It's my wife's favorite out of all our games. I think it's unique and different.

Things they messed up on
1- cheapened playfield wood - Dimpled like crazy - my wife mentioned it to me after 40 plays and she doesn't notice that kind of stuff ever like we all do.
2- Bright white blinding led's - I had to put colored cellophane in front of them as I couldn't see the ball.
3- Bought airball protector that broke - so invested in Swinks target bracket ( work like a Charm ) to prevent airballs
4- Had to buy plastics so ball wouldn't jump from inlane to outlane, which takes it a little more time to clean and wax that area.
5- autolaunch balls hit the top bracket
6- Cabinet splitting as they cheapened the brackets
7 -Can't adjust shaker motor in settings (minor)
8- Cheap imitation Cliffy's - my left one broke inside already.
9- They shouldn't have rushed this out the Door with DMD, they should have waited and had a LCD with movie video clips as that would have made this game one of the best games.

Not much because JJP games are too pricey and wouldn't gain many customers anyway and the other companies dont make very good games anyways and even if they did they cant get games out the door anyway. Lyman isnt going anywhere i am sure.

Is Lyman that amazing, or does he just work that much harder than everyone else in Stern's coding department?

Don't get me wrong, Lyman has lots of great ideas and understands the game from a competitive standpoint better than most. But compared to Dwight it mostly seems like Lyman's code is better because he puts that much more time into it even if he isn't being paid for it. Stern finally seems to be hiring a lot more coders, and the Iron Maiden team did an excellent job for first efforts. Maybe it's as simple as an issue of resource allocation at Stern and Dwight was overloaded.

That said, someone else should hire Lyman because he is a workhorse of a coder. It's gotten to the point where his name sells a game as much as the playfield designers name (for pinheads at least, the general consumer doesn't care). Although a few games with Lyman's name attached are stinkers...

I'll go along with # 7 ...Can't adjust shaker motor in settings (minor)
only I think of it as major

Yeah delays are always well-received around here, and also good for a company's bottom line when that company depends on keeping the production line moving. I guess they were just supposed to stop making and selling games for a year so they could retrofit and code all upcoming games for LCD?

If pinside ran Stern they'd be bankrupt in a month.

Yeah they are all bums and slackers, obviously. Great question.

Yep. Cost reduction in plain view. Since Stern seems to use more than one PF supplier, whether you get kinda okay or soft and crater-y is pot luck, usually from game to game, but sometimes within the same run.

You can turn down the inserts and flasher brightness in the system settings. I do it with every new stern immediately. I also have gradient color brackets for the mode inserts and the GHOST insert that cuts down on glare. They're in the pinmonk store:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk

These are the BEST. Highly recommended.

I made a guide here on Pinside on how to upgrade to the Bally/Williams brackets on the newer sterns to prevent splitting:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reinforcing-stern-cabinet-legs-step-by-step

You can adjust strength a little, just not where it happens.

Everyone is ripping off Cliff in pinball manufacture, but no one is doing it right. He's still the best.

He's the best in the business and he takes pride in his work. He knows what it takes to make games fun.

It's also a huge assumption that Stern is capable of throwing together a good looking LCD package in short notice when most of the LCD games look acceptable at best. Batman 66 looks great, but it's mostly video clips surrounded by Franchi art framing the clips. Beatles looks good, but it's not aspiring to much. Iron Maiden graphics are passable for the most part. Star Wars and GOTG look bad. I haven't spent much time with AS, but it seems fine.

Plus who knows how much more that would have made the license.

Yeah don't get me wrong, he's an amazing employee and most companies would love that sort of enthusiasm at work. I hope Stern compensates him very well because he alone redeemed Batman 66.

Thanks for cutting out the part where I praised the Iron Maiden team. Sorry for making my messages too long for you to read through?

It's almost as if coding for and LCD package - really a pretty unimportant part of the game for a player - is much more difficult and time consuming than coding for DMDs.

I really think we'd all have been better off if they had just stuck with a color DMD template but we all know people here would never stand for it.

And yet they hate that it takes so long to code and produce games...

It's ok, I caught the part where you insulted the entire software staff at Stern with a dumb rhetorical question that makes no sense, and then suggested "someone else" hire Lyman as if he's not happy with his current job, isn't being properly compensated, and is dumb to stay.

Really great stuff!

Stern just needs a better work pipeline. They handled the DMD to LCD transition poorly because the underestimated the substantial increase in the work.

