It sounds like you might be full of faces tonight Wesman!

I like sterns. I bought two NIB sterns... I think my floor would collapse if I bought a nib jersey jack... But, truthfully as I said above I am a theme guy, and right now there is no theme at JJP that I LOVE!

I even enjoy Gottliebs. As you said "almost all pinball is fun" and I agree with that statement. Perhaps one of the reasons why I don't like Munsters is because I was so underwhelmed by it. But, trust me. I've got a lot of games under my belt on it. Not saying I'd never own it. Just not in my current house. Maybe if I have room for 30-50 pins. Then yes. I'd probably add it to my collection.

Munsters is a fun little game but after a while it does get stale like most pins... it just was a little faster for us do to the simplistic layout and code.
I haven't played elvira yet but id guess it wld be about the same due to the more common fan layout and current code. I'm sure it will have deep code in a few years and be pretty good . I will own it sooner or later and ill probably let it go within 5 months like munsters.
It takes a pretty special pin to make my cut after the honeymoon phase and even then i can't keep them all if i want something new.
There is no bad pinball as they all put a smile on your face ...some just click better for people than others.

I think if we played together that I could change your thoughts on it a little and remember, this game will get more code I dont care what Dwight said. I definitely think and have heard that it's going to get some code work done to it. I like it how it is right now but more of a good thing is always better and this game doesnt need a complete code overhaul either like some suggest.

Sorry, my mistake.

You must be referring to Scared Stiff!

Should Elvira have had the lower playfield instead of Munsters.?

Should be in both games and i would love to see the Munsters house in the middle of the playfield like the house on Elvira

No. Neither should. That lower playfield is worse than Congo's.

Haha yeah right. That lower playfield is the best lower playfield in pinball history easily!

Took the Stern tour at Expo. One of the questions in the tour group was will Munsters get more code? Gary said Munsters was done.

Soooo, this was your own " I just wanna feel good about buying Elvira thread"

Dont bet on that.

Until there is actually new code, it would be foolish to bet otherwise.

His main point was that about 75 percent of all comments about pins on Pinside these days are negative and the vast majority of those are from PEOPLE WHO DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GAME. Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion whether it is informed or not, but what does attacking a machine you don’t really know accomplish or do to help those of us who are trying to learn about that particular machine? And then there are the trolls who go into owners threads who don’t even own the machine and start trashing it. If you know the machine then by all means say whatever you feel and believe, but you should hold that opinion before you at least know the basics of the machine and have played it more than once on location when you were half drunk.

Earn better? Yes, that is important. I am a collector first and an operator second. I like what I like but I can't tell my customers what machines to put their money into. Modern Sterns and classic Bally/Williams remakes are both being enjoyed equally right now. It is a truly awesome mix. If Stern can pump out truly amazing machines in the future they will displace the older B/W titles. If not, oh well, we have a ton of awesome stuff to enjoy right now. It's up to the next generation of players to put their quarters into their favorite slots to decide.

Fuck off with this. The title of the thread is Game X vs. Game Y and you came in already hating one and having spent $8-10K on the other after having some knowledge of it. This entire discussion is disingenuous and has been done a trillion times already on this site.

You really can't predict what your customers will like. I write and produce and own my own indie comic company. Sometimes the comics I am most proud of and love and put the most work into are my worst sellers and sometimes the comics that I don't like that much or I view as disappointments go on to be hits. Its a fickle thing trying to predict what people will like. Sometimes your instincts are correct and sometimes, well you're dead wrong. The key is once you get the data. You adjust your approach and try to capitalize off what you learned.

Back to pinball the guys at Buffalo Pinball say Monopoly is one of their best earners. Its a Lawlor pin. So I won't be knocking it. But, its also a pin I'd never want to really have in my home collection. But, I guess its a great theme for location. And I've heard similar people say that the Super Mario Bros game earns well too...

Wonder if Street Fighter II could be a big time earner in the right location. Think of it. Put a SFII CE arcade cab next to it, and maybe a marvel vs street fighter as well. And possibly you might have a pin that gets some big plays... Or not... Maybe still just an oversized door stop.

See below.

Diospinball said, “... And I think Dwight is a better coder than I'll ever be, but he is not thinking outside the box for what you can do. There is potential in Munsters to do amazing things... But, they kept it simple... And its BAD because of it.”

Here in lies the issue with Munsters. Dwight, a great coder has not been given proper time by Stern to make Munsters epic software wise. It has everything else going for it, except lots of material from a 70+ beloved TV series. If it had the clever concepts it has now, with a proper amount of in game modes with lots of show material, it would stand its own with any pinball machine and become a highly sought after title. Stern is missing the boat big time with this title. Would think sales are reflecting that fact by now.

It shoots great, play is fun and has plenty of things to hit. The lower playfield and upper playfield multiball going at the same time with four flippers is a completely unique experience in pinball. Nothing like it has ever been created. Lower PF could be a machine in and of itself and sold for under $500 to $800 dollars, it would fly off Costco or Sam’s Club shelves for Christmas and introduce all kinds of people into pinball, not just the same crowd here on Pinside, over and over.

