(Topic ID: 240540)

Munsters. worst code ever? probably

By busa32927

4 years ago


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#801 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I dunno, I've always found it kind of amusing to see the downvotes, it means they're reading my posts, and meanwhile I don't see a thing they have to say.
If you're getting abusive PMs then report him, there's no excuse for that nonsense. I might have hypothetically ignored a certain poster ages ago, and my life is better for it. Do as you will, but I recommend not wasting your time with some people.

Oh, I've totally moved on from this particular ego-driven idiot (which is a badly-disguised shill account for a much better-known senior pinsider), but it was interesting that they found cracks in the ignore system. Once I deleted the last PM from him, he had no way to PM me, and I do just think "wow, no life" when I see his serial downvotes (easy to spot as he's 99.9% of the time the only downvote on a post). Robin's aware of the cracks now.

#802 4 years ago

Who is the shill?

Who is the senior pinsider?

#803 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Spot on. Theme integration ala BM66 is a no brainer for this game
Several good clips on the match sequence, it’s like they just dropped in some of what’s leftover and called it a day
I’m hopeful for much more integration of video regardless of code

I would be a buyer if they do

#804 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I would be a buyer if they do

I wish potential buyers like you and JFH would tell your distributor and email as many people as possible over at Stern.

#805 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I wish potential buyers like you and JFH would tell your distributor and email as many people as possible over at Stern.

I’ve made it very clear to both, but I’m just one guy. But, like most things, the people that will speak out on an issue are typically a fraction of the people that feel the same way.

Who know how many potential sales it would take to move the needle at Stern. Hundreds? Thousands? But whatever the number, Stern has already lost some percentage of those potential sales as those with limited space and/or funds move on to consider newer games.

#806 4 years ago

I hope Stern isnt looking at this with the Newspaper mentality of who cares we will make another one and people will keep buying it. Its not difficult decision to make the code better. It is the admittance of ... oh yeah umm sorry we totally missed the mark.

#807 4 years ago
Quoted from busa32927:

I hope Stern isnt looking at this with the Newspaper mentality of who cares we will make another one and people will keep buying it. Its not difficult decision to make the code better. It is the admittance of ... oh yeah umm sorry we totally missed the mark.

Gary said on video that he could sell a box of lights with (I think it was Star Wars? Don't remember.) the game name on it. So, uh, that's the mentality.

#808 4 years ago
Quoted from busa32927:

I hope Stern isnt looking at this with the Newspaper mentality of who cares we will make another one and people will keep buying it. Its not difficult decision to make the code better. It is the admittance of ... oh yeah umm sorry we totally missed the mark.

Stern doesn’t even issue Service Bulletins anymore (as far as I can tell). Once upon a time, when they had an issue, they would issue really detailed Service Bulletins. I don’t think they issued one Service Bulletin on IMDN! And the Premium/LE’s had a boatload of issues.

If they don’t do Mea Culpa’s for the mechanical issues, I don’t believe they will do it for software.

#809 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I’ve made it very clear to both, but I’m just one guy. But, like most things, the people that will speak out on an issue are typically a fraction of the people that feel the same way.

I also made it very clear that I was a 100% buyer who is sitting on the fence and some small additions would 100% get my money.
They didnt even reply to acknowledge the email had been recieved and/ or even a quick "thanks- appreciate feedback' type of reply.

To me - thats arrogance.
I , like many many many other humans get hundreds of emails a day - and answer them all - regardless.
Its good customer service to do so.

The arrogance ( or whatever you want to call a non reply ) of no reply actually pushes me just a little further away from giving Stern $$ for this title

#810 4 years ago
Quoted from Wotto:

I also made it very clear that I was a 100% buyer who is sitting on the fence and some small additions would 100% get my money.
They didnt even reply to acknowledge the email had been recieved and/ or even a quick "thanks- appreciate feedback' type of reply.
To me - thats arrogance.
I , like many many many other humans get hundreds of emails a day - and answer them all - regardless.
Its good customer service to do so.
The arrogance ( or whatever you want to call a non reply ) of no reply actually pushes me just a little further away from giving Stern $$ for this title

Well, the sad thing is Stern has a person who they pay to read and respond to emails. So they should totally have a boiler plate response.

I run and own my own indie comic book publishing company. Its a small business, but it takes in more revenue than my 9-5 job pays me in a year... Again... I don't get to keep that money... But, I'm only one person and while it might sometimes take me a day or two to respond to an email(I go on vacation or forget to check somedays), but I always respond. And while I don't always agree with the suggestions people make, I thank them for their time and business, and tell them I'll consider it always.

With that being said though. I do know it can get old dealing with people who always think their ideas are better. Regardless, that is never an excuse to be rude and not respond. My business is a small one, and I need each and every sale I can get. But, when you think about it... Pinball is a small business too... I mean... There is a reason why Williams went into making slots and other gambling machines. More money, and more consistent money. Less hand to mouth living.

