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I don't think anyone was being seriously political, maybe with the exception of Vireland complaining about the expression. I'm not even from the states, and the meme was pure sarcasm. I thought it was pretty obvious myself...

It looks to be a dress with a crotch-triangle design.

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I've said I'd never be hoodwinked by Stern again, but Queen could possibly be the only theme that would force my hand again. DON'T DO IT STERN!!!!

Purple key chain. Rare color!

This is great news for classic SS collectors. I can't fathom a new Stern being close to as good as those two, but we'll see! I see saturation happening around me, and I'm excited for the market to come back down to sane levels.

To me, it looks like they are competing with monster bash remake and trying to focus on the nostalgia of Addams family and the actual Munsters show. Stern aggressively competes with its competitors. For example, when they learned of the mini screen in DI, they quickly developed one for Star Wars. This is nothing new to the industry: Williams used to spy on capcom, a very new and small competitor. Theatre of magic is a hostile copy of pinball magic. The kings in the business do not take ambitious underlings striving for the top lightly. They didn’t become kings by being nice. No company ever does. Saying that stern doesn’t care about Chicago or JJP is one of the most naive business assessments one could make.

I hope Dougie starts smoking crack like Robbie. Then we could have a crack-smoking mayor and premier! Our gong show would surely challenge the one to the south, not to be political or anything...

I think that will depend on gameplay more than anything. I just don't see Musters as a super hot license, seeing that the show is ancient. I'm not saying that a healthy group won't jump on it, but I don't see it attracting a crazy amount with the theme; the gameplay will have to be innovative. That being said, I hope it's not Munster Bash and that the gameplay is excellent. I will never buy a NIB Stern again, but the used market will be friendly if a lot of them sell. When's the release date on used sales?

You'll want to review industry practices of the past, especially Williams spying on Capcom and copying Pinball Magic with Theatre of Magic. Stern also lifted the mini-screen from JJP DI. They are rather cuthroat about it, hence the secrecy. All's fair in love, war and business.

I don't think the claim is about technology. It's about timing and toys. That being said, I've only "heard" that in the forum, so who knows. The Capcom story is definitely true though.

The simple point is that pinball companies are competative and therefore secretive about their releases and products. Remove the LCD claim if it bugs you. You could replace it with Stern not releasing full schematics. The general suspicion is that they think other companies actually want to copy their Spike system.

Drac on a stick.. Mick on a Stick.. Buck on a stick.. Electro Guy on a stick.. Any other shit on a stick in pinball?

I hope it's a great game, but that's some partially blind faith in Stern. Watch out!

BL lower PF is kinda fun. I would like to see a simple lower playfield with one flipper and a loop. That's it. BK2k loop underneith that you rip over and over. Each loop takes an article of clothing off Lily on the backglass. If you miss, it drains back up top and she gets dressed. Even I would buy this Stern NIB for that.

Pinside is pinside: every game will have its detractors. People will bitch about The Munsters no matter what. Every game will have a troll critic, like Dialed In's Sinestro, and every game will have fangirls rating it a perfect ten because they bought it. We already have critics and fangirls over leaked pics.

"The wheels on the bus go round and round..."

Yes, we like our pins, but in an ideal world some form of objectivity would come into play. Most of my pins are rated quite high, but I can at least point out the weaknesses in them. Everyone should be allowed one ten in their ratings. ONE. That is the game you see as perfect, and all others should be compared to that scale.

That's in my pinside eutopia though.

I agree in general, but some games do get affected severely by theme. Buck Hunter and Roller Coaster Tycoon come to mind.

I disagree. I find both of those games objectively fun to play and designed well. The themes turn people away. The minority who can look past the themes find them to be bargains. I would say it is you who is posing the subjective argument. You can clearly look past theme, just like me most of the time, but theme can and does kill good pinball machines.

It can be argued both ways. Bad theme or bad game. That's the beauty of most pinball arguments.

Wasn’t guardians worse than bm66? It pretty much had almost no code the first time I played it. It was pretty much unplayable.

That’s why IMDN was my first and likely last stern nib. I knew that Keith and crew had completed most of the code already. Plus with current saturation, you’ll be able to pick up a mint Munsters with complete code a year from now and save 25%.

I just Had to adjust my switch once. I’m the first to argue that stern uses garbage materials for their mechs, but it sounds like you received a lemon mech. The new one will hopefully fix your issues.

I’m hoping for a reskin of Flash Gordon with The Monkeys! I’ll also take I Dream of Genie. Dream theme!

I agree that people should know about Stern’s lack of competence with getting code done on time, but they are currently the largest and most successful pinball company. Every member here has a right to bitch about their business practices, especially in a public forum. “Don’t buy it then” is simply a put down, an attempt to limit opinions.

