Minimal Munster musings must make members mostly mad. Must make musings more Munsters maybe?
Minimal Munster musings must make members mostly mad. Must make musings more Munsters maybe?
No, I think just a trap door like Fun House... the lower table idea is too exspensive if it gets much more complex than ACDC...
But how many think this is just another attempt to capitalize on the Addams Family collector market/earnings train, catering to the same demographic, but the untapped (Lily) Munster vein of it? Not saying this is a bad thing, I always liked Lily better than Morticia, but I had to go with Gomez and his trains over Herman and his, um, laugh. If faced with watching one over the other on network TV, I would go with TAF over TM so this machine will be interesting to see if they hit all the same notes TAF did with their movie version of a TV show from 50 years ago.
Quoted from epthegeek:
Is 5 shoot areas enough shoot areas? Or are we going to be lacking in shoot areas.
No just lacking in great translation? Does Five Shoot Areas sound funny? How about 5 Shots to shoot for? If it wasn’t for the pictures, the Shoot Area nomiclature made me think “fake news” at first glance... anybody else?
Anyone else see Harley Bash or Munster Davidson? How about Munsters: Back in Black, the Luci Edition? Kind of glad we went with MBrLE... At least I know what I am getting...
Does anyone here, right now, want to wager we will be talking about The Munsters machine 20 years from now? And is it going to be as great an earner as TAF or as great an iconic title as Monster Bash was? Reserve any judgement you want, for us sticks in the mud and our affenity to those 90’s Bally/WMS, I am afraid the “depth” people keep demanding in rules is for the video junkies-turned-pinball fanatics, not us old pinheads. I like walking away from a machine knowing I killed it, I took it to it’s end and I finished it. I have done this with both TAF and MB. I am not sure I need the depth of the eight rings of hell to make a game enjoyable, and although JJP POTC is a fun shooter, I never walk away thinking I beat it.
I am not sure I am going to enjoy The Munsters because:
a) Not as edgy as The Addams Family, the cartoon, the TV show, or the movie.
b) Source material is too shallow... Herman was an idiot, Lily played the annoyed housewife too often, and Grandpa was who we really watched the show for, not Marilyn, or Eddie.
c) No Thing. And lets face it, thats what everyone liked about TAF machine.
Quoted from JodyG:
You have not even seen a fully populated playfield yet. All you have seen is bare artwork and the bottom half of a pro model...you are a bit premature here, hoss.
Do I need to see it fully populated and playing? No, I can tell you from what I have seen from Stern lately, this title is a pass for me. This will be chocked full of nostalgia and be family friendly and not my cup of tea. Give me classic pinball camp and humor in MB, the edgyness of The Addams Family franchise, and cool toys like Thing. A Herman head bash toy and staircase ramp diverter are not going to cut the mustard... they might surprise me with some neat toys, but I have never held my breath waiting for neat toys from Stern.
Like some people say, you don’t need to drive a Ford to know it’s a piece of crap... a turd can be a turd before it leaves your asshole... just saying.
Quoted from gweempose:
It took me a long time in this hobby to realize that this is not necessarily the case.
Which is why we still play all those shallow rulesets from the past... hello Mcfly... think Mcfly... we had fun playing those titles 20 years ago, so why all of a sudden do they suck so much that these fru fru johnny come lately types can’t “get it out of my gameroom” fast enough?!?
Quoted from Yelobird:
of little judgement value.
Maybe to you, what I see is just another Stern nostalgic cash grab that I want no part in. And goofy wager or not, you didn't take me up on it, and my wager was will we be talking about this pin the same way as we talk about TAF 25+ years on. I figure we wont be talking about it much at all come 3 years from now.
Lol @wyopin, you make a good point
@jodyg, no, I do not have to justify a MBrLE purchase, just like about 1250 others do not. I didn’t like DP, and IMDN has been the funnest Stern shooter of late, and it has no toys to speak of... so go figure. So do I take a risk on an unproven Stern title, or buy a Monster Bash, unknown, known, risky, safe? Does it matter? I have always loved playing and have always wanted to own a Monster Bash. That I had to pass on a Stern Munsters cash grab to justify it? Ok I will own that, and I will own my Monster Bash and have 20+ more years of fun with it (if I live that long). Ymmv.
Ok, listen, this is a speculation thread... I am speculating The Munsters is going to be a just another average Stern title... I see everyone is still talking about SW... and GOTG.... and KISS15... really wonderful Stern titles for sure. People are all salivating for this Munster machine like it is going to be the next TAF... well I have no real good Trump in my gut feeling that Stern is going to produce the next TAF-level of iconic pinball machines and that The Munsters will come and go like KISS, SW, GOTG, DP? (or CSI or 24... wait, those are low blows).