If a pinball machine from stern flops, it'll really hurt their bottom line. They have a model that really is feast of famine. Both Williams 2000 machines sold better than a lot of the so called classic machines. Like AFM, MM, SS, MB... Same reason why Konami went into slots too. Video game development is too dicey. Spend all that money on what you hope to be a hit, but then gets trashed in the reviews and gets trashed in sales... Look at Days Gone... Very fun and very good game, but got unfair reviews. So my point is... The pinball industry while growing... Is still a niche industry and still nowhere near the glory days of the past. So I agree... It doesn't hurt for stern to always respond.

They don't have to agree with you or anyone else, but they should always respond.

#811 4 years ago
Quoted from Wotto:

I also made it very clear that I was a 100% buyer who is sitting on the fence and some small additions would 100% get my money.
They didnt even reply to acknowledge the email had been recieved and/ or even a quick "thanks- appreciate feedback' type of reply.
To me - thats arrogance.
I , like many many many other humans get hundreds of emails a day - and answer them all - regardless.
Its good customer service to do so.
The arrogance ( or whatever you want to call a non reply ) of no reply actually pushes me just a little further away from giving Stern $$ for this title

I'd cut them some slack on this. There is no way Stern can win in the email action, IMO.

1) They do not acknowledge receipt. Then you might feel slighted for the canned answer.

2) They reply and say Thank You and no more. And you might think well thanks for nothing.

3) They may reply and say we are looking into this. For some people that is all it would take and the rumors would start. It is hard to kill a rumor and most times it is a brutal battle to even try.

What you are talking about is not really customer service, IMO. I have good response from Stern with my contact with tech support on my LE of which I am not the original owner. I am being honored with warranty status. I have no complaints with customer service.

Surely, Stern cannot be blind and deaf to what it being talked about here.

No offense with what I am about to say, but when someone makes a veiled threat, or reference if you will, that "if you do this then I will do this or that, but if you don't then well....." is not something a company can act on without a lot of risk. History is replete with the populace telling a company they will buy something if it was just produced. The company answers the call and makes the product and sales do not happen.

It is a chicken or egg thing. If all the fence sitters decided to buy and all the current owners were interested in a new code for what they already bought, Stern might reward everybody. Or, as someone else has mentioned, since you have already bought, Stern has nothing more to gain by expending the effort for code revamps.

========

I understand why you feel slighted, but I do not think Stern is going to respond to anybody but their distributors about something like this.

#812 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I’ve made it very clear to both, but I’m just one guy. But, like most things, the people that will speak out on an issue are typically a fraction of the people that feel the same way.
Who know how many potential sales it would take to move the needle at Stern. Hundreds? Thousands? But whatever the number, Stern has already lost some percentage of those potential sales as those with limited space and/or funds move on to consider newer games.

Yeah I don’t get it.

Maybe they just said screw it and the resources are going to pins B C and D

Like GB code

Like I said before, Lyman only for me now if I buy another Stern

Maybe DR will care and actually follow through

#813 4 years ago

I just figure that not ONE person on planet Earth would fail to respond in any way to somebody that was saying " Hey, I have 12k if ya want it".

#814 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yeah I don’t get it.
Maybe they just said screw it and the resources are going to pins B C and D
Like GB code
Like I said before, Lyman only for me now if I buy another Stern
Maybe DR will care and actually follow through

Lyman is great, but he takes years to get his games complete. Are we ever going to see an oi mania mode?

Tanio is turning out to be top notch. Looking forward to his next pin.

Elwin writes most his rules for the coder, looking forward to seeing how his next game pans out codewise, I imagine it’ll be just as epic as IMDN.

Verdict is still out with timballs but he sounds open minded, and I really enjoyed his input and ideas he added to IMDN and DP. We’ll have to re-evaluate BK3 in about 6 mos or so.

Dwight’s code for SW is one of the most original and coolest unorthodox codes in pinball. Really fascinating. Too bad he’s getting a bad wrap from pinside on Munsters; it’s really a fun edge of your seat game. I’d never own one, but that’s not because of the rules, far from it actually. All in all Dwight takes chances and tries to make his next game different from his last.

The MXV factor. Having Mike being a game tester and rules support developer has been huge for stern. So glad he’s there supporting every release.

