Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
MunstersLE cabinet art package looks good
I really dig it!
Quoted from MK6PIN:
I think the LE looks pretty nice...Brass armor and coin door?
I am skeptical if Stern will actually use brass plating. Just like PPS did with MM on it's advertised flyer, where they switched to powder. Brass plating is prone to problems with tarnishing and I really do not think Stern will produce or want to deal with polished brass. More than likely it will be like the powdered gold on WWE.
Announcement coming any day now, I am excited for this title. I still am not going to go in blind-I have learned my lesson. I am interested in the LE/Premium if it has the added features to make the game play better. I am a little concerned about lower playfield. Lower playfields can be hit or miss imo. Some are cheesy and some are cool, I cant stand AC/DC lower-it made me sell my Premium and buy a Pro. If the lower playfield is more of a novelty-I will look at the Pro. I am done buying LE/Premiums because of extra bling-the only thing that matters to me is gameplay.
I can tell by the width of the ramps that this machine will be a flow monster! Really looking forward to playing this one.
So looks like Munsters is going to officially be a '2019' title, first week of January would be my guess for announcement. Really curious to see what they do with underside playfield on Premium/LE.
Have to appreciate Stern's new game launches....No info and tight lips-games built and shipped, leaked sub-par photos, and then boom-games on location and in collectors homes. No bullshit-take it or leave it-I love it!
Quoted from Budman:
Told Trent that I’m in on a Pro ...... how about the rest of you?
I scratch my head at this comment. Why are you in on a Pro? Have you played it yet? Is it limited, will it sell out?
I personally have learned it is better to hold off and play first-then fall in love and pull the trigger. Way too many people buying blind and then selling their machines weeks later because the game did not click with them. The LE has a probability of selling out-if you want one get on a list. As far as the Pro goes-no need to go in blind unless you are a super Munsters fanatic and have to have it.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
Borg makes killer games and i think the risk is extremely low that this game ends up being a dud.
The problem with pinball is it really is up to the particular individuals taste. Everyone has different taste and so someone may pull the trigger on a game because someone said it was the best thing since sliced bread. They get it home, open and play and it ends up being a disappointment. They then can't wait to get rid of it, in hopes of finding one that they like. Almost like three little bear story. In today's market there really is no reason to go in blind, even the LE's are available on secondary market if you eventually decide you want one. I think it is a pain in the ass to buy and sell games so I now try and play several times before I pull the trigger on any new titles. Most of my machines end up being keepers. I am super picky now-only the games that are fun to me make the cut.
Quoted from kermit24:
I have no issue when someone wants to spend their money on a Pinball machine. He wants to have one of the first Pros and is excited to get it. All good. Of course they will be produced for years, etc but let the guy buy what he wants to buy!!
So you are dissing me because I am advising people to exercise patience. I wish people would have told me about patience when I first got into this addicting hobby. What is a couple weeks waiting? Patience Danial San!
Quoted from Whysnow:
slow Beatles sales appear to be the main thing holding back the release.
No Stern wanted it to be a 2019 title and not a 2018, probably for the books. Stern has probably sold out of Beatles to all the distributors by now. It is the distributors that will sit on Beatles-not Stern. The only other reason for a delay may be pre-mature beta code(which did not help BM66 sales). We will see something soon-probably next week at CES? I am excited for this release, but at the same time I am not getting my hopes up too high. Hope it's a great game, but if not-NEXT!
Quoted from Whysnow:
I do agree that they likely wanted the next big game on the books for 2019 and not 2018.
Yes, why would Stern release a game in the last two weeks of a calendar year? They want to have x amount of cornerstone games a year-hence 2019 release.
Not sure where you are getting your info on Beatles from but time will tell.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I unfortunately have high hopes for Munsters, as it is a theme I dig and only fear that the Pro may be too stripped back from the LE version to be good?
I have the opposite fear- I fear that the Premium/LE will have a lame under playfield that will turn me off-although still holding onto hope with double flipper buttons. May have dual action at once? My gut is already telling me that the Pro will be a flow monster, that right ramp reminds me of my Rolling Stones-super smooth ramp. I am really digging games that play great-even if they happen to be a stripped down pro.
