Munsters (Limited Edition)
Stern, 2019
Munsters (Premium)
Stern, 2019
Munsters (Pro)
Stern, 2019You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider iceman44.
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Quoted from crlush:I played 2 games on it at Ohio show also and walked away scratching my head, I really wanted to like it, wanted it to be my first NIB pin. I have to give it to them, the premium in my opinion is beautiful.
That is F ing laughable.
Quoted from thundergod76:Exactly what everyone was saying about BM66. Now it's one of Stern's hottest titles. Give it some time.
Exactly what everyone was saying about “the walking Dud” too
Obviously Lyman coded both those games but still.....patience
There is absolutely ZERO reason to say “I’d rather have shallow code versus deep code”
NONE. Deep doesn’t necessarily mean complex rules.
How about a game that incorporates all the assets and shots creatively.
Lyman is the best and it’s not close.
If you have deep code it potentially satisfies everyone
Even the basic stiff who will never see it all can have mini wizards and objectives to go for
And the good players have something to play for a LONG time
Quoted from Hobbypinball:No expert but game rules and depth should be an option of the machine just like flipper strength. Zero reason a game can’t have more than one rule set to cater to different range of players. I mean yes it’s cost but.
Other option would be stock rules but also a “maker” mode. Let the community design the rules. The best would quickly float to the top.
Great idea. People might be ok with crap code and say BS like "well it so cohesive and kicks your ass so shallow doesn't matter like IM".
You buy a game today for the $$$ that you pay, DEEP F ING CODE ought to be mandatory on the checklist.
That satisfies EVERYBODY
And if the companies won't do it let the community do it
Quoted from Who-Dey:If there was no Stern and the only players were JJP, Spooky, and Deeproot this hobby would f*cking SUCK!! Stern is making killer games right now and has been for years. All Pinheads should be extremely thankful for Stern Pinball, i know i am.
Munsters is a great game! Code is fine as is and will get better
Can’t even put Deeproot in that list
The OP is one guy who is just wrong but i get his frustration big picture.
Munsters is not TWD or BM66 coded Lyman style. It never will be. It is what it is and its fun to play and good enough for now.
I do have a problem with the Lily and Dragula targets. How about some drops or separate targets?
TWD would not be the same without Blood Bath MB and hitting those targets strategically.
Either way, its a fun game to play, great theme and has its own simplistic style. Different is ok
Best mini playfield upper or lower EVER
Quoted from busa32927:its at .99 .98 to .99 was pointless. i hope the code does get amazing. like you said "the game has too much going for it" but its coded status is sad.
Really? That's what you think? Who gives a F. Your broken record status is sad. 
So the rules are "different" with respect to rewarding "cancelling jackpots"? FFS so what.
It's a simple game. If you want more, buy Lyman coded games. Or both.
Variety is the spice of life.
And btw, my distributor told me Stern was going to do a substantial "rework update" on Munsters. If they do great, if not, its good enough for what it is.
Quoted from jfh:If true then it means what I’ve said before is happening - code status is negatively impacting game sales to the point Stern feels the need to act. But this needs to be announced/committed in a Stern of the Union or something public/official otherwise this could be seen as a distributor (or two) doing damage control to move stock or placate existing customers. There are plenty of people willing to buy and give Stern the benefit of the doubt on code (see the statements and history of Batman 66) so there is certainly precedent.
I hope it’s true - Munsters should be a “shut up and take my money” game but there must be a significant portion of potential buyers sitting on the sidelines because they are wary of the code. (I can’t help but wonder what Ghostbusters owners will think if a Munsters rework happens before their long-promised update though).
I’m not buying based on a distributor repeating what may just be a rumor or wishful thinking. But show me the code and I’m ordering. And maybe some of those who sold their games super fast may buy another Munsters NIB too.
Congrats, YOU aren't buying. Nobody cares. Move on.
Quoted from jfh:Congrats. YOU totally missed the point.