I figure someone has to break up this Munsters love fest... besides I have nothing else better to do than make your lives miserable until my MBrLE shows up.
Quoted from jgentry:
Not for me. Every crazy deep journey type game gets old to me the fastest. I'll still have Flash Gordon and every last one of the 12 billion lines of code games will be long gone.
Being a good player and home buyer has nothing to do with needing crazy deep code. You just prefer games like that.
Who cares about a marketing phrase of x many cornerstones a year, separate from contract or boutique? Anyone? That is just hype generation tactics in my book. The number one metric I care about is x number of machines produced per year, and hopefully that number has a positive slope and is going up. The Munsters will fill the line like any other title, they will sell the first run out, then it will go into the rotation, why does it have to fall specifically within this calendar year? As long as Stern is producing and selling machines, it means there is a demand. Which means pinball will be around at least another year. Do we care as players and enthusiasts that they hit their development target? I only care that more machines are being made. So if Munsters turns out to be epic, is that still a fail since it was delivered in January and not December? Investors might care, Gary may care, but me? Not so much. Just build more Pinball!!
I have a question for operators about unfinished code and machines. Would they want a new Munsters to put on route NOW, or a Munsters delivered 6 months from now with finished code? Is newness if the title more important than completeness of rules and code?
Well, me and Who-Dey have talked each other into the other camps... I want to see a Munsters LE now, and he has finally seen a MBr and we agree, that puppy is pure old school pinball crack, and I got my dealer on speed dial. If Stern can do Munsters justice, I am ready and willing to step up and eat crow. Does it taste good with ketchup?
You guys could use some whine with that cheese...
But all this cheese talk in a pinball forum is making me bleu...
Who-dey has talked me into waiting on Munsters to the point now that I am actually beginning to share in his enthusiasm. So maybe Coke can be changed into Pepsi, dogs and cats can live together, and two people who started off at odds can actually find the things we both can agree on. Really wanting to see the LE now.
The pro reveal will speak volumes... but we know there can be huge differences in gameplay between pro and le depending on simple code updates and them figuring out how to use the hardware in different and cool ways as the code matures. I think that is what I am hoping for with the Pro reveal, just what do they do with pro hardware and how it all looks and plays on code rumored to be starting at 1.x. And then we see what hardware they add/change and how the game play changes as you go premium/LE. Should be an interesting 2019.
I am thankful Gary Stern was such a greedy capitalist that he saw keeping Stern open and producing pinballs as a way of making a little money with no competition after the initial collapse of the pinball scene in early 2000’s. I seriously expected the whole thing to come crashing down and we would be left with nothing but virtual pinball on video if we had anything at all.
Well now, some say, pinball is on the rise again... and new competition brings new dynamics into the mix. I am hoping Munsters takes Stern in a more competitive direction with regards to what “Limited Edition” means and they surprise us with something more Boutique in “exclusivity” on the higher end trim level machines, and that the Pro is a fun shooter for the casual player to help keep ops in the money.
The difference in price between Pro and Premium should be that much $$$ worth of value, and the LE should add another actual $$$ value, not just a $1000 worth of “exclusivity”, what ever that crap word implies. Do not just bolt a bunch of $5.00 action figures to it and charge me $500 bucks for the opportunity. I would rather have $500 worth of code devlopement instead because that improves the fun, the $50 in action figures I can’t play with, not so much.
Lets go Stern, show us you are the industry leader and not just an industry giant.
Quoted from Budman:
“It’s Ok, Dr. Smith, Robot can fix you right up... say Robot, you got anything for Dr. Smith?”
<whirr, click, tabulate> “I had a wonderful Purple Kush I was growing in the hydroponics lab, but Don and Judy bongzilla’d it all on their last date night” <click whirrrrr sumation square root>
“Wow, sorry, Dr. Smith, I forgot how much of a pin head Don was...”
<whirr click shaker motor meltdown> “Warning Will Robinson! Nut loose in operators chair!”
Hey, new pinball is new pinball. This is one of the only "sports" I know of where there is such a major difference between the "stadiums" where the game is played. This pin will look good in any campy horror lineup... right next to the SS, MB, TAF, EATPM, CFTBL, AFM, and a host of others... and yes AFM is campy horror/ science fiction and belongs in the list.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
Monster Bash is not as dark as your picture shows, not even close lol. I played a MBRSE a few weeks ago in a pretty dark room and it was just fine. I was surprised when i started seeing people complain about the lighting on it actually. My eyes arent nearly as good as they used to be and i didnt have any problems seeing the game at all.
