Not sure I have room for this and Elvira 3. Decisions, decisions.

Can't speak to SW, but that's certainly not the case with BM66. There are a few times the game holds the ball for a brief time (e.g. to the Batcave sequence) but that's it. And that's partly because the length of the sequence depends on what the player does.

The biggest issue I have with Batman is that since I'm usually playing by myself I am too busy keeping the ball in play that I haven't actually seen all the video. I've heard that some consider SW and GOTG "jukeboxes" because the video is somewhat disconnected from the game, but that's certainly not the case with BM (and may be opinions based on early code levels).

It's not reasonable to compare MBR to BM66 (or any other modern game). They are from different pin generations with different expectations of play. They were both coded by Lyman and have awesome theme integration- that's about as far as you can go.

MB wasn't ever considered a deep game compared to others in the WPC95 era and a new fancy color display on MBR isn't going to change that. But that doesn't automatically mean Munsters will be "better" even if it has more complex code.

We should know a lot more on the 12th ...

No inside knowledge but an educated guess based on comments from a couple of distributors. I'll be stunned if we don't see anything official this month.

vireland is frequently over the top. He’s never gotten over Batman not being released with 1.0 code. Stern told everyone at Expo what was going to happen, he bought the game knowing the code situation and bitched about it relentlessly for over a year. You want way over dramatic? Check out his posts in the Batman thread.

Stern has gotten significantly better with code over the last couple of years but still hasn’t reached their stated goal of feature complete at release. If that’s a problem for you, don’t buy a game until you are saisified with the code.

I bought a Batman LE because I wanted an LE and was willing to gamble that Lyman would make things right. And it was absolutely worth the gamble. But that’s the last time. I’m not going to buy and bitch.

I want both Munsters and Elvira but if I miss out on an LE because I’m not happy with the code at launch, so be it. Like everyone, I always want the code to be better. But it’s my responsibility to buy a game only when I’m happy with the code not before. I think Stern has finally learned that code matters, but we have to emphasize that by not buying games that aren’t at acceptable levels of code (or quality).

I didn’t say “don’t buy it”. I said don’t buy it until you are happy with the code. Big difference.

Those that buy and bitch are rewarding Stern for bad behavior. If buyers don’t make feature complete code a priority, Stern certainly won’t.

Coding wise it’s easy.

The work is having to develop two different versions of every audio sample.

Dwight listed the name of the voice actor in the deadflip stream but apparently my screenshot didn’t happen and I don’t remember the name. The use of a Lynde voice fits in perfectly with a game themed from a 60s sitcom.

They collect sales tax applicable to your delivery location.

Nope. They are nice, but Batman easily wins that award.

From the Stern video

1637CECD-4D18-461C-99E4-F2C5FE04E655 (resized).jpeg

768FD012-5E31-491D-9F36-277CC22C6763 (resized).jpeg

Not hardly. In Batman you are essentially playing episodes of the series, each of which is a story on its own. Each villain mode has a beginning, middle and end. I certainly didn’t see anything like that in the stream yesterday for Munsters.

That’s because the show was recorded in mono and there aren’t multiple tracks to separate.

Don’t know about IM but I cancelled my Munsters LE tonight because my wife and I decided the LE art package just didn’t do it for us. We both agree the Premium is a better fit with the theme/show.

Not if my wife is happy.

Then you aren’t paying attention to the threads. Yes, the LE is difficult to find, but there are many that gave up an LE slot (myself included) that cancelled an LE to go with another model. That LEs are sold out doesn’t mean there was more demand for LEs than Premiums, it means there is more overall demand for the game and that more people that would have been otherwise shut out of an LE now have the opportunity to get one because early LE buyers like the Premium better.

My Sterns have always been LEs. And I was expecting this to be the same. But I really preferred the art package on the Premium more than the cachet of an LE. And that seems to be the case wth a lot of folks. That’s not a knock on the LE, that’s a tip of the cap to the Premium.

Yes

That’s one thing about the Pro artwork that was a bit jarring to me. Poor attention to detail.

Are those the ones from CES? JJ was supposed to be getting those in on the floor this week.

Damn. Can’t get down there today. But I’ll be there tomorrow to decide on a Premium or a Pro!

