(Topic ID: 240540)

Munsters. worst code ever? probably


By busa32927

6 months ago



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There are 1390 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 28.
#1101 3 months ago
Quoted from lasermel:

No firmware updates from Stern in nearly a month! Maybe a GIANT one is coming for Munsters and ALL the programmers are working on it?

The code is done. Don't expect to see much more at all.

#1102 3 months ago

Maybe Dwight will get around to it in 30 months or so.

#1103 3 months ago
Quoted from lasermel:

No firmware updates from Stern in nearly a month! Maybe a GIANT one is coming for Munsters and ALL the programmers are working on it?

Yep, maybe

#1104 3 months ago
Quoted from lasermel:

No firmware updates from Stern in nearly a month! Maybe a GIANT one is coming for Munsters and ALL the programmers are working on it?

I wouldn't hold my breath for that.

#1105 3 months ago

It may be 1.0, but no really big license title like Munsters will/should/better stop at 1.0. Batman didn’t stop, DP didn’t stop, IDMN didn’t stop, Star Wars didn’t stop and on and on. No top title stops at just 1.0 and considered done. Stern would be nuts to take a top tier license like Munsters and stop at 1.0. So much more potential for Munsters: would be a big shame to stop there period.

#1106 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

It may be 1.0, but no really big license title like Munsters will/should/better stop at 1.0. Batman didn’t stop, DP didn’t stop, IDMN didn’t stop, Star Wars didn’t stop and on and on. No top title stops at just 1.0 and considered done. Stern would be nuts to take a top tier license like Munsters and stop at 1.0. So much more potential for Munsters: would be a big shame to stop there period.

all of those other games are/were coded by people that have a track record of taking code past 1.0.

munsters will likely fall into the same state as ghostbusters (which is an even better license that has been completely abandoned code-wise)

14
#1107 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

It may be 1.0, but no really big license title like Munsters will/should/better stop at 1.0. Batman didn’t stop, DP didn’t stop, IDMN didn’t stop, Star Wars didn’t stop and on and on. No top title stops at just 1.0 and considered done. Stern would be nuts to take a top tier license like Munsters and stop at 1.0. So much more potential for Munsters: would be a big shame to stop there period.

The mold is cast. Even if they improved the code now, the game will never live up to its potential. What’s worse is now they will need to hide Dwight. If they assign him to a game, the sales of that game will be negatively impacted by the games he left in his wake. If Stern announced a “DaveH” pinball machine that delivered hot pizza and cold beer through the coin door when you won a free game, and that Dwight was coding it... I’d have to wait to see the code. He will become an albatross.

And I apologize directly to Dwight for that comment. Your source code may be fine, but your final results are uninspired.

#1108 3 months ago
Quoted from DaveH:

The mold is cast. Even if they improved the code now, the game will never live up to its potential. What’s worse is now they will need to hide Dwight. If they assign him to a game, the sales of that game will be negatively impacted by the games he left in his wake. If Stern announced a “DaveH” pinball machine that delivered hot pizza and cold beer through the coin door when you won a free game, and that Dwight was coding it... I’d have to wait to see the code. He will become an albatross.
And I apologize directly to Dwight for that comment. Your source code may be fine, but your final results are uninspired.

I am not sure that is fair; Dwight has a lot of interesting games under his belt, but they do seem to have bugs that are unaddressed. Hell, STTNG has that bug where I think the Time Rift mode won't award an aritfact after the first "play of the day".

And anybody describing Munsters as a "big license" or thinking somehow the entire Stern Coding team is dropping what they are doing to save this game is out in fantasy land.

Munsters is NOT a big license. It was probably only picked to try and snipe and Monster Bash Remake sales.

It was designed to be a simple ass game (hence the super long single standup targets vs. individual targets you have to actually aim a bit to hit). They delivered a simple ass game as advertised/promised. I mean really.