People that say otherwise, don’t think they’ve given proper time on the machine. We have a goodly selection of pinball at our place and when people come over, they all gravitate to Munsters and love it. One of the best party games ever.

There is nothing boring about the machine. It is just light on show material modes and content from the show. Add more of that and everyone will change their tune.

Elvira is a clever machine, but shot wise, on the easy to mediocre side, but is still a great machine (even though the straight almost not there, plastic habit trails are boring at best). Where Munsters shines is with incredible ramps, fun bash toys, Herman, Spot and Grandpas mystery machine, Dragula race ball interaction, lower PF once understood is a blast on its own, etc. So much to shoot and fun to get to Munster Madness, Midnight Madness, level 2 Munster Madness, zap awards, super jackpots are exceptionally fun to collect and cash in with about 9 collected. How many of you bashing Munsters have even collected 4?

Yes, the code needs to be greatly improved and Dwight really has something here to prove to us that he can indeed make Munsters epic, just like Lyman will make Elvira epic. Given the time, I believe Dwight can do it to become epic. Munsters has more than looks and given a fair assessment, really does have everything else in it, designed by a top designer, John Borg. Here’s hoping Stern will listen to us and give Munsters what it deserves, then all the bashing will stop and buyers will be coming out of the wood works to buy it.

@thunderbird nailed it.

And another thumbs up for the Munsters ramps.

I think people might have read too much into my dislike for the Munsters pin. Its true I don't love the game and it doesn't excite me. But, every time I have been at a location with one I have played it. So... Clearly I don't HATE it. I do wish it was better... And excited me, as I think visually its one heck of a nice looking pinball machine.
So, I agree with your points on the munsters. I hope they allow him to retool it. And why shouldn't they. They release updates big and small all the time. For now it could be completed. But, a year from now, stern might say... Its NOW finally done.
And I think if you have a munsters in your collection you'll have fun with it. Just for my money I'd go with other pinball machines.

And I think it was a cool idea to go simple with the code. But, I don't think they went about it the right way. Still I think a noble attempt and interesting approach.

It’s not you. There are just some that don’t allow anything other than superfanboyeverythingisperfectgreatestgameever or hater and think everyone has to be in one of those two buckets and you are horribly wrong if you are anywhere in the middle.

Munsters could be improved with a single code adjustment. If Stern added an option to the menu - play through levels, the game would not feel so 2 dimensional. Playing through 3 levels of a mode to close it out and earn a bonus while you worked to close out the other modes and to complete 3 Munster Madnesses would feel significantly better.

I can’t even believe Munsters is racking up almost 30% of the vote, would have expected it to be lower.

I use to have that mindset that I'd like only the best of the best and all that jazz. And then I realized... Who cares. If you enjoy something you enjoy it. If an album has some songs that I don't like... Just don't listen to them.. .or maybe even just enjoy them for what they are.

And the true is the same for pinball.

I love games like Sorcerer and Space Shuttle. I'd like to own the former. Right now my living space is full, and so I'm not buying shallow games like that. But, when I move to my next house I'm going to stock up on games like Sorcerer, Gorgar, and maybe even an Harlem Globetrotters... Really fun shooting pins, but simple code. Hell... Sorcerer is hit left ramp to lock a ball. Hit left ramp for MB. And you got 2 options in mb. Complete Sorcerer targets or go for the drops and collect big points on completing them... Simple game... But, super fun and just fantastic looking game with really amazing callouts. Sure only like a few lines... But, that's all you need. And the eyes... THE EYES!!!!!!!!!

Gorgar... Man... Brutal, but fun game. Love the theme. Love the fact that one of my favorite heavy metal bands made a song about hte pin.

Harlem Globetrotters. I just think it shoots really good. Fun spinner rip game.

And that is how I would enjoy a munsters as well... But, for right now its a wee bit too expensive for what I think you get out of it. But, who knows... With some code tweaks like you said. And maybe the game will be gangbusters.
I don't know what I would like to really see changed.

I know they should remove the horrible Lilly animation. That looks creepy and cheap. Just go with footage of her. If need be. Go in and isolate her and remove the background... JJP did this for WOZ. So Stern can do some of those tricks too.
And yeah. More munsters in it...

Ohhh... And they have a bad animation of Dragula. Show the real drag race in the episode. Or use the footage(might not have the rights) from the color movie Munsters. Big race in that one...
I don't know why the actual assets that they could use they skimped on so much... Maybe they didn't pay for them???? Or had to pay for each use??? Don't know... Just know... That there are 72 24 minute episodes they can take content from... I would also fit the opening credits into the pinball... Somewhere...

ANd you know what. Its not that hard to take the titles out of the opening credits. You can use a program that will take the before frames and sometimes after frames and make phantam frames and fills in the text... Not perfect sure... But, you can then clean it up by hand.

