(Topic ID: 217394)

The Munsters Hype (Because every evening its Halloween)


By Macca101010

1 year ago



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Topic index (key posts)

4 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #550 Munsters Premium and LE cabinet art Posted by pinsanity (1 year ago)

Post #8004 0.96 Code change summary Posted by PanzerFreak (9 months ago)


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#186 1 year ago
Quoted from Budman:

At least tell us if it will be a fourth quarter launch....?

Joe K said their title with Stern will be oct/nov (Expo...). Seems pretty obvious to me that Munsters aligns with Ka-Pow's business... so put those two things together.

#190 1 year ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Munsters isn't supposed to a Ka-pow title from what information is out there. It is Borg's next game.

Kapow doesnt design the games either way. Its a partnership that is more about securing resources and marketing.

For instance... pooling assets

3 months later
#1177 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Did you listen to the podcast more than once?
The issue of cost was specifically asked and specifically stated not crazily priced.
Unless your saying he’s full of shit.
Didn’t say it was cheap but they make Beatles everything from magnets, backpacks,lamps, bedding, really everything you can imagine.

You are also listening to the salesman... remember that

2 months later
#2740 11 months ago

I can't believe ppl still ignore the fact stern has been marketing titles at non pinball shows. Guys... ces is coming. Don't get all wound up till right for then. Stern has prepped their dealers typically ~1 week prior and that's when the detailed photo sets leak.

Joe k originally said Beatles would be in Jan (ces). So these two titles swapped places. Ces is jan8. So we will probably see stuff right after the new year

EAG in the up is the following week. So stern is probably boating some to be there for that show

#2813 11 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Im going to call Chaz but im 100% sure that they haven’t redesigned the newton balls. If they still arent putting metal posts in MET games instead of plastic ones 6 years later, i can guarantee you that they will never make a better newton ball switch lol.

Did you get the pointed studs for the newton ball mech?

1 week later
#3035 11 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Agree on seeing Munsters teaser/ reveal early Jan. Stern is bringing their latest game to CES - which means 3 versions of GOTG. Newest does not not DP, Beatles nor Primus, more or less relatively new. Stern will also be showcasing their new digital pinball. Accessible on multiple platforms, Ghostbusters will be highlighted and maybe available in virtual reality too. There are no indications we will see Munsters at CES.
[quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]

Why would you expect them to mention the game they haven't announced yet? You don't put the surprise in your PR... nor do you undercut any exclusives you've setup. Duh

The only question would be is if it's CES or EAG. I would expect them to do it as cES so they get the media cycle.

#3036 11 months ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

... @ weinermobile
Stern will just pop this game public one of these days. No guessing on their marketing.
You'd have thought we would have seen this game by now.

The release cadence has been known for a long time... there is no delay. Its just a topic of release order. When they did Beatles first... well the next time slot was basically set

1 week later
#3502 11 months ago
Quoted from J85M:

Not if the rumours that there is a B&W version are true, it’s already an asset they have created, they will have stock already and the line will already have both versions planned for builds.
Just add an extra LE to the mix, which wouldn’t be a first for Stern adding an additional release to a title it happened with TWD when they added the Prem after the demand for the LE was so great.

They order stock based on expected numbers... having stock doesn't mean excess.

Two... what you see as easy... stern and distributors see as a big expensive box they need to move...(sell)

#3539 11 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

Easy solution: release a color version and a black and white version for all trim levels. That way you don’t alienate a potential buyer and give everyone the option to pick their color option. I personally haven’t seen the final art package yet, but definitely looking forward to the reveal.

Again... stern is not a build to order setup. When you offer variations... that creates fragmentation in supply and inventory. Stern and distributors risk getting stuck with games and parts that have already been paid for... but unsold.

#3629 11 months ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

Were you not around when Iron Maiden was released?

And all the complaints about the backbox art choices...
and the complaints about the premium colors...
And the complaints about it not being archer enough...

Yeah sure people loved the loaded Pro and the return of some things like PF rails... but that doesn't mean the complainers weren't still there.