#1109 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Munsters is NOT a big license. It was probably only picked to try and snipe and Monster Bash Remake sales.
It was designed to be a simple ass game (hence the super long single standup targets vs. individual targets you have to actually aim a bit to hit). They delivered a simple ass game as advertised/promised. I mean really.

Agreed. The problem is "simple ass" games are harder to justify for home purchases (and it doesn't appear the license is killing it on location).

My Munsters Pro left my home faster than any other game in my collector (past/present).

Blaming specific individuals isn't fair. Stern *isn't* a boutique pinball manufacturer. Stern is collectively responsible for the quality of their games.

#1110 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

They delivered a simple ass game as advertised/promised. I mean really.

Yet another evolution in Stern cheaping out as people continue to buy... Now its called "throw-back" (LOL) code. In other words, paper thin, with no intent to update. Queue the next pin on the line please....

#1111 3 months ago
Quoted from sleepygtr:

Yet another evolution in Stern cheaping out as people continue to buy... Now its called "throw-back" (LOL) code. In other words, paper thin, with no intent to update. Queue the next pin on the line please....

-2
#1112 3 months ago

Maybe what we are seeing is the segmentation of the market into "home pin" companies (JJP, Spooky, American) and a route company (Stern), So its not bad for pinball i reckon

#1113 3 months ago
Quoted from sleepygtr:

Maybe what we are seeing is the segmentation of the market into "home pin" companies (JJP, Spooky, American) and a route company (Stern), So its not bad for pinball i reckon

Hope not. My collection is dominated by some awesome Stern titles that are a blast to play. Stern is also the most financially viable pinball company with the greatest manufacturing capabilities. Since they produce so many games, not every game is going to be a gem. This was true back in 2004 (with games like LOTR/TSPP) and it's true now.

#1114 3 months ago

I put some more games on the premium yesterday. My wife enjoys it. Its a beautiful game. I like the lower pf, but i felt like i spent waaay to much time in the lower pf....disrupting the flow of tge game. If they could just incorporate a lot more of the show series and callouts from the series....I would be interested in one.

#1115 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Read this and was thinking if Munsters is old theme....what is Alice Cooper?
Does anyone know when his #1 song was originally produced? 1972 !!!!!

Music is a bit more evergreen. An old band that’s now classic still has had its songs played & enjoyed over the years. Also - Spooky is doing small runs of 500, so they have the luxury of appealing to a small fan base of any particular theme. Stern doesn’t only want to sell 500. They want to sell 5000-10,000.

#1116 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Munsters is NOT a big license. It was probably only picked to try and snipe and Monster Bash Remake sales.

Borg wanted to make Munsters since the 90’s. He grew up loving it, and everyone knows what a huge hit Addams was...so, the logic was more that Munsters could be the next Addams....but, that was the 90’s, it’s 2019 now.

#1117 3 months ago

Addams isn't particularly deep either, but it's packed with gizmos and is a lot of fun. It says a lot that it's still super popular and the non-pinball person's pinball machine. No one will remember Munsters pinball in 10 years time.

#1118 3 months ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Addams isn't particularly deep either, but it's packed with gizmos and is a lot of fun. It says a lot that it's still super popular and the non-pinball person's pinball machine. No one will remember Munsters pinball in 10 years time.

Depth doesn't always mean fun. Not-deep doesn't mean BAD. Addams is EXACTLY what a pinball machine needs to be fun, intuitive, addicting, and stand the test of time. There's a magic to making rules/gameplay match the physical playfield design. B/W games were the pinnacle of that. Munsters' "simplicity" isn't in the same ballpark of the 90's games. If it was, I think plenty of us would be overjoyed.

#1119 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I am not sure that is fair; Dwight has a lot of interesting games under his belt, but they do seem to have bugs that are unaddressed. Hell, STTNG has that bug where I think the Time Rift mode won't award an aritfact after the first "play of the day".
And anybody describing Munsters as a "big license" or thinking somehow the entire Stern Coding team is dropping what they are doing to save this game is out in fantasy land.
Munsters is NOT a big license. It was probably only picked to try and snipe and Monster Bash Remake sales.
It was designed to be a simple ass game (hence the super long single standup targets vs. individual targets you have to actually aim a bit to hit). They delivered a simple ass game as advertised/promised. I mean really.

