Eventually.

I'd like to know what the issue is with these long standup targets, please. I don't have a problem with them so I am not seeing why some people do not like them.

Thanks

Because it is more fun and rewaeding to try and aim for a point 1/4 the size as opposed to getting rewarded for hitting something the size of a barn 4 times.

But what makes code "good" varies from game to game...different layouts & themes lend themselves to different types of coding approaches. LOTR is 3 giant quest movies, so it's massively deep ruleset makes sense for that game. Iron Man is a simple layout with fast adversarial gameplay with 3 characters to attack (and they attack you back)...its code makes perfect sense for that game. MM has simple concepts new players can understand (hit the castle), that still remain satisfying and fun after 1000's of plays...plus nuance that you learn as you go (stacking Madness multiballs), clear progression goals (defeat all the kings), plus great sound and lights choreography that adds to the Pavlovian nature of what makes great pinballs really fun. 3 games with massively different approaches and "depth", yet all excellent games.

Alright. I can understand that.

I think there is room enough there to make Lily into 4 drop targets or 4 stand ups. However, IMO, trying to target a hit to the "Y" would be an almost impossible task that would have to happen at the absolute tip of the left hand flipper. A skill shot for the Pros---which would more than likely turn off the average players, which it seems the average players is what and where Stern is trying to target.

On the left hand side with Dragula, there is not enough room for 7 drop targets or 7 of anything. To get 7 targets in there, they would have to be smaller than a gum chicklet; And then you would be hitting 2 or 3 targets at the same time, which would defeat the intended purpose.

But I get where you are coming from.

Ever play TWD - those drop targets are challenging to hit

You don't have to aim for the Dragular or Lilly targets, The sling shots do it for you.

Metallica Prem/LE had the target bar for FUEL ....I don't recall many people complaining. Maybe cuz there are also inline drops, snake jaw, hammer lock, etc.

Because you can ricochet off the Fuel target into the drops, making it worth shooting

I've seen many long-time player/collectors back off on buying Stern's latest offerings. After IMDN/Munsters, I've decided to sit on the sidelines as well. IMDN is a great game, but my Premium took forever to dial-in. If it isn't incomplete code, it's incomplete mechs! Considering Stern inherited the overall design, it's kind of disturbing they couldn't get the mechs "right" (especially since they aren't exotic). Sigh.

Love my current lineup, so it's not a big deal.

Yeah. The arcade in Oklahoma City where I have a chance to check out the newer pins has a TWD. I did not care for it. It is like I dropped in my coins and 30 seconds later ball 3 has drained and I am digging in my pocket for more change. And 30 seconds later ball 6 has drained. I moved on to a different pin.

Its sort of like a job interview. You have about 30 seconds to make that good impression. AS, MET, IMDN, DP, DI, AC-CD, TWD all cleaned me out. And I said fuck it. Not hired.

Munsters actually gave me a little action for my money. And GB seemed to give me a fair shot, too. TNA ain't bad, either.

And therein lies the issue.
Lily is lit before you even realise and Dracula is often achieved very quickly..... And you, as the player,.....have done nothing to obtain them. Nothing.

Many modern games are coded to score the target on either side of the one actually hit on a target bank anyway. So an individual 3 bank target is the same as the Fuel mono target in Met for example. The mono targets on Munsters are pretty much a non issue.

Drop targets on the other hand are completely different.

That would be a bit of exaggeration; At least on my Munsters. But the thing for me is I played several games on the Pro at the arcade and did not notice how these two switches were constructed. In fact, I had several games on the one I brought home before I took a good look to see what was being talked about. I'm like OK. No big deal. I focus on the things I liked enough on the arcade unit to make me want to lay my money down.

I like that 180 degree right hand ramp and the orbit shot/Eddie Loop. Since I discovered Spot under the stairs, I have grown fond of the left ramp, as well.

Not long into playing my Munsters, I got a double -Eddie loop. I got a few more. Then I made it a goal to get a 3-Eddie Loop. Finally, I got a 3-Eddie Loop and then another one. Now, my goal is to get a 4-Eddie Loop.