All in all stern really is putting out some great stuff with an epic quality support team. But if you’re looking to buy every title right at release, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

#815 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well lets see, you call people babies, dumb, morons, idiots, you say your buddy bought a Munsters LE for 6500, etc etc etc. Maybe that's true but a Munsters LE is worth far morr than 6500 and you know it. I cant even list all of the crazy stuff that you say on here but some of the things you say sounds like it is coming from someone who isnt in their right mind and if you dont believe me just look at your 37.6% thumbs up/down ratio.
Do you think all of those people are giving you downvotes just to be a dick to you? Some are maybe but not all. They are doing it because of all the crazy off the wall shit that you post. The only thing you have said that you are right about is when you called me a clown.
Its not hard to be accepted here but if you keep calling people dumb, stupid, morons, and idiots you never will be i guarantee it. Some of the people that you are calling dumb and morons are doctors and lawyers, and there are many other common people like myself that are pretty smart on here as well if you can believe that or not.
You just need to chill and think about some of the things that you write. You arent going to like every one here and everyone isn't going to like you either but there are some good people on here. Ive met quite a few people on here that i now consider to be VERY good friends of mine. You can do the same, you just have to respect people and stop the name calling.
Oh and by the way im not the speaker of the house, just the speaker of the Munsters threads.

Nice retort Who-Dey !

I kinda think of drfrightner as a master level troll monster. His insults come off more to me as wacky schtick, and I giggle about the intensity of his posts. All in the same, sometimes I agree with some of his points, some not, but his verbiage is always akin to a blunt, bloody hammer to the head. He's the Doctor of Fright for Christ's sake!

#816 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Lyman is great, but he takes years to get his games complete. Are we ever going to see an oi mania mode?
Tanio is turning out to be top notch. Looking forward to his next pin.
Elwin writes most his rules for the coder, looking forward to seeing how his next game pans out codewise, I imagine it’ll be just as epic as IMDN.
Verdict is still out with timballs but he sounds open minded, and I really enjoyed his input and ideas he added to IMDN and DP. We’ll have to re-evaluate BK3 in about 6 mos or so.
Dwight’s code for SW is one of the most original and coolest unorthodox codes in pinball. Really fascinating. Too bad he’s getting a bad wrap from pinside on Munsters; it’s really a fun edge of your seat game. I’d never own one, but that’s not because of the rules, far from it actually. All in all Dwight takes chances and tries to make his next game different from his last.
The MXV factor. Having Mike being a game tester and rules support developer has been huge for stern. So glad he’s there supporting every release.
All in all stern really is putting out some great stuff with an epic quality support team. But if you’re looking to buy every title right at release, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

I'll say this... I don't think the problem with the munsters is solely the code... I remember being super excited for the pin. I'm a big fan of the munsters. Watched them when I was a kid, teenager, and still watch them today. I remember watching the twitch streams being excited about the machine. Thinking that the code had some really cool ideas. Thinking the layout looked pretty fun and had a good amount of both toys and features.

But... The game to me... Just doesn't feel good. The lower playfield which is a great idea and looks really cool, just really feels cheap and isn't exciting to shoot. That's just how I feel.
So then you say... Play the pro... Okay... But, when I play the pro... I feel like I'm missing a feature. I don't like how they made up for the lack of Grandpa's lab how they did.
Now, I do hope like Deadpool I will change my mind. But, I had a few decent games on it, and I just haven't gotten into it. Now that won't make me stop from playing this game. I will always feed it a few quarters if I find it in the wild.

One thing I will say that also might hurt my view. And I hate to say this, because I think Stern gets unfairly maligned in this category. But, the animations on Munsters can be really bad at times. The drive in end of ball animation. Its a cool idea... But, its cheap. I've made similar animations in the past with my business, and I think they needed more variety with the car models. Just a little bit more... That would have made it seem less bargain basement cartoon. The lilly animation is way too creepy looking. And I think they should have just used clips from the show and not that creepy animation of her.

The rest I don't have a problem with. And mind you. I think Stern does a very good job with their animations and they're getting better with each pin released. Iron Maiden had some so so ones, but also some amazing ones.
And I just love Black Knight Swords of Rage animations... Think they hit a home run with that... And Deadpools are amazing as well.

So, I think its a lot of small things that added up to make the Munsters underwhelming. And I don't think its a flop. It has too much cool stuff on it to be a crap machine... But, I think its more like a base on ball or single. Then a homerun. And I think Iron Maiden is a homerun and Dead Pool is like a triple. And I think Sword Of Rage is another ball blasted deep... Will it be a homerun... I want to play it again to see how I still feel. But, I really liked the pro. Fast, fast fast!!!!!!
Sorry for my long ramble.