+1... CE is darkest of the three, and even it is as well lit as an original, so not sure why people complain. You want to buy extra lighting for a couple $$$ feel free. Poorly lit pinball machines have been a staple of the hobby for years... GI lighting? We don't need no stinkin GI lighting... you get 2 dim bulbs in the top left corner and one in the right slingshot... per the standard shitty operator contract... (feel lucky BOTH flippers work AND have a little rubber left on the tips) enjoy!
Kind of wish we were talking about Munsters, but since this has gotten this far off topic, including myself, not sure what else we can conjecture or speculate about... Just hoping they had great access to source material, and it is a great shooter. Theme is a no brainer on Munsters, what with the success of other campy horror pins.
But to go with the flow of discussion on theme or game or what makes one better than the other, why not look at it from a real life angle? People keep trying to seperate theme from game so why not look at a reskin and talk about it? Like Shrek on top of FG? Or pick any title that is a retheme (Bewitched?) and make your arguments for and against. Just a thought.
I think what will determine if Munsters is a hit or not will be how well the theme is interwoven into game play. When you look at TAF, and the fact it was based on the movie, which was based on the TV show which was based on the print cartoon, there are elements that worked because they fit the theme of the cartoon, the TV show, and they matched up with scenes from the movie. So it appealed to the old schoolers from hitting the mark of weirdness associated with the original print cartoon, the nostalgia of the TV show, and the current excitement of the theatrical movie... pretty much a grand slam.
What I am waiting to see on Munsters, is how well they integrated the singular source material, the TV show, into a pinball machine. What flavor will the humor have? Will it be the slapstick comedy, tongue in cheek, societal sendup the original show had, or will it be a disjointed, clown car full of sight gags, one liners, and classic bits from classic episodes all mashed together? What will the driving force of the game be? Keep Herman and Grandpa from doing something stupid? Or dealing with Lily being a housewife of the 60’s? and having to deal with the “horrors” of modern society (by dealing with Marilyn and her “normalcy”) or dealing with a prepubescent vampire?
I am hoping it is NOT some kind of “it worked for Addams Family” ripoff and that it stands on its own two size 26 feet.
Quoted from chuckwurt:
Wasn’t me was it? Haha. I hope you like your games ya old farts!!
If it wasn’t for us old farts playing ANYTHING Stern was selling back in the dark times, before the current resurgence, you guys would have nothing new to play at all. I want some credit for dropping coin in a “CSI” and a “24” and a BBH, and a slew of other questionable titles over the bleak times post the B/W collapse. Haha
I want the activity timeline turned into a real roller coaster ride... just look at the ups and downs, that would be a killer coaster ride...
Well he wouldn’t leak it under his own name... send your pics to somebody else and let them get all the glory and legal action...
If I broke out my guitar and strummed a few bars of kumbaya how fast would I get moderated?
I said “strum” not “hum”, but you might be surprised at my singing voice @who-dey lol
Just don’t play any Jim Morrison and the Doors and you got nothing to worry about. Get me drunk on tequila and hand me a microphone and a karaoke Doors track and all bets are off.
The neighbors across the street or was that Addams family? Honest mistake if so...
I think Premium customers are the ones Stern hates the most because they always want more for less, i.e. they want all the gameplay of an LE (god forbid they miss some game rule or toy present on the LE) but not all the cost of the LE tack ons that do nothing for game play, i.e. non interactive toys and figurines, exclusive artwork, armor, etc...
I think if Premiums are all B&W, this is a tongue in cheek stab in the eye at them from Stern... ok you want all the gameplay and toys? Fine, but you get no color artwork. No soup for you.
Who-Dey, Pro buyers get a good game to put on site and make some money, and pinheads like us to put in their homes and play without the sticker shock of Premiums/LE’s. It has most of the gameplay and only us pinheads know what the casual player is missing. I am not knocking Pro’s at all here. There are Pros that I like better than Premiums, GOT and IM being two of them.
My big worry was how much booze was flowing in the hands of the Stern Employees in those pics... That is either a triumphant celebration or the kind of hedonistic behavior you see by the army that lost the war... hoping for the triumphant celebration...
I am a 5 hours drive from Vegas... you do not know how badly I am fighting the urge to drive there tonight...
Although there are those doing it, how many LE’s really are bought as an investment? And of those doing so, how many are being left NIB? And how many people will actually never buy a pin from Stern again if Stern sold you an LE, then put out another LE that was better than your LE, and now all your NIB LE v1 are worth less because there is a better LE v2 now? Is this number of customers so many that they would never think of doing this? Doubtful. I think Stern would sell anything they want to, when they want to, as long as the market is there. LE buyers are pretty fickle... they like things being perfect. Including the exclusive “protection” they seem to think they are buying by purchasing an LE. I would never count on a moniker of “LE” being anything other than a way of describing the top trim level. Car makers have run into this problem in the past too, their response was “shrug”.
