(Topic ID: 143882)

My Art-Grail Pick-up *OR* A Family Pinball Vay-cay: '64 Bally Hay-Ride


By RyanClaytor

4 years ago



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  • 296 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by dmarston
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There are 296 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
#151 3 years ago

I got the...

IMG_3591_(resized).jpg

...buttoned-up yesterday. For those keeping track, it's right here:

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...and looks like this:

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...and this:

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I'm going to start by reitterating...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...this has been far-and-away the filthiest unit of the backbox...

...and here's some more proof:

IMG_4073_(resized).jpg

That's after a single swipe on the disassembled unit. (You can sort of make out the path on the unit in the background.) It was covered in thick, black, grease.

As another example, here's what the nylon cog looked like to begin with:

IMG_4062_(resized).jpgIMG_4065_(resized).jpg

...but after a little...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Pecos' cleaning method

IMG_4076_(resized).jpg

...it now looks like this:

IMG_4077_(resized).jpg

The silver lining of this unit being so filthy, is that it yielded some pretty great comparison shots:

BeforeAfter2_(resized).jpgBeforeAfter3_(resized).jpg

And I don't think I'll ever tire of this one:

BeforeAfter4_(resized).jpg

To my surprise, there was another thing to clean once I peered around the Match Unit:

bell_(resized).jpg

So while I had access to this second bell, I took it off, cleaned the solenoid, and gave the larger bell the same treatment as the first.

BeforeAfter5_(resized).jpg

Not as dramatic as the first transformation, but still sittin' pretty:

BeforeAfter6_(resized).jpg

(Pardon the grainy "before" shot...didn't really think to shoot that one beforehand.)

I did, however, encounter a problem on the Match Unit before I got it back together. There was a blackened coil on the unit:

coil_(resized).jpg

...which, on first glance, I assumed could be dusted off and I'd move along with the remainder of the cleaning. Unfortunately, on closer inspection:

IMG_4045_(resized).jpg

...this thing looked like it had bubbled-up. I'm guessing it locked-on and overheated earlier in its life, so I'll likely have to track down a stuck switch at some point.

*Makes note on Hay-Ride to-do list.*

notes.gif

On top of that, the coil stop was seemingly welded to the solenoid. I tried using a lot of might and twisting and jimmying, but nothing budged it. Thankfully, Steve Young at PBR came to the rescue. I placed an order for that, my stopless coil stop from back on the thousands reel, and several other goodies that should help me bring this beautiful machine back to the glory it deserves.

With all that said, this unit is essentially done. I reinstalled everything, save for the toasted coil and stop. Here's your final dose of self-indulgent comparions:

BeforeAfterMain_(resized).jpg

And for all intents and purposes, the backbox is done! The final few things I need to complete are:

1) Replace thousands reel coil stop bracket
2) Replace match unit solenoid and coil stop
3) Clean the...

jonesPlugs_(resized).jpg

Which means, this'll be the last substatial update for a while.

patrick.gif

See you in August when I return to the state. ...unless I can find a way to fit the cabinet in overhead.

#152 3 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

I've been thinking of doing that on my Double-Up. ...issues...
Drilling the hole for the lock - how to?

I actually know this one! I've worked with plexi a bit before and was told (and shown) that the way to drill holes is to use a drill press with the appropriately sized hole saw...

holesaw_(resized).jpg

...only, when you drop it into the plexi, you just press the saw down a little bit and then pull up. Do that multiple times. Each time you release some plexi shavings will empty-out of the crevasse you're creating. I'm told this is to prevent the plexi from heating-up, melting, trapping the saw blade and ruining both the saw and the plexi.

Hope this helps.

...but this is also a fine suggestion:

Quoted from bingopodcast:

Pecos, you might try PM'ing Mk1mod0 on pinside - he has done an acrylic pinball cabinet and playfield, and is currently working on an acrylic bingo cabinet and playfield!
If anyone knows the answers to those questions, it'd be him.

Mk1Mod0 will know a LOT more than I do about this stuff. Guaranteed.

Also...

Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Why not a wood back door with a thinner plexiglass window in it?

I can envision how that would work as well on a tighter budget!

Finally...

Quoted from Pecos:

Almost forgot. Your stepper units *are* gleaming - nice work!

...thanks a bunch. Now that I'm done with the backbox mechs you can all expect invitations to a dinner party at my house where we will all use my stepper units as dinner plates.

#153 3 years ago

P.S. Thread Maintenance: Since this thread looks to be on it's way to a sizable document, I also started a "Table of Contents" section on the first post. Currently it looks something like this:

- -- ------ -- -

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

- Introduction (Page 1)

Road Trip Acquisition Story
- Day 1 (Page 1)
- Day 2 (Page 1)
- Day 3 (Page 1)
- Day 4 (Page 1)
- Playfield Glamour Shots (Page 1)
- Backglass Glamour Shots (Page 1)
- Acknowledgements (Page 1)

RESTORATION:

Backbox Cleaning
- 1's Score Reel (Page 2)
- 10's Score Reel (Page 2)
- 100's Score Reel (Page 3)
- 1000's Score Reel (Page 3)
- Thumper Control Unit (Page 3)
- Ball Count Unit (Page 3)
- Added Ball Unit (Page 3)
- Advance Unit (Page 3)
- 0-9 Match Unit (Page 3)

Cabinet Cleaning
- SEE YOU LATE AUGUST 2016

- -- ------ -- -

This first upload took a little while, but it should be easy to update from here on out. Hopefully this will make browsing this behemoth a little easier.