#817 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Lyman is great, but he takes years to get his games complete. Are we ever going to see an oi mania mode?
Tanio is turning out to be top notch. Looking forward to his next pin.
Elwin writes most his rules for the coder, looking forward to seeing how his next game pans out codewise, I imagine it’ll be just as epic as IMDN.
Verdict is still out with timballs but he sounds open minded, and I really enjoyed his input and ideas he added to IMDN and DP. We’ll have to re-evaluate BK3 in about 6 mos or so.
Dwight’s code for SW is one of the most original and coolest unorthodox codes in pinball. Really fascinating. Too bad he’s getting a bad wrap from pinside on Munsters; it’s really a fun edge of your seat game. I’d never own one, but that’s not because of the rules, far from it actually. All in all Dwight takes chances and tries to make his next game different from his last.
The MXV factor. Having Mike being a game tester and rules support developer has been huge for stern. So glad he’s there supporting every release.
All in all stern really is putting out some great stuff with an epic quality support team. But if you’re looking to buy every title right at release, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

I agree with you SKB and you are buddies with Elwin so I’ll put him into my future buy list as well

And no, I’m not buying every release, that’s the point, picky picky time

#818 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I agree with you SKB and you are buddies with Elwin so I’ll put him into my future buy list as well
And no, I’m not buying every release, that’s the point, picky picky time

Yes; this is the era of being picky for huo ownership. And no, short of watching his videos and forum posting we’re not buddies with Elwin, only met him once before i knew he was lol.

#819 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Yes; this is the era of being picky for huo ownership. And no, short of watching his videos and forum posting we’re not buddies with Elwin, only met him once before i knew he was lol.

Well he is on the list too. I thought TWD review/play was you guys. I'm no Elwin but i conquered that Beast after a year!!!

#820 4 years ago

Got a question. Some of you keep saying there are a lot of people waiting in wings who would be buyers only if Stern would address the code.

Can anybody put numbers on how many reluctant buyers are standing by?

Thanks

#821 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Got a question. Some of you keep saying there are a lot of people waiting in wings who would be buyers only if Stern would address the code.
Can anybody put numbers on how many reluctant buyers are standing by?
Thanks

It's not just the current games.

It's games like GB.

So the "reluctance" is palpable and growing going forward

When you are asked to pay a shit load of $$$ for a HUO game the "code" better deliver OR

It will be a slow/fast erosion of support.

It's coming

#822 4 years ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

I'll say this... I don't think the problem with the munsters is solely the code... I remember being super excited for the pin. I'm a big fan of the munsters. Watched them when I was a kid, teenager, and still watch them today. I remember watching the twitch streams being excited about the machine. Thinking that the code had some really cool ideas. Thinking the layout looked pretty fun and had a good amount of both toys and features.
But... The game to me... Just doesn't feel good. The lower playfield which is a great idea and looks really cool, just really feels cheap and isn't exciting to shoot. That's just how I feel.
So then you say... Play the pro... Okay... But, when I play the pro... I feel like I'm missing a feature. I don't like how they made up for the lack of Grandpa's lab how they did.
Now, I do hope like Deadpool I will change my mind. But, I had a few decent games on it, and I just haven't gotten into it. Now that won't make me stop from playing this game. I will always feed it a few quarters if I find it in the wild.
One thing I will say that also might hurt my view. And I hate to say this, because I think Stern gets unfairly maligned in this category. But, the animations on Munsters can be really bad at times. The drive in end of ball animation. Its a cool idea... But, its cheap. I've made similar animations in the past with my business, and I think they needed more variety with the car models. Just a little bit more... That would have made it seem less bargain basement cartoon. The lilly animation is way too creepy looking. And I think they should have just used clips from the show and not that creepy animation of her.
The rest I don't have a problem with. And mind you. I think Stern does a very good job with their animations and they're getting better with each pin released. Iron Maiden had some so so ones, but also some amazing ones.
And I just love Black Knight Swords of Rage animations... Think they hit a home run with that... And Deadpools are amazing as well.
So, I think its a lot of small things that added up to make the Munsters underwhelming. And I don't think its a flop. It has too much cool stuff on it to be a crap machine... But, I think its more like a base on ball or single. Then a homerun. And I think Iron Maiden is a homerun and Dead Pool is like a triple. And I think Sword Of Rage is another ball blasted deep... Will it be a homerun... I want to play it again to see how I still feel. But, I really liked the pro. Fast, fast fast!!!!!!
Sorry for my long ramble.

The lower playfield is the best lower playfield in pinball history and it is a lot of fun. The flippers need to be set to soft though ir it doesn't feel right. The Munsters is a great pin. I am surrounded with great games in my basement and Munsters is the only one i want to play right now. I cant get enough of it.

#823 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

The lower playfield is the best lower playfield in pinball history and it is a lot of fun. The flippers need to be set to soft though ir it doesn't feel right. The Munsters is a great pin. I am surrounded with great games in my basement and Munsters is the only one i want to play right now. I cant get enough of it.

That is saying alot coming from a guy that doesn't like upper/lower pf's.

Glad you are loving it Terry, so am i

#824 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That is saying alot coming from a guy that doesn't like upper/lower pf's.
Glad you are loving it Terry, so am i

I remember the very first game i played and when the lower playfield got activated i thought to myself......this is horrible, feels cheap and is no fun at all. I thought i made a huge mistake. I set the flippers to soft as others suggested and it immediately felt better. Since then it has just kept growing on me and i really enjoy shooting it now because it takes some skill and the shots actually mean something.