And the display is actually extremely important part of the game. That's what draws the attention, that's where you immerse the player (if you wanna cheap out on toys), that's where you tell people what to do, that's where people who aren't playing will watch. Yeah yeah yeah, you play looking down at the playfield. But to say the display is unimportant is to ignore decades of people loving the rewarding animations when you accomplish goals in all the classic DMD games. A pinball machine is a sum of all the parts and the display is a critical aspect.

All I said was he was the hardest worker, that does not imply that the rest are lazy or any of that other nonsense.

I never said he wasn't happy, wasn't properly compensated, dumb, etc. All I did was point out he is a valuable resource and any sane businessman should try to poach him. You find the best people and figure if you can get them on your staff.

Like how you think I'm insulting the man when I'm praising him as an employee is mind boggling.

Yeah the hobby has been overrun by Theme Guys who would scoff at a laptop-sized 720p TV in their living room but somehow it's a critical part of a game that did fine without it for 50+ years.

I don't even need a color DMD. Give me old school amber, or screw it, just a numeric display. I'm never looking up there anyway.

The difference of Lyman’s idea of polished code
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And other people’s idea of polished code
19931331-49C0-4038-B996-E6268CE7DDB5.gif

Shows in just about every modern pin.

That said; there does seem to be some improvements and hope on the horizon; i.e. IMDN.

So much of the design work was done on Maiden before Stern took it in, you can't really count that. It's one reason why it's so refreshingly different that other Sterns.

Fair enough just letting you know how it read to me, and how it could be read by the guys you are talking about.

Great feedback Vireland - have a great weekend!

I've never understood this logic that Maiden doesn't count as a Stern game, or doesn't count as Stern showing improvement. They went out and hired the best best player of all time because he designed an awesome game! Do you think his next one is going to suck because it's done completely in-house?

Lyman is definitely one of the best. Personally though I think no one can match Keith Johnson when it comes to creating deep / unique objective based rulesets and telling a themes story through code. Ted Estes is another great programmer, the work he did for Dialed In code is brilliant.

The playfield was done, but what was the coding like? I've only seen so much of "Archer" and it seemed very different and not very fleshed out. But I don't know. Maybe Elwin had it all scribbled down in a journal and was ready to tell a coder exactly what he wanted.

Yes, he's that amazing. It's not about "working harder"...he's a master of his craft...he's more than a "coder"...he's a Pinball Rules Designer. It's a talent that requires an intellect & instinct that very few possess and are able to implement as programmers. It's more than 1's and 0's + time = game. He's an artist, simply put. Anyone can pick up a paint brush...very few can create art with it.

If they're reading pinside, they have thick enough skins from years of abuse from the regulars to deal with me saying that Lyman looks like the hardest worker from the perspective of an outsider.

That's a great way to put it. When it comes to that level I would put Lyman, Keith and Ted all in the same group. It's not just about creating a ruleset to those guys but also telling a story through code that leads the player through the theme, creating a variety of unique modes, and coming up with ways that keeps players coming back again and again.

Problem here is that Munsters just came out and people wants it to be perfect , it takes time , look at Twd Gotg and Deadpool with code 0.99 , i wanted a Dp and i am just about to pull the Trigger on a Pro , 8 months after announcement and a few great software update . I feel it's where I want it to be .

Dwight made clear that the game is where he wants it to be i bet that's where some deep software lover flipped out .

At Prices way pay : We want more

Whatever the coding was when Stern got it, the point I'm trying to make is the game design was already almost completely done which is a huge part of the creation process. It left them more time to work on punching up the code once it was Sterns, and because the design was done outside Stern for the most part, it is substantially different from all other modern Sterns. I just wish Stern hadn't killed the subways and vari-target.

There is always a new kid in town, the Eagles so eloquently said...

I totally agree about the vari-target.

The layout is great and I'm sure Elwin did a lot of whitewoods to get it to the point where Stern was interested in buying it. But then Stern still had to redesign it for Spike, they made new toys for the premium version, and then had to get it ready to be mass produced. (And of course other teams were doing all the art, sounds, and programing). Having the core playfield layout done was definitely a substantial jumpstart on the project, but that's just one aspect of many in getting the game to the line in a polished state.

Yes couldn’t wait for this game .On my had to have list . Played it at JAX Retro event and I was glad I didn’t do an impulse buy. Played MB next to it and still seems the better pin.

It was size adjusted too. The Archer prototype was a few inches longer than a stern playfield, everything had to be repositioned and tweaked.