You’re the one up in the night, thinking it’s not a big license!

A friend of mine in the mod business called it a block buster license sales wise. Said only one machine has ever performed similarly in sales and that was MET. Said nothing else has come close to Munsters sales wise. Yes, it is a blockbuster big license title, loved the world over. Anyone thinking differently is in denial. The LE’s sold out almost instantly. They even increased them by another 100.

Spoken with insiders whom say it is now selling like hot cakes. Ask anyone that doesn’t know pinball and they’ll tell you Monster Bash is a song? Ask most people what Munsters is about and they know, even if they’re not into pinball. Been in syndication for over 50 years.

It would be a shame if Stern didn’t give it some mode based needed Munsters story line, in the vain of Munsters midnight madness. The game is good now, but could be so much more and one of Sterns number one sellers of all time, if they spent just a little more time and improved the code with Munsters show material. Wouldn’t be hard to do.

#1120 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

You’re the one up in the night, thinking it’s not a big license!
A friend of mine in the mod business called it a block buster license sales wise. Said only one machine has ever performed similarly in sales and that was MET. Said nothing else has come close to Munsters sales wise. Yes, it is a blockbuster big license title, loved the world over. Anyone thinking differently is in denial. The LE’s sold out almost instantly. They even increased them by another 100.
Spoken with insiders whom say it is now selling like hot cakes. Ask anyone that doesn’t know pinball and they’ll tell you Monster Bash is a song? Ask most people what Munsters is about and they know, even if they’re not into pinball. Been in syndication for over 50 years.
It would be a shame if Stern didn’t give it some mode based needed Munsters story line, in the vain of Munsters midnight madness. The game is good now, but could be so much more and one of Sterns number one sellers of all time, if they spent just a little more time and improved the code with Munsters show material. Wouldn’t be hard to do.

If it was selling so well, it would still be on the line. They made the initial machines, pushed them out, and that was that. Recent tour was all deadpool (heating up to white hot sales now that the code is good) and BK:SOR. When used Munsters pros were under 5k a month in, that's not a good sign. And with Operators taking it off routes in a month or less due to bad earnings (us and others) or watching Munsters perform at the bottom of earnings, it's not a hot title. It's a dud.

#1121 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

It would be a shame if Stern didn’t give it some mode based needed Munsters story line, in the vain of Munsters midnight madness. The game is good now, but could be so much more and one of Sterns number one sellers of all time, if they spent just a little more time and improved the code with Munsters show material. Wouldn’t be hard to do.

Couldn´t agree more. It IS a good game, I really like my Pro. But it could be an all time classic without too much work. Please Stern - make it happen!

#1122 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Spoken with insiders whom say it is now selling like hot cakes.

Your insiders must be drinking some really strong stuff with those hot cakes.

Munsters sales plummeted after the initial LE rush. Hardly any interest in the new color Premium. Plenty of NIB stock for Pro/Premiums and lots of lightly used games for sale in the secondary market. Unless Stern beefs up the code expect tepid demand for the game.

The good news is that if you want one they should be easy to find and you should be able to find a deal pretty easily, at least in the US.

#1123 3 months ago

For curiosity's sake I compared the search popularity of the Munsters on google trends to Addams Family, Metallica, Monster Bash, and what the heck... Angry Birds.

Not shockingly, Monster Bash was dead last. But most objective people could guess what the next least popular item was.