I'd like to be able to get a triple combo on those ramps. So that is another goal I am shooting for.

And all the while I get to beat the crap out of that silver ball with some nice flipper setups.

Those are the items I like about Munsters, and keep me enjoying this game. Obviously, every one does not share my opinion.

I should be playing with a stop watch. I rarely look at the points score. I think that is old habits being hard to die. When I was a kid, there were not too many extra quarters floating around. My goal on a pinball machine was time. How much time can I squeeze for my quarter. I only care about getting enough points to win a game. And I went after those specials. Every time I heard that Thwack ! I knew would be playing for a while more.

Munsters pushed all of those buttons for me.

I'm holding out hope for the code on Munsters to improve. My main complaint is the lack of actual call-outs in the game to make it more "Munster Like".
I've been watching the DVDs of the TV show and there are TONS of great and appropriate sayings that could be used. Heck, in Texas even Butch Patrick asked where his voice was. Yea, I agree, where is it? Why can't there be Grandpa call-outs when you go into the laboratory and while you're down there for instance? The Paul Lynde voice makes NO sense there. When the game has seen its last code update and if Stern doesn't make it better, I'll spend a bunch of time replacing the call-outs with actual quotes from the show using the Pinball Browser program. Love the art, love the theme, love the music, and I hope to love the code one of these days! I think it could be so much more fun!

You're kidding me. Right?

The only voices making calls on the play field are Paul Lynde's and some little boy's voice. I could do with out the little boy's calls and go with Paul all the way. Paul telling me that "Looks like Grandpa shrunk the ball" works just fine. I suppose we could have Grandpa saying, "I shrunk the ball". And then what?

Damn. If Stern listened to all of the hee-hawing going on around here it would never get a pinball machine built.

No such thing. That continues to be a figment of your imagination.

Batman 66 was a special case that Stern was VERY upfront with at the Expo launch and they made it super clear the game was going to launch with “box of lights” alpha level code and take time to evolve. Only a few people (like you) who didn’t pay attention and bitched constantly were actually upset.

You were upset at Stern only because they did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do. Yes, many were annoyed it took longer than expected but George made good on the promise that the code wasn’t going to be done until he and Lyman were happy with it.

If Batman were delayed a year or two probably no Adam West signed cards or meet and greet. Certainly no pics of him playing the machine at launch. There are many who sold their games early (especially LEs) that are kicking themselves now.

That is very unlikely to be the case with Munsters because Stern/Dwight did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do - a game with simple, approachable code reminiscent of 90s code. If that eventually changes, Pro and Premium sales will go up (probably significantly), just like sales of Batman Premiums went up after the code matured.

Didnt Paul Lynde die 40 years ago? Are those really his actual voice clips in the game that were ripped from somewhere else? Definitely sounds like him.

EDIT nevermind, I looked it up and its a voice actor that sounds like Lynde.

All the pinball related call outs are the voice actor, but I swear some of his call outs are directly from the show, ie “ You’re not looking to well Mr Munster” and I think “ Your clock has a Raven in it” is actually Paul.

LOL - thats supposed to be Marilyn, not a little boy

Integrating a theme into the audio package is basic "doing pinball work" and not out of the ordinary to expect.

Not an exaggeration, the point was you just don't need to shoot for Lily or Dragular, Are you saying on your Pro you can get to MM and Lily is the last Munster to collect and you have to aim for the target?
I would put money on that NO Munsters owner could get to MM with Lily being the last Munster to collect

I thought they used a boy that was in the middle of puberty when I first heard it on the reveal videos and when my friend got his game until someone told us differently. The callouts are pretty bad in this game. They should have used audio from the show where it would fit and hire better voice actors. I guess the Paul Lynde voice actor is ok but very over used and gets annoying.

Yeah - although I like the custom voices in Munsters WAAAAY more than other recent games, I do want it to have way more voice clips from the show. Those are the characters and personalities we want to shine through. For example, the Eddie shots are like the Monster Bash Wolfman shots...but every time you hit an orbit on MB, the Wolfman says something....Eddie shots should be similar.

