OMG I simply don't get folks dissing on this soon to be top 10 Pinside game. Guess people were slamming Adam's Family in other threads.

Top 10 Pinside on which list? Disappointments?

It wasn't the first time the layout was reused, so there's always hope.

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It's Borg so no worries there!

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Just sent this letter to Stern and I hope many more of you will also:

Dear_________,

I’m still wondering and I’m sure it’s a fairly big issue about Munsters code being considered shallow. Are there any plans to deepen (add show based modes) the code?

For location play, it’s fine, but for a home environment I know of a dozen or more people personally that won’t buy the table even though you’ve designed it so well to be a classic player. I’m concerned about that too. To have staying power in the home, we need plenty Munsters based series theme integrated video modes and not just be a “jackpot” coded focus, which is now.

Since Munsters is such a great theme and should be equal to Lyman’s effort coding Batman, what can we do to encourage Stern to have Dwight put more effort in making it more show mode based, with a deeper code set?

At such current day high prices, this will sell many more tables, as I’ve spoken to many friends that keep telling me that I shouldn’t buy or they won’t buy till code is deepened. They all wish to buy if the code improves. Do we have any hope that this will happen?

Again thanks for your awesome work on Munsters, it shoots like a dream, we just need code to match.

If enough of us write in about this issue and not just complain about it here, Stern will listen. Here’s hoping that many of you will join the campaign to make Munsters the future classic table it should become.

Cheers!

I’m guessing Stern would need a few hundred of similar letters to even consider it.

It's really not even fine for location play as it seems to be a pretty poor earner on location.

Not trolling but surely you bought Munsters based on what it was, not what it could be?

You were never promised deep code. Why did you buy it if you wanted or expected deep code? There were plenty of opportunities to see what it was like to play either on online reviews, or on location somewhere. You don't have to jump in with both feet and then ask what should've been pre-purchase questions later...

Do you habitually blindly throw money at something at the idea of what it could be, rather than the reality of what it currently is?

Also Stern have got zero incentive to spend money on code development

when they already have your money, and that will never change so long as people buy every new pin they churn out sight unseen simply because it's the new hotness.

Cold, hard truths I'm afraid, but truths nonetheless.

I for one bought the game because I have a lot of fun playing it, as do my family and friends. Would love to see the code integrated a little more into the Munsters story line, but that would be icing on the cake, a cake I already enjoy eating.

I think the issue is that in general Stern has a poor track record of releasing machines with complete code so people have been conditioned to buy a non complete machine and expect it to be finished up as time goes on. The only problem is that some of the guys doing code will go back and finish the game and others don't.

What will eventually happen is that sales will be affected and there will be a trend of poor sales of pins that are coded by guys with poor track records of delivering complete and enjoyable code.

It's not really like the guys who are buying the LE's have the option to see a completed game before they have to put their money down on them. So there has to be a certain amount of trust there on the part of the consumer that Stern is going to deliver a fun to play machine eventually.

Some reasonable additions for Munsters that I would suggest if Stern asked me:

Eddie Awards:
* Every 4 Loops - Light Eddie Super Jackpot if unlit (unchanged.)
* 8 Loops - Super Loops. 2x spinner value for 20 seconds. Right loop extends the timer by a small amount.
* 12 Loops - Moonlight Madness. Play a game of tag with Eddie!
Two ball Multiball. Orange lit Eddie shot moves from left to right and back across the major targets on a 3 second timer.
Hit a lit Eddie shot to light both loops for collectible Moonlight Madness jackpots for 10 seconds. Hit the moving Eddie shot to relight jackpots after they are collected or the timer expires. Eddie must be "tagged" an extra time for every 4 Moonlight Madness jackpots collected.

Marilyn Awards:
* 2 - Random Super Feature (unchanged.)
* 4 - Light Marilyn Super Jackpot (unchanged) + Random Super Feature (unchanged?)
* 6 - Random Super Feature (unchanged.)
* 8 - Marilyn Madness. Show off those combos!
Two ball Multiball. Hitting the Marilyn ramp will light a Marilyn Madness Jackpot as a combo shot on the left ramp. The Marilyn ramp must be hit an extra time for every 4 Marilyn Madness jackpots collected.