There were also a few animated gifs that were rendered impotent after a recent Pinside update. Can't have that. Went back and reloaded the broken ones. Now all is right in the world.

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3 weeks later
#154 3 years ago

Still on vacation over here and gearin'-up for Comic-Con on Wednesday, but I received a pretty awesome email out of the blue. You may recall...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

I asked [the seller] when his dad bought the machine and he told me it was somewhere around '63, '64, '65. Could it be? A home-use only (HUO) Hay-Ride???

...well, shortly before I left on vacation, I emailed the seller to let him know I'd finally made it to my summer break from teaching, made some headway on his old Hay-Ride, and directed him to this thread. Just a few days back the seller's father emailed me and let me know the following:

"Thought you might want some history on the machine,. I was working in [Connecticut] in 1975, when one of my coworkers said his girlfriend had a non working pinball machine. She was willing to cook us dinner if I, as an electrical engineer would try to fix the machine. Of course, a free home cooked meal to a twenty something year old bachelor means a lot. So I went, spent some time with the machine and got nowhere. I told her that it was going to take a lot more time than I was willing to give it. Sometime later, she approached me and asked if I would be willing to buy it for $75. So in 1975, I bought it. I eventually got it to work. I moved it to [Delaware], then to [Indiana], back to [Deleware] and finally to [Connecticut] where both our sons played many games on it. Once the boys moved out [the seller] expressed interest in having it and that is how it would up in [Massachusetts]"

Needless to say, I was pretty excited to hear a more accurate history of my machine, and more importantly to have made a connection with the seller's father (whom, I was told, was a bit wistful, albeit accepting, about the sale of their family's Hay-Ride). He and I have exchanged a few emails since this first excerpt I posted above and he is just as upstanding as his son who sold me the machine. You know, they say the best thing about this hobby is the people you meet. I feel like that is definitely the case here.

Anyhow, while this wasn't confirmed to be a HUO machine, I'm pretty surprised to find out this particular example is still so well in tact after so many moves and so many years of enjoyment. The seller's father also shed some light on a few of the fixes and imperfections of the machine and why they were made. Again, how often do you dig into a restoration and think, "why would this have been done?" Lots of fun for me to hear some of the motivation behind them.

Alright, all, see you back here in August for some more Hay-Ride restoration.

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#155 3 years ago

For some reason I haven't been keeping up with this thread like I did the Swinger. All caught up now and Ryan's on vacation.

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3 weeks later
#156 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

For some reason I haven't been keeping up with this thread like I did the Swinger. All caught up now and Ryan's on vacation.

Oooo...an animated gif. You know the way to my heart.

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Anyway....

HI AGAIN!

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Nice to be back and tinkerin'.

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If you recall, a couple months back I found a 1000's reel coil bracket with...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

No coil stop(!??!)

...and now that my parts order arrived, I set to replacing that. So here we go...

IMG_5212.jpg

Below, on the left you'll see the original bracket sans-stop all cleaned-up, on the right is the new bracket with stop.

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Unfortunately, the new bracket didn't seem to have the switch-stack holes drilled far enough up the bracket:

IMG_5215.jpg

But, I am still relatively new to this tinkering business, so I installed the switch stack as far up as I could and reassembled, just to see if the switches would be actuated appropriately. Here's what I found:

switchesBAD.jpg

In the 0 position, the arm moved BOTH leaves of the switch on the right, keeping it closed instead of allowing it to open.

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My suspicions were correct, even installed at the highest possible position the switch stack was too low to actuate appropriately. I started thinking of ways to counteract this. I had almost resigned myself to visiting a big box store to buy some washers in order to give the bracket a little more space, when I remembered that a while back both my 10's and 100's units were...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

missing a screw on the coil bracket...

...and I already stopped by...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...a hardware store and pick[ed]-up a suitable replacement.

Viola!

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So here's my "operator fix":

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With my "nut-washers" installed...

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...it functioned surprisingly well:

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My one lingering concern was that since the bracket and stop were raised, the coil might pull the plunger and armature in too far, causing wear on the nylon armature connected to the plunger. However, I tested it...A BUNCH...and it is definitely not hitting. It also seems to make a complete movement, as it is supposed to, and moves that reel appropriately each and every time. I'm putting a fork in the 1000's reel!

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The final hanging chad in my backbox was that...

...in the Match Unit.

Again, thanks to the parts order (which arrived hours before I left on vay-cay) I now have a shiny new coil:

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As you can see above, I exercised my ham-fisted soldering skills and made short work of replacing that coil.

The stop from the old coil was pretty much welded into place:

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So, I ordered a new one of those, too...

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...and thanks to the patented Claytorian meticulously-labeled baggies...

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...got everything reassembled (after the disassembly from a month-and-a-half ago).

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Woo!

Now before I completely button-up the backbox, I have a couple of concerns.