There are clearly plenty of people who aren’t buying simply because of the code and if the rumors of Stern reversing course and planning a significant code update then Stern certainly cares.
(And I am buying when the code improves past “collect jackpots” and is worthy of a game that should be a perfect fit for me)
YOU know the drill. Quit whining about code
It’s not finished yet. And my distro said they are planning a significant rework
If they want to sell more games to people like you they will follow through. If not, on to the next
Quoted from cottonm4:I played both a Pro and a Premium at TPF. Not side-by-side but the vendors were right next to each other. The Premium shifts gears when the game moves to the lower play field but I did not notice and speed difference on the Premium main play field and the Pro. Both were fast !. I actually played 3 different Premiums from Marcos stable of Premiums. So, maybe I should say all 4 were fast.
I'm not the world's pinball wizard but I am a speed junkie. If those Premiums were slow it was lost on me.
“Slow” is not how I would define Munsters
Smooth ramps and ripping the Eddie loops are fast and flowy if you like that sort of thing
Quoted from Budman:I like fast and flowy but sold AFMr because I got bored even though it had those same characteristics....and needed room. I love the Munsters theme but want to avoid the boredom factor.
That is a legit concern
I did the same thing with AfmR
Got old but enjoyed it while she was around
Theme and lower pf on Munsters
Quoted from jfh:Oh, the irony. You win the award for the most hypocritical post in this thread.
Dude..... I own the game. Get it?
And they aren’t “facts”. Just your interpretation
And not a good one
So I’m discussing how wrong you are
My distro who buys a ton of pins actually talks to Gary. Is that hard to understand?
Quoted from jfh:Yes, I get it. I’m sorry if the point was too complex for you to understand.
And obviously reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I said people were stating “facts, opinions and suggestions on how to make the code better”, not that everything I said was fact.
If you are refering to my opinion that Stern would undertake a significant code revision after the led programmer stated the code was essentially done because sales weren’t meeting projections:
(a) what makes you think that’s not a reasonable assumption and
(b) if you don’t think it’s reasonable, what other reason(s) do you think Stern would have to make such a drastic about face?
My distro also buys a ton of pins and has a terrific relationship with both Stern and Gary personally. So what? If yours has such a good relationship he should know that Gary doesn’t call those shots anymore. That withstanding, that doesn’t mean the rumor of a code update isn’t true. What I said was that if true Stern should make that known in a method more wide ranging than a third hand anecdote or two.
If notice of a substantial code update comes in an email blast from Stern, a post on the Stern Insiders page or as part of a Stern of the Union then what your distributor told you is probably true. Until then it’s an unsubstantiated opinion. Is that so hard to understand?
Quoted from jfh:who-dey I agree with your premise here, but in fairness with most Stern titles LE buyers are put in the position where they pretty much have to commit to the game in the first few days / week after announce and very few have the opportunity to play any version of the game before putting down a deposit on an LE (which a number of dealers now make non-refundable after 2-3 days). This was certainly true with the initial hype and excitement surrounding Munsters and Stern increasing LEs from 500 to 600. LE buyers generally take a leap of faith. (Look at Batman 66 LE/SLE - most took a two year gamble). And it’s mostly on playfield and mechanical design and art because the code has never been feature complete at release on any Spike title.
You are absolutely right though when it comes a Pro or a Premium - no reason to buy without playing one first. And I agree I don’t think it’s fair to say Stern fucked anyone on Munsters - but it’s pretty clear that many who bought assuming the release code was just a base are disappointed and were hoping to see much more variety and theme immersion in game play.
ozno is right - the code as it now stands is uninventive. It’s passable and accomplished what Dwight apparently had in mind but code expectations have changed in 20 years, especially in the LCD era. There are plenty of suggestions in this thread on how it can be improved. I’m really hoping that Stern will implement some of them.
Who Dey made the right choice with the premium, better art package.