Level 3 for all five main characters.
Level 3 Munster Madness - Munster Mayhem!
* Timed 90 second 6-ball multiball of nonstop chaos with everything lit.

I don't disagree with anything you've said there, and the notion of buying something that is released unfinished is certainly something not unique to Stern or indeed to pinball.

But, again, you don't have to buy an LE. If you really like Munsters, fair enough, but buying the LE of something because it's LE, under pressure and forsaking whatever due diligence you'd normally do is just playing into the hands of Stern and other companies who do this sort of thing. My advice simply would be not to buy the most expensive version of something unless you are really a huge fan of the theme (in which case the code depth is somewhat academic).

As a rule of thumb though paying 100% of the price of something and then expecting sea changes in how it plays is risky business.

No, haven’t actually taken delivery of it yet to be clear. Have a couple of months to sort the decision out.

One of these two statements must be wrong?

You will love.it, dont.worry about it because its a killer game. I can't stop playing mine.

Good luck with your letter, Tho I bet you will not receive a reply.
Falls on deaf ears!

Good news!

Thanks as I suppose your wishing luck paid off, as I received a reply this week. Yes actually got a reply and can only say I’m more positive about things.

Please more letters from everyone to:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

They are listening, but they need to know that many are sitting on the fence till software improves and want the improvements. We must be vigilant!

Reply indicating leaning towards more, but the demand for upgraded software has to be there on a title that is already selling very well without it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease for sure. Please do your part and email all the people above. Send my same letter if you wish. Won’t take much time to do so and will pay off is what I’ve been told.

I have not gotten any replies, do you mind sharing the verbiage they said in your letter. I 'd like to read in to what their intentions might be whether it's code enhancements or gentle stroke job

Hey...ain't nothin wrong with a gentle stroke job

True but at this price I'd like dinner and roses too

Sent an email to all of them, let's see what happens

I believe hypnotic trance, hence I placed the order.

But still think we should all try to make it better by soliciting deeper code for an already good title.

I would like to share it, but was told it’s being made “off the record”. So don’t want to spoil the connection by posting. Talked specifically about code.

Sending letters to all those concerned will get us where we all want on a good game to become great. If Stern understands there are many waiting in the wings with money in hand and all they have to do is sweeten the code, they’ll respond with deeper code. By giving Dwight more time to code the game. Money talks and everything else walks, as they say.

I even sent why you weren’t buying yet Wotto. Your whole “rinse and repeat” post. Lol

FWIW- I sent an email to all four guys about an hour ago. Already got a response from George! It was a nice email, bottom line of which said some games are designed on purpose to be less deep than others (appeals to larger audience), Munsters turning out to be a very popular game, and he felt it would be a popular game for many years. I must say, him taking the time to respond to my email after hours so quickly is impressive. And while Munsters may never be an ultra-deep game, they seem open to considering what they hear from their customers.

I keep telling you guys to boycott Stern's games until they start supplying them with more completed code....and then finally eventually providing finished code. So Stern never does it, and people keep buying them. So stop whining about it and bitch with your wallets.
I am sorry if that sounds cold, but the facts speak for themselves.

Did you point them here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/munsters-code-suggestions-for-dwight

i would just sell it, cut your losses and dont look back. win some lose some. this was supposed to be a very special pin and it really isnt. people seriously have to start playing new pins before buying them. i played munsters pro and i did not like it so i didnt buy one. glad i played it first. saved my self some big bucks.
you are the same people that go to harbor freight with 10 coupons and to get the 50 cent freebie yet spend over 5000 on a pin without ever putting a hand on one. doesnt make sense.

Respect your opinion but disagree entirely. Munsters is a good game now, just needs some more love.

Here is my response to Stern’s response:

“Glad to hear Munsters is selling well. Confident it would sell even better if Stern would give us more in the way of show content within the Munsters series, that keeps us in the home environment coming back for more. Just like Batman does. I never hear anyone complaining saying Batman doesn’t have enough to keep people interested.

The main issue is a feeling of rinse repeat on Munsters. For example, if we could have a mode where Lilly’s show material were incorporated it would be nice. She is almost non existent show wise in the game.

