don't think JJP were expecting Stern to release BKSR so soon, so they have certainly taken dollars off the table that would have gone to WW.

    #148 89 days ago
    Quoted from Whitenoise3000:

    Stern has released 16 pins in the time that JJP has released 4. I don't see how you can compete when you have a 4 to 1 ratio

    Did JJP ever say publicly they want to directly compete with Stern on volume or number of new machines per year? Anyone?

    #149 89 days ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    You said it yourself. They can't just magically make more ports for any game. They bought X parts to make X POTC. It was more successful than they anticipated, but the decision was made to continue with their plan to build YBR and then X game after that. So, they didn't order more POTC parts because they are trying to stick to their new game plan and schedule. This doesn't mean they never will order more POTC parts and build more. You're not understanding how it works in regards to planning these things out. There is a lead time on parts that is probably at least several weeks. I'm betting they were anticipating having some POTCs left over when they ran out of parts and instead they sold out. But they have a schedule to stick to, so they are sticking to it.

    I need your rose colored glasses. Why waste money changing the line and weeks of down time to build a WOZ no one wants if anything you said about POTC is true. All companies have business plans. All business plans are fluid and constantly being changed as needed. So either POTC is not doing what you claim or management at JJP should be fired. The funniest thing you posted is JJP sticking to a schedule. Their games are really good, built super solid, definitely will love for the hobby, filled with cool stuff, on schedule is not something they have ever been though.

    #150 89 days ago

    too-many-pins looks at Frightner's posts and thinks he needs an editor.

    I kid I kid. Love ya too-many!

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