Concern #1: After I reassembled the match unit coil and tested it, it seemed to work...meehhh...pretty well. It would actuate and spring back into place about 2/3 of the time, but then it seems to get sluggish in portions of its cycle. I just cleaned everything on this unit (a month-ish ago), and everything appears to be aligned properly. If I really ram the plunger up in the coil and release it very quickly, it drops down the vast majority of the time, but when I actuate the plunger slowly, it has a more difficult time springing back into place. It sort of feels like the sluggishness is coming from the spider arms dragging on the rivets(???)..but I could be totally wrong about that. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Concern #2: So, everyone remembers my pride and joy of the match unit restoration, right?

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

the match unit bell

BeforeAfter4.jpg

Weeelllll...I came back to this project after a month or so away to find this:

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...and this:

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So, what is going on here? Do I need to wax or seal the bell if I want it to stay pristine? Will that dampen the sound?

As usual, thanks for your help, and it's nice to be back.

#157 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

It sort of feels like the sluggishness is coming from the spider arms dragging on the rivets(???)

Well, your suspicion is probably correct.

Try loosening the spider a little bit and see if that does anything to help the situation. Not a lot, mind you, but there's a small sweet spot between too loose and too tight.

Otherwise, your clock spring on the back is too tight and the ratchet action can't quite.... make it.

Your operator fix. I would suggest perhaps one of two courses of action. But first, here's the thing to note.

1) Your armature won't wear out any faster that way
2) Your coil sleeve/stop/coil bobbin will be destroyed over time.

There is slack now between the plunger and sleeve, and the bracket. That's bad (TM). Here's the stuff you can do:

1) Forget about it - this is on the thousands and with a good functioning tilt bob/relay (HINT) you'll be just fine. If you take this course of action, you'll want a nut on the back of the screw as well. Just for good measure. Probably a nylock nut. You can also use a longer sleeve, but really the plunger will destroy it regardless, but it would improve the situation.

2) Drill new screw holes, and tap them. This is difficult and requires specialized tools that you might not have.

3) Cut the switches and solder back together. This is easier than it sounds. You can do so with silver solder or otherwise break 'em. Not a great solution either.

4) Only attach one screw to hold the stack in place. (The one further back). Again, use a longer screw, back it with a nylock nut, make it very very tight. Be prepared for switches to come out of adjustment.

Which solution you choose is up to you. Your game and all!

Bell: yes, first of all, that's all from oils from your hands. Does it wipe off easily? If so, leave it alone.

If not, then yes, you're getting some tarnish or rust. You do need to protect it. Wax is an easy thing to add, and should help. Any tarnish will change the sound of the bell (but in this case it is so slight that you'll probably not even notice it). It will likely get worse, as tarnish tends to do. Caused by exposure to the air.

My suspicion is that it was plated, but you've wire wheeled all the plating away. Not the end of the world, just something to remember for the next game!

#158 3 years ago

You're giving me motivation to start on my EMs.

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#159 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Well, your suspicion is probably correct.
Try loosening the spider a little bit and see if that does anything to help the situation. Not a lot, mind you, but there's a small sweet spot between too loose and too tight.
Otherwise, your clock spring on the back is too tight and the ratchet action can't quite.... make it.
Your operator fix. I would suggest perhaps one of two courses of action. But first, here's the thing to note.
1) Your armature won't wear out any faster that way
2) Your coil sleeve/stop/coil bobbin will be destroyed over time.
There is slack now between the plunger and sleeve, and the bracket. That's bad (TM). Here's the stuff you can do:
1) Forget about it - this is on the thousands and with a good functioning tilt bob/relay (HINT) you'll be just fine. If you take this course of action, you'll want a nut on the back of the screw as well. Just for good measure. Probably a nylock nut. You can also use a longer sleeve, but really the plunger will destroy it regardless, but it would improve the situation.
2) Drill new screw holes, and tap them. This is difficult and requires specialized tools that you might not have.
3) Cut the switches and solder back together. This is easier than it sounds. You can do so with silver solder or otherwise break 'em. Not a great solution either.
4) Only attach one screw to hold the stack in place. (The one further back). Again, use a longer screw, back it with a nylock nut, make it very very tight. Be prepared for switches to come out of adjustment.
Which solution you choose is up to you. Your game and all!
Bell: yes, first of all, that's all from oils from your hands. Does it wipe off easily? If so, leave it alone.
If not, then yes, you're getting some tarnish or rust. You do need to protect it. Wax is an easy thing to add, and should help. Any tarnish will change the sound of the bell (but in this case it is so slight that you'll probably not even notice it). It will likely get worse, as tarnish tends to do. Caused by exposure to the air.

Awesome post, man. BingoPodcast to the rescue, as usual.

#160 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

You're giving me motivation to start on my EMs.

If you lose motivation, you can always pawn them off on me.

gangnam.gif

...and I'll get to it in another decade or two.

#162 3 years ago

YOU DID IT!!! Congrats on your first animated gif.

#163 3 years ago

Some will claim you don't need to do anything after cleaning some steel parts, but I agree with bingo. If you go to town to get a piece all shiny, you may end up taking off the protection layer which is there to prevent rust. I think the problem may be worse the closer to the ocean you are. You are probably around the same distance away as I am - a few miles.