I think that’s quite likely. And it’s certainly going to help that Lyman is doing the code - there aren’t going to be any discussions of “is the code too shallow?”

If I understood Dwight correctly on the stream, no. Can’t start level 2 until level 1 is complete. It was also unclear how level 2 was more difficult than level 1.

I’m fine with “level 1 is pretty easy if level 2 is varied and harder”. I’m not going to be interested enough in getting the game if it’s “chop wood and spend more time chopping the same wood again”.

Background - I’m very interested in Munsters. Cancelled an LE order because I really didn’t like the cabinet art and wasn’t sure about the color PF. I liked the looks of both the Premium and the Pro. But I was very concerned that the code was too shallow and wondering if the lower pf would get old in home play, and, whether it is essentially worth $1600 more than a Pro.

Played both the Premium and the Pro today for a little over an hour. Here are my initial thoughts after seeing them in person.

Pro:
- all that’s missing is the lower PF and two sign boards above the ramps. Certainly a full-featured Pro compared to some recent titles.

- Really like the translite. Best of the three games (not a big fan of the coach on the LE. Although cool, it reminds me more of the Beverly Hillbillies).

- didn’t miss not having the mini playfield during play.

- seeing the game in person changed my view on the color. It looks far too bright. If Franchi had essentially turned down the overall brightness knob and muted the colors ever so slightly it would have been a great compromise between in your face color and the black and white. I like the color far less in person than in the pictures and videos I’ve seen. The other thing that was very noticeable was the the green GI and colored LEDs gave the playfield even more saturated color during play which made the color playfield even more bothersome/annoying to me.

Premium:
- don’t really like that the art on both sides of the cabinet is just flipped. I would have liked to see a b&w version of the left side Pro cabinet art.

- the lower playfield cover needed adjustment. The ball was noticeably deflected because the cover was not level. I presume that’s because it wasn’t adjusted after being set up but am wondering if this could be a long term issue.

Also wondered if you could avoid this problem by taking off the cover and putting the Pro version of the petg playfield protector (assuming one is made) over the playfield or if the protector isn’t thick enough to cover over that large a hole without dipping.

- I don’t like the Premium translite as much as the Pro. Wondered if the Pro translite would look out of place on the Premium. But not enough of an issue to rule out the Premium

- liked the mini playfield. Fun. Still not sure if it will get old in home play after the novelty wears off. It would be ideal if there is a setting to disable it if ou don’t want the flow of the game interrupted (which I really didn’t mind).

- The black/white/grayscale art looks AWESOME in person. The pictures and video to date has not done it justice. The green GI is absolutely perfect and the other LEDs add enough color (light shows are awesome) to complement the b&w art. If you are on the fence because you aren’t sure you will like black and white or you think it looks dated or won’t fit in your collection go see one in person before you order. Any doubt about the b&w art I may have had is gone.

- I didn’t like the placement of the two sets of flipper buttons. Changing from one to another didn’t feel as smooth as I thought it should, but I’m sure this is more of a personal preference rather than a design issue.

The Premium was on 0.90 code. Don’t know about the Pro.

I was initially comparing the video to that of Batman 66 which is a very unfair comparison because Munsters use more or less random interchangeable clips that enhance the theming but don’t really add anything to the game play and uses a lot more custom art. The font is more annoying in person, but a minor complaint. The strange thing is that it still fits because the game does feel like an homage to the WPC era when games were simpler.

That brings me to what I was most concerned about - code depth. I got to Munster Madness one game. I’m really not that good of a player and I was more interested in seeing how particular shots were than trying to get a great score so I was kind of surprised.

But I found the game very fun to shoot. I have never had a Borg game so although the layout is familiar to some it was new to me. I absolutely loved the ramps and will probably spend a lot of time just trying to do left/right ramp combos. The left ramp disappearing behind the playfield and the 180 on the right ramp are great. Anyone who has a BM66 and doesn’t like how the orbit shots are so tight will love the smooth as butter orbit shots. Didn’t mind the long Dragula target but Lily should have been individual stand ups or drops (I love drop targets).