TWD on location is tough as hell. Really a outline extenders are needed. It's even tough w/that.

I'm no Munsters code fan. It's pretty basic and repetitive for me, but TRON is universally well liked and you start half the "modes" on accident with that pin, yet everyone loves it.

Two thoughts about Tron's modes.

-Even though you start them on accident sometimes, playing them well results in reward. Just starting them all can get you to Sea of Simulation, but you need to complete all of them to get to Portal, and that's quite a challenge.

-They have very specific mode music & specific sound FX/callouts when you get the shots which have that very satisfying Pavlovian nature to them. I don't remember if Munsters is quite comparable, to be honest.

Flynn, Zuse & Tron are always at least started. Tron and Flynn are layups. Zuse is easy if you have Multiball. CLU is just a shade more difficult, but again w/multiball, it pretty much completes itself.

Light Cycle, Gem, Quorra & Disc are all tough, which is probably why the others are on the easy side.

TRON is one of the greatest games Stern has ever made (and I'm not really a fanboy for the movie/license). Some folks don't like the "Photoshopped" artwork, but it doesn't bother me. I really like the way they organized the straight line of inserts/modes. Combo heaven. Disk with the translucent rubber produces the best ball action of any "toy" in pinball. The only game I've ever owned 2 of...one for each "coast" Getting to Portal is challenging but not impossible. Getting to Portal without passing through SOS is really an achievement (both my son and I have each done it once IIRC). LE goodies are subtle but very cool. The only thing Munsters does better than TRON is the artwork. Guess some folks love the new fangled LCD, but on Munsters it doesn't do anything for me (unfortunately), and I'm a big fan of the series (watched it growing up).

I hope we are not talking past each other here. Some people have expressed issue with the LILY target being one big uni-target and want 4 drop targets instead. If there were 4 drops in place I could target the "L" and the "i" with the left flipper. The 2nd "L" can be targeted (I think).

But trying to target a "Y" drop target at its low position would be a difficult task for many. For the better players, the "Y" might not be a problem, but for the average player or the brand new player would, I think, add a level of difficulty that would turn some off.

I have targeted Lily and Dracula, but for the most part they just sort of get hit from just "being in the way", which may go some way to support your statement of the slings targeting Lily and Dragula.

I understand where everybody is coming from. I love drop targets. But for some reason these two targets in question have not bothered me. Maybe someday, if I get better at playing Munsters, or if I get good enough to get bored with it, I could change my mind and put it up for sale.

Right now, my goal is to get to MM twice, get a 4-Eddie loop, and get a 3-combo on the ramps.

For me, Munsters is a short ball time pin that gives me lots of good, fast, flipper shots to work with. Those kinds of flipper shots that when you lose the ball you know if was from your own lousy play and not from some cheap drain trick.

(about TRON : getting to PORTAL is not very hard... fully finishing it its another story)

about Munsters code : again, all latest messages here are simply showing that this pin was made to be enjoyed not by hardcore gamers, but mostly the lambda players (dont take this as negative)

I'm with the OP on this, Munsters was quite disappointing and the hype it got as the GOAT I fell for but compare deadpool to munsters. Deadpool doesn't have that much more to hit than Munsters but the code makes all the difference to it. It generates demand for you to hit a lot of shots for pair up and other modes and then you get into each mode which then gives you more reasons to shoot. Shots are also challenging. Deadpool is up there with the best games Stern has ever made but its gets low amount of love.

I think that's changing, at least in the US. It mostly has to do with how terrible Deadpool was at launch - and it was BAD. In the last 3 months or so of great software updates, it's turned a corner and at least here seems to have become a sought-after pin. Lots of people buying Premiums and LEs recently. We added a Premium to the route I help with and it's doing great.

don't confuse pinside fanboys with reality

I believe that MANY of us fence sitters would have risked it and crossed fingers for future code , even if it took a year or so......had Dwight not dropped that line in the release video .