Ok, how the phunk does anyone know about ramps and wireforms on the lower pf?!? Pics or its all bull$pit.
Hey @thegunnett shout out to Altoona, Pa. That pretty much summed all the threads up I have been reading lately. Lol (born in Altoona btw)
Hey, this is the result of being dropped on my head when I was little, too much hype train hooplah, too much alcohol, and too much waiting on a MBrLE pin to ship... I will go dormant after it arrives, I promise. Unless I’m waiting on a Munsters LE by then...
The cart is full of gaffer tape, drop cloths, and booth setup junk...nothing to see here... unless that is what they used to wrap up the dead bodies of Pinsiders trying to get a picture of the playfield...
But think of the aftermarket potential to convert B&W Premiums into colored Premiums! Yes, that’s right kids, get your very own Munsters colorizing kit straight from Turner Productions! The kit includes your very own rainbow set of Sharpies and an extra large spray can of clear coat to lock in that beautiful fully unsaturated “Sharpie on a bathroom wall” patina. Dont wait! Act now and we will throw in a complete colorized box set of The Munsters, all 70 episodes remastered in funky green faced glory, all in super High Definition DVD format. VHS available by special order only. You get all this for $7999.95 plus shipping and handling. Please allow 4 to six months for delivery.
Any guesses on how many posts we see on here between now and the reveal? I think if we try REAL hard, we can get another 1k in before any useful pics or vids get posted. Right now we are at a post a minute I think...
In the food for thought category, has anyone considered this is just a massive CES PR stunt for general sales to the public, i.e. non-pinheads, and creating a buzz at CES? They are there to make waves in order to get some free PR buzz going, what not a better way than putting out a B&W version of your next big title? I think they are counting on the avant garde angle here and how a pinball company could be so bold to put out a B&W version of something that has for the most part, like 99.999999% of the time, been a Disney-esque pukefest of color, lights and sounds. This will make people stop, turn there heads sideways a little, and walk into the booth... a colorless pinball machine, thats just crazy... wait, it is kinda cool... hey I want one.
Well it is good to see the we have enough conductors on the hype train express... sheesh. Wouldnt want a post with little to no merit to slip by all the keyboard warriors who are ready to pounce on your throat at a momments notice... as a matter of curiosity, I am crafting this post to actually maximize blood boiling. And it should start bubbling right about now...
They sent me my Gold Ignore Button plaque just yesterday... working on my Diamond one as we speak...
Summer breeze makes me feel fine... @herbertbsharp... does Balston Spa still have the Sugar Shack restaurant?
Herb, my boy, when the wife comes home at a time like this, it’s better to meet her at the door with nothing on but a full cocktail glass and swizzle stick and say you got 15 minutes to the reveal, baby, use them however you please...
I like flipping new pins, and this is a new pin. I like flipping mini pf’s, I own a FGy. The fun of playing on both playfields at the same time is what made FGy a blast for me and is why I own it. I always wished for more full scale features on Stewie mini pf and so we get Multiball, VUK, a bash, a ramp, a timer..., not too deep rules that get you to the fun quickly without having to Rule the Universe, or Rock a bunch of Monsters before the action really takes off. We will see where the cracks in the rules are and they will (maybe eventually) patch them. I will flip one in Texas and see how I feel about it then, but from watching the stream, I want the lower pf because I like them. So that puts me +1 for Premium, or ++1 on a secondary market LE after someone gets “bored” with the lower pf. Ymmv (Who-Dey, give it a flip when you can, the mini pf might grow on you )
westofrome, I was wondering if someone would take the time and make a full sized lower playfield and a reducer lens... aka Krull...
Or maybe we could put a mini LCD display where the big window is and put camera on a full scale lower pf mounted underneath... a real but virtually displayed lower playfield?!?
I would use a cargument if I knew it wouldn’t get me moderated, but the “limited” in any offer from a company holds no value to anyone. Be it the collector, the seller, or the buyer. What makes something collectible, and worth more to ANYONE is how “available” it is. How high does the price of an LE need to go before someone sells it? Depends on how easy it is to get another one. Right now, the only argument the LE purchasers have is they were told they would be one of 500 units produced. A lawyer will tell Stern, then don’t call the next 100 LE’s “Limited Editions” and more than likely, if they up the number, they simply just won’t badge them as LE, just sell them with a different badge. This is not another LE, its a Limiited Color Premium Edition, 1 of 100. So the LCPE is not an LE and doesnt affect LE availability or exclusivity. Problem solved. Or is it? Lawyers will be happy, at least.