In a large collection or for those of us that aren’t pro level players I think the game will be fine. What I saw of the code depth doesn’t bother me as much as it did when I was just watching other people play. It was just fun. A little hectic and some “I really don’t know what’s going on here”. I love the music and the laugh track (if you don’t, it will get old. Think Disney and Small World). And using a Paul Lynde sound alike was brilliant and will be appreciated by anyone who remembers 60’s sitcoms. If Dwight’s vision was “old school, but modern” then this game seems to have hit the mark.

When I went in, I thought I was leaning Pro over Premium. That flipped. If there was a b&w Pro, I’d probably prefer that just because I think the lower pf is fun, but not a must have. Or maybe a Premium with a lower pf in color. But don’t think having/not having the lower pf is going to matter either way long term.

Oh yeah - the Dragula car on the playfield is a tiny, disappointing waste of space. I’m sure the modders will come up with a kickass replacement though.

I don’t have too many pictures because the overhead glare in the front of the Game Exchange showroom made it difficult to get some good shots.
015A62A6-0810-4017-982D-E237F0F42436 (resized).jpeg59E1938F-F2D4-4EC6-AF5B-90888236A488 (resized).jpeg5E150A12-C711-402F-8BCA-D7507B1E6B68 (resized).jpeg7A41D488-FD99-455A-B175-489EFAD7A3D8 (resized).jpeg87EF1F14-371D-4F9C-9F69-3979574F3B09 (resized).jpegC09E2BF1-4248-4444-AA07-FA5DCD8FA241 (resized).jpegEE02F70F-625B-45F1-83BC-F2F87A8D8116 (resized).jpegEEB754BE-3704-4F4E-BB3C-DEDF1762BEF4 (resized).jpegF1F9510C-4611-4826-9D5F-F66DCB07B721 (resized).jpegFF3B9511-0CFE-47D6-97C3-4F867BD5A69B (resized).jpeg

Nope. Played for over an hour. Didn’t get old at all. I’ve always loved that theme and this is a fun rendition.

Good point. I had noticed the insert differences. Don’t think the sign boards are anything anyone is going to miss if they go with a Pro.

I also forgot to mention that the “cut and paste” of the artwork on the Pro covering the lower pf window looks significantly better in person (i.e. the octopus tentacle looks like it’s coming out of the floor)

Sorry for messing up the thread

Talked to a small group of people today and there was no consensus:

Love the mini playfield
The mini playfield isn’t worth the $
Love the B&W
Hate the B&W
Glad I got the LE - love the coffin
Don’t like the LE so looking at the others
The color looks great
The color is too bright
I don’t like the translite as much as the one on the LE/Premium/Pro

That’s the beauty of the three models - something for everyone. Pick the one that has the fewest things you dislike.
But I didn’t hear anyone say “Nope. Not interested in any of them”

When I saw it I thought it looked exactly like a WPC low voltage reboot. It was a little startling. But it’s most likely a power issue, not related to node boards.

However that does raise a good point. My biggest concern about buying any new Stern game is the long term viability/repair ability/availability (and non-standardization) of node boards 3-5-10 years down the road. This is the first Spike 2 game I’ve had any serious interest in other than Batman. There are a number of other threads to talk about those issues, but there is an inner voice aware of that concern slightly tempering the childlike excitement and anticipation of a new game.

Code on the Premium I played yesterday is version 0.90

There are dozens of posts on “how it is” in the various Munster threads

That’s clearly true in the current code.

However, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It should do well on location and with casual players because of that. And for most home collectors having a game that’s fun to shoot and just score points on is fine as part of a larger collection.

The Munsters may become this pinball generation’s Creature - a good looking game with solid theme integration and catchy music that’s relatively easy for anyone to play.

Correct.

It’s deeper than ToM for sure and probably similar to AFM/MM however it feels like something is missing compared to AFM/MM (perhaps because it’s easier to figure out what you have to do on those games). Munsters will be fine for most households unless someone is a pro level player.

No. It will be a couple weeks.

With all the cost cutting I’ll bet we never see Stern do something like this. Cool idea though.

1000 thumbs up if I could. Most obvious design flaw in the game for sure. I don’t really like (but understand) the Dragula target. But it is very easy to complete without trying and provides near zero challenge. Doesn’t help that the Dragula animation is one of the weakest in the game and yet one you see over and over.

Because they cut more and more features while raising prices?

