But in this thread you agree about code https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbusters-final-code-update-wish-list-1/page/5 , Post 207 and 214,,,,, A little ass backward you think?

Munsters and its code offers two different things to two very different groups of people.

If your collection is all about you, your own personal enjoyment and your skills, I agree that the depth of code on this pin is not for you.

If you have friends that aren't pinheads but just casual players that enjoy coming over to play on a Friday or Saturday night, I don't think there's a better pin out there. My friends just can't get enough of it. I think that's pretty awesome. So I don't feel like it's a waste, on the contrary it makes my game nights so much fun.

Do I think it could be better? Sure, I think they need to integrate the theme more and create "special moments", but there's plenty of time to get there. For now I'm really enjoying it.

The title of this thread is ridiculous. Look through the top 300 on this site and you'll find far worse rules than Munsters...

Those same people you have over would enjoy Deadpool or another "easy to play, hard to master" pin with mature code that you can still enjoy when they're not there. There is no sense in having an expensive crippled pin just for the special case of non pinheads you have over being able to play it. There are PLENTY of great pins that non-pinheads and low-skill players can have a great time with.

This isn't just picking on Munsters. I dogged Deadpool for like 6 months because it was TERRIBLE, but with energetic and imaginitive code updates it's become a great pin that I now highly recommend. Maybe one day Munsters will be that way, too. But given Dwight's public comments that the game is basically finished, I think it's that in more ways than one and would never recommend it, much as I *love* the theme.

I believe it’s about 50 pins per day

Deadpool might have more code depth but i will take Munsters any day over DP. Everyone is different and likes different things. Munsters definitely has a simple and shallow code but that doesn't mean that it cant be fun.

There are lots of games that are great that have shallow code and Munsters is one of them. The top rated games on this site are old games with shallow code. All you guys act like The Munsters is complete trash and im sorry its just not true.

Worse thread ever! Judging a game with less than v1.0 code.

When a game is available to buy & it’s $6000-$9000, OF COURSE you can judge it!!!! Don’t accept being a guinea pig unless Stern is sending you a game for free.

Don't tell people how to spend their $$$ judgey mcjudgepants

That was my other personality.

If it's for sale, it's getting judged

50 pins * 5 days/week = 250 pins per week. 1000 pins per month

12000 pins per year ! That’s a lot of pins going around the world

All in the court of public opinion

Munster's... Worse Thread Ever!! LOL

Big deal. So has many Iron Maidens.

Man, I must be missing something because I legit don't understand what you mean.

Game is very fun, especially the premium/le with the added lower playfield and flipper buttons. Great music, sounds, and callouts. "Worst Code Ever" is overstating it tremendously. The idea of a pin needing to have "deep" code to be considered a good game is a modern plague infecting too many minds. Many of the best games ever are simple, linear, and easy to understand.

Just in the top 50 rated games alone: MM, AFM, TOM, IJ, TOTAN, CV, HS:GETAWAY, SM, CFTBL, FT, CONGO, TNA, SS, WH20, TRON, SHADOW, FUNHOUSE, BSD, WHIRLWIND, NGG, among others that are usually considered "shallow" code games. Many classics have never needed "deep" or complicated code to be great, all time classic games that are still played and sought after today. Players on location mostly still prefer these classics over the new bloated and hard to understand games. And I would still rather have them in my house as well. Long playing games with tedious rule structures alienate more players than they satisfy. And only Lyman consistently bridges the gap between the two and can make pins with universal appeal.

It's a valid point, except for the game being crippled...Ghostbusters is crippled, Munsters is not. Shallow, but not crippled. My favorite game of all time is Attack From Mars, and it's pretty comparable to Munsters depth-wise.

To me, theme matters a lot. I like Deadpool a lot and play it on location, but I have no interest in having a super-hero themed pin in my house. I bought a BSD, even though it kicks my ass and my friends don't like it, because the theme fits the monster/cheesy horror vibe I'm going for. Munsters is a great theme for me.

You're talking about two different things. AfM is relatively shallow compared to modern games, but the theme is WELL INTEGRATED and the code has good progression which makes it FUN. Munsters is very shallow with a very poorly integrated theme, so it makes it much more boring than Attack from Mars. After only about 2 weeks the year-old AfMr already was out-earning the brand new Munsters we had on the route I help with. That's really bad for a new pin, usually the honeymoon lasts longer. Ghostbusters has problems with buggy code and some bad code progression choices, but I wouldn't call it crippled because it again has great theme integration, and the depth of code that's already there is substantially more than Munsters.

