I was talking with a Stern programmer a fews years back at Expo (2016 maybe? Starts to all blur honestly). Was around 2am, just hanging in the hall by the tournament games shooting the shit. He told me two things that stuck with me despite the late hour:

1) Everyone at Stern loves the 90s era of pins, and wants nothing more than to make games of that caliber

2) The programmers are given half the time that they had in the 90s to make the games

I'll leave his identity a mystery, but let's just say you could all guess it easily. It's not that these guys don't care or are bad at their job, it's just that games get pumped out, time is short, and we expect more and more from the code, while they're given less and less time to get it done.

I agree with Lyman on this topic, can't remember the podcast he was on, but he said the thing he looks for in a game is are there multiple ways to approach it? His example, and a favorite of mine, was The Shadow. It's not a deep or complicated game, but you can walk up and play it multiple ways. Are you going for the modes? Trying to get the secret laughing mode started? Comboing ramps for Super Vengeance? Working on your loops?

Sometimes I'll play Shadow with the intent of getting to Final Battle, but I get distracted by Super Vengeance because it's just so fun and satisfying to hit those ramp combos with the diverter switches. It's like driving stick shift, you feel like your whole body is engaged in the experience.

Honestly I give two shits about rule depth, I just want to know is the game fun? If it's deep and fun, great! If it's deep and a grind, hard pass. If it's simple and fun (TNA) then that's a really good game to have around. If it's simple and boring who the hell cares about that game? Fun needs to be the watch word imo.

No. The game is the game. If you like it great, if you wish it was something else you're never going to get your wish.

Not because Stern is evil, or Dwight is lazy, or anything like that, it's just the reality of what's going to happen. You'll wait forever. Buy or don't based on that.

Integrating a theme into the audio package is basic "doing pinball work" and not out of the ordinary to expect.

I mean no offense, but looking at your collection it doesn't seem like you're particularly interested in even vaguely modern pinball. Meaning the kind of rule sets that existed in the '90s.

Nothing wrong with that, I happed to think the kind of early solid state titles you seem to favor are great games. But people don't want to pay $6k for games of that complexity.

Just saying, you're probably a pretty extreme outlier for the conversation. Doesn't mean you don't get an opinion, just that I doubt many people buying this game only own games from the '80s otherwise and are looking for that kind of simple play.

It’s the dichotomy of the home owner vs the location player.

I personally suspect that Stern thought Munsters could be another Addams Family. Take the same kind of theme, make it easy to play and understand, and create something to draw players in who remembered having fun with that. Everyone you meet who finds out you’re into pinball tells you they liked Addams Family right?

Maybe it’s working. I dunno that we have any real insight into sales numbers. My guess is in 2019 going after location play and not catering to collectors is a mistake. But we don’t get to see the books.

I do think it’s unfortunate that Dwight is being painted as lazy. My interactions with him have been minimal, Stern cut me off a long time ago, but I was briefly beta testing Star Trek code before that. I got nothing but the impression that he cared.

Have you read his old blog posts about making pinball? He sweated a lot of details in it.

Maybe he’s a bad fit for for this game. Maybe he’s only been given a limited amount of time to work on it. Maybe licensing is more of a headache than people know. Might be rights issues, that happens.

Either way I think criticizing the game is more than fair, it’s clearly not creating the experience fans want, but I wish we could do it without making it personal.

Just my thoughts on that, as someone who knows what it feels like to be on the receiving end.

I’m basically bored with license slapping. Munsters feels like a prime example. Take something people are nostalgic for, do a good art package (glad we get good art now) and get the fans to buy.

But then that seems to be it. There isn’t enough love and care out into actually making the fans hype. Maybe you need someone on the team who’s a big fan themselves.

For Alien the secret weapon we had was the whole team loved the movies. Getting the atmosphere right and representing the key scenes and characters was super important to all of us.

Not saying our game is the best, but I do think we nailed that. Nobody who’s an Alien fan feels like we didn’t represent the movies.

My take is if you get that right the “depth” of code won’t matter much. Always someone who wants more, but if the world and vibe and atmosphere and quotes and all that good stuff is there it’s probably enough. Just look at Tron.

The audio/visual part is the real failure right? I haven’t played it, but I’ve also never even watched the show, I’d be a terrible judge.

But what I’m hearing is people want more quotes, more clips, more things that represent the big scenes.

That’s stuff does take some time. But, it’s also not that hard. I can’t design a playfield, but I do know about integrating video and audio clips into a game.

The work on Black Knight’s media package was way more time intensive than what doing a bunch more Munsters clips would be, I can tell you that.

The rules for it all are kind of a separate thing, but just adding more to the screen and speakers isn’t rocket science. They could at least mix it up more so you heard and saw some variety.

The bet they could buy a lot of fan goodwill just doing that.

Yeah, that’s what gets me the most. Making a pin is so much freaking work, it really is. And then to not follow through on the rest after all that?

Stern just cares about pumping them out and running the line and cashing checks I guess. And fair enough if people keep buying. For for the money they charge people should definitely expect more.

Because there’s no “they” about it. What non-Lyman game has ever had that kind of overhaul?

I don’t wish any pin to suck. I hope everyone gets what they want. But it’s foolish to think it will just happen and buy accordingly. Buy if you’re happy with it now without anything extra, and it’s a bonus if it ever gets a substantial update.

Just as a point of interest, if you ever lose the amusement factor of the messages, if you put someone on ignore they lose the ability to PM you.

I dunno, I've always found it kind of amusing to see the downvotes, it means they're reading my posts, and meanwhile I don't see a thing they have to say.

If you're getting abusive PMs then report him, there's no excuse for that nonsense. I might have hypothetically ignored a certain poster ages ago, and my life is better for it. Do as you will, but I recommend not wasting your time with some people.

So you’re saying Munsters won’t have its dolphin polished?

There are a lot of people in pinball now who only buy NIB. Used to be the new hobby people with money would try and buy all the A list 90s games after they got hooked, now they just line up LCD screen games and look down on anything without or with some age.

Hey, buy what you want. But new in box buyers with new pinball money have changed the culture.

Says the person who clicked and replied to a thread titled "Munsters. worst code ever? probably"

You know how you really show you don't care? You don't click when it's obvious what it's gonna be, and if you do click and it's dumb, you just close the window without replying. I like the discussion, why I'm in this thread. Some "haters" don't bug me, people just trying to figure out what would make the game better. It's healthy. Every time companies listen to the "whiners" everyone wins for the most part. But you do you.

That's it. They're new. They have a warranty and a dealer to hold their hand. I know a collector I think you probably know too, had all the AAA games. Cactus Canyon blah blah. Couldn't even take the glass off his games. He was so grateful when I fixed a leaf switch on his slingshot one night when I visited with Kyle. Nice guy! But some people are afraid of the inside of their games, and to them new represents less worries.

Honestly I'd rather buy a used game than another NIB game, more headaches trying to dial in a new game than a nicely set up used one.

You can't have it both ways really. I drain threads all the time when I don't feel like dealing with the angst. I ignore people too, and I have yet to feel like I'm missing a thing.

Either be interested in what people have to say, even if you don't agree, or use the tools to remove them as irritations. Draining a thread feels great imo!

So be an adult and fucking drain it already.