Almost nobody cares about the Munsters in 2019; doesn't mean a great pinball game could not be made from it. But thinking this is somehow a great license with wide appeal is perplexing. If that is the case Angry Birds would still be an EPIC license to get hold of.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=munsters,addams%20family,monster%20bash,metallica,angry%20birds

#1124 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

For curiosity's sake I compared the search popularity of the Munsters on google trends to Addams Family, Metallica, Monster Bash, and what the heck... Angry Birds.
Not shockingly, Monster Bash was dead last. But most objective people could guess what the next least popular item was.
Almost nobody cares about the Munsters in 2019; doesn't mean a great pinball game could not be made from it. But thinking this is somehow a great license with wide appeal is perplexing. If that is the case Angry Birds would still be an EPIC license to get hold of.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=munsters,addams%20family,monster%20bash,metallica,angry%20birds

Yes they should have done a better theme. Rambo First Blood would have been much better.

-3
#1125 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Yes, it is a blockbuster big license title, loved the world over.

yikes! sometimes i wonder if i’m even living on the same planet as some of you folks.

in 2019 munsters is a c-tier license at best. maybe low b-tier if you are 45+ years of age. NOBODY cares about the freaking munsters in 2019.

blockbuster.... good lord man.

#1126 3 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

yikes! sometimes i wonder if i’m even living on the same planet as some of you folks.
in 2019 munsters is a c-tier license at best. maybe low b-tier if you are 45+ years of age. NOBODY cares about the freaking munsters in 2019.
blockbuster.... good lord man.

I dont know about you, but Munsters is a much better licence than shitzilla will be,
Only code will suffer sales for Munsters!

#1127 3 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

yikes! sometimes i wonder if i’m even living on the same planet as some of you folks.
in 2019 munsters is a c-tier license at best. maybe low b-tier if you are 45+ years of age. NOBODY cares about the freaking munsters in 2019.
blockbuster.....

Keep in mind, I didn’t call it Block Buster. OP called it that to describe sales. I hope it isn’t blockbuster so Stern will add much needed Munsters show material to the code. However, you’re totally out there if you don’t think, Frankenstein, Dracula, Wolfman, Lilly etc. which this show has as main characters, will never be irrelevant. All ages enjoy those characters. They are A title, not C title licenses. Just take a look at little children dressing up as those characters every Halloween.

#1128 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Keep in mind, I didn’t call it Block Buster. OP called it that to describe sales. I hope it isn’t blockbuster so Stern will add much needed Munsters show material to the code. However, you’re totally out there if you don’t think, Frankenstein, Dracula, Wolfman etc. which this show has as main characters, will never be irrelevant. All ages enjoy those characters. They are A title, not C title licenses.

my apologies. i possibly got lost in the thread with who was making what point.

i agree... the classic "movie monsters" are beyond a trope and will always be a part of western pop-culture. a-tier for sure.

but the munsters themselves and the 2 season show that ran in the 60's will never be. its c-tier stuff and the fanbase is shrinking every day.

#1129 3 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

my apologies. i possibly got lost in the thread with who was making what point.
i agree... the classic "movie monsters" are beyond a trope and will always be a part of western pop-culture. a-tier for sure.
but the munsters themselves and the 2 season show that ran in the 60's will never be. its c-tier stuff and the fanbase is shrinking every day.

Thanks, but the show is still gaining fan base around the world, because of syndication, not shrinking. If the Munster’s was just a movie or two, I’d agree, but 70 plus shows in syndication keep it going, with the monster ever green characters. Eddie (Butch Patrick) is still in strong demand at comicons, Halloween based events with his two show cars, all the time. He still makes a living from the show.

#1130 3 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

yikes! sometimes i wonder if i’m even living on the same planet as some of you folks.
in 2019 munsters is a c-tier license at best. maybe low b-tier if you are 45+ years of age. NOBODY cares about the freaking munsters in 2019.
blockbuster.... good lord man.

The only way Munsters could have had legs beyond the initial excitement from niche nostalgists would have been to have amazing mechanical features & great code, so the marketing hype machine could have constantly compared it to Addams Family. Even people who know nothing about pinball has played Addams. It's the "Pac-Man" or "Street Fighter 2" of pinball. If Munsters could have gained the reputation as the "New Addams", this whole gamble could have worked out. Unfortunately, the playfield is pretty standard, the torso bash toy doesn't inspire players to keep playing like Thing or the Bookcase, and the hardcore players hate the rules. So now - it's a theme that means nothing & a game that no one cares about.