Munsters has the double whammy of poor theme integration AND very shallow, repetitive code, which makes it exceptionally boring to play. THAT is crippled.

But hey, it can pull a Deadpool or Batman'66 and get a major code fix or fixes that makes it worth owning eventually, but we're definitely not going to have one on the route while Dwight figures out if the code really is mostly done like he's said.

Code 1.00.0 will probably be here before the end of the month. It won't be long.

None of these games are “shallow” and were never considered to be by the hobbyists/players/community. They’re all brilliantly designed from design to code, with multiple objectives & ways to tackle the games.

A true shallow game is something like BTTF. 3 drops light lock, lock. Repeat. Multiball. THATS IT. Or something like BOP. Great game, but it’s all about shooting the ramp & flipping the heads. Not much else matters really.

They would be considered shallow released today. I love them the way they are. Point being, this "shallow" or "deep" code is a buzzword that gets thrown around way too much when discussing new releases. Is the game fun or not. Are the rules comprehensible and balanced, or not.

Exactly. They’re buzzwords. Depth equaling fun is a myth. Shallow as a term of negativity for any game that’s not math-chess is a false moniker.

That being said, Munsters might be shallow....I haven’t had enough time on it, but when I see my friends who love Tron & IM saying Munsters is shallow, that’s probably the case then ...and also the case that the gameplay isn’t as well rounded and addicting as the 90’s games it’s attempting to emulate.

Movie stars and rock stars live by the maxim that the only bad publicity is no publicity.

Stern sure has getting publicity.

That's because depth or complexity is not the end game. It's why people that just compare and measure by just that dimension have it all wrong. The end-game is a game that is SATISFYING and wants you to play more. Depth, toys, humor, whatever... they are all just MEANS to an end. And there is no 'one formula' to achieve it.

Those that try to use a single means as a universal measuring stick are just those out to copy others work, vs understand why it works.

Depth or variety only work if they are interesting paths to take. The special spark game designers are trying to create is that urge to play again and try again..

Obviously the more simple a game is.. the higher risk that people simply 'blow through it' too quickly and have nothing left on the table to explore or challenge them. But that doesn't mean you simply put a mountain in front of them and say "you'll never reach the top.." either.

Today, in Oz......I finally got to see and play Premium.

And .....I am still torn.

Possibly the best looking pin I've ever seen, it truly looks FANTASTIC to me. The great light show adds the colour as I knew it would.

Love the theme from day one.

Shoots so fast and smooth, I realise none of what I'm saying is news to many here.

Side targets are not ideal but also not as bad as I envisaged them to be.

Lower PF was better than I expected, flippers on soft.

Question remains do I proceed and risk future code updates , it would be nice to have a super fast "non experienced player" friendly game in the house and I love the theme, so this IS calling for me to buy........

My " non pinball" friend from work LOVED IT.

What to do.......

There are a lot of us thinking the exact same thing.

Stern need to realise there is a FLOOD GATE of orders heading their wayif they polish this a little. A flood gate......

Keep in mind that for everybody putting their new Munsters up for sale, for whatever the reason, someone else buying what they are selling for a little bit of a discount off of new price.

If you are the fence or buying and hoping for future code updates Wotto i wouldn't buy one, and you definitely don't buy games because your friends like them. Now if you were just flipping and didnt know what you were really doing i would suggest that you learn the code and go back and try it again and see if you like it better.

Had a fair idea what I was doing, lit Lily, Herman, Grandpa.....got Raven MB as well.

Seemed to be fast and "busy" as I was trying to work out zaps, jackpots, collect, retain etc.