Here is what happened to me. You can see what happened just days after I got this all cleaned and shiny. At the recommendation of others here, I got some Everbrite, repolished it, coated it with the Everbrite, and it has been good since.
lockbar_metal_parts_rust_prevention_sm_(resized).jpg

There are other things you can use that will get the job done, but I am sold on the Everbrite. That was actually 7 months ago and that receiver bar is still just as shiny and rust-free.

http://everbrite.net

The exact one I got was Everbrite ProtectaClear, 4 Oz can. Its not cheap, but worth it to me knowing next time I whack the crap out of something to shine it up I won't look at it a few days later and see it covered with rust

https://www.everbritecoatings.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=22

The people at this Everbrite company are also very responsive and helpful if you have questions.

#164 3 years ago

I wonder if Harbor Freight has sonic screwdrivers?

#165 3 years ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

Here is what happened to me. I got some Everbrite...

SOLD!!! I've made a note on my calendar to purchase it in a couple days (just got some fraudulent charges on my credit card today [on my birthday!] and had to cancel it...new one on its way, though).

Great recommendation. Thank you! ...and I love the visual comparisons!!!

Quoted from girloveswaffles:

I wonder if Harbor Freight has sonic screwdrivers?

Bzzt!

Thankfully I work on these machines unplugged. Ha-ha!

#166 3 years ago

Please pardon this brief...

intermission.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As you may know, I've illustrated a number of pinball-related art pieces for various pinball companies, events, podcasts, and websites:

http://www.ElephantEater.com/10761

I will be attending the York Show for my first time this year and I'm pretty darned excited about it! I mention all this for a couple reasons:

1) I'd love to meet any of the Hay-Ride Resto-Thread Family in person. Maybe we can hop on an EM or two!

2) Last year, my buddy, bingopodcast organized a bunch 'o bingo pinball machines brought by a host of collectors to the show last year for the first "Bingo Row." It was the largest public showing of bingo pinball machines since they were produced in the United States over 30 years ago. Documentation here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bingo-row-at-york-2015

This year, he's doing it all over again and...

BingoRow.jpg

...I get to be a small part of it! BingoPodcast tapped me to create a custom illustration in celebration of "Bingo Row" this year. Not to mention we're printing T-shirts to commemorate the occasion!

BingoRowMock.jpg

These will be rewards, given away by BingoPodcast, for achieving a 4 or 5-in-a-line hit! So good luck mastering the Bingos and snagging one of these extremely limited shirts!

However, if you'd rather not take a chance on your bingo-ing skills (or whether or not he'll have your size) you can order your shirt in advance of the show directly from BingoPodcast:

http://foramusementonly.libsyn.com/bingo-row-t-shirts-for-the-2016-york-show

We're running a pre-order until Sept. 7th, 2016. After that time, you'll be subject to your own bingo prowess and BingoPodcast's t-shirt availability.

Looking forward to meeting folks at York!

Sincerely,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled restoration.

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#167 3 years ago

Alright, back to repairs.

So, you remember when I said,

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

After I reassembled the match unit coil and tested it, it seemed to work...meehhh...pretty well. It would actuate and spring back into place about 2/3 of the time, but then it seems to get sluggish in portions of its cycle.

Well, I tried...

Quoted from bingopodcast:

...loosening the spider a little bit...

...which helped. Yesterday when I tried that it seemed to get caught up less. It got sluggish about 3 times in the 150 pulls I tried. Meh... Good enough? I dunno. So I tried again when I went down there today. I must have actuated it a couple hundred times at least. Zero hang-ups. WOO! Maybe it was just tried of sitting.

rdjshrugs.gif

After seeing xsvtoys' results with...

Quoted from xsvtoys:

...some Everbrite...

...I'm convinced:

IMG_5298_(resized).jpg

Then I did some more things. Since the backbox is basically done (note to self, clean the jones plugs), I moved to the cab. First of all, I needed to get rid of all thsoe unsightly, mold-gathering, pieces of...foam?

IMG_5301_(resized).jpg

So I unscrewed the bottom board...

IMG_5305.jpg

...and got rid of those filthy things. While I was down there I spotted this abomination:

IMG_5299_(resized).jpg

Gaze upon it!

IMG_5302_(resized).jpg

I hate to call out hacky stuff like this because I'm pretty certain the seller and his dad are reading this (and they're both stand-up guys), but c'mon...tin foil and jumpering past the fuses?

arnold.gif

Anyway, lets fix that. I ordered a replacement fuse holder, unsoldered the old fuse holder and replaced it with the new:

IMG_5323.jpg

Since the bottom board was already unscrewed, I pulled that out of the cabinet...

IMG_5325.jpg

...which made this whole fuse-holder replacement a lot easier. Anyhow, now it's screwed back to the bottom board and awaiting some new fuses. I might place an order for tin-foil while I'm at it.

IMG_5332.jpg

#168 3 years ago

I burst out laughing at this and Ahnold gif. Good Stuff.

Was the foam original or somebody trying to get rid of some vibration?

#169 3 years ago

hooooooooooooooleeeeeeeee crap - those fuse hacks!!! Talk about asking for trouble!

#170 3 years ago

This can often be an indicator of another problem like a short or something that was blowing the correct fuse. (Welcome back!)