If Samsung makes a one-of-a-kind dream smart tv and announces that some of the cool features won’t be available for a year because they wanted to selfishly rush the release, people would and should bitch about it.

Recent stern games have been deplorable with code. GotG comes to mind. IMDN had a prototype, so it doesn’t count. Stern has also shown a history of completely abandoning games with incomplete code, something that should terrify NIB purchasers.

I’ve had my disagreements with Vireland, but I say, “bitch on, brother.”

DF reveals are not my cup of tea. I turn off the sound and fast forward to get good views of the game and be done with it ASAP. A professional company reveal would be way better. Show us the models and features via the designers like JJP. Then let the camera happy, disorganized kids play the game for YouTube.

I think the b&w will surprise everyone if true. Think Centaur. The game will look so cool! It will also reflect the era better. I'm out either way, but I'm excited about the possibility of b&w the most.

I never thought they'd make beatlewitch in a million years...

Centaur is absolutely stunning, so much so that I've heard countless pinheads call it a work of art. I call it the same. Stern is onto something, and if they do produce it and produce it right, you guys will be drooling. That being said, Stern has an uncanny knack for screwing up great ideas.

I've adjusted mine once when I recieved and once later. I've played the shit out of it and have had a few tournaments with it, and all is well. I am the first to bash Stern for their shit quality, but this game is working well for me. I find the captive balls to work well and very easy to adjust. I haven't bothered to install the pointed nut-triggers yet.

Bang for buck, all Sterns fail in my opinion.

Super excited about seeing the pin. Not so excited about another dead flip ‘celebrity’ reveal. Wish stern would up their game!

Yes, but your parachut likely won’t be there.

WNBJM reveal should have been revealed at porn world!

You forgot "Stern cut too many corners."

With global warming, the likeliness of hell freezing over is less and less as time goes by.

I love healthy debate, probably more than Pinball. The reason I love talking about Pinball on this forum is that I can find contrasting opinions to my own and people that see things the way I do. Am I going to buy muns? After my IMLE, not a chance. Do I have opinions on perceived value? Yes. Do I love the idea of a b&w pf? Yes! Should anyone criticize others for enjoying healthy debate? I think not. Just bring critical.

I knew I'd love the B&W, but surprisingly, I prefer the LE.

I don't trust Stern with code and quality of mechs, and I'm really bummed about it. I'd be all over that LE. I think this is one of the best, if not the best, lower PFs I've ever seen. LE in a year or so if code is even done by then. I'll also have to browse the Munsters Issues thread to see if the mechs are crap.

Don't you mean 1000 cool points added for custom callouts by the actors, one of the greatest losses to contemporary pinball???

Limiting a production number on a collectible is ALL about perceived value. If they do add another 100, Stern has stooped yet again, regardless if anyone personally cares about the individual value of his game. My guess is that it will be a separate run of 100 super les using a mix of the other models.

I think they’re trying to nail down the w/b classic strategy: the game should be moderately challenging and easy to learn. This game seems to be on par with TAF crossed with MB, which are two of the most popular pinball machines of all time. I commend the strategy, but the big difference is in innovation: w/b always brought something new to the table. Mun pro lacks this completely. The premium looks to be great though. Can’t wait to play it.

I’m with the opposite club. It is up with the greats and an A+ title. Making the mode shot harder would ruin the game. This game is bloody difficult, but boy is it satisfying when you nail the shots. Second best mini pf of all time: easy to access, but tough to beat. Only down is translite, which is an easy swap. The hidden laugh mode literally makes me laugh as I play. Call outs are also crazy awesome. This game is the best value buy in all of pinball imho.

I don't get the whole "we shouldn't worry about value" argument. Yes, these are toys and purchased for fun, but it is still a market of supply and demand, and supply is surpassing demand. If you have a collection that's worth, say, 100 grand to keep it simple, you could be losing 20 grand in value pretty quick with the current inflated market. Just because we can afford these toys doesn't mean we should just simply ignore perceived and real value. That's just rediculous. I'm interested in market value as I am now willing to wait, regardless of the license and game as I know the value on the secondary market will be consistently going down. My IMDNLE is one of ten sold in Canada (my last NIB), and I bet I'd still eat a loss on it. It's a secondary purchaser's market right now, and the discussion about it is valid, welcome and interesting.

Avatar might have all the stuff, but it has very little of the fun. IM by a country mile. If anything, I'd move IM up and met down. However, I realize most would disagree with met moving.

Valid point. PM is designed this way with no mini modes in between, and it's super fun.

Negative Nellies and Positive Petes are both welcome here!

If we limit the amount of repeated criticisms of the machine, can we also limit the amount of repeated complaints about the repeated criticisms? If find them far more annoying... at least the criticisms are on topic.