Did Stern sell 1964 Beatles machines to distributors in 2018? Not likely, they did however sell out all of the dedicated 'runs' they produced. Is the license only good for one 'run'-no it is probably based on per machine basis or x amount of time-typically 2-3 years. Your assumption is that Stern should have sold out by now. The Beatles is a special K-Pow boutique game and will continue to sell over the next few years. It is not for everyone and only certain individuals will see a true value. They will sell all 1964 of them-time will tell. Thinking they should of sold out instantly is the mis-understanding.
Ok so it looks like the main concern is black and white. I would guess after they sell out of LE's and do first runs of Pro's-enough people will stand up with their pitchforks and demand COLOR for Premiums(or at least two versions-One Color & One B&W). Stern marketing will realize quickly what the public wants.
Now can we move on from the black and white argument-feels like groundhogs day-even after the announcement.
Quoted from Budman:
I went from securing an LE with my distro to a Premium, now to waiting on playing a Pro before making a final decision. Embarrassing !
Not Embarrassing, actually very smart. Go with your gut, and if you get to play the game and wait for real feedback(including qc issues/lack of code) that is a win win. It puts a smile on my face when I see people turn to more rational thinking instead of jumping on the hype train.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I would like to play one and see if it is a worthwhile buy for route. I think the Pro will be, but also debating if the premium could be worth the extra.
Playing is always the best way to make the decision.
I am not an OP so hard to tell, but here is what I would think:
Premium/LE: On route would be good for 'pinheads' who know what a lower pf is and how to play it. Not sure if you noticed Twitch stream with noobie playing(actually well) and when he got to lower-the ball just continued to drain as he looked like a deer in the headlights and did not know what to do with extra flipper buttons. Other thing is premium pricing. How long would you need to keep at $1 a play to start to get ROI? It would attract 'pinheads' but would deter others because of high pricing per game.
Pro: On route should do well all around. Newer title should still bring in 'pinheads' but also attract to others for $.50-$.75 a play? Not sure I would pay $1 a play for Pro on location. Also less to go wrong with maintenance-Can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to access lower pf?
Hard decision for an OP
Quoted from Whysnow:
new games have been $1 per play for years now
I don't pay for $1 games- I walk away. Maybe I am spoiled by the 1Up business model where 95% of the machines are set to $.50. Also other routes around my hood are all usually at $.50 a play, unless newer premium model. If you can get $1 a play for Pro's-more power to you.
Quoted from ScottyC:
Very Very few locations here in CO are less than $1 per play
I am referring to 1up, Arapahoe Bowl and Lyons? If smaller routes at brewery's etc. charge $1 or more that is because they have a % split, have fewer costly machines at $5k+, etc. Yes I am spoiled and live in the past when it comes to pricing-the only time I usually let go of a dollar-is to get a better grip on it. I am a cheap ass
Quoted from JodyG:
Everything modern Stern is $1 PP around here
Wow looks like 1up is an anomaly. I do have to say how cool it is that they still are at $.50 a play for pinball and $.25 a play for arcade! I gave my son $5 the other day in quarters and it took him an hour and a half to spend it. Reminded me of my youth and how cool it was to go to 7-11 with a couple of bucks and play for hours. Man I miss the gool ol days
Quoted from Fytr:
I'm a cheapass too in general but I DO support location pinball without hesitation!
I am a big supporter of small business. I guess I am used to typically paying less than $1 a play. All of the locations I visit the OP's typically take really good care of their pins and are enjoyable to play. Sometimes the smaller locations that charge more are guys that do not maintain machines very well-in my experience. Do I want to pay $1 or $2 for a machine not set up, or maintained properly-hell no. I am now picky as hell because I appreciate games that play right. Very few Op's that do it right nowadays. No way I would ever pay $2 to play JJPPOTC, even if I wanted to support small business.
I agree that the majority of the design is borrowed or copied from previous titles. He did the same thing with GOTG, it makes me think that he is under an unrealistic time restraint or something when designing? I am looking for complete originality and completely different and unique layouts. Bring back wide-bodies, subways, etc. I would like to see the 'magic' like the Bally/Williams glory days. This copy and paste design technique only adds to the whole 'cookie cutter' term that people tend to use to describe Stern games.