-2
#1131 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

...and the hardcore players hate the rules.

Casuals on location here hated it, too. It's not just hardcore.

-2
#1132 3 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Casuals on location here hated it, too. It's not just hardcore.

That's what I meant...it doesn't have anything on the playfield to really draw in casual players like Addams did. The theme will make players think "oh cool, maybe it's like Addams". Then they play it. Nah.

#1133 3 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Thanks, but the show is still gaining fan base around the world, because of syndication, not shrinking.

Eh. I'd wager more fans die each day than come on board via syndication (season 1 on Amazon has less than 300 reviews - traditional syndicated TV is dead) or some rose-colored nostalgia nonsense at a comic-con.

regardless. the game feels like a complete missed opportunity on many fronts and i do hope things improve with additional code.

#1134 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Almost nobody cares about the Munsters in 2019; doesn't mean a great pinball game could not be made from it. But thinking this is somehow a great license with wide appeal is perplexing.

Agreed.

I think that a part of the reason Munsters and, to some extent, Black Knight were greenlit was to let these two designers work on their dream themes. Stern is at a place where they can afford to take a few chances to keep the crew happy.

#1135 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The only way Munsters could have had legs beyond the initial excitement from niche nostalgists would have been to have amazing mechanical features & great code, so the marketing hype machine could have constantly compared it to Addams Family. Even people who know nothing about pinball has played Addams. It's the "Pac-Man" or "Street Fighter 2" of pinball. If Munsters could have gained the reputation as the "New Addams", this whole gamble could have worked out. Unfortunately, the playfield is pretty standard, the torso bash toy doesn't inspire players to keep playing like Thing or the Bookcase, and the hardcore players hate the rules. So now - it's a theme that means nothing & a game that no one cares about.

Great summary. I bought one and had to sell it as I just didn't dig it.

#1136 3 months ago
Quoted from hank527:

Great summary. I bought one and had to sell it as I just didn't dig it.

I was excited, as I'm one of those people who has nostalgia for it (it was on in syndication in the early 80s)...but I always wait & see & play. After GB totally botched one of my favorite themes, and Dutch screwed up the greatest movie ever with the TBL situation, I can never buy without playing first.

#1137 3 months ago

Is it any different/better than 90's B/W games though?

#1138 3 months ago
Quoted from JediPimp:

Is it any different/better than 90's B/W games though?

It has an LCD screen. Otherwise it is a pretty dumbed down game mechanically and rules wise. Shoots well.

The rules could grow on me like SW and GOT did but I am not betting my 5k on it...

11
#1139 3 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

NOBODY cares about the freaking munsters in 2019.

Then why on earth are you even here????????

#1140 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

It has an LCD screen. Otherwise it is a pretty dumbed down game mechanically and rules wise. Shoots well.
The rules could grow on me like SW and GOT did but I am not betting my 5k on it...

sorry I meant in terms of code, I thought Stern were going for a simple game on site that would rival Addams, but we know how that has turned out.

#1141 3 months ago
Quoted from JediPimp:

Is it any different/better than 90's B/W games though?

This recent trend of diminishing 90's B/W games is BIZARRE. They are perfect. The perfect combination of great design, great features, great sound design, and great rules. Who started this whole thing about B/W games not being the absolute gold standard to strive toward?!?!

#1142 3 months ago
Quoted from JediPimp:

sorry I meant in terms of code, I thought Stern were going for a simple game on site that would rival Addams, but we know how that has turned out.

The code is very fun just like an older game. It is not deep but it is fun and for me and many others it never gets old trying to blow up the Super Jackpots and trying to get to Munster Madness. Do not expect GOT type rules, DO expect tons of fun though.

