(Topic ID: 196521)

My Captain Fantastic Died

By DumbOldGuy

6 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by HowardR
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 6 years ago

    I have had a few late 70's Bally SS machines - still have a Lost World and a Strikes & Spares - but always wanted a Captain Fantastic. Just could never find one that wasn't either a) all beat up or b) redone to like-new for an insane amount of money.

    Finally found one, only driven to church by a little old lady. Drove 150 miles, the thing is in a third floor apartment, but I fired it up and played a while and everything was fine.

    Got it down into the truck, (thank God for 20-something sons) drove it home, got it put back together, turned it on, everything still fine. Started a game, scored 300 points going through the upper gates, everything looking and sounding normal; suddenly nothing is working. Lights are still on but no flippers and won't cough up the ball again. Just lays there mocking me. Drop down targets will drop but no life in the saucers, rollovers or bumpers.

    So before I break out the scotch, does someone have an idea where I could start? Like I said I do have some experience with early SS machines (long ways from an expert) and have had pretty good luck but I don't know anything about this beast at all.

    Please help.

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    #2 6 years ago

    Have you checked the fuses? Maybe one of them blew.

    #3 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Have you checked the fuses? Maybe one of them blew.

    Thought I did, went back and found another one, blown. The tag says 50v 10a but it had a 32v fuse in it, which isall I had handy so I stuck it in. (Can that really be right? 50 volts?)

    Anyway, although the fuse clips are shaky (one is half broken off) the thing will now fire up and run. (I'm on my way out to get a 50v fuse) it mostly works EXCEPT:

    Saucers sometimes pop, sometimes don't and bumpers above the flipper don't pop at all.

    I guess moving was rough on the thing, but I swear it was working fine day before yesterday.

    #4 6 years ago

    The fuses that are used in pinball machines are typically rated for either 32v or 125v--they are not rated for the specific voltage for each circuit. You want a 10a 125v fuse. Fuses also come in fast blow and slow blow variants. I think yours is likely a fast blow. If it was slow blow, it would normally be notated as such.

    Trying to drive 50v over a 32v fuse will not work for very long.

    The voltage tolerance of the fuse needs to be greater than the voltage of the circuit that you are using it in.

    As far as the fuse holder goes, most pinball suppliers have fuse holders available. However, depending on the placement and type of the fuse holder that needs to be replaced, you have a few options for the position/angle of the solder lugs on fuse holders so that it will fit in the allotted space without touching anything else.

    #5 6 years ago

    Do the 3 "thumper bumpers" near the top of the playfield work?

    #6 6 years ago

    Bally fuse holders are garbage. It is mandatory to replace them & check ALL fuses for proper values.

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from HowardR:

    Do the 3 "thumper bumpers" near the top of the playfield work?

    No Sir. Dead as Julius Caesar. Very depressing.

    #8 6 years ago

    If the fuse and fuse holder is good, test most of the circuit by temporarily running a jumper wire from the #4 terminal on the transformer to the Red wire on the 4-terminal rectifier. Tap it first to make sure you don't see sparks.

    Note - the terminals in this picture are labeled different from on the schematic.

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    #9 6 years ago

    Your qualifier - "if the fuse and fuse holder is good" - has me stopped for the moment.

    The fuse holder is trash. (As the gentleman above warned).

    In checking the other fuses, one wing on one of them broke clean off with barely being touched.

    The one below it already had a clip with only one wing as well.

    And of course I have the one on top which is blowing fuses.

    So I've ordered a fuse holder (and some other stuff - you can't just buy one lousy ten dollar part, can you?) and should probably wait until it gets here, although I'm considering temporarily wiring in some single-fuse holders I have just so I can move on.

    1 week later
    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from HowardR:

    If the fuse and fuse holder is good, test most of the circuit by temporarily running a jumper wire from the #4 terminal on the transformer to the Red wire on the 4-terminal rectifier. Tap it first to make sure you don't see sparks.
    Note - the terminals in this picture are labeled different from on the schematic.

    So I went ahead and replaced the fuse holder you show in your photo and voila. Bumpers fire up as they should.

    Until they don't but that's another issue. (see next post)

    Thanks for your kind help

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The fuses that are used in pinball machines are typically rated for either 32v or 125v--they are not rated for the specific voltage for each circuit. You want a 10a 125v fuse. Fuses also come in fast blow and slow blow variants. I think yours is likely a fast blow. If it was slow blow, it would normally be notated as such.
    Trying to drive 50v over a 32v fuse will not work for very long.
    The voltage tolerance of the fuse needs to be greater than the voltage of the circuit that you are using it in.
    As far as the fuse holder goes, most pinball suppliers have fuse holders available. However, depending on the placement and type of the fuse holder that needs to be replaced, you have a few options for the position/angle of the solder lugs on fuse holders so that it will fit in the allotted space without touching anything else.

    I replaced all the fuse holders and since I couldn't find a 10a 125v fuse I put a 10a 250v fuse in that top slot (in the three-fuse holder)

    Game played GREAT...for about 20 seconds. Then the fuse blew. Tried another one, same deal.

    Now I know fuses are cheap but at 20 seconds a pop I'm still not sure I can justify it.