Every NIB pinball machine at today's prices are gonna take a hit in the secondary market. Some bigger than others. Thus, why keep buying LE's?
As for the code, its not BM66 with Lyman nor will it ever be. It's still a lot of fun. So is GB.
Could it be a lot better? Sure it could. I'd love it to be BM66 immersion, Alien immersion, its not, but this is a better layout than BM66
Am i disappointed? Not really, It's a blast to play and works in a multiple pin lineup, especially for average part time players.
Great players aren't ever gonna love it, Jack Danger had to pound drinks to keep himself interested while streaming Munsters the other day LOL
Stern basically took a super hot title with huge initial demand and ran it into a brick wall with Dwight’s comments on code.
Really dumb move
Average and below players are gonna like Munsters
Really good players that buy Nib games won’t jump on Munsters because the perception is the code sucks AND because it’s Dwight it’s never getting any better
Quoted from snaroff:I recently sold AS to make room for Munsters. Since the code for AS is really basic, I figured Munsters had to be better. Bad assumption on my part.
Don't know if you are a KISS fan, but the new code is awesome (much better than AS IMHO). I also prefer the KISS PF layout. 3 years is an unfortunate waiting period, but I'm glad I hung in.
Not a fan of the new AS code. It’s pretty damn good now
Quoted from rotordave:Icey left his question mark at the door.
rd
Wait wut?
Me likey AS code now
But I’m just a simpleton 
Quoted from cooked71:Interesting dilemma. Stern have always copped a lot of criticism for releasing games with inadequate code. Often the code was barely feature complete and the basic structure of the code was not even crystallised. The inadvertent upside to that was the early adopters were in fact the beta testers. The owners and players of the games were giving real feedback of the game after playing it for weeks or months. Even the coder and designer could have a lot of hands on time with the actual production game before finalising code direction. It could be argued some of the greatest Stern games have greatly benefited from this process - TWD, ACDC, Star Trek, Met.
More recently Stern have clearly started releasing games with much more complete code. This means the basic structure of the code has been fleshed out before shipping. While this is great, it means there is also means there is less chance for user feedback and also means there is less chance the code direction will be changed since more work has already gone into its basic structure before release.
Not sure which scenario I prefer TBH.
Except for Star Trek those are all Lyman games
And ST had to be “redirected” and fixed
Lyman is the only Stern guarantee for greatness
Thus, no matter when it releases, Lyman for the win
Quoted from L857:Code? What is code?Stern donen’t care about you. All they care about is your $. F—-k the dumb person trying to make a $. Stern has perfected that! If you buy a new STERN YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Look at the ratings.
But they sell 12k games a year to a bunch of “idiots”
Quoted from Rarehero:When a game is available to buy & it’s $6000-$9000, OF COURSE you can judge it!!!! Don’t accept being a guinea pig unless Stern is sending you a game for free.
Don't tell people how to spend their $$$ judgey mcjudgepants
Quoted from frankmac:That is also ok . Great pin and everyone enjoys it the way they want to enjoy it.
Hopefully everybody remembers nobody’s right nobody is wrong!!
Everything is and should be based on you and only your personal opinion . That is a good thing !!
Keep flipping Munsters it is a great pin!!
Couldn’t agree more Frank. You hit the nail on the head
I enjoy playing my Munsters. It’s fun. The game kicks my ass scoring wise
Pretty much sure Stern will never let Dwight or anyone else explain code as “shallow” again
That put an instant stop to what was a hot title, had to raise LEs to 600 to meet demand
I’m gonna have fun playing mine but will probably stick to Lyman games only in the future
Quoted from jfh:Watch the Stern making of video. Nicely done. But Dwight calls the code deep, not shallow.
I feel sorry for Borg. He clearly has a passion for the title. It must be frustrating to see near universal acclaim and interest in the game at launch and then watch demand fall off the cliff after people realized that what Dwight was going to do with the code (or not do).