Loved the feel, just want more depth. I get the "chase a score" thing and don't mind it, it's just that its12k here in Oz so its a mighty big decision. Having said that, a freindly game in my small collection is warranted

Many of us feel just like you do. How many of us have written to stern directly telling them: we are ready to buy money in hand, just need so much more video from the TV series (70 shows and not much game related show parts, like Batman does so well, in the game. We’re all hoping Dwight adds more from the show, like Lyman did for Batman. Meaning modes like using Dragula to win a new family car mode directly from the show. It can’t be that hard to do. Dwight is a good coder, just needs to be given the time. Stern will be selling this title for the next 4 years, like they are with Batman.
Theme series integration is key to making this the pin we all want. Everything else about it is spot on (pun intended lol).
Please everyone write emails directly to. (If someone knows better email addresses, please advise): [email protected] or send to Chaz: [email protected]

I might have to buy a Premium.

Never buy games for the "if"

"If they do an update"
"If they do a revamp"
"If they polish it"
"If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle"

Buy games you like without the "if" overlay.

I'm no authority, just a dude, disregard.

These are very wise words.

rd

Now the decision. Munsters premium vs LE.

I bought an LE because I snagged a great deal. But that Premium play field is centerfold material.

It’s at .99, right? That’s close enough to have a pretty good idea what the final game will be like.

Also, if I can buy it, I can judge it. Shoot, if it’s public I can judge it. If I haven’t played it I will try to do that first, but you can get a general idea.

Right on!

For all those that have great Munsters code suggestions please email
Dwight Sullivan [email protected]

Don’t assume he knows - if you have a great idea, great theme integration - email it to Dwight.

Stop bitching, take that energy and focus into something positive!!!!!!!

I pulled back my order due to the code as it is being "finished".

Played my part and sent Dwight a polite email.
Cc'd GG as well.

Thanks Wotto!

Yes, when everyone emails Dwight he deserves respect imo, as he has coded some of the best games out there. Like the way underrated SWPre/LE. Absolutely fun, deep and varied code on a fab table layout by Steve Richie.

He unfairly gets slammed for GB, when his time is dictated by his boss, Stern. All GB complaining should be directed to Stern, not Dwight.

Love the Munsters and positive Stern can pull a rabbit out of the hat code wise, if they’ll let Dwight do his thing and we all give suggestions of what can make it a great deal better.

Really hoping they will give Dwight the time to do this theme the right way, like they did Lyman on Batman. What a fab game, Batman! Now we just need Munsters to be brought up to that standard.

PS what is George Gomez email address, since he should be CC’d in on all this too.

Assume: [email protected]

doesn’t even have a damn ball saver
or a choice of lanes up top. and the lower playfield blows. make orbits. shoot center. and it’s super tiny points. spot seems to just get in the way when getting the feel for it. dragula is in same spot as dracula on taxi. game sucks.

mjr

WTF?

There's some ridiculous posts on this thread, but that takes the cake.

Here's a novel idea: Learn the rules before you criticise them.

Go into the adjustments and turn on the ball saver.

Learn to play the fucking game. Then speak.

So what?

This is what I sent to Dwight:

1. When playing the lower playfield (Grandpa’s Lab) it seems like you could use the upper playfield lighting to make it epic when you hit shots down there. (lightning shoots across the entire machine) It’s anticlimactic right now. SFX for the lower playfield are very muted also.

2. Dragula is kind of boring. Why not use the zap button here? You can drag race Dragula. Put a meter on screen and hit zap at the right time for the perfect race start and button smash to win the race.

3. Spot is very underused. Make a mode where he pops up briefly and you try and hit him. Big fire fx on screen.

4. There are some nice cut screen videos in the game. Need more. But the real question is how do you capture the fun side of the show in the game? Herman is a giant goofy funny guy. Assemble some short video clips of that characteristic and make a mode out of it. Hit ramps to trigger each video. Hit the final one to win the mode and get a video of Herman doing his best laugh or some other great quote.

5. Herman tries out for the Dodgers mode. Hit the left ramp for a home run. Cut to video Eddie says “Atta boy pop!” Avoid right ramp. Lily says “Oh Herman” score multiplies with each home run and decreases with each right ramp.

6. Use that clip of grand pa turning out the lights in the wrestling episode for a blackout mode. Hit Spot to turn the lights back on. -red fire lighting.

7. Needs a Marilyn mode playing on the ugly Marilyn joke.

Make Dwight Great Again

No longer a Munsters owner but it is a fantastic pin. I would also like to see Spot used more in different mode. Also would love to see the Dracula coding set up different.

I might be in for a premium after selling my LE let go Stern! Put some work in on a great pin.