    Do you have any thoughts you would share? I'm so close it's killing me.

    #12 6 years ago

    10A 250V fuse is fine.

    You probably have a switch bent closed somewhere, or a switch solder tab bent making contact - holding a solenoid on causing the fuse to blow. Check all solenoids with playfield up & game started to locate.. should be obvious & buzzing.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from DumbOldGuy:

    fuses are cheap but at 20 seconds a pop I'm still not sure I can justify it.

    Where's your dedication, man???

    But seriously, there are small resettable circuit breakers you can attach a blown fuse or alligator clips to.

    #14 6 years ago
    Quoted from HowardR:

    Where's your dedication, man???
    But seriously, there are small resettable circuit breakers you can attach a blown fuse or alligator clips to.

    I'm not much of a stock market guy but I'm seriously looking at investing in a fuse maker, based on the growing pile of burnouts. Now I understand why guys buy these things in bulk.

    Quoted from dasvis:

    10A 250V fuse is fine.
    You probably have a switch bent closed somewhere, or a switch solder tab bent making contact - holding a solenoid on causing the fuse to blow. Check all solenoids with playfield up & game started to locate.. should be obvious & buzzing.

    The culprit is the Thumper Bumper on the upper right. Touch it, breath on it, look at it cross-eyed and down goes the fuse. (My son put a cardboard ring around it and the thing plays fine otherwise but I'm not thinking that's an optimal solution going forward.)

    With the playfield up and a game started, literally the nanosecond that switch touches boom. New fuse time. Not sticking (cleaned it up good just to make sure) not observably deformed.

    Where do I go from here, aside from putting colorful Elton John faces on the cardboard ring?

    #16 6 years ago

    HowardR above tried to tell me to do this.

    I cleverly figured I was only one or two fuses away from solving the problem, so why bother?

    Thanks for the link - I just ordered one.

    I'm a slow learner, but I do learn.

    #17 6 years ago
    Quoted from DumbOldGuy:

    Where do I go from here, aside from putting colorful Elton John faces on the cardboard ring?

    Using your multimeter check the resistance on the coil for that thumper bumper. Compare to one of the others. Remove from circuit when metering to get an accurate reading. If the coil's resistance is super low then you'll blow the fuse when the coil is activated by closure of the switch.

    1 week later
    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from HowardR:

    Where's your dedication, man???
    But seriously, there are small resettable circuit breakers you can attach a blown fuse or alligator clips to.

    As I mentioned, I took this advice and am glad I did since I seem to have made no progress at all.

    I completely rebuilt the thumper bumpertop and bottom (everything but the switch). The top assembly was raggedly looking and needed to be done anyway.

    But I noticed that there was some resistance against the plunger so although the coil tested out fine I changed it out for a brand new one.

    Fired it up, ball hit the bumper, fuse blew.

    Right back to square one.

    #19 6 years ago

    I mean seriously, after replacing all the components, where do you go from there?

    #20 6 years ago
    Quoted from DumbOldGuy:

    I mean seriously, after replacing all the components, where do you go from there?

    (Assuming the new coil came with a new diode) If disconnecting one wire on the new coil keeps the fuse from blowing, try swapping the wires on the new coil.

    #21 6 years ago
    Quoted from HowardR:

    (Assuming the new coil came with a new diode) If disconnecting one wire on the new coil keeps the fuse from blowing, try swapping the wires on the new coil.

    No, I reused the old diode.

    Was that not a good idea?

    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from DumbOldGuy:

    No, I reused the old diode.
    Was that not a good idea?

    At the risk of stating the obvious, diodes are one-way valves for electricity. Yours might be shorted or hooked up backwards.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from HowardR:

    At the risk of stating the obvious, diodes are one-way valves for electricity. Yours might be shorted or hooked up backwards.

    Well in my defense, I do know that diodes are like check valves for electricity. Unfortunately it never occurred to me to check whether the diode itself was bad.

    Which it was. Now replaced, bumper working normally.

    A HUGE thank you. I'd name my next child after you but I'm done with rugrats. Sorry.

    Now having an issue with the drop targets, which I replaced and now when you get the fifth one down they all stay down, just racking up points, but it's real progress.

    #24 6 years ago

    If the Targets Down relay doesn't activate, start with these switches. There are other switches that could be at fault but this is a good place to start.

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    #25 6 years ago

    Finally had a chance yesterday to open it back up and it took maybe 5 minutes to find the culprit switch.

    Working fine now, I'm like a kid in a candy store. A 40 year old candy store but still. What a great game.

    Thank you 1000 times.

    So maybe I can ask one more question?

    The thing plays fine, scores fine,works normally UNLESS you manage to get the double bonus (A+B). When you do, and the ball finally drains, you get no chime and no score from it. You can hear a repeating click-click-click like it's counting it down but, like I said, no doorbell and no numbers.

    If you only get one of the two letters, it tallies the bonus correctly complete with bells.

    What's going on.

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from DumbOldGuy:

    The thing plays fine, scores fine,works normally UNLESS you manage to get the double bonus (A+B). When you do, and the ball finally drains, you get no chime and no score from it.

    Check the switches in this circuit, most likely the 3 near the bottom.

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