#825 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Can anybody put numbers on how many reluctant buyers are standing by?

That's a pretty hard thing to do. However I've heard from several people that the code is holding them back. Same for me, went for a used pro instead of a NIB Premium/LE.

#826 4 years ago

No way Munsters could be the worst code ever.
Surely that title belongs to Thunderbirds.

#827 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

...Too bad he’s getting a bad wrap from pinside on Munsters...

i'm quite sure the prob is not Munsters only... but more that Munsters is added to the Ghostbusters bad code mood... :/

#828 4 years ago

It surely doesn’t deserve the title of “worst code ever”. Maybe since Munsters is such a highly anticipated theme, being a contemporary of Batman, along with today’s high prices, people expect a great deal more for their hard earned money.

It is fun and shoots so well, but most think the possibilities of a 70+ show TV series could be so much more and should be. If it were one movie, that might be far different as far as expectations.

People want to see their favorite characters entwined amongst game play. In more of a story driven manner that reflects the show, not just collecting jackpots. Give us that and it’ll sell like hot cakes! Munster’s hits on all other cylinders and would become Sterns best seller of all time, if they’d hone in the code more. It’s common sense. That’s all people are wanting here.

#829 4 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

No way Munsters could be the worst code ever.

The code is actually very good and anyone who says any different doesn't understand the gameplay. I just think people want a little more to do. I would agree with someone if they say "this code is too shallow" but not with someone who says "this game has the worst code ever." I wouldn't even agree with anyone that says "the code on this game sucks" because what is there is very fun.

#830 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

The code is actually very good and anyone who says any different doesn't understand the gameplay. I just think people want a little more to do. I would agree with someone if they say "this code is too shallow" but not with someone who says "this game has the worst code ever." I wouldn't even agree with anyone that says "the code on this game sucks" because what is there is very fun.

I don't mind Munsters at all, it's pretty cool.
It's just not a game/theme that rings my bells enough to buy one.

#831 4 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

I don't mind Munsters at all, it's pretty cool.
It's just not a game/theme that rings my bells enough to buy one.

That i can definitely understand. The theme is not for everyone. No theme is.

#832 4 years ago

Wait...who doesn’t like Herman, Grandpa, Lilly, Eddie and Marilyn?

Not to forget spot either...

#833 4 years ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Wait...who doesn’t like Herman, Grandpa, Lilly, Eddie and Marilyn?
Not to forget spot either...

The people that are young and haven't heard of them lol. My gf was telling this young couple about 25 years old about my pinball machines and told them i had a Munsters coming and they were sitting there looking at her with kind of a half smile on their faces and nodding their heads like they knew what she was talking about and i said they probably don't even know who the hell The Munsters is. I looked at them and said do you know who she is talking about? They both started laughing and said no idea.

I just looked at my gf and said God we're old and shook my head. Its kind of funny but its also kind of depressing. On the way home we was talking about it and i said hell they probably don't even know what the hell a pinball machine is. I should have asked them. Lol

#834 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

The code is actually very good and anyone who says any different doesn't understand the gameplay. I just think people want a little more to do. I would agree with someone if they say "this code is too shallow"

Of course it doesn’t have the worst code ever. That is hyperbole from the OP. But you say the code is “very good” and would agree that it is “too shallow”. That makes no sense. Besides you who believes code that is too shallow is very good (or even a good thing)?

The Munsters code was made shallow on purpose apparently to be more approachable for location players. Who exactly? The 25 year old couple you mention that has no idea of who The Munsters are? They are likely to be in the age group for most locations but if they can’t relate to the theme it won’t matter much no matter how “approachable” the code is.

Stern wants to maintain the fiction that operator sales are the still the driver in the industry. Operators care about return on investment. Period. People who don’t know Munsters might play once or twice but aren’t coming back. People who do say “that’s it?”. They may play a few more games just to hear the music and see a few clips but there is nothing to bring them back if they don’t like the one trick pony collect stacked jackpots ruleset (which is a strange idea anyway since most for whom this approachable code was designed for don’t have a clue that the way to do well is to use the zap button to not collect jackpots).