Interesting. I felt just the opposite - much more striking in person.

Pretty much agree with everything else though have changed my mind from “too simple/easy/shallow” to “shallow may be ok in this case”.

I’m sorry. That segment came across as “fan boys who didn’t pay attention selling the game”. Neither had apparently played the it, but that didn’t stop them from practically drooling over every aspect of the game.

I generally like them but this was too early and over the top.

Bug or feature -

My wife and I played a number of two player games yesterday. After punching in player 2 the game stayed with Player 2 displayed and player 2 played first, then the game went to player 1.

Was this backwards because the norms in the Munsters are backwards? Or just a bug in the 0.90 level code?

Either way, it was very confusing. Should have thought to try a 3 or 4 player game to see what happened with those.

Code is at 0.90 now. Not sure it’s reasonable to expect a drastic change without buy in from Dwight and perhaps not even then. Certainly Stern has an idea of early interest (which seems to be far better than other recent titles) which doesn’t seem to be impacted by the currently implemented code.

Nice work!

Don't think that’s possible. There are only two switches and there are 4 (or 7) letters to spot.

So on the L I L Y targets you only want it to register if you hit the area by first L or the Y? I’m confused.

Another reason why it may not be deep - Stern may have significantly underestimated how long it takes to develop software for games in the LCD era and effectively use the available video assets (or develop custom ones).

Compare use of AV assets in Batman vs. Munsters - huge difference. The Munsters clips are borderline generic and generally don’t relate to game play other then depicting the related major character. In Batman you essentially play through an episode of the show with playfield shots directly related to the clips used.

In the LCD era people are going to want to play iconic moments of the show or movie or whatever the license brings not just flip through random 5 second clips more suited for a slot machine. But how do you balance that goal with the time and resources necessary to do that? Video is orders of magnitude harder than dots.

As awesome as the Batman code is, look how long it took. Granted some of that may be fairly attributed to growing pains on the new platform and essentially redesigning game play on the fly but imagine the time it took Lyman just to identify the episodes to use and then how to match the play with the flow of the show. Stern can’t afford to do that every game like JJP.

So the idea of “Munsters as a throwback to less complicated games” helps because it reduces the complexity of integrating specific assets and one required to do so. That’s fine for a game every cycle or so, but it shouldn’t become the norm.

Correct.

I’ve played it, but still haven’t decided. I’m more likely than not to buy one so giving you a thumbs up anyway. But I would have flipped the thumbs up/down criteria.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/munsters-is-coming/page/109#post-4792286

Except there is absolutely no reason to be an early adopter unless you just have to have an LE. Premiums and Pros will be available NIB for years.

I loved the idea of MB. I kept an original NOS playfield from 1998/1999 for years. Finally had the playfield cleared and had a fantastic restoration done. The game was a crown jewel in my game room. It didn’t last much more than six months. It was beautiful, I loved the music, but it was just so shallow. And I’m not a very good player. Sold one of the nicest MBs that probably exist and don’t regret it for a second.

I think Munsters is shallow (currently) but I would absolutely choose it over MB/MBR

Unfortunately when JJP looked like it was for real Stern used the cover of JJPs higher prices to raise their own without any significant increase in build quality. The JJP LEs are the best thing ever to happen for Stern.

OMG! Batman is absolutely an untouchable game for me. Can’t imagine any game I would consider selling it for.

Hope you weren’t a huge fan of it and that Munsters works out for you (or that you can get a Batman back easily)

Bat-karma is a bitch ...

No reason any more to waste a coil on a knocker any more. Let that be a generational thing. Folks new to pinball generally don’t know what it means anyway.

It’s pretty clear that for this game it’s made some difference. I know it has for me. I’ve delayed a decision on Munsters and the side unitargets played a part.

I suspect there’s plenty of wiggle room to have included a 4 target bank in these games. But Stern profitability is focused on having us pay more for less. It’s not going to change unless they see it costing them real money.

Take the return of real cabinet braces to games. Did they do that because so many were asking for them? No they did it because the cost of replacing/replacing games damaged by the cheaper cabinets probably exceeded the incremental cost of them by a significant amount.

It’s also awesome to make a great shot on a Gottlieb EM with 2” flippers and hear the score reels turn. Doesn’t mean I need that satisfaction in a modern game.