Does he really call it "deep"? Need to watch that video
Borg did a phenomenal job with the layout and lower pf imho. My MunstersLE sits sandwiched in between my TWDLE and BM66LE, two all around masterpieces. Yes so much more could be done with overall theme integration, video clips etc.
My GBLE is a few pins down the row and i don't let the lack of a final update promised 2 yrs ago ruin the fun i have with that game either.
Quoted from Greenandwhite:When so many are eager to order before they have even played the pin what’s Stern’s motivation for shipping w the code complete? They crank out games, themes, and execute on deliveries. Efficiency is great but not if quality, code, or fun are missing. The only part that appeals to me is the B/W play field and artwork.
Fun and quality aren’t missing from Munsters
In case you missed it Stern has hit a brick wall on Munster sales, thus if they want to sell more pins they should improve code
That would be their motivation
Quoted from PanzerFreak:As others have said it's the theme integration that needs to improve. Stern has the assets to the show, use more of them! Theme integration is partially what helps bring a theme in a pinball machine to life. Hearing few and repeated callouts gets old. Ideally there should be unique callouts from the show for each character mode and for each level of Munster Madness. I understand that Stern wanted to create a more simple / straightforward ruleset with Munsters. That's cool. However, there's no excuse for not loading the game up with a wide variety of assets from the show.
Spot on. Theme integration ala BM66 is a no brainer for this game
Several good clips on the match sequence, it’s like they just dropped in some of what’s leftover and called it a day
I’m hopeful for much more integration of video regardless of code
It literally BLOWS ME AWAY that Stern would be “lazy” on any code for any game
Look at the results. Are they trying to sell less pins?
All the development work that goes into making a pin and the initial excitement of Munsters and then THUD
I mean I love the pin but it should be so much more on theme integration at least
Maybe all they care about is hitting a goal of 12k machines per year no matter where they come from?
BUT I really think stuff like this is gonna come back to haunt them eventually if they keep it up
Quoted from Aurich:Yeah, that’s what gets me the most. Making a pin is so much freaking work, it really is. And then to not follow through on the rest after all that?
Stern just cares about pumping them out and running the line and cashing checks I guess. And fair enough if people keep buying. For for the money they charge people should definitely expect more.
DR coming out
I mean the “perception”, whether or not it’s reality, is that Stern seems to take us buyers for granted
Quoted from Greenandwhite:Fun would be dependent upon the player but I much prefer recent Stern offerings like IMDN or BM66. Too each his own play and enjoy! It just baffles me that FOMO leads so many to buy before they flip. Utilizing some patience would alleviate buying games with code you find incomplete.
Well i also own BM66 from day one. Worst code ever at the outset. But it was Lyman.
As for IMDN, my LE is gone.
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Competition for Stern -- REAL competition -- just doesn't exist. JJP picks "safe" themes, don't "nail" their code (by code I mean modes, callouts, clips, overall pkg), they ship WELL AFTER reveal and then hype dies down and are priced $2K more that Stern Pros. All other manufacturers are a non-factor.
Each Stern game relies on the the designer/coded to get "proper" treatment. You want a players game, Lyman is the easy pick. Although I'll say with Deadpool, Tanio has done a fantastic job. Clever stuff. He's following in footsteps.
The want to believe folks and glass 1/2 full guys, and I'm probably one of them most of the time, keep fighting the facts, logic and common sense.
Bottom line, for now, Lyman should be the only HUO Stern pin I should consider.
A constant mantra in law school, "DON'T FIGHT THE FACTS"! This is my new Pinball mantra
What if.......DR can compete with Stern on pricing and volume? I know, a big if.
Stern has to keep growing, going from 12k pins a yr. to 8k pins would be a huge blow.
JJP isn't gonna provide the "real competition", its been 8 yrs and the quality control is still terrible and prices too high. They will maintain their niche but it remains to be seen whether or not they can announce a game and deliver it 60 days later AND improve quality control by hiring permanent line workers.