If you have a deep game it can still be approachable and fun for a location player. Maybe they never see all of the game (can you say Wizard of Oz?). But a shallow game is very rarely going to be enough for the segment of the market that LEs (and a good percentage of Premiums) are sold to - what Gary likes to call “the enthusiasts”. For them “shallow” <> “very good”

#835 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Of course it doesn’t have the worst code ever. That is hyperbole from the OP. But you say the code is “very good” and would agree that it is “too shallow”. That makes no sense. Besides you who believes code that is too shallow is very good (or even a good thing)?
The Munsters code was made shallow on purpose apparently to be more approachable for location players. Who exactly? The 25 year old couple you mention that has no idea of who The Munsters are? They are likely to be in the age group for most locations but if they can’t relate to the theme it won’t matter much no matter how “approachable” the code is.
Stern wants to maintain the fiction that operator sales are the still the driver in the industry. Operators care about return on investment. Period. People who don’t know Munsters might play once or twice but aren’t coming back. People who do say “that’s it?”. They may play a few more games just to hear the music and see a few clips but there is nothing to bring them back if they don’t like the one trick pony collect stacked jackpots ruleset (which is a strange idea anyway since most for whom this approachable code was designed for don’t have a clue that the way to do well is to use the zap button to not collect jackpots).
If you have a deep game it can still be approachable and fun for a location player. Maybe they never see all of the game (can you say Wizard of Oz?). But a shallow game is very rarely going to be enough for the segment of the market that LEs (and a good percentage of Premiums) are sold to - what Gary likes to call “the enthusiasts”. For them “shallow” &lt;&gt; “very good”

Sorry but i disagree totally with you. Shallow code does not mean bad code. Is MM, MB, AFM, TAF, TOM, TOTAN etc bad games? They all have shallow code too but they are loved by everyone. I just said the code is shallow but what is there is good code amd its a lot of fun. I want more too believe me because this is the pride and joy of my collection so i want more more more. If that doesn’t happen though i will still always like this game. Im not disappointed at all but it would be the icing on the cake to bet a little more depth in the code.

#836 4 years ago

i agree that there should be a lot more to the code. munsters code is still shallow compared to MM, MB, AFM, TAF, TOM, and TOTAN. a great game is approachable by all and has enough for players. For the average person to spend 5 bucks on a game and will see everything it has to offer just isnt what the bar is at now. maybe in 1970 but falls short of any game or manufactures standard.

Gottlieb did it with surfin safari. going back to the basics. it didnt work out for them back then either. It would have been better if they didnt use Munsters as a theme at all. Called it anything but munsters. Then invest the resources in making a real munsters game.

all in all if its fun for you sure thats fine. my opinion is that it is a total waste of theme and is a called in effort. Far below every standard in DMD history of pinball.

10
#837 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

The Munsters code was made shallow on purpose apparently to be more approachable for location players. Who exactly? The 25 year old couple you mention that has no idea of who The Munsters are? They are likely to be in the age group for most locations but if they can’t relate to the theme it won’t matter much no matter how “approachable” the code is.

PROLOG

I get what you are saying here. But I am not entirely in agreement. I'm retired. I used to play pins when I was a kid but I never was any good. I had never heard of a pinball wizard until The Who hit the airwaves with the song all my friends loved. The big problem for me as a young kid was walking up to a pin, dropping my quarter, only to find it was down on a flipper or a pop bumper. Every once in a great while I would get that killer ball that would pull me back for another round of drain balls.

PHASE 1

But after I entered the military in the 1970 I was doing so many other things in life. Pinball was not one of them. Some time during 1977, a titty bar I was hanging out at had a Williams Satin Doll; I had a good time with SD but that was my last pin for a long time. After many no-pinball years, I was in position to play a new Williams Fire. I did not know what I was doing other than shooting hard and hoping for the best; I got some lucky shots in and enjoyed the play. Fire hit the streets in 1987 so I am talking 17 years of no pinball with exception of my mini-detour on SD for just a few games.

1987 to 2012 = 25 years. Several things happened. The internet. An Apple iMac. And I stumbled onto Pro Pinball and fell in love with Pro Pinball. Then You Tube hit the scene. And Craigslist. And then Visual Pinball.

I first saw there VPs on You Tube and was trying to figure out what was going on. It took me several months to figure it all out. And then I built a VP mini-cab. And then I bought a Bally Playboy for sale on Craigslist. And I kept learning about pinball. And then I discovered Pinside.

I started learning how to play pinball and develop flipper skills by playing my VP mini-pin and watching YT videos. Eventually, I got to liking one of the VP games so much that I went shopping for the real deal. I bought a classic Stern Big Game pin. I went chasing this pin because of all the YT videos showed me it was fast. I now have 5 classic Sterns in my house with 2 more that I am building. I also have a Robocop. I'm a speed freak and all of these pins first quality is they are fast. The Playboy got sold. My shopping list no longer included any EMs.

Sorry to bore you with all of the above but I'm trying to set the stage. My flipper skills are getting better but I am no Wizard and probably never will be. But I am sure having a good time.