Shawn

#171 3 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

This can often be an indicator of another problem like a short or something that was blowing the correct fuse.

Agreed. As you can see from the pic above, the fuse holder started to fall apart with fuses being pulled and replaced.

Hopefully, it's something like a partially shorted coil vs. a shorted socket. But it may be both!!!

Luckily, you've fixed the holders now, so you won't chase your tail trying to figure out if the fuses are good...

#172 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Was the foam original or somebody trying to get rid of some vibration?

gshrugs2.gif

Quoted from xsvtoys:

hooooooooooooooleeeeeeeee crap

exactly.gif

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

This can often be an indicator of another problem

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...that blackened coil in the Match Unit.

I'll be sure to keep an eye/ear on that (and everywhere else) when I get around to firing-up the machine.

---------------------

So I did a bit of spring (summer?) cleaning while I had the bottom board out. In addition to the pieces of foam...

IMG_5311.jpg

...there was a LOT of detritus floating around under that board. Just a small sample.

IMG_5307.jpg

So I tried separating it a bit.

IMG_5309.jpg

Found an entire box of fuses. Maybe some bakelite I can salvage there to fix a switch stack if need be. Oh, hey, there's that missing fuse! ...what's left of it.

(Looks like BingoPodcast got a hold of it.)

spark.gif

Here's another separated stack of cabinet goodies:

IMG_5313.jpg

There's the proverbial buyer's discount. Now I can say I got this beauty for $149.80. And what do we have here:

IMG_5317.jpg

Why it's the...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...coil stop from back on the thousands reel...

...!!!

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You can even see the little divot on the back...

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...that fit into the stopless bracket from many moons ago:

IMG_3563.jpg

Mystery solved.

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Then some other mystery items. Anyone know what these are?

IMG_5320.jpg

...or what this is:

IMG_5315.jpg

Clock number?

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(Does that mean it was the 61st Hay Ride off the line? ...or that inspector 61 took a look at it?)

Oh, and hey, Seller's dad (still doin' my best not to publicly list names), I think I found that screwdriver you've been looking for!

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Finally, I gave the bottom of the cab a little wipey-poo.

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And that concludes our post about cabinet trash.

#173 3 years ago

The "61" probably is an employee number (that's why it's on the "Clock" line)

#174 3 years ago

For is right - inspector/employee 61.

Thing on the left is a terminal strip. Usually used to hold power cord (incoming) with power cord (to transformer).

Thing on the right is hard to tell from a pic.

Yes, missing/jumpered fuses could have caused match burning. Of course a shorted match coil that burned could also be the cause of fuses blowing, which might have caused the jumpers eventually when the fuse clips started to fail....

Chicken and egg. Once you look under the playfield and at the various trip relays and so forth things might become more clear...

#175 3 years ago

I think that tag is usually stapled to the bottom of the playfield. I have similar tags on my games.

1 month later
#176 3 years ago

Meant to edit, not post. Woopsies.

#177 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Meant to edit, not post. Woopsies.

Aw. Was hoping for an update.

#178 3 years ago

Pardon the tease, Gir. I was actually re-reading this thread to get my head back in the "Hay-Ride" game, as it's been a while. Here's a bit of an explanation for anyone not following my Swinger thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-swinger-restoration-and-eventual-retheme/page/14#post-3327876

I actually did some Hay-Ride work this evening, but it's getting pretty late for a post here. SOON!!! Pictures are archived and ready to go.

Mighty-night,
Ryan

#179 3 years ago

The bottom board has been waiting patiently here for the past couple months:

IMG_6891 (resized).jpg

I'm no longer...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...awaiting some new fuses...

...they are fully installed, without...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...tin foil and jumper[s]...

IMG_6874 (resized).jpg

I looked around the bottom board to see if there were any stepper units to be cleaned. Didn't notice any. But I did find some weird bits:

1) Broken Female Jones Plug:

IMG_6875 (resized).jpg

...on that plug second from the right.

Here's a better look at it with the male plug removed:

IMG_6877 (resized).jpg

It started out as just kinda loose, but upon a bit of prodding, completely broke off:

IMG_6878 (resized).jpg

QUESTION FOR THE GROUP: Are these able to be fixed? Do I need to replace the whole unit? As you all know, I'm open to being educated. In the meantime, I just switched the male plug to the other side. Not sure what feature this changes yet, but at least the other side works for the time being.

2) (Another) Broken Female Jones Plug:

IMG_6886 (resized).jpg

(Same questions apply.)

3)This...uhm...fuzzy component:

IMG_6881 (resized).jpg

I don't know what this thing is, or what it should look like ordinarily. All I know is that I've never seen a component with this...unique texture...before. Replace?

4) Some clipped wires(!??!):

IMG_6880 (resized).jpg

That green one on the right and a couple of cloth-wrapped ones on the left (above).

5) MOAR clipped wires(!??!):

IMG_6882 (resized).jpg

Brown (left) and Blue (right) on the photo above are both not cloth-wrapped. I traced the blue one up to this female jones plug on the front of the bottom board:

IMG_6884 (resized).jpg

...and traced the brown one back to one of the male jones plugs at the back of the bottom board:

IMG_6883 (resized).jpg

Not sure what I need to do about these. Suggestions?