I get people are unreasonably upset about commiting to buy a material object valued at an overly large amount based on the collectability of said object when it was reportedly limited to 500 of these objects but suddenly the unintegral manufacturer decided to increase that value by 100 more so there are now only 600 people with the exclusive right to own one of these seemingly unlimited, yet limited editions of said object instead of the published and promised 500 which is a change of 20% on your odds of owning one over the 7 billion other non-pinball playing people on the planet who could not care less.
But I am not sure it matters to me, I have to get past the “we are already getting a MBrLE, so no Munster LE soup for you” response the wife is feeding me right now... good thing she’s coming to TPF so she can flip one. Too bad all 600 will be sold out by then. So she has to settle for the Premium eh? The plot thickens...
From watching the streams of the premium, if this were just a whitewood, I would want to flip it. That it is themed to a TV sitcom I used to watch as a child is a plus, but the double table action always draws me in. I might point out that I suck at any double level multiball play with double table action like Munsters with the exception of FGy. I have had some practice, though
They talked about having to talk management into dual flipper buttons because if it doesn’t sell, well, left over double holed cabinets, but why not throw a couple of player controlled magnets in the Pro, say ala magnasave?!? Call it “Back from the Dead” And now both Pro’s and on up share the same cabinets, Pro owners get something Premiums and LE’s do not. Win win. (Wait, sorry, forgot about Pro coil count limits, my bad)
Quoted from jonesjb:
What’s this mean? Not quite following.
Some people think Stern has a (unwritten) rule that Pro’s are only allowed so many coils on the BOM... I always figure you stop counting coils when the game is fun enough, not when you reach a magic number. Besides, whats a couple of magnets to Stern anyways? They seem to have plenty to go around.
Monotarget on Lily is a travesty, should have been 4 drops. And monotarget on Dragula just means they wanted you to score Dragula more often than 7 individual standups let you, so why not put up a four bank of standups spelling DRAG and give me something extra when I complete them in order? Has pinball reduced itself to “just hit anything” and “keep that ball alive” mentality that accuracy and sequence and order are dirty words? If they ditched the mono targets, made the lower pf full sized, and had a ruleset deeper than a puddle of vomit, maybe people would complain less and just play it?
I think a pinball machine has more going on overall than just differences in BOM, because a machine can be simple mechanically and yet fun to play, TNA being the most recent example of the phenomenon. If you are putting your "value" goggles on, you might miss out on a fun title based solely on coil and mech counts. That seems short sighted from a players point of view.
If enough people say, meh, rinse, repeat... I am sure Dwight will get to add a Munsters Mayhem supper hard hidden wizard mode that requires a thirteen flipper button sequence to activate and will come up instead of Munsters Madness II or III if you get that far...
Anyone know if the leaf stacks are wired in parallel or series or are they individual switch inputs?
The problem with pinball today is the prices are so high, it turns “Buyer Remorse” into a full on, bed-ridden terminal illness, only surpassed by the FOMO virus with it’s veracity and ability to destroy the budgets of so many innocent victims. I think Stern has learned to weaponize the Fear Of Missing Out, and this hype train was so sucessful they had to add an extra 100 LE’s to their schedule in order to capitalize on it. Pretty much Par for the pinball course if you ask me. I figure Stern will continue being Stern like Stern has always been, an average company building an average product for average players. Sometimes they get a hit, sometimes a miss, but you pretty much know what you can expect on average.
My big question to everyone who gets a new Munsters, or any NIB or used pin, do you not take the glass off and run it through everything with your fingers, or is that the unspoken, you better never admit you have done it, most sacrilegious, blasphemous thing you could ever admit to doing in pinball? Just asking for a friend...
Quoted from TheLaw:
throw in a sys11 type ruleset game?
I think that you may have hit on part of what is goind on, but I think there is a combination of marketing strategy going on here... I think they wanted to target the nostalgia market, but they also want to target a broader casual player market than the HUO and serious competition players. This means game play must resonate with the casual player, so its targeted to the guy who has played pins before maybe in bars, has watched the show when young, and might have the discretionary cash to buy one for his game room. The pro model will appeal to ops and casual players, the LE to cash in on the deep pocketed nostalgia and collector types, and the premium for the more serious players and fans of the show but who may not have THAT much spare change hanging around. All of this makes good marketing sense for this title imo, so I think Stern approached this pin fairly well. That it is not deep enough for the serious pinhead means maybe this title is