Agreed, if there was hope of a Batman style TV series integration, I’m in for a Premium and know of numerous others that would be too. It has everything else going for it. It’s so close to being a great pin.

Not many looking for a 90’s coded pin at 2019 prices. If they are, they’d buy MBr. Munsters can be so much more with 70 episodes of shows to include parts from to make it work with the current awesome play field. Relevant modes, like Herman buys a new car, where the Dragula is used to win a new one. Herman and Grandpa doing things down in the basement, with relevant play on lower playfield. Wouldn’t be hard to do for a great coder like Dwight, if Stern gave him the time to do it.

if Lyman was on code, hell yes. The shots on this game are excellent, there is just nothing making me want to continue to making them...

Had some pinheads over tonight and Munsters and IMDN were the two most played pins in my collection. People loved Munsters and had a lot of fun playing it.

Surely that’s not possible Who-Dey .

“Closet likers” they are the worst.

Lol you wouldn’t think so would you? Part of it is because they hadn’t got to play it much considering it just came out but part of it is also because the game is fun. We played for five hours so if it sucked too bad i don't think it would have stayed running then entire night. Its not the best game i have and its not on the same level as IMDN and TWD obviously but the game is great fun and it makes you want to keep hitting the start button over and over. The code just isn't nearly as bad as some people let on. If it was it wouldn’t be so much fun.

I have been listening to the voices a little it closer.

Marilyn says things when I lose the ball like:

"Oh, Aunt Lily"

Oh, Uncle Herman.

And couple of other items I can't remember

The voice of the adolescent boy I hear says things like:

(when I lose the ball), "You'll do better next time."

"Turn on Grandpa's machine."

Both voices are there, but they sound close to the same. It is hard to tell the difference.

If I had my choice, they would go away and all I would have left is the voice of Paul Lynde telling what a POS pinball player I am I guess I prefer the negative approach. I think it come from playing a few sessions on Breakshot and getting tired of listening to that adolescent voice always calling out "Great Shot".

Interesting. If they do what they say they are going to do then there is the possibility of many missed sales. If they capitulate and go for chasing more sales then everybody will ALWAYS be expecting them to continue to say one thing and then do another. That can be a nasty trap to be caught in.

Another way to look at it, though, is that it can be a way of controlling demand to match supply capabilities. Maybe, right now, Stern is backed up to the ceiling with orders for Munsters in its current configuration. Once the current market is saturated, "code changes" could be announced and sales could get goosed some more. Yeah, I know, it is a little crazy thought, but from where we all sit with weak-to-no information then anything is possible.

It would be interesting to know how many pins Stern can produce and ship in one day. Backlog and pipeline fill would also be nice numbers to know.

With all the talk of Munsters being coded as a 90's style pin, which do y'all guys think has the deeper code, between Addams Family and Munsters.
I own an Addams Family and would be quite happy if the Munsters code came close to matching that. I have not had the opportunity to play Munsters.

Current Munsters code is closer to a System 11 pin than a WPC Pin IMO.

I’d say Munsters is more in line with BSD then anything else from that era.

People are really going to be bummed they sold their Munsters when they update code soon.

I have been paying more attention to how these two "banner" targets are being activated during game play.

They can be targeted with the flippers.

There are some rebounds of the slings that make contact.

But more often that not, they are usually hit with a rebound bounce from a bad shot to the ramps.

So, there is no one thing that activates Lily and Dragula. But I get your point. Most of the hits are random hits.

All of my other pins are early SS pins with pop bumpers in the middle of the play field, front and center and pops produce all kinds of random action and I guess I am just used to it.

Even if Stern takes a 2nd look at the code, you will still using these two banner targets.

All that said, Munsters is a party pinball machine. For the whole family. My neighbor sure is digging on it.

People that dumped Munsters and spent months (or YEARS) enjoying a pin with good code while Munsters does whatever it does will regret nothing. Why waste time with a crap pin, especially in a limited home collection? Enjoy a pin with mature code (Deadpool has recently graduated to awesome) and circle back to Munsters IF it ever gets code worth playing.