6) Replacement Power Chord added to my next parts order:

IMG_6887b (resized).jpg

7) After doing my Swinger bottom board cleaning, I feel like I should clean this one too...

IMG_6885 (resized).jpg

...but I probably won't.

Anyhow, after getting the cabinet looking pretty clean...

IMG_6888 (resized).jpg

...I tossed the bottom board back in its rightful place:

IMG_6892b (resized).jpg

...so that I could start removing stuff from the playfield. Here's what it looked like originally:

IMG_9724 (resized).jpg

...and I managed to remove the bottom half of the posts and plastics:

IMG_6896 (resized).jpg

...before growing weary and calling it a night. Anyhow, it felt good to get reacquainted with this project. Here's hoping for some more timely updates in the near future.

#180 3 years ago

Great to finally see an update here. It's looking quite... um... used? No idea what your funky components are there. Good call on the power cord. And good luck with all your loose ends. I am certain they are either very important or completely useless!

#181 3 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Great to finally see an update here.

Thanks, Mk! It's great to finally be back at it.

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

And good luck with all your loose ends. I am certain they are either very important or completely useless!

LOL ...a fount of knowledge. Thanks?

#182 3 years ago

Broken jones plugs. Unfortunately, it is difficult to replace a single broken tab. The issue is that you have to re-rivet, replace with a good one that you fabricate, then re-rivet.

Probably easier to find a new (used) four position female jones plug. I'll check my parts cache. You have to move over wires - one piece at a time.

Remember that female jones plugs will all break if you flex them. The metal is thin and will fatigue and break. Be careful.

The splayed out one can still conduct in that funky position, but you can test this. Issue is that with vibration,it may not.

Regardless - fixable.

#183 3 years ago

Now let's talk hacked wires.

Someone put in an EMI filter (aftermarket).

To do this, they cut the original wiring, and spliced in new plastic coated wires.

Remember that plastic coated wires conduct at 110V and do have potential to kill you. Work on it with the game off and unplugged.

The filter is not needed. It can be removed.

The power cord should be replaced.

The green wire tucked in is a ground wire and not used or needed.

The other cut wires may no longer be needed. Note that the blue wires on the jones plug are doubled on the same position. Worry about that later... When something doesn't work. The wires are not bare and not particularly dangerous. You can cap them or cover with electrical tape if you would like.

#184 3 years ago

Finished stripping most of the playfield, with a little help:

IMG_6904 (resized).jpg

Found some more weirdness underneath all of the top roll-over guides:

IMG_6906 (resized).jpg

...my gosh, this pin. What a life. Anyhow, I guess this twisted wire was jammed in there to shore-up a loose socket?

IMG_6907 (resized).jpg

I'll have to remember to look at that when things are closer to the finish line.

More help with sorting:

IMG_6909 (resized).jpg

Now the playfield looks like this:

IMG_6918 (resized).jpg

And this:

IMG_6919 (resized).jpg

#185 3 years ago

Keep on keeping on! Just think - if you give up, it will become Star-Jet food.

By the way, replace the broken female jones plugs with Gottlieb ones. Bally ones are godawful, while Gottlieb and Williams (in that order) ones provide much better contact and reliability. You can probably find them pretty easily on eBay as they do not need to be era specific and they're "one size fits all" in terms of pin size and spacing (and you don't need to touch/replace the male connector, besides to plug it back in, of course!), you'll need need to find one with the amount of holes you need. You could probably cut one or just deal with the leftover if it's a little bigger and still fits fine, just leave the extra non-connected. Obviously not the preferred route, though.

#186 3 years ago

In contrast, I don't find the Bally ones to be particularly terrible. But maybe that's because I deal with them so frequently? Regardless, it doesn't matter the manufacturer's jones plugs used. On most Bally games, the male side is actually the problem. It will curl. I don't know of they used fewer layers to shore them up, but they seem particularly susceptible to heat warpage.

Again, doesn't matter. You can replace with any four prong female jones plug and it'll work.

Also, that is either the match feature or a pricing plug. Is there a manual for this game? Probably not (too early with too many flippers) so your plug will be shown on the schematic.

Smallest I have is a six position female. It'll work, but do you want to look for a four position? Up to you.

#187 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

In contrast, I don't find the Bally ones to be particularly terrible. But maybe that's because I deal with them so frequently? Regardless, it doesn't matter the manufacturer's jones plugs used. On most Bally games, the male side is actually the problem. It will curl. I don't know of they used fewer layers to shore them up, but they seem particularly susceptible to heat warpage.
Again, doesn't matter. You can replace with any four prong female jones plug and it'll work.
Also, that is either the match feature or a pricing plug. Is there a manual for this game? Probably not (too early with too many flippers) so your plug will be shown on the schematic.
Smallest I have is a six position female. It'll work, but do you want to look for a four position? Up to you.

I've only heard stories (I'm not a Bally guy and I didn't choose that but apparently my tastes did, check out my collection page... I didn't try to avoid Bally games...) and if you look at them (the female jones plugs, not the machines themselves, oh god the argument that could have caused with others) in comparison you can remotely see how they're worse in design that something like the Gottlieb ones. Of course they all do the same thing and work great and are great when perfectly clean and new from the factory, that is not the problem, but when things start to get a little mucky and dirty, the extra connection areas the Gottlieb/Williams plugs provide start to be a big help that shows.