I don't like people dumping on the Stern animation department. Because, I think Iron Maiden has some really awesome animations(some so so, but most are good), and Sword of Rage is AMAZING, and they do a really good job...
But, not on Munsters. The end of ball bonus meltdown... Bad animation. Cool idea. Just bad execution. It looks cheap. And I rendered something similar in daz myself in about a weekend.
I think they should have just focused less on animations and more on existing assets and clips.

But, I think they made the biggest mistake with the Paul Lynde sound alike. He was on 3 episodes. I think they should just use sound clips from the show. Grandpa calling herman a big idiot. Herman laughing...
Lots and lots of choices. But, Paul Lynde no matter how much you love him. Is not munsters. Dom Deliuse played the same role when he wasn't available.
And maybe that to me is why I find it lacking. It lacks the soul of the theme that I really do enjoy.
Its devoid of Herman and Grandpa. Both of those actors had great chemistry together. That's why Al Lewis was brought on as a regular in car 54 where are you. Because he worked so well with Fred. And its their chemistry that made the Munsters really shine. None of that comes through.

own both elvira by a mile

Hey I know you're talking about me and that's not true!

Munsters looks really nice but its probably one of if not the single boring games ever made. Elvira looks okay love the haunted mansion but the game has a lot of problems. Personally I would skip both!!!

Jurassic Park if you're a stern fan is done top notch! Willy Wonka is a load of fun.

Those are your four new games to pick from... I'm getting Willy Wonka and Jurassic Park and skipping Elvira and Munsters.

....and here I was feeling like Munsters is one of the most exciting (recently released) pins to play! Silly me

Frankly I'm finding the somewhat simpler ruleset, on a great shooting playfield that's as fast as lightning, to be an incredible thrill! It's a great return to pinball's roots while maintaining a modern day feel. An absolute treat to shoot this game with a few friends as ball times are not epic, but when you lay in to a grove the lights, sounds, action and scoring is fantastic! The press your luck bonus adds just the right touch to make it an awesome "party" machine.

I think it's a bit "en vogue" to hate on Munsters at the moment. To say that it is "Probably one of, if not the single most boring games ever made" is certainly an opinion. But it's an eyebrow raising opinion for me.

Elvira has nice long shots that are fun to make. Lots of humor, lots of great clips from bad movies, and is a great looking game. I am biased as I own a copy of every movie featured in the game.

The theme integration is "meh", the shots are easy, the rules are simplistic & Herman is one of the more pathetic "toys" Stern has ever done. Art package was killer. Many excited, early adopters sold their game within weeks/months (including me). Selling your game at a loss is painful, not "en vogue" (whatever that means). Not every game is going to be great, so it's not really a big deal. In any event, glad you like it! The ultimate "judge" of a games success is how much they sell for...that's why a game like TRON still fetches top dollar despite multiple "runs". Stern will never do another Munsters run.

I appreciate your opinion Snaroff...sorry that it was a "Swing and a miss" for you. We all have different needs in our collections and my Munsters Premium hits the simple yet "not easy"/fast and furious category for my collection.

Yeah many of the shots are easy (Raven Ramp, Marilyn Ramp, Herman, Grandpa and Lily) but they are balanced out by the two hardest shots (Kitty and Dragula) which happen to be the ones that can have the greatest impact on your scoring. THIS difficulty mix is what has me pressing the button for "Just one more game" over any other game in my collection (at the moment). I feel like a 200M game is just barely outta reach but VERY much attainable given the large number of "Easy" shots. Very much like T2. Yes I know...at double the price (a totally fair point)

I am a middle of the road player...I know how to live catch, drop catch, dead pass, post pass, etc. and can put up decent scores when things align. I guess if I were a wizard I might find the game shallow and lacking... thankfully my skills allow me to really enjoy this game.

see it's posts like this which are making me want to get Elvira 3. I've had SS and really like EATPM but this one seems like a home run to a guy like me. Although kinda, so does Munsters.. .but I've heard enough trash talking about that game that I've held off, and maybe will get a Pro if it ever gets under 5K

Elvira 3 totally nails the campy/fun/B-Horror movie vibe. It has a lot of cool clips, and is being added to with each release. You should find one on the newest code to play. IMO it is the best pin out there for this particular niche.

I'm a huge fan of Movie Macabre back in the day on KHJ, and this seems like it absolutely knocks it out of the park. Several of my friends were turned off because of the gameplay - but I haven't played it myself, and I'm nowhere near as good as those guys are. Seems like this might be a new option eventually..

Yes it is a very fun pin to play. I have been and will continue to enjoy playing it on location. Seeing new clips and deadheads is exciting. More than anything, I enjoy hanging out in Elvira’s world. Doing my part to keep pinball alive.

I think this topic is about dead. 4 out of 5 pinballers agree Elvira is the better pin (so says the poll). Pinball is all about fun. I'm not going to hate on anyone if they like Munsters. Not every pin is for everybody. Personally I don't like music themed pins (but that's me). I'm just glad new titles are being made and the hobby is alive and well.

Yeah like 2 percent