Munsters is a gorgeous pin, solid as a rock, FUN, fast and an awesome layout.
The overall "quality" has taken a big step up from IDMN. It's a tank by comparison of yesteryear Stern.
The shots are great, some are challenging and Dragula is damn near impossible but fun!
The code is what it is. The only negative is that it could be so much more. Come on Stern!
Quoted from snaroff:IMDN was an outlier...way more out-of-the-box problems than most Stern games.
What specifically are you referring to in terms of Munsters being a "tank"? I don't notice anything that stood out.
Well i felt like i could pick up and toss IMDN along with my BM66. The corner braces, wood bottom, PF seems to have a better clear job, pure weight of the pin and just overall feel of being solid.
I agree that IMDN was an outlier from all the Stern pins I've purchased. Junk Sarco mech and captive ball issues.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I would be a buyer if they do
I wish potential buyers like you and JFH would tell your distributor and email as many people as possible over at Stern.
Quoted from jfh:I’ve made it very clear to both, but I’m just one guy. But, like most things, the people that will speak out on an issue are typically a fraction of the people that feel the same way.
Who know how many potential sales it would take to move the needle at Stern. Hundreds? Thousands? But whatever the number, Stern has already lost some percentage of those potential sales as those with limited space and/or funds move on to consider newer games.
Yeah I don’t get it.
Maybe they just said screw it and the resources are going to pins B C and D
Like GB code
Like I said before, Lyman only for me now if I buy another Stern
Maybe DR will care and actually follow through
Quoted from Eskaybee:Lyman is great, but he takes years to get his games complete. Are we ever going to see an oi mania mode?
Tanio is turning out to be top notch. Looking forward to his next pin.
Elwin writes most his rules for the coder, looking forward to seeing how his next game pans out codewise, I imagine it’ll be just as epic as IMDN.
Verdict is still out with timballs but he sounds open minded, and I really enjoyed his input and ideas he added to IMDN and DP. We’ll have to re-evaluate BK3 in about 6 mos or so.
Dwight’s code for SW is one of the most original and coolest unorthodox codes in pinball. Really fascinating. Too bad he’s getting a bad wrap from pinside on Munsters; it’s really a fun edge of your seat game. I’d never own one, but that’s not because of the rules, far from it actually. All in all Dwight takes chances and tries to make his next game different from his last.
The MXV factor. Having Mike being a game tester and rules support developer has been huge for stern. So glad he’s there supporting every release.
All in all stern really is putting out some great stuff with an epic quality support team. But if you’re looking to buy every title right at release, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
I agree with you SKB and you are buddies with Elwin so I’ll put him into my future buy list as well
And no, I’m not buying every release, that’s the point, picky picky time
Quoted from Eskaybee:Yes; this is the era of being picky for huo ownership. And no, short of watching his videos and forum posting we’re not buddies with Elwin, only met him once before i knew he was lol.
Well he is on the list too. I thought TWD review/play was you guys. I'm no Elwin but i conquered that Beast after a year!!!
Quoted from cottonm4:Got a question. Some of you keep saying there are a lot of people waiting in wings who would be buyers only if Stern would address the code.
Can anybody put numbers on how many reluctant buyers are standing by?
Thanks
It's not just the current games.
It's games like GB.
So the "reluctance" is palpable and growing going forward
When you are asked to pay a shit load of $$$ for a HUO game the "code" better deliver OR
It will be a slow/fast erosion of support.
It's coming
Quoted from Who-Dey:The lower playfield is the best lower playfield in pinball history and it is a lot of fun. The flippers need to be set to soft though ir it doesn't feel right. The Munsters is a great pin. I am surrounded with great games in my basement and Munsters is the only one i want to play right now. I cant get enough of it.
That is saying alot coming from a guy that doesn't like upper/lower pf's.
Glad you are loving it Terry, so am i
Quoted from J85M:Ice you keep saying this, at some point your going to actually have to do this brother
Live and learn brother...