Herman driving Eddies go cart could be easily be used in dragula mode. Marilyn’s dates jumping fences and she thinking because it’s her mode. Honestly this game deserves this kind of experience, not just depth.

My family and I love our Batman table and want that same love for what you’ve designed for Munsters layout. Munsters is one of the best shooting tables ever in our opinion. It’s only the code that doesn’t measure up yet. Please give it some more love and time with a great deal more use of show material and modes. I know Dwight can do it if Stern will give him the time. We love the depth and modes of our Star Wars LE table that Dwight coded. No we don’t reach the DS too often, but that’s just fine and that’s exactly what keeps us coming back for more. Munsters really needs that type of depth to become an all time classic. Surely hoping Stern agrees.

From what I hear from all my friends, they’d jump in hook line and sinker if Dwight was to code it that way. Just as Lyman did for Batman. Munsters deserves that type of treatment. Would you please discuss this with the gang? A mainly jackpot focus of the Munsters is a disservice to us the fans of the series. Munsters would be so much more fun if focus was on the show, rather than just “jackpots”.

I’ve never made a request like this or get involved in coding requests.

With extra depth and show/game added material experience for Munsters, I can almost guarantee Stern will see huge monetary benefits for years to come on Munsters. Out of all the games Stern makes, this license deserves that kind of treatment. While X-Men and other similar games will be forgotten by most, the Munsters won’t be. Over 50 years later, we all still love it, it’s a classic!

Appreciate your effort and so hoping Stern will give the extra care this game needs.
Kind regards,”

We shouldn’t give up on asking Stern to do like Batman nearly 3 years later, creating more code for an even better experience. People keep saying it’s Lyman versus Dwight, but it isn’t. If Stern gives Dwight the time he can do it even better. It’s up to Stern if they will listen to what we all want. We’ll keep spending our money in other future titles if they’ll do it for the Munsters experience. Munsters is that level of a license/title. Just name a better all around license now or rumored in the future?

Im not whining or bitching at all. I couldn't be happier with this game. I have some pretty sweet games in my collection and i love this game and literally cant stop playing it.

Or pumping it.

What he said . Depth of game play would just be icing but what the game really needs is better theme integration - give us the WHOLE Munsters experience ; more clips and more call outs / audio files ( of course more modes to use all those extra clips in would be best ) . It doesn’t need to be the deepest game ever - just needs to immerse us into the Munsters world . Otherwise what’s the point of using the theme to begin with ? For the record , I own it and love it . I have a lot of fun in this game but it deserves more . And so do we .

Open letter to Stern ;
Dear sirs ,
You are on the verge of greatness with the Munsters pin . Why have you stopped after only doing 66-75 % of the job ? The game is stunningly beautiful and shoots great ! With some polish it will easily go down as one of the all time greats . Isnt that alone enough motivation to go the extra mile ? If not then surely you’ve read the threads where many have stated they’d pull the trigger if only you’d give that little extra that this theme deserves . Between the promise of more sales AND producing a machine that will be loved and revered for years to come by the very people you serve and whom sustain your business how can you NOT answer the call ? Thank you .
Sincerrly ,
A Paying Customer

Lies! you're on here too much talking about how much you enjoy playing it to actually have time to play it :O)

update to emails sent, just got second response from Stern employee, said he would pass along suggestions to the Munsters 'team', and, he suggested they are working on updates....

Will be emailing later today myself, Munsters would have been an instant buy from me but the whole LE being colour slowed me down initially, since the colour premium came out I’ve been looking for an excuse to rush out and grab one but the code is the reason I’m on hold.

In my head I had this game pegged to have the kinda theme integration (not necessarily as deep gameplay wise) as BM66 but it’s fallen short of that by some way and the fact Lily is a throw away mode being my fav character is a big no no! Hopefully Stern sort the code and TimeBandit can make those uni targets drops or summit and this game would be pure awesomeness specially sat next to my BM66.

Sorry man but you're just being placated by customer service.

They want a list of people who would consider buying it if the code was deeper? Like, that's it? No letters of intent or anything else actually binding? Ok I'd buy it if the code was deeper. Zero commitment from my end.