#3633 11 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

IMO the answer is simple: it's a risk. They don't want people passing on the LE because the costs of the extra stuff is less than the markup, it's easy money. The Premium isn't as big a risk because if there's a backlash they just roll out Prem V2 Now In Color™ and people deal with it. They can't change the LE, it will set a bad precedent, but we've already seen the 'new' Premium thing before.

Yup!

Just size the runs right and go whatever way the market dictates.

18
#3679 11 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Ok, how the phunk does anyone know about ramps and wireforms on the lower pf?!? Pics or its all bull$pit.

If you've been here for 3+ years and still don't know how to respect mnpinball's connections ... please refrain from posting till you catch up

#3764 11 months ago
Quoted from Patrunkenphat7:

I don’t understand why they are doing a live Twitch reveal in the middle of the day on a Tuesday. I enjoy watching pinball on Twitch, but like the vast majority of people I will be at work at that time.
Regardless, excited to see the VOD after.

... because it’s being revealed at a live in person event that is not setup to revolve where you and others are at the time?

Expect it to have press coverage synced to it and the info coming from the show. The live steam is the tail...

#4002 11 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

What version is he playing right now?

LE

-1
#4035 11 months ago

wow... no ball save at all in the game per Zach. Wait for those whines to roll in

-5
#4046 11 months ago

cue the complainers...

"wheres my ball saver..."
"the animations are too long" (aka Ghostbusters...)
"I want a color premium..."

#4337 11 months ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

What’s the official word on sales tax for out-of-state purchases as a phone order?

That's not a Stern question... that's a question that depends on what state you live or buy in, and what their plans are for forcing out of state sellers to collect tax.

#4493 11 months ago
Quoted from jfh:

That’s because the show was recorded in mono and there aren’t multiple tracks to separate.

No, it just means the old tracks aren't available..

The laugh track was added in production - it wasn't part of the live mic. It's just the old masters probably are long gone since it was just a TV show...

#4544 11 months ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

I've had these Tweeterhead Munsters statues for a number of years now. Amazing dead-on sculpts by Trevor Grove, paint design by David Fisher, and Grandpa's Playghoul cover design by Olivia De Berardinis.
[quoted image]
Does anyone have any idea how Stern's art ended up with the exact same poses in the exact same sequence? And note that Spot and the TV with Zombo and the cat are also in the same positions. Weird, huh?
[quoted image]
Having watched the show countless times, the one pose that really stands out to me is Marilyn's. I don't recall seeing her standing around holding Spot's collar with her back arched in this same way and while wearing this same colored dress on what was a B&W TV show. We've got a matching Playgoul cover here, too.
Who was first with this? Was Chris Franchi involved with the Tweeterhead project with Trevor Grove? Did Grove copy some earlier art from Franchi? Is there some sort of full-color publicity still or character study that NBC Universal Television was forcing both artists to work off of independently? And what about the Playgoul cover? I have no clue here.
Anyway, whatever the story is, if you're looking for topper ideas, you might want to head on over to eBay and grab a set of these statues. I own the B&W set, myself. It's stunning in person!

The same copycat art was present in Batman too... I’d say it’s just franchise style to redraw exisiting stuff

#4596 11 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

There's no good excuse other than licensing for not having a Sonic the Hedgehog pinball yet.

Besides the high rate of flops for other video game crossover projects?

#4602 11 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Sonic Pinball would actually kinda make sense...since he's often rolled into a ball, moving super fast, and traveling on loops & corkscrews. It would translate to pinball well. They could even ship it with blue balls!

You mean like this?

#5064 10 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

I guess the Pinball Flippers are the ones that are upset as it decreases their resale value!

Flipper or not... people were paying a premium for (in part) is promised exclusivity. Stern changed this AFTER marketing and having orders taken for the game.

It would be one thing if it was announced, and just not ready for sales.. but they had opened sales for the title. At that point, money and agreements are already flowing.. it's bad form to dillute what you sold people on at that point.

Legal? Easily defended especially if they let prior buyers walk away without consequence
But optics? It's bad..

Either way, Stern probably bets on 'money today...' and hopes everyone will just be as hungry next time.

16
#5697 10 months ago

why is everyone so fixated on starting the level 1 mayhem?

You should be talking about who is managing to stack their supers WITH the multiplier up, then starting the payoff mode.