So, if somebody were to say "Check out my Bally machine!", I wouldn't advise them to change out the jones plugs if the machine is working fine like it was some kind of emergency comparable to leaky batteries in solid-state machines, but in the situation here where you are going to have to replace an equally-as-hard-to-find part ANYWAYSSSSSS, I would definitely suggest it. (So you don't have to do it twice)

((You, meaning, Ryan))

Normally I would even suggest it if somebody was troubleshooting a Bally EM and had connection issues to where they MAY have to replace them that they should consider giving it a go, but in this case, on top of that Ryan has no choice but to replace them anyways. So, it's a "might as well" situation. But either way, yes, Bally plugs will "work" if they are still in the proper condition to do so.

Maybe it's a bingo thing. I wouldn't want to unplug and move things that huge much either!

#188 3 years ago

I could sit and look at that playfield all day.

#189 3 years ago

The fuzzy component is a wire-wound sand resistor. More than that, I know not. (Google for info?)

#190 3 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Gottlieb ones

Thanks for the discussion, guys! (And for keeping it civil.)

Quoted from oldtowner:

The fuzzy component is a wire-wound sand resistor.

Ah! Something to look up! Thank you, oldtowner.

Quoted from dmbjunky:

I could sit and look at that playfield all day.

preach.gif

#191 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

And for keeping it civil.

Of course. Good thing I like ya Nick... usually I beat people up over female jones plug discussions.

/sarcasm

It's funny, everybody has their opinions truly down to the littlest thing in this hobby. As long as you find nice replacements I'm sure either way you'll make out alright.

#192 3 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

usually I beat people up over female jones plug discussions.

Me too. Those Bally ones are sharp!

In all seriousness, let me try to describe the difference between the two - again, very little practical difference.

Gottlieb:
Older female plugs are rectangular and resist breaking and squishing. You would likely have to stomp on them to bend the plug closed (I haven't seen the stomp, but I've fixed ones that were squished). There is very little practical way to repair the Gottlieb female plugs.

Self-cleaning action: As the male pin is inserted into the female plug, the two outer sides scrape at the male pin. Unless someone yanked the male plug out sideways. There's usually at least one good surface left to hug even if they are abused.

Weakness: Pliers.

Cleaning: difficult - you have to squeeze something abrasive inside of it.

Bally:
Metal 'feels' thinner.
Hole in the top to insert the male pin, large sheet of metal that bends back in to touch the male pin.
Two tines on the inside that apply more pressure.
Plug will still make contact if the outer metal is broken off.

Self-cleaning action: two metal tines scrape the male pin as it is inserted/removed.

Weakness: metal fatigue by bending the outer edge. If you put a towel down in the bottom of the cab while soldering, be extremely careful when removing as it can catch and break off the edges. Also: heat is the enemy, probably moisture too. As I mentioned earlier, they feel less strong than their Gottlieb counterparts.

Cleaning: Hand-held wire brush or GSB pad. Simple to clean by comparison and easy to keep shiny.

Williams:
IIRC they used the same supplier as Gottlieb - maybe it's just that they are always dirtier on the games I work on, but something about the male plugs feels slightly different. The female side is similar to Gottlieb, though. I seem to always work on games where the female side has bent away from the male pin, tho, and have to squeeze with pliers to get back to proper shape. Most other folks don't seem to run into this frequently. Must just be a VA thing...

Exhibit:
Similar to Williams/Gottlieb

My personal favorite currently, though, is United - their dual-inline package is really slick:
Flat package - each 'pin' of the Jones Plug male side is on one side of the flat package.
Female side is a single channel with receiving pins - as tight as it can possibly be for the best possible connection. No adjustments or tweaking or anything to break or damage...

Weakness: Not much that I've found. United also tried to keep the plugs different sizes (physically) to prevent mis-plugging. I am not sure if they did this style of plug for their whole run, the only game I have is a 1955... but I would hope they did. They are that good.

Anyway, for those that are not familiar with Jones Plug variations, the above is a little primer. Different manufacturers did different stuff over the years.

Bally (from my understanding) wanted to make their own parts, so as not to be beholden to outside manufacturers (clever, probably a lot cheaper in the long run, and would allow for production numbers to be more easily concealed...), and to allow for different designs for things like lamp sockets to make them flat pack instead of protruding sockets - allowing for more lamps in a smaller area. This is of course, good and bad. Good for the reasons above, bad for any other you can think of. The flat sockets use a small tine to poke the nipple of the bulb and actually gouge it. The outer area tends to separate... leading to poor connections and flaky bulbs.

My guess is that everyone else got their female plugs from the same supplier. I suspect that Williams used a different supplier than Gottlieb for the male plugs. I have no real clue, though.

Anyway, hope that clears some things up and you don't just have two people talking up different manufacturers based on their personal experience.

Lastly, don't step on any jones plugs. I think they will all actually break in a similar way.

#193 3 years ago
Quoted from oldtowner:

The fuzzy component is a wire-wound sand resistor. More than that, I know not. (Google for info?)