Of all the things that have been removed from the recent generations of games the loss of the cabinet knocker bothers me the least.

Because for some of us that like desirable old man themes that don’t like to churn through games or have to sell a favorite to make room for a new game, theme and decent game play is no longer enough. Deep code will almost always tip the scale for a home buyer.

Munsters should do very well on location. But not so sure about homes.

This old guy was excited Day 1 for Munsters. Probably would have bought already at a lower price point despite the code because I have a large enough collection. Still want one, but waiting. I was going to buy Batman no matter what (and I bought early) but the days of “barfing up cash because it’s purdy” are over.

I think/hope most Pinsiders know that. These are still commercial machines with a coin door.

I also suspect private sales in general are a far higher percentage than Stern admits (though since thy don’t sell direct they may not care).

And I didn’t say designing a game that will probably do better on location was bad. Just that sales on the Munsters will probably swing more to the operator/location side as long as the code is considered shallow. (Look what happened to Batman after the code matured and got far deeper - sales spiked despite the higher pricing on the Premium)

Yup. Agree 100%.

I just wish the games with shallow code weren’t ones with themes I really like

Waiting to buy a JJP Toy Story if done well. Family been wanting this ever since the initial rumors. Helps that we are all Toy Sory/Disney fans.

Probably not intrested enough in Willy Wonka to buy one.

Only themes current/rumored we will consider buying NIB are Munsters, Elvira 3, Toy Story, Back to the Future, maybe Bond.

If isn’t fun, I’m not buying it in the first place no matter how deep the code.

Your logic is flawed. If I think a game is a turd I’m never going to buy it even if it has deep code.

I’m not saying I won’t buy a game with shallow code if I think it’s fun. One of my favorite games is CFTBL. Not sure there is a modern SS game that has shallower code. It has great theme integration and I love to play it. It will be one of the last games to leave my collection.

I’m saying that if I’m going to buy a new game at today’s prices - and displace a game I already love - it has to have everything for me and have a strong chance of being a long term keeper. It has less chance of being a keeper with shallow code because part of the fun for me is challenging myself to get to stuff I’ve never or rarely done before.

No need to change dip switches. Either the game doesn’t recognize the code on the USB stick (usually because it wasn’t loaded properly), the USB stick itself is bad or unrecognized (probably because it’s too big) or the USB port you are using on the CPU board is bad (try the other one)

Hint - run a USB extension cable from the backbox to the coin door down the left inside of the cabinet. Makes code updates much easier.

The biggest difference is (and it’s huge) BM66 code was alpha (.64 if I recall) where Munsters is essentially done (.91). And then Lyman essentially started over en route to make Batman the game we have today.

Zero indication we will see any Lyman-like effort to fundamentally change the Munsters. Hope so, but not counting on it.

.91 doesn’t mean done and the release numbers are somewhat meaningless EXCEPT that George indicated not too long ago that 1.00 was going to be used to mean essentially feature complete. Given that you can surmise that a game at .91 is close to complete than one at .64

No, I don’t. But I never claimed too.

I too love the theme. I really enjoyed the few games I have played so far.

I was planning to buy Day 1, but have decided to wait and see what happens with the code because I’m concerned it will get old FOR ME at home if the current code is pretty close to all there is going to be. My impression is that this is similar to a modern Monster Bash, a game I coveted for years, but lasted a very short time when it was in my game room. Not sure how that makes me a basher ...

I may still get a Premium or a Pro, but they will be making them for years. I don’t have to have one tomorrow.

I preferred the Premium because I like the lower playfield (and the fact you can disable it if you want and use Pro rules). But I loved how smooth the Pro was.

When I played it was on a Premium where the playfield cover wasn’t flush/level so there was some ball misdirection and speed loss so it felt slower than the Pro. IMO, the Premium was fast, the Pro blazingly fast. Game play is all but identical except for Grandpa’s lab. If you don’t have a strong preference then the question boils down to “Is the mini playfield worth $1600 to you?”

I happen to like the black & white art package better, so I suspect if I get one it will be a Premium if I am reasonably confident the cover can be leveled correctly. But waiting to make a final decision (probably until fall) to see what happens with the code.