Will try to live by it.......
New games for me are getting very selective.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Reply indicating leaning towards more, but the demand for upgraded software has to be there on a title that is already selling very well without it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease for sure.
The "already selling well" comment tells you all you need to know.
They sold the shit out of GB and almost 3 yrs later we are still waiting for a promised code update. Love that game too BUT....
I really like my Munsters pin as it is, it kicks my ass scoring wise like no other and its a solid F ing game.
That said, I've learned my lesson, yes finally, I will NEVER buy another Stern pinball machine unless Lyman Sheets is doing the code.
I don't care whatever the F they say or promise, that's it.
So you can send tons of email requests begging that Dwight and Stern makes Munsters better and deeper coded and i could care less if they ever do.
Bottom line, again, in the FUTURE, its only in "LYMAN WE TRUST".
So that means its possible that Elvira3 will be next for me. Makes it easy, Stern has done it to themselves.
Quoted from hank527:I'd like to ask you to consider Tanio and company as well. They frikkin knocked Deadpool code out of the park. I'll continue to support Lyman and his one game every other year, but I'm loving Deadpool and it's code.
Holding back on the BK team as code is early but I'm digging that one right now, but they need to finish strong.
Deadpool seems to be getting a ton of love after the fact now. That's fantastic!
I guess what i'm saying is Stern NIB games are off limits for me except for Lyman and maybe Elwin based on IMDN 
Quoted from Shapeshifter:You need to add Keith Elwin with Lyman as he knocked it out of the park with Maiden.
Agree, he's gotta be on the watch list. Elwin seems like a Lyman type perfectionist.
Quoted from cpr9999:That’s the Stern way - base code (comes at various levels on games) - then improves over many, many months.
I thought Munsters was supposed to be more basic code though (didn’t know it was buggy?). Maybe they listen and add a bit more code/mode.
The code is NOT buggy in the slightest
It’s not an easy F ing game to score
I just got 124 mill on ball 1 and ended up with 146 mill. My high score on new code is 165 mill
But I’m just now getting into dial it in mode
The only problem is level 2 and beyond.
That’s the difference between Lyman and Dwight
It’s a F ing Blast.
Quoted from PinMonk:Absolutely. I like Dwight's "chess pinball" from Game of Thrones and to a lesser extent, Star Wars. I just never imagined he'd stop at checkers and call it a day like he has with Munsters (as he stated). So yeah, a much different BFD than expected.
Quoted from PinMonk:Munsters is literally almost point for point at the same place Batman '66 was when it launched very poorly. And Dwight is on record saying it's pretty much done, so no Lyman rehab of the whole thing is coming to save it.
One of the most inaccurate and ignorant comments I’ve EVER heard related to pinball and that’s saying something
To compare BM66 at launch, which I owned then and now, with Munsters is just plain STUPID, biased and ignorant
You are an operator assistant that doesn’t own games or care about them.
All you ever do is whine and bitch about shit that doesn’t matter AND you are so clueless when it comes to Munsters I can only think it’s a “hater mentality”
Just like you went on and on about BM66
Just simply F ing WRONG
Quoted from Thunderbird:Agreed. Munsters is a very good game, that could use some more TV show theme integration and then it will become a classic. It has all the other markings of a classic. My opinion is: Dwight said it’s done because he didn’t wish to be hounded incessantly like he’s been on GB. It’s really up to Stern if more is added and will happen if enough of us continue to request it.
It’s not depth we want, it’s really Munster’s show theme integration modes that most of us desire. The game is good now, but could be so much more with just a little effort.
Star Wars is an excellent coded deep theme game now. If Munsters were to receive that treatment, everyone would be happier.
It will NEVER be BM66 because Dwight isn’t Lyman and he doesn’t care
Look at GB 3 yrs later
“Sleepy Dwight” is my new nickname for him
It is what it is
Munsters is really good now BUT.....
Cut and paste code is no bueno long term
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Boerne, TX