Well, the game was already designed and built for the most part. You can argue all Stern did was buy and re-theme it. It's still a Stern game but you have to admit it stands out as a different style of game from the rest of the Spike lineup.

Yes, he is. Just look at his resume.

https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=lyman&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

It stands out because it was from a first time designer and not from one of the half dozen guys that has designed every Stern game for the last few decades.

I loved the game! This thread taught me that I hate the game!
But I haven't even played the game.

Stern has spoiled me. Their games are incredibly fun. I picked up STLE and MBrLE at the same time and can't pull myself away from STLE. I've owned IMDNLE and BM66, which made my MM and TZ gently weep. DILE wasn't so fun, so I sold it, but I hope Wonka is great. Not all Stern games will be amazing, which is the same for Williams/Bally, JJP, Spooky, etc.

He has a few duds like Batman:TDK, but that's mostly due to the layout he was handed. Most of the other duds on his resume he just helped with and wasn't the lead. Generally speaking if Lyman is the lead on a pin, that software will eventually rock. No other programmer at Stern can say that. Keith WAS at Stern and had that kind of dedication, but he's at JJP now, and it shows with the stellar code they're cranking out.

I think hobby1 misspelt Monster Bash in the title. owned it twice.

This just illustrates how one man's dud is another man's treasure...like Munsters perhaps?
Oh, my bad, The Dark Knight. Yes, good point...

I think this is now very true. And I’d go a step further and say his name is a bigger draw than the designers on his games.

I know there are a number of early Batman 66 adopters that were only willing to take a risk on an LE because Lyman was on the project and he made that bet worth it. I’m on the sidelines with Munsters after canceling my LE and probably won’t decide on it until I see Elvira 3 and the “Lyman factor’ is now the primary reason why (unless thee is a remarkable change in Munsters code).

Whether Lyman is on a game these days is certainly a difference maker when it comes to early sales (if not overall sales) of a new Stern title.

Yes, a friend is waiting to see what Stern has this year. He's going to either buy Brian Eddy's game because he loves his other games, or he'll buy a Lyman coded game because he knows it'll (eventually) keep him entertained the longest. He probably wouldn't show up to work for a month if Lyman coded Eddy's next game.

Supposedly Lyman's on Elvira 3, but who knows for sure?

I think it's too early to say if it's good or bad.

Look at SM, AcDc, Tron, Metallica, ST.these games have been there done that. While pins like Avengers, Transformers, Avatar, XM the same timeframe and we see which are the hits and which are the misses.

Munsters has been out for a minute, I don't think it's very good but heck I didn't think TWD was that great either but now I love it.

I can not say for certain that Munsters is destined to be middle type pin (B/C grade) but there is only so much room at the A/A+ grade pins (not every pin can be above average) and we all know that 10-12 B/W will never move out of the top 15 (MB, MM, TAF, TZ, AFM, IJ, etc.) same with Stern probably there is a big 5 already (LotR, Metallica etc.) so there will be a bit of judgment what will constitute A/A+ game. If Munsters settles down by RBION, Avatar, whatever in the middle of the pack that doesn't mean it's a bad pin. I think that it will be somewhat medium not the best not the worst.

Lyman and Keith both are true artists

Lyman has a knack for making every shot on the PF count in multiple ways

TWD is a masterpiece

I don’t get going back to old school dmds

Yes I’m a theme guy and the LCD matters to me. Those clips from BM66 and Munsters put a smile on my face!

Brings you into the theme!

If TWD only had an LCD how great would those clips be. I do love my color Dmd on that game

Funny that you mention that. Modern Stern has been around for 20 years and hasn't been able to knock 6 years of B/W titles (92-98) off the leader board, despite all the "new tech", more complicated "coding", video screens or whatever. 90's B/W looks like it was, is, and always will be king. And Stern has made some damn fine games. It's just that the batting average is below the Mendoza line.

Good news, some early concept art leaked out of the Stern factory.

LE comes with extra long monotarget.

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Right up there with Mitch’s rating of 3.6 on GB - which you say is a great game !

Nice!

And you GB of 3.6? Too funny!

Maybe I should start a new thread....”JJP POTC.....my biggest let down of the ????”

Wait - I wouldn’t be that big of a ????, because I am humble enough to know every pin is not for me!

JJP POTC is almost as good as your rating of Houdini - 2.5. Houdini must really, really suck?? LOL. And I think someone sells a ton of Mods for this game - sound familiar?