I’m stumped - what is JAFL?

Umm, no.

Nah. The only one really squealing was vireland and that was his own fault. The impatient ones sold and those that hung on were rewarded with a Lyman masterpiece and a game that will probably go down has having one of the best thematic integrations ever. Yes there are a few design flaws, but demand for HUO games exceeds supply (no apparent price softening) and Stern is running another batch soon because distributors want more. And the LEs have gone up, perhaps because the LEs were actually limited (SLEs are another story).

Munsters Pro should hold its value reasonably well because it’s not really dumbed down game play wise. I suspect both the Premiums and LEs will take a resale hit because of the “is the lower playfield really worth $1600?”, the divide on the color vs Black/White art and the relative number of LEs.

Then, just like you didn’t pay attention with what we were told about the Batman code at the time, you haven’t been paying attention to what Dwight has said.

While I agree with you that the Munsters code feels shallow and unfinished at release (though not quite as BM66) Dwight has made it quite clear that the current code is pretty much the intended design/direction for the game. Although many would like to see a Batman-like code transformation I just don’t see that happening.

Batman Premium sales initially floundered because of code. By all accounts Munsters is selling very well. I may be in the minority as I cancelled an LE order in part because of the level of game play. I’m waiting to see what happens with code and may get a Premium or Pro, but I don’t think Stern is going to beef up the code unless they believe sales are being significantly impacted.

What’s the initial thinking from LE owners on long term playability of the lower PF? Do you think the novelty will wear off?

I agree about HH/BH. Was just playing HH today and thinking how much of a difference full size flippers and drop targets make compared to what I remember from the few games I’ve played on a Munsters Premium. I like the Munsters implementation much better than Stewie pinball but having a hard time deciding if I would like it long term to pay the difference between a Pro and a Premium.

I cancelled my LE because I just didn’t like the art package. I really like the b/w on the Premium over the color on the LE/Pro but just haven’t decided if it’s worth $1600 for the lower playfield. The Pro may be good enough even though it seems to be cheating by having the color playfield when the series is so identified by black and white.

Yes, yes and yes. My initial reason for going to TPF this year.

Glad there are no pinball loving porch pirates in your area ...

Not a fan of Grand Theft Pinball.

Munster Madness was already pretty easy. Not sure why a new version was made easier.

With the code at .96 now I don’t expect any major adds period.

I’m glad you like the game. I like it too but am waiting 6 months or so to see if I actually want to own one long term.

The Install settings you mention simply set a series of individual adjustments. Think of them as a shortcut for entering a series of specific values for some number of adjustments. Each of those adjustments are static and don’t change the game code but change parameters the code uses (e.g. how many shots to x are required to satisfy goal y or is a required to do b).

For example, if there is an adjustment for a HARD setting it might disable ball save and set the number of shots needed to complete three different modes (or whatever) to the maximum number (e.g. don’t spot any S-P-O-T lights) or an adjustment for HOME would automatically set Free Play to YES.

No need for hype once a pin is available and people can see it, play it and decide for themselves.

Agree. It has more to do with the depth of code than anything else. Some are upgrading from Pros to Premiums, but it seems like there is a fair amount of concern about longevity in a collection and the quick exits from collections are more than normal flipping.

Assuming there is no significant code update the next 4-6 months will give us an idea if Munsters is a true hit or a could have been that benefited from early sales and a theme so many wanted to see succeed.

Just saw the first Pro for sale under $5k at $4800. Pretty sure it’s the TPF raffle winner but it’s disappointing to see all these Pros for sale so quickly and the $5k line being broken so soon.

I have a sad feeling that Stern doesn’t have much more time for Munsters sales and that if Elvira 3 comes out this fall as expected that will further cannibalize sales since I expect the two games will appeal to the same buyers and Elvira certainly won’t have shallow code with Lyman at the helm.

Damn. That sucks.

Much of the handwringing on Munsters is not coming from Stern haters but from Munsters fans that really wanted the game to be a success but are concerned that the code is too dumbed down for a modern game. Fun layout (except for the stupid monotargets and lack of drop targets), fantastic ramps and good/great art packages.