Except that the cost-cutting lockdown is actually new innovation that surpasses the old. It is, however, the only exception.

To me, it’s a balance. Take tz, for example. Power pf, gum ball, drop diverter, 4 flippers, all balanced with great modes and the camera. The monkey wrench with huge payload is the porcelain powerball with its multiball. To me, this is the perfect balance of features and code depth. It’s also has refined adjustments for setting difficulty.

Although I won’t be playing Munsters until later next week, it appears to be lacking in both code and features for a 2019 game. I’m sure it will be fun to play, but I can’t see it being close to one of the all-time greats. To be fair to stern, TZ was guaranteed to sell a massive number of units.

Frank flip is pretty interactive I’d say.

Put some time on the pro tonight. The music, LCD and art package are awesome. Gameplay was old hat Borg to the extreme, with the meaningless side shots being the biggest disappointment. I heard it was shallow, but it is crazy shallow. Zap and jackpots are cool, but that can only take the game so far. Spot is neat but kills flow. Aside from that, you get one magnet bash... All time worst for toys. Definitely will play it on route, but unlike many who have posted the opposite here, I'm glad I listened to the nay-sayers. I'd be very unhappy if I bought this machine. Clearly many others see it differently. Just my two cents.

Something interesting that I noticed while playing the pro last night is that the theory of Stern creating shallow code to appeal to new players doesn't really fly with me. The game is really easy for pinheads due to two free side-target achievements, but the other shots aren't that easy. Herman can be tough from the left flipper and bounce-brick from the right. Ramps can be backhanded, but newbs just don't backhand. I see newbs bricking most shots and suffering frustration due to no ball save. My wife loves TZ and TOTAN because she can bat the ball around and nail easy ramps and fluke scoops etc. These games allow her to slowly get to the point of trying to nail the harder shots, and the code is simple enough that she can understand what to shoot for. I don't see much of this in Munsters. It's not as tight as other more difficult games, but it doesn't really have the easier feel of older beginner machines that I hoped it would have. I think no ball save was the worst code decision for routing. Everyone knows that even the easiest pinball machine in the world can give you three instant drains in a row. Hell, I consider myself a good player and had a game with two instant drains on Munsters. Conclusion: if you want people to learn pinball, give them easier shots, balanced code that is somewhat shallow, and for Christ's sake, let them play for longer than 30 seconds.

This is a critical point, so some of you will not like it. Just remember this: I'm not shitting on your positive posts. I'm glad you like the game.

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Does Pinside not have a policy about sellers flooding threads with their products? Aren't they supposed to start a new thread?

Let's be redundant and argue about opinions being redundant arguments about redundant topics!

Don't agree at all. It will matter to 99%. The ability to disable is for mechanical issues like any other contemporary machine. Those that hate the lower pf will either not buy or sell immediately. Way to much cash for a purely aesthetic feature.

Please note that I'm still trying to get into this machine. I want it to be good, but Munsters' issue is that it almost solely about score. There has to be some sort of journey to go along with score, and the journey in this machine simply stinks like rotten fish. Get rid of the theme and you have a game that wants you to crank up jackpots and multiplyers to achieve numbers. Do you want adventure? Well, there's a clunky bash toy, a ramp bash that stops flow and freebie targets on the side.

Adventure outweighs scoring by a lot in my books, and the top 100 list reflects this as well. I have more fun on every single system 11 ever made. All this being said, I'm going to plug my local Munsters some more, but I feel it will be like ghostbusters, the other dysfunctional stepchild: there will be no love

True. I agree that with its innovative pf, it should be a bit higher. 8 seems like a pretty good spot though....

Dimples again... this shit is normal. Some PF do dimple more, but it doesn't affect the friggin' game, and you can only see it at certain angles. Let it go FFS. If you want to complain about Stern, complain about the crap Chinese metal for mechs, the crap leg plates, the lack of a knocker, the lack of sewers, the crap wood, the crap board strategy etc. etc. etc., but for the love of GOD, STFU about dimples. This game is a game of physics, and Stern cannot be blamed for physics, just pretty much everything else.

I read the first part of the post about plies etc and couldn't find anything about surface density and dimpling. They use a thicker veneer on both sides, but that doesn't mean Stern has gone thinner than their previous offerings. I bash Stern more than most about their cheapness, but I'm not convinced about the dimpling thing. I think it's just that they get pfs with more moisture now and then. Bound to happen being such a large supplier.

But then why is there the claim that Stern's previous PFs didn't dimple, when they had a thinner veneer? I still think it's moisture, but who knows. It's a non-issue, with maybe the exception of a few batman 66s i've seen.

I'm pretty sure JJP doesn't cheap out on PFs, and theirs dimple too.