The game has a playfield multiplier that you can reset the timer on! The juice is in the delayed jackpots, multipliers, and then collecting your mini-wiz mode.

It's like BSD or ACDC... the thrill isn't in simply starting the objective.. it's getting the objective with the right things together.

#5710 10 months ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

Iv thought about this often. Is it a good code/Pin if your not fixated on getting to Munster madness?!?! Is it good if you can push that out of your head and conceive it’s in an essence an easy mini wizard that is simply a step going forward to the next level for an even greater amount of scoring potential.

My point was, that one objective really isn't the only thing to the game.. and from a player perspective (since that is what this fuss has paraded itself as), it's likely not even the most interesting/impactful part of the game.

The game isn't a closed mode game... its a 'feature' game where you enable things and those boost your scoring potential by changing things or giving you different objectives.

As a player, the biggest thing that stood out to me was the kitty awards, and then hearing the timer can be RESET.. when it was already a minute to start with? Helllooo... that's where I'm looking unless the wizard mode somehow has exponential scoring compared to the rest of the normal game scoring.

Not everyone needs to be a great player looking to exploit games to the max... but please [random thread complainer] don't scream from the mountain tops about how awful something is when you don't even know how to dissect what is there and its potential.

The irony is the over simplified players are complaining about the features made so the game is more approachable to the simple players! *facepalm*

If the wizard mode should be the focus of 'good' or 'fun'... I think that's just simplifed thought and not really a universal question/answer. The game needs to provide satisfaction and reward to be fun... that doesn't always come from the wizard mode. Encore in AC/DC is brutal to even attempt to get to on standard settings.. I don't even try, and it doesn't impact what I find the game to be fun or not.

12
#5773 10 months ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

Yes I agree! I just think the structure is different from what we are accustomed to

I think people just get so single tracked on how they think things 'should be' and lash out when its not. "non-mode" or games focused like that are very common.. even if not in latest releases. I mean, it's not like this is a dead concept.

AC/DC is a bit of hybrid.. along with GOT.. in the sense there are "modes" but they aren't really exclusive or lock out most other game play. You complete objectives to open up other things.

IronMan, Avengers, Metallica, TRON, Transformers(?), WPT, Stones, Avatar, etc I would argue are more in this 'features' vs 'modes' design we see with munsters. And if you go back to the WPC era.. there are many more familiar faces.. T2, FishTales, BSD, etc.

I'd argue you really have three styles out there in the DMD+ era... feature games, mode complete games, and mode-exclusive games.

I think in the era of 'crazy number of modes' people are getting lazy and just associating "number of modes" with deep or not. Deep reflects not how many modes or things must be done... but how nuanced and varied the game play is.

A game that had 30 modes of all doing the same stuff.. in the same manner.. I would not call deep. That's just scale. (and why people hate on woodchopping titles like Avengers). Contrast that with a game like Maiden, where HOW you score points and HOW you progress can be very extremely varied with lots of different paths available to you.

The other angle people munge is 'easy' or not with something being 'deep' or 'shallow'. TOM for instance... TOM is a game that most decent players should be able to play through quite easily. It has a decent number of modes... 8.. two multiballs.. etc. So it's not short in that category. But I wouldn't call it a deep game - again not because its easy - but because it's pretty dang linear in how things are done and points happen. Besides stacking vanish.. what variety is there in the way you play through the game? There is little branching in what to do.. and there is very little scoring difference in how you play (minus the 100mil jackpot). Where as a game like TNA is pretty damn simple, but very nuanced in how scoring and objectives pan out.

Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

I’m just hoping those other elements give me satisfying game play. Such as the kitty you talked about or trying to stack Lilly with the other modes. Or hitting jackpots and relighting them. Honestly seems like a fairly complex code. My fingers are crossed that this equates to FUN!

Yup.. and why I don't really give any thought to all the armchair quarterbacks who grade games at release. Plus, what invokes reactions from people vary.. and I don't think you really know what feels 'satisfying' until you are in the drivers seat.