And yet you trash the Elvira design before you even see it to make Munsters look better? Come on. You have fanboy blinders on and that is just as bad as those that hate for the sake of hating. Bullshit is bad whether it’s positive or negative.

Like you, I don’t worry about the resale value of my games because I’m a buy and hold type. But resale concerns me as part of the overall market and as an indicator of how well a particular title is received because that will determine what level of resource Stern will put into a game post-release. That’s especially important to me for games I want (like Munsters). Yes, I’m sure there will be some that buy both Munsters and Elvira. But more will have to choose one or the other because of money and/or space.

For me, it should have been easy because I like the Munsters theme a lot more than Elvira. I’m upset not because of what Munsters is today but that it almost certainly will not become what it could have/should have been. And Stern has telegraphed pretty clearly that what we see now is pretty much it which means a Munsters Premium in my game room has gone from a certain lock to less than a 50/50 proposition.

Read the first line of your post I responded to which clearly inferred that the Elvira design won’t be as good as Munsters even if the code is.

I’m pretty sure I did respond to your other question elsewhere. I have played both Munsters Pro and Premium multiple times (easily over 100 games) in multiple venues with both early and current code. Did I have a decent understanding of the rules the first time I played? No. But I learned them quickly and discovered that, with a few exceptions, Munsters is essentially a one-trick-maximize-the-jackpots-pony. That’s not enough for me to own an $8k game no matter how much I like the theme. If that’s enough for you, great. I hope you enjoy the game for years.

What you seem to be forgetting is that unlike many other games just off the line where the code was just the foundation, Dwight has made it very clear that the Munsters code is essentially done. If that changes, I’m sure many will reconsider the game. ST and BM66 are great examples of games whose sales improved as a direct result of code improvements. But if Stern doesn’t believe they will get enough of a sales boost by improving the code they won’t spend the money to do so.

Stern dumbed down Borg’s design by removing the drop targets, the very cool Grandpa’s trap door and an unspecified mech in the back of the game so we already know John planned for Munsters to be better. If buyers keep settling for “good enough” why should Stern change? It’s too late for the hardware. Maybe they have met their forecasted sales targets and don’t care. But if all Stern hears is “Munsters is the greatest game ever” there’s no need for them to beef up the code. There is absolutely no reason why Munsters can’t be more approachable for casual players as Dwight wanted (as it is) and be deeper for better players or home buyers.

Not every game Stern makes is great. Some are. Munsters should have been great. It still can be and I’m hoping that it will. But I’m realistic enough to know that’s more unlikely than not. And with the number of games for sale so soon in the lifecycle it looks like others agree. Every secondary market sale is one less potential sale for a distributor and one less game off the assembly line which doesn’t do anything for Stern.

I don’t. Only a few people in Stern know the actual figures, but it’s a pretty safe assumption.

There is a concept in business known as ROI (return on investment). Most successful businesses don’t make an investment unless the investment is expected to return more than what would have otherwise been expected. In the case of software that return could be measured in incremental unit sales (Munsters games) or customer goodwill (buyers have faith that Stern will improve the code and are willing to gamble on being an early adopter).

Look at Batman 66 - perfect example of both. Stern said at the outset that Lyman would be allowed to complete the code to his vision. As it became clear that was happening, Premium demand increased and multiple additional runs of the game resulted. Early buyers of the game - most of whom spent more money on a Stern game than ever before - had their faith in Stern renewed/increased because the company fostered goodwill by keeping that promise. Win-Win.

If Stern is happy with sales to date and projected sales meet expectations then the only reason to change course on the software plan would be to improve goodwill and that still involve some sort of ROI decision.

I agree 100%. I’ve long given up on ‘best games possible’. I expect Stern to have some so-so games, some good games and some great games. I’m just disappointed Munsters isn’t likely to end up in the latter category.

We should all be grateful to the cash infusions to both Stern and JJP that allowed both to stay relevant in pinball.

If you un-ignore me, get over the Batman thing, and be nice, I’ll tell you.

Buy pins whose themes you like AND code you can be happy with.

I *love* almost everything about the Munsters game. Except the code. I’m disappointed I don’t own one. But I would have been *pissed* if I hadn’t cancelled my LE order when I did and feel badly for those let down by Stern (especially those who got an LE only because there wasn’t a color Premium option)