Quoted from dnaman:
Maybe it's time to check out JJP
You do not know how much I want to like JJP games. They are beautiful to look at, but still do nothing for me. I love the layout on Dialed In, really fun to play. It just does nothing for me with theme, and after 20 plays-I got bored. WOZ-again beautiful game and great to look at, but it has way too much going on and feels clunky to me with all the stop and go. It is a journey game and takes a 30 minute+ game to progress significantly. POTC is hit and miss for me. One day I like it and the next day I don't. I love the theme and the layout is growing on me. Not sure if I like the ship or hate it? For the price of POTC-it definitely has me considering several other titles first.
Right now in terms of creativity and originality I have Oktoberfest on my slightly interested list. Watching closely to see if it will be a good game. I thought Houdini was going to be awesome-and we all know where that ended up.
Quoted from jawjaw:
There is only so much you can do with the limited space and 2 flippers.
I disagree, Ghostbusters and Star Wars with Hyperloop & fork ramp are prime examples of creativity and originality. I do think Stern should think about wide bodies(and do away with useless pop design)-I have been preaching this for years now.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
I think you could make an argument for this being the best pro value ever.
Every time a new machine comes out Who-Dey- 'It's the best game ever!' Love your enthusiasm, but I thought Iron Maiden was the best? -Or was that yesterday's news.
Is it the most packed pro model? No
Ghostbusters-jammed packed with toys and mechs
Munsters is average-just another Borg fan layout game-rinse and repeat.
Meh-nothing special here folks, definitely not the best pro ever
Quoted from Tucks:
The game is easy. After a couple of minutes you've pretty much lit everything. As Neil McRae has pointed out, it needs a big code revamp for the pinhead community. An option you be to have 2 different codes/rules that you select at the start to keep the casual/operator players happy and us guys that need that little bit more.
I have been preaching this for years now and honestly surprised it has not been implemented yet. When you play certain video games it will prompt you at the start-the level of difficulty. Easy, Difficult, Expert. Would be great not to have to go into settings to make such adjustments. Right now I think Stern is barely able to get beta code out the door at launch-let alone multi-code levels. Still a great idea though
Holy Crap we are up to page 112 without games even being shipped yet...The hype is strong on this one Batman.
Seems like some distributors were sold out days ago-now have stock again. Probably lots of people bailing for Premium and maybe because of game reviews coming in? I think it is good for people that really want one and were unable to find one.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
However, in my opinion 5 modes on a modern pin based off of a TV show and costing $6k-$9k is not enough. For the price Stern is charging the level 2 and level 3 modes for the 5 character modes should all be unique with their own unique assets.
My problem is I keep comparing Munsters to Borg's masterpiece- X-MEN Magneto LE. X-MEN has been my favorite modern game for some time now and the amount of variety and features on that game blow Munsters out of the water. I also compare his other masterpiece-Metallica to Munsters and it makes Munsters look stripped down to me. If I did not own Borg's best games I might consider a Munsters, but right now it is not even on my slightly interested list. I do agree with you, that for what Stern is charging for this modern title-it is difficult to justify the pricing, especially when you have better options when it comes to other Borg titles. For those of you who have not checked out X-MEN LE-I highly recommend it-best modern layout.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:
Anybody who BUYS a pinball machine is coming from a position of ridiculous privilege
I would have to agree, if you can afford a NIB pinball machine nowadays-you probably are doing ok financially. Should people be worried about potentially losing money if they sell in the future-no. These are just big boy toys and if you have enough disposable income to buy one then I would consider yourself fortunate. Many LE machines have depreciated over original value recently, so chances are Munsters may depreciate as well. People should not be concerned about losing or making money off newer pins, I lost my ass on X-MEN LE-but I still flippin love it. Lost out on Ghostbusters LE-but I still love it, Lost out on Star Wars LE-but I still love it, the list goes on and on. Buy a game for the pinball passion-and sometimes you lose and sometimes you win when it comes time to sell. Funny-all of my LE machines have lost money from date of purchase-but have all become keepers-so I guess if I never sell-I never lose?
Quoted from Rarehero:
Great Borg games: Metallica, Tron, Iron Man, many would say TWD. F*cking X-Men!?!? I mean it’s not as bad as GB, but that’s some bottom of the barrel action as far as Sterns go. I’m dying at the thought of someone willingly playing that game still & listening to Shittybeast’s horrible voice.