YMMV

1 week later
-1
#6130 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

This reminds me of a time a LONG time ago when a game company sent out a wrestling game to the press that sucked as a wrestling game, so the PR firm sent it with a multi-page set of instructions as to how to play it not as a wrestling game to make it fun. Unfortunately, even with their anti-instructions, it still was not fun. I think I still have that letter. Point is, you can explain how a game is supposed to be played, but if it's repetitive or boring or not fun, that's the key takeaway. BTW the not-wrestling wrestling game bombed.
Hoping Dwight is burning the midnight oil with a couple jr programmers and artists to get more code into the game.

A better analogy would be a movie based pin based on ghosts... and on the day it first showed up... all anyone could do is get the same dog based mode. So immediately pinside rags on the game endlessly about this repetitive mode as if that and the easy multiball is all the game is about.

It's about some people getting fixated on the first thing they can latch onto... instead of having the patience to make sure they are taking the whole picture in before drawing their conclusions.

15
#6432 10 months ago

It's pretty easy to boil down..

Look at a game like TWD... brutal play and complex rules as to why/when things happen. The casual to middle of the pack have no idea what is going on and the game gets a general 'meh' from a large portion of the population. But player players love it. The difference between mediocre

A game like munsters is simple and easy to get to the 'satisfying' rewards. It's pretty... the theme is relatively accessible as well. So it will be appealing to a WIDER audience than TWD was... even if TWD is a "better' game.

Point being... what defines "good" or "best" depends on what you are trying to achieve or what you value. Not everyone values the same things, or to the same degree.

It's why games like Theatre of Magic still demand a premium vs other games that are significantly "better" games in terms of rules, strategy, toys, sound, etc.

TL : DR - "Different Strokes for Different Folks"

#6504 10 months ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Are you sure you’re not on Stern’s payroll? Lol
You’re trying to explain away a currently shallow coded game as okay. Again it’s only okay if they charge a great deal less.

Complete bullshit.

The purpose of the game is to entertain... HOW it does that there are diffrent ways. Your theory suggests it’s a 1: 1 correlation between code scale and worth. And what is entertaining to one type of consumer is not the same to all consumers.

Your post is just copycat thinking verse creatives who devise the winning formulas.

Hobbit is the poster child for mawr is better! But it’s not.

Correlation is not causation

2 weeks later
#7301 9 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Munsters is bugging me a bit because the entire game bases itself on the principle of choosing to not score points in the hope of scoring more points later. It's inherently not fun.

I've heard this compared to say Jackbot or Batman66, but that's way off. There's plenty of other chances to score big points in those games that don't rely on "delayed gratification

Like... delaying MBs on BSD?
or delaying modes on MB for the big stack?
or... doing nothing but trying to advance Song Jackpot on ACDC and timing the big multiplier collect?

I thought this was pretty obvious from the start when they revealed the SJ stacking and playfield multiplier...

#7412 9 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That’s nice that it was “obvious from the start” but I don’t watch streams and reveals

No need, you could just follow my posts Levi From 29 days ago...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/munsters-is-coming/page/114#post-4796261
Screen Shot 2019-02-18 at 4.31.07 PM (resized).png

back when everyone was moaning about the modes, it was clear the stack and multiplier would be where big action would be

and ironically.. I posted

Quoted from flynnibus:

As a player, the biggest thing that stood out to me was the kitty awards, and then hearing the timer can be RESET.. when it was already a minute to start with? Helllooo... that's where I'm looking unless the wizard mode somehow has exponential scoring compared to the rest of the normal game scoring.

And now we have a scoring bug in the wizard mode that makes exponential scoring a thing

#7568 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Not sure what AC/DC has to do with it

uh.. because it's a game that Stern just released as a PREMIUM tier (not even LE) recently with full powdercoat... for thousands of dollar less. On the 'more expensive to build' SAM platform no less.

Yeah... no idea why someone would bring that up as a relevant comparison for a STERN sold game...

#7656 9 months ago
Quoted from JMCFAN:

I would not... someone seemed to have a problem with it... buy the lesser model then......

...which is exactly what the poster was saying to do... when you “added” they they could disable the playfield as if it were an alternative...

#7716 9 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's actually pretty easy to understand...progress through all the modes and collect all the things!

except you gloss over that the majority of time it's telling you to shoot things you have zero clue what it's referring to. Most of the character shots are completely unrecognizable to players and the shots on the left they probably have difficulty even knowing what's there, let alone which is which.