Yes, I missed that question - it's a sand resistor, and you can easily test it for the rated value (printed on the outside)! I've only ever had to replace one in my short career in pinball repair.

And that one was physically broken in half.

(They are pretty darn reliable).

#194 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

it's a sand resistor

Huh! Sooo...it's supposed to look like that? Wacky.

Quoted from bingopodcast:

Me too. Those Bally ones are sharp!
In all seriousness, let me try to describe the difference between the two - again, very little practical difference.
Gottlieb:
Older female plugs are rectangular and resist breaking and squishing. You would likely have to stomp on them to bend the plug closed (I haven't seen the stomp, but I've fixed ones that were squished). There is very little practical way to repair the Gottlieb female plugs.
Self-cleaning action: As the male pin is inserted into the female plug, the two outer sides scrape at the male pin. Unless someone yanked the male plug out sideways. There's usually at least one good surface left to hug even if they are abused.
Weakness: Pliers.
Bally:
Metal 'feels' thinner.
Hole in the top to insert the male pin, large sheet of metal that bends back in to touch the male pin.
Two tines on the inside that apply more pressure.
Plug will still make contact if the outer metal is broken off.
Self-cleaning action: two metal tines scrape the male pin as it is inserted/removed.
Weakness: metal fatigue by bending the outer edge. If you put a towel down in the bottom of the cab while soldering, be extremely careful when removing as it can catch and break off the edges. Also: heat is the enemy, probably moisture too. As I mentioned earlier, they feel less strong than their Gottlieb counterparts.
Williams:
IIRC they used the same supplier as Gottlieb - maybe it's just that they are always dirtier on the games I work on, but something about the male plugs feels slightly different. The female side is similar to Gottlieb, though. I seem to always work on games where the female side has bent away from the male pin, tho, and have to squeeze with pliers to get back to proper shape. Most other folks don't seem to run into this frequently. Must just be a VA thing...
Exhibit:
Similar to Williams/Gottlieb
My personal favorite currently, though, is United - their dual-inline package is really slick:
Flat package - each 'pin' of the Jones Plug male side is on one side of the flat package.
Female side is a single channel with receiving pins - as tight as it can possibly be for the best possible connection. No adjustments or tweaking or anything to break or damage...
Weakness: Not much that I've found. United also tried to keep the plugs different sizes (physically) to prevent mis-plugging. I am not sure if they did this style of plug for their whole run, the only game I have is a 1955... but I would hope they did. They are that good.
Anyway, for those that are not familiar with Jones Plug variations, the above is a little primer. Different manufacturers did different stuff over the years.
Bally (from my understanding) wanted to make their own parts, so as not to be beholden to outside manufacturers (clever, probably a lot cheaper in the long run, and would allow for production numbers to be more easily concealed...), and to allow for different designs for things like lamp sockets to make them flat pack instead of protruding sockets - allowing for more lamps in a smaller area. This is of course, good and bad. Good for the reasons above, bad for any other you can think of. The flat sockets use a small tine to poke the nipple of the bulb and actually gouge it. The outer area tends to separate... leading to poor connections and flaky bulbs.
My guess is that everyone else got their female plugs from the same supplier. I suspect that Williams used a different supplier than Gottlieb for the male plugs. I have no real clue, though.
Anyway, hope that clears some things up and you don't just have two people talking up different manufacturers based on their personal experience.
Lastly, don't step on any jones plugs. I think they will all actually break in a similar way.

Awesome write-up, my man. Thanks a bunch!

#195 3 years ago

Ryan,

To speed things up, why not pay the boy to finish the work on this one (he seems to be getting along fine), and get back to your Swinger re-theme?

#196 3 years ago

Glad to see ole Hay-Ride is getting some attention again.

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

1) Broken Female Jones Plug:

Clay's take:

"The only way to repair a broken female Bally connector is to replace it. Since these connectors are not available new, an old Gottlieb or Williams parts game can be used as a donor, and the female Bally part replaced."

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...my gosh, this pin. What a life. Anyhow, I guess this twisted wire was jammed in there to shore-up a loose socket?

Those sockets are most likely bad. The sleeved wire was probably put in there to keep contact with the ground wire. Yeah, I'd call that a hack!

Clay again: "Because there are so many different types of lamp sockets, I personally try and repair them opposed to replacing them. Also the price of lamp sockets has gone up dramatically in the last few years (what was 20 cents is now approaching $1 each.) Again I find repairing a socket is easier, faster, and cheaper than replacing them."

With such an old game it would be nice if you can save the original lamp sockets.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#connect

If you want to replace them, be careful! There are lots of sockets for sale and you need to be vigilant that you get the right one.

#197 3 years ago

Slow and steady:

image (resized).jpg

Zoop! No pops.

image (resized).jpg

Zoop! No mushrooms.

image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg

Zzzz.

#198 3 years ago

I cannot believe how good that play field looks. That thing will look amazing when it is all cleaned up! Steady progress... Steady progress...

#199 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Slow and steady:

Zoop! No pops.

Zoop! No mushrooms.

Zzzz.

Fun thread. Great looking game. Pinside needs more threads like this one.

#200 3 years ago

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

Also, Happy 200th post. First person to reply here will get something from me...art-wise.

Thanks for making this thread so enjoyable for me.

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