Haha Greg with the same ol' stick about X-MEN...rinse and repeat
You may eventually have to give up on your X-MEN hatred quest because more and more people are starting to see the light. Pinball is subjective and while you do not care for X-MEN-many do. X-MEN layout kicks ass and yes the Beast shot is tight-that is the way it was designed and it makes the shot very rewarding. Awesome toys, spinning disc, magnets, pop-ups, moving Ice ramp, I mean c'mon this game is jam packed full of goodness. I will admit that the call-outs need some work-but they do not bother me.
One of your favorite games is Family Guy? Really? That game is a turd compared to X-MEN LE. That little Stewie pinball is really cute-I now know why you want a Munsters Premium-so you can play your cute Stewie pinball 2.0. Again pinball is subjective and I am genuinely happy for your excitement about Munsters. Anything to get you back into talking positive pinball talk makes me happy-otherwise just go back to complaining in your Nintendo thread.
Quoted from vireland:
The DRAGULA inserts on Munsters can now be colorized to match the flame artwork on the playfield behind them
Pin Monk-those are pretty cool
Question-Can you make me a bracket for my GOTG for the Star-lord eyes. They are supposed to be red and Stern made them orange. I am OCD and want to change them out. Can you make a filter to change to red? Thanks-sorry to be off topic
Actually-all of those gems do get me excited. All of them are great games and yes they can be considered as shallow. The guys have already nailed it when they talk about the level of fun. Would I own some of those dog day Stern's if I had a small collection-I doubt it. If I did I would probably play them and turn and burn them. What is great about these simpler titles is they help add balance to a collection. You want a hard game that is difficult to progress and conquer-go buy a AC/DC/LOTR or a WOZ. You want a basic game-fun for the friends and family buy a GOTG or a Munsters. You want something in the middle to keep your attention span longer-buy a Tron or a Star Trek. Munsters to me comes down to theme. If you have a connection with the theme, you will enjoy the game. If you do not have a connection with the Munster theme-may find another Borg layout that suits you better? I think trying to find a good balance in the collection is key to not getting tired of shallower games.
Quoted from cpr9999:
Either you like it or you don’t. Positive or negative is fine - state your thoughts and move on...move the conversation forward!
This thread would be called the owners thread and not the 'hype' thread if people would just state their opinion and move on-but it is not. This is the hype thread-people need to hype up this game and cheerlead to make Munsters look good. Other people need to bash Munsters because it is just another mediocre re-hash and they want to let people know how shallow the game is. If you are tired of people cheerleading or bitching-probably need to drain this thread and go hang out in the owner's thread. I appreciate everyone's opinions and I actually find it entertaining-good or bad-it's all good. Let the hype train keep rolling-choo choo
Quoted from Whysnow:
I think it is a good game
I think it is not a good game for operators-I think it is a GREAT game for operators. If I was an OP-Munsters would be a must for a route. What is great about Munsters for location is it is like a modern day Adam's Family. People have always been drawn to Adam's Family on location-and it usually is one of the top earners. I think Stern is killing it with Munster's, especially with route operators. This is exactly what pinball needs to increase awareness and grow the hobby.
Now for the home owner-that is a different story. I really feel you need to love the theme to relate to this title. If you grew up with the show and you have fond memories-it would probably be a good fit for you. I just feel like it is too much of a re-hashed generic layout and the theme does nothing for me personally. I am sure it is a fun shooting game, but there are several similar Borg titles with better themes in my opinion. That is what is so great about pinball is how subjective it really is. One man's turd is another man's treasure.
Hilton-How is it earning so far? How is it compared to Adam's Family-sitting next to it? I know you just got it-but I am curious?
Quoted from Whysnow:
you appear to be wrong based on first assessment.
That is interesting and not what I would have thought. Maybe some people do not even know who the Munsters are? Time will tell-but maybe you are right and it will not even come close to Adam's Family? I was thinking because they are similar in theme that people may be attracted-but maybe not?
Any other operators care to share how well their Munsters is doing on location so far?
I am wondering how strong the theme is on location. I know comparing the classic Adam's Family to Munsters is apples and oranges, but what if Munsters had same coil count and was a widebody like AF. Would it attract people like Adam's does? Is Adam's Family well known compared to Munsters franchise? Just curious how well the theme is doing on locations so far? Seems like Star Wars and Deadpool are killing it?
Quoted from Whysnow:
The theme did not help it from a route perspective
If the theme does not do it for operators-we will see the value of this title fall off quickly. They seem to be selling well and if the code is too shallow for most homeowners-it will be yard sale city in a year from now. Might be one of those titles to pick up at a bargain down the road. I have no skin in the game but will watch on the sidelines.