Phase 2

I live in Wichita Kansas. I have family in Dallas. I make a trip to Dallas two or three times a year. I don't even remember how I discovered it, but in Oklahoma City there is an arcade called Cactus Jacks. Cactus Jacks is where I lost my virginity with all of the pins I was learning about on Pinside. MM CC, STTNG, Congo, MB, BSD, DW, WW, T2, LOTR, TWD, SW, ST, WOZ, Hobbit, Rob Zomie, Most Haunted, AC-DC, GB, MET, TNA, AFM, IM, IMDN, TZ, TAF, AS and a few more. Some I liked;Some I did not like. With each stop, I got a little better and my roll of quarters would last a little longer. Part of that was I learned which pins to avoid. On my shit list is BSD, IMDN, STTNG, and TWD. MM is OK. CC is meh. I finally got good enough that Like GB.

Anyway, on my way to TPF, I stopped and a Munsters Pro was on the floor. You can call it too easy. You can call it shallow. You can call it what ever the fuck you want, but it pushed my average flipper skill playing buttons. It was fast with short ball times. But, unlike BSD, it gave me a fair shake for my quarters. I had a ball.

At TPF, Marco had the floor loaded up with Munster Premiums. I stood in line to play. Several times. On my way home, I stopped at CJs again. This time AFM got one play and then Munsters got the rest of my quarter roll.

I am the world's original skinflint. A cheap bastard if there ever was. Buying this LE is so out of character for me. I look at this Munsters sitting in my game room and I still scratch my head in disbelief.

Sorry for getting carried away here. All of the above was to shed some light on weaker pinball player's point of view on Munsters.

So, here we are again.

Quoted from jfh:

The Munsters code was made shallow on purpose apparently to be more approachable for location players. Who exactly? The 25 year old couple you mention that has no idea of who The Munsters are? They are likely to be in the age group for most locations but if they can’t relate to the theme it won’t matter much no matter how “approachable” the code is.

Yes. One time while I was at CJs, an older couple was in walking around looking for something to play. They did not know much. I told them about AFM, MM, and TNA. TNA was a mistake for them. I wish Munsters would have been on the floor. With all of the flipper friendly shots, I think they would have had a good time.

SIDEBAR: A couple of years ago I was at the register to pay for my hamburger and a 60s year old woman was laying shit on the 18 year old girl at the register because the girl did not know who Bonnie and Clyde were. " YOU MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW WHO BONNIE AND CLYDE WERE ?!!!!" I wanted to tell the self righteous bitch that if it was not for the 50 year old movie with Beaty and Dunnaway that she would have no friggin clue as to who B & C were, either. I felt sorry for the girl. When my generation gets to be my age, we have to make sure we are not shaking our finger in somebody's face. No point in giving anybody a reason to wish the old farts would just shut up And I probably fail miserably

My point in all of this drivel is that I don't think the theme is going to matter all that much to some 25 year old average player going out for a good time. If he is like me he is going to be too busy watching the ball to be bothered see whatever is being pumped out on the video screen. And I don't think the theme will matter to a 25 year old Wizard.

This pin has good flipper action. And has some great pinball playing music that gets the blood flowing. That right ramp is killer. Get one fast Eddie loop boomeranging back at you. If you are an average player, what is not to like? If you are a wizard, other than the code, what is not to like?

That right ramp, one good Eddie Loop, and some good flipper action sold me. No matter how old an average player is, I just don't think theme will kill this pin. I could be wrong but this is what i am thinking.
=====================

I think retirees, as myself, are the sleeper market that Stern is looking for. We are not working. We have some cash. We don't feel like loading up the fishing poles and wasting gas to go to the lake only to find the fish are not biting and then being thankful they are not biting because we don't want the hassle of cleaning them. All of our friends are dying off---and I am sorry---but Arthur Murray dance studios and the senior centers don't cut it for some of us.

Pinball is an easy decision. Wake up, turn on the switch and you forget all about your lumbago Is it cold outside? Fire up the coffee pot and throw the switch. Is it hot outside? Ice up a Coke and throw the switch. Have you already seen every re-run on TV, or You Tube five times? Forget about it. Throw the switch. Bored and tired of looking out the window? Throw the switch.

If I am right on this retiree stuff, in about 10 years when we all started dying off, there are going to be some great pinball deals to be had for all of the young whipper snappers. Munsters might be a dime a dozen

But I digress. In fact, this entire post is a digression. If you have managed to read this far I applaud you.

For the better players that crave more of a challenge, I understand your frustration because it is a cool pin. I hope Stern heeds your call.

#838 4 years ago
Quoted from busa32927:

i agree that there should be a lot more to the code. munsters code is still shallow compared to MM, MB, AFM, TAF, TOM, and TOTAN. a great game is approachable by all and has enough for players. For the average person to spend 5 bucks on a game and will see everything it has to offer just isnt what the bar is at now. maybe in 1970 but falls short of any game or manufactures standard.
Gottlieb did it with surfin safari. going back to the basics. it didnt work out for them back then either. It would have been better if they didnt use Munsters as a theme at all. Called it anything but munsters. Then invest the resources in making a real munsters game.
all in all if its fun for you sure thats fine. my opinion is that it is a total waste of theme and is a called in effort. Far below every standard in DMD history of pinball.