(I wouldn't, but if you just want a +1 for your cause what the hell)

Stern won't actually know how many people would follow through on their commitment to buy it, of course.

Also, here's a thought, what about the people who bought it BECAUSE it is shallow and accessible? Sucks to be them I suppose.

The "already selling well" comment tells you all you need to know.

They sold the shit out of GB and almost 3 yrs later we are still waiting for a promised code update. Love that game too BUT....

I really like my Munsters pin as it is, it kicks my ass scoring wise like no other and its a solid F ing game.

That said, I've learned my lesson, yes finally, I will NEVER buy another Stern pinball machine unless Lyman Sheets is doing the code.

I don't care whatever the F they say or promise, that's it.

So you can send tons of email requests begging that Dwight and Stern makes Munsters better and deeper coded and i could care less if they ever do.

Bottom line, again, in the FUTURE, its only in "LYMAN WE TRUST".

So that means its possible that Elvira3 will be next for me. Makes it easy, Stern has done it to themselves.

Ditto for me too. I love GB and the Munsters, but only new Stern for me will be with Lyman code.

Assuming Munsters code doesn’t get an overhaul, Elvira may be my last Stern game. I may look at other games but can’t think of any themes Stern would do that I’d consider and I’d be very wary of any game not coded by Lyman. And I’m just ignoring anything by Dwight unless I’m OK with the code at time of purchase. Sad, but if Stern doesn’t take code seriously I’m not going to take them seriously.

In short, and put simply....DS has cost Stern and Distos a boatload of extra income. There is no doubt of that.

Y’all are complaining about Munsters code like the ball has been completely dropped. Disappointed in the codes current state.
Come on guys and gals, this game has literally only been on the market since February for the most part. Early April if you purchased a Premium, so were talking 2-3 months now.

Have you not learned from how many years now on pinside that most all games receive several updates weeks, months, years after they’ve been released?

Seriously look back at TWD, Kiss, xMen, WPT, Metallica and most especially BM66 and look how much better those games turned out. It happened... it will happen, but you’ve got to have patience and know it won’t happen overnight.

Can’t compare Munsters to BM66 - Stern was very clear at announce (Expo) that Batman code would take a long time but it would not be finished until Lyman was happy.

As for Munsters - Dwight all but said right after release that the code was done. It’s already at 1.0 - Stern’s new convention for “feature complete”.

Munsters isn’t happening overnight because it’s almost certainly not happening at all. If the recent email from Stern are to be believed, they are happy with Munsters sales. If so, no incentive to invest resources in reworking the code.

Lyman

Lonnie, Tanio

Lonnie, Waison

Keith

Lyman

Lyman

See any Dwight machines on your list (though he did help on Keith's WPT)? No? Well, that's because Dwight has a bad reputation of leaving his code unpolished and buggy (see: Ghostbusters, Game of Thrones). There would be more hope for Munsters if A> Dwight didn't have a rep and B> Dwight hadn't said on the record he considers Munsters mostly done instead of in need of a complete serious overhaul.

Using Lyman machines as 50% of your stated examples and Dwight machines as 0% of your examples doesn't really help your Munsters thesis.

So, yeah, Munsters code is poor and literally about as wide and deep as the initial terrible Batman '66 software. And it's a big (REALLY BIG) gamble betting it will get the overhaul it needs. If you like it as-is, great. But don't bet on or suggest Lyman level improvement on a Dwight game - it's a losing gamble.

Munsters was never designed or intended to be like Batman and never will be. Shallow rules does not mean a game is inherently bad or not fun!

I understand people are disappointed they didn't get a Batman level of depth here, but that isn't what Borg/Sullivan were aiming for.

Some side modes and more theme integration seems like a reasonable request. A complete overhaul is not realistic and not needed. The game is fun as designed. It just needs a little boost.

Iron Man is another Borg title that is not especially deep, but it is FUN. Munsters is one-note and just boring in a very short period of time, even for n00bs (as evidenced by how fast the route earnings here and other places fell off a cliff). The key problem is not breadth or depth (though more of both would be welcome) but the lack of FUN.

You sure about that?
Dwight coded Ghostbusters. And that game without a doubt was one of our very best selling games.