Quoted from britrex1:
Looking at how you've rated machines your opinion means absolutely nothing
I never looked at his ratings but wow did it change my mind on his opinions. To say Stargate is one of the best games ever and rate high, then calls Star Wars LE a turd and the hyperloop a joke-sorry Hilton but your taste are very different from mine and it goes to show that everyone has an opinion-whether good or bad. I did get a good chuckle when I looked at your ratings (: Your opinion just went out the window for me-nobody calls Star Wars a turd and has a leg to stand on.
Quoted from Squizz:
I much Prefer the way it was signed on the playfield!
Wasn't that the reason why the LE's looked to have had more clear on the playfields due to clearing the signature?
I think the reason Stern changed the signature to cards is because of all the issues with trying to sign a playfield. I can just imagine the number of playfields that Stern has had to replace because of a signature being off. I know when I purchased my Transformers LE it came with an extra playfield because Gomez signature was located under apron and you could not even see it. Or if it smudged, etc people would demand a new playfield. Smart move by Stern
Got some good time on Pro and Premium. My thoughts are the Pro was a fun game but I did not care for the Premium(I am bias because I do not like mini pf's). The Pro has great art, nice bash toy, and the two ramps were smooth and combos were really enjoyable. I did not care for the lag in gameplay after Herman ball capture with magnet-wanted to press both flippers to cancel screenshot and hurry progression of second ball launch-could be tweaked with code update. Loved the skill-shot with option to hold left flipper for orbit-really hope they implement this for GOT code update. Overall it was a fun quirky game and I may like to own down the road but it does still feel like just another bash game from Borg. I liked it but I could think of a lot of other titles I would want before buying a Munster's Pro. I give it a B(comparing to what else is currently available NIB) and it would be a good addition to people's collections if they can relate to the Munsters. If you have no connection to the theme-I feel it would get old quick, especially in a smaller collection.
The Premium to me was not enjoyable. I did not care for black and white-washed out the art, and the green GI is too overboard on the Premium compared to the Pro. I think the white background really increases the reflection compared to darker Pro that the green GI was not as bright-at least to me. Then there is the lower pf. Ok what can I say I do not like mini pf's so my opinion is just that-an opinion. First I did not like the mini pf because-I could not see the playfield. The window is already so cloudy-you can barely see what is going on. I thought to myself-what a pain in the ass that would be to take off and try and novus? and then hopefully put back on level? Actual mini-pf gameplay was not enjoyable for me and I think the tiny flippers are just not any fun-wish they would have done a full size lower pf with ocular lens or something. I give it a C+ Overall my personal opinion is the Pro is the way to go on this one.
Also played Beatles again-really like it-hope they take a dive in price so I could choke down that pill to swallow to buy one
Also played Deadpool again-it is growing on me. It has a funky clunky layout like Ripley's but it still is a fun shooter-lots of unique shots. I could see owning a Deadpool Pro down the road
JJP POTC-growing on me-still trying to justify the price and figure out what the hell I am doing.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
Also you do realize that there is only so much that a designer can do on a pinball playfield due to the limited area that he has to work with right? I dont know what people expect honestly. Every game that comes out people are like....yep more of the same, 2 ramps, 2 orbits, yada yada yada.
I disagree, there is lots a designer can do- Munster's is cookie cutter at it's best
Lots of games that fit 'outside' cookie cutter layout like....Deadpool, Iron Maiden, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, the list goes on and on. Look at all the classic Bally/Williams games and how they are all different. Yes some elements get copied from other titles but today it seems like cut and paste, especially with code for some Sterns. The good news is not all Stern's are cookie cutter and they have some cool rumored themes on the horizon. If Munsters does not do it for you-I am sure something else coming out this year will? Lots of good stuff coming-I can feel it.
Quoted from snaroff:
It has to do with time-to-market, risk taking, and inspiration.
I totally agree. Sometimes I think Stern puts unrealistic timelines on certain titles for their designers. There is so much that goes into a pinball nowadays(including new LCD coding and development) and just a delay in trying to get certain sound rights or something can throw off a project. I do think Borg is a fantastic designer and several of his games have become some of my favorites. I wish every designer would get two years and an unlimited budget-that would lead to greatness.
I do have high hopes for Steve Ritchie's game coming out
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