There were 4 or 5 TOMs at TPF this year. I had been wanting to play one to see what is was all about. I got to play one that was well set up. Several times. If there was a way that the spinning buzz saw added to game play, I missed it. Out of the corner of my eye I got a look at the Magic Mirror in the back. Neither one of those magic tricks added to my game play.

I do not see the fascination the game play. The Magnetic Trunk? Eye Candy.

I can say I played a TOM.

#839 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Sorry but i disagree totally with you. Shallow code does not mean bad code. Is MM, MB, AFM, TAF, TOM, TOTAN etc bad games? They all have shallow code too but they are loved by everyone.

Those games have shallow code by today’s definition. When they came out most of those were considered pretty much as deep as you could get (maybe not TOM or TOTAN)

And I didn’t say shallow code was bad code. I was pointing out that you equated the Munsters shallow code with very good code.

#840 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I think retirees, as myself, are the sleeper market that Stern is looking for. We are not working. We have some cash.

...

If I am right on this retiree stuff, in about 10 years when we all started dying off, there are going to be some great pinball deals to be had for all of the young whipper snappers. Munsters might be a dime a dozen

...

If you have managed to read this far I applaud you.
For the better players that crave more of a challenge, I understand your frustration because it is a cool pin. I hope Stern heeds your call.

Well, I’m pretty much retired so I’m more retiree than whippersnapper.

I read the entire post and the backstory provides good context to why you have an LE. I get it. I love the shots and art (though not the LE). The Munsters should be a perfect fit for my collection. There are lots of people for whom the code is fine as is; I’m just not one of them. I’m not a great player. I play to have fun. Although Munsters belongs in my game room, I’m not going to buy a game that will annoy me every time I press ‘Start’ because the theme integration and variety of game play are so lacking.

I’m got giving up hope that I’ll use one of the autographed Pro or Premium translites I had autographed by Butch, Pat and the design team at TPF. (Munsters is the main reason I went this year), but I’m not holding my breath for more deserving code either.

#841 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Like I said before, Lyman only for me now if I buy another Stern

Ice you keep saying this, at some point your going to actually have to do this brother

#842 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Is MM, MB, AFM, TAF, TOM, TOTAN etc bad games? They all have shallow code too but they are loved by everyone

Because they are fun.

Ironman has System 11 level code. It’s awesome. Totally suits the theme. Totally suits the layout.

You don’t need layers of code or 147 different characters to choose from (in fact that’s exactly what you don’t need lol)

You need one thing. Well, two things.

1/ theme integration

2/ fun

rd

#843 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:Oklahoma City there is an arcade called Cactus Jacks

Pretty sure CJs is the best part of Oklahoma

#844 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Because they are fun.
Ironman has System 11 level code. It’s awesome. Totally suits the theme. Totally suits the layout.
You don’t need layers of code or 147 different characters to choose from (in fact that’s exactly what you don’t need lol)
You need one thing. Well, two things.
1/ theme integration
2/ fun
rd

and #3/ a 40x multiplier shot

#845 4 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Ice you keep saying this, at some point your going to actually have to do this brother

Live and learn brother...

Will try to live by it.......

New games for me are getting very selective.

#846 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Live and learn brother...
Will try to live by it.......
New games for me are getting very selective.

So the $12650 AUD question is "What is Lymans next game?"

#847 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

So the $12650 AUD question is "What is Lymans next game?"

Isn't he on Elvira 3?

#848 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

and #3/ a 40x multiplier shot

Nah - that’s stupid rulemaking IMO.

I much prefer the 2x combo shot, as seen in Star Trek, AS, Kiss, etc.

Rewards shot accuracy and forces you to shoot on the fly if you want the 2x shot. And if you’re a good/clever player, you can set shots up for a big collect. And get rewarded for good play.

OR the earned shot multipliers like BMTDK and Batman 66 etc.

OR earned timed 2x playfield like TWD

IMO to have any shot that is worth FOURTY TIMES the value is dumb. Hey, good on ya if you can pull that off consistently, but 99% of people will never be able to do it, so what’s the point? 2x combo multipliers are attainable by everyone, and promote better play.

Just my 2c.

rd

#849 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

IMO to have any shot that is worth FOURTY TIMES the value is dumb. Hey, good on ya if you can pull that off consistently, but 99% of people will never be able to do it, so what’s the point? 2x combo multipliers are attainable by everyone, and promote better play.
Just my 2c.
rd

Lighting both PF multipliers using Kitty with Mystery/Lilly/Herman activation can be done pretty easily (too easily, IMO) on Munsters. Stack that with the stacked super jackpots for a big super jackpot over and over. Boring.

#850 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Lyman is great, but he takes years to get his games complete. Are we ever going to see an oi mania mode?

Yes

Rob

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