#1143 3 months ago

I really do hopy Munsters get a code update that can lift this title, It really does have Fantastic artwork, shoots smooth, nice mini playfield.
how much better would this have been if Llyman had coded it.

#1144 3 months ago
Quoted from Squizz:

how much better would this have been if Llyman had coded it.

Unf*ckingbelievably better.

#1145 3 months ago
Quoted from Squizz:

how much better would this have been if Llyman had coded it.

Probably much better but he didn't and we got a Dwight code. The game is still coded pretty well and is a lot of fun though. If you disagree with that go seek one out and try to blow up a big score on one. See how much that you can cash in on the Super jackpots.

#1146 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Who started this whole thing about B/W games not being the absolute gold standard to strive toward?!?!

There are a lot of people in pinball now who only buy NIB. Used to be the new hobby people with money would try and buy all the A list 90s games after they got hooked, now they just line up LCD screen games and look down on anything without or with some age.

Hey, buy what you want. But new in box buyers with new pinball money have changed the culture.

12
#1147 3 months ago

As a general rule, I enjoy reading all the different posts on lots of different games. But this thread is filled with haters who just keep harping on the same real or perceived issues. It's depressing. I don't understand the passion with which some posters spew their disgust and disappointment regarding Munsters.
Personally, I own a Munsters LE. For whatever reason, I enjoy it immensely. If that ever changes, I will sell it (at a loss, as almost everything depreciates) and move on to something else. Meanwhile, I will enjoy the heck out of it. Life is too short (for me) to give a lot of my attention to haters and whiners. No offense to anyone, just my opinion.

#1148 3 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

But new in box buyers with new pinball money have changed the culture.

Yup...and unfortunately they judge "old" games based on what they hear other new players saying...and I think most of these people haven't played the great 90's games, or haven't played well maintained versions.

It's a shame. They're really missing out on the best of the best....and this is coming from a "Whitestar/SAM Stern defender" lol. When I started in the hobby around 2006 or so, ALL COLLECTORS HATED STERN GAMES lol...I was the guy going "they're actually really fun" while everyone else was saying "They're cheap, their ugly, the toys suck, the playfield printing sucks, the cabinet resolution sucks, the plastics resolution sucks, the ramps are thinner, etc etc etc". Full on hate. Even collectors who buckled and bought "good" Sterns like LOTR would still bitch about them. Anyway, I wish I understood what the new "new only" buyers are seeing in the new games...other than they're...new? I feel like if they played a nice clean lineup of 90's B/W games, their minds would be blown at the creativity, mechs, and organic & fun (and often deep or deep enough) rules.

#1149 3 months ago

Every new game could have a hate thread like this...just the Stern model. Release with partial code and fix over the long haul.

Maybe every new game should get a thread like this....hmmm....second thought - what a big freakin waste of time!

#1150 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yup...and unfortunately they judge "old" games based on what they hear other new players saying...and I think most of these people haven't played the great 90's games, or haven't played well maintained versions.
It's a shame. They're really missing out on the best of the best....and this is coming from a "Whitestar/SAM Stern defender" lol. When I started in the hobby around 2006 or so, ALL COLLECTORS HATED STERN GAMES lol...I was the guy going "they're actually really fun" while everyone else was saying "They're cheap, their ugly, the toys suck, the playfield printing sucks, the cabinet resolution sucks, the plastics resolution sucks, the ramps are thinner, etc etc etc". Full on hate. Even collectors who buckled and bought "good" Sterns like LOTR would still bitch about them. Anyway, I wish I understood what the new "new only" buyers are seeing in the new games...other than they're...new? I feel like if they played a nice clean lineup of 90's B/W games, their minds would be blown at the creativity, mechs, and organic & fun (and often deep or deep enough) rules.

Maintenance...maintenance....maintenance....troubleshooting....troubleshooting....fixing....fixing

Lots of the new player, buyers; don’t enjoy tearing into games to learn about the mechanics, electronics, etc. I think that’s half the fun; but sometimes just playing can be more fun.

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