#7722 9 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Many of the callouts are "Shoot the left loop" "Shoot the right ramp". They're literally telling you what to shoot. As for the character based stuff...it's very obvious if you just look at the playfield...even if you don't know the power plant is where Homer works, when you need to shoot that shot, it's flashing! In the Willy's Woes mode, you have to shoot the bullies - the 3 standups/inserts to the left of the ramp....even if you don't know those characters, the inserts are blinking. TSPP is very very informative with its visuals, audio & lighting cues.

Again you cherry pick. There is tons of stuff flashing or lit on the PF besides the actual mode objective.

Even now when you tell me 'shoot the power plant' - I don't know what that is. Is that just the pops? or the two stands up in front of them? or the hidden target behind them? And the PF is incredibly busy - so no, no one is walking up and playing 'wheres waldo' to find the bullies mid game. The game is sensory overload - and the stacking only amplifies that problem of "I have no idea what I'm doing!"

It's the poster child for "incredibly well through out - just incredibly overwhelming". Sure people can just flail around and get things going... but do people really know or are they just surviving? How many people that just played it a few times could explain how things are qualified.. or the 2x business.. or the daredevil modes, etc.

Bowen himself said it elegantly back when collecting the rules for the game for the rulesheet:
"The Simpsons Pinball Party is one of the most fun, yet most complicated,
games ever made. Playing it to have a good time doesn't require too much
effort, since there should always be something to do. Playing it
strategically takes more effort than almost every other modern pin, but it
sure is worth it."

1 week later
#7874 9 months ago

Finally played the game on location...

It's what I thought it would be.. an approachable middle of the road game. Kitty shot was a bit harder to hit reliably than I thought it might be. Maybe it gets easier with time. The ramps are suuuper easy. I actually found it hard to see the left orbit insert due to the spinner.

Played monster madness on game one... for about 40mil. Game 2 was same but about 85 million. Took a break and went and played the other games.. and then came back to it. Lower scores, but payed more attention to trying to collect the stack.

Seems like it will be a really long playing game for skilled players... I'd expect those outlanes to be wide open and no rubber.

Damn right outlane was like a funnel... sucking balls like crazy.

#7888 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Kitty doesn't get that much easier in my experience, nor should it. As currently coded, Munsters is the Kitty show since the award is overpowered for the game. Light and hit it 3x and you have a 6x multiplier. The first light is a gimmie since you only have to hit Lily a few times to light it.

Yup, like I said over a month ago after the stream... a PF multiplier with a LONG timer, and extendable... and relatively easy to qualify. It was written on the wall on day one.

What I found was I could get shots at Kitty that could pass the target sometimes.. and more shots that rattled than I expected. When I saw it looked like basically 'just miss the scoop and you'll hit it' I thought it could be a easier shot. But in practice I found myself spraying and praying at it more than I thought I would have to.

#7897 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

I'm not saying that, but I AM saying that if you're paying substantially less, your quality level probably goes down. That's capitalism across the consumer space. However, making playfields in Stern's $9000 LE retail machines just as crappy as the crater-prone Pros at $5500 to save $12 overall is not cool.

The $12 did not cover the difference in the total wood cost - you're distorting Mike's citations completely. No the orders of magnitude are not that different... but if you want to go on trying to cite facts - get them right. Mike's entire post was about how he is trying to build the BEST product he can... not that Stern is somehow cutting costs.

Besides, Mike said he was paying basically $12.50 sq/ft vs potentially as cheap as $2/sqft. A PF is roughly 6.5 sq/ft. So CPR is investing an extra $65+ per blank to make their product the best they think they can.

Mike's post was about the actual wood differences - you've completely distorted the cost portion of his information.

#7900 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

You're twisting it as well. If we're only doing the top veneer, Stern only has to do half what CPR is doing (and I'm sure Stern gets a much better deal from the mill with their volume) to get the same hardness, so the cost per blank could be CPR quality at Stern for less than $30/blank. For an LE that costs $9,000 retail or an SLE that cost $15,000 DIRECT to Stern (they got all of it with no middleman), it's not too much to ask.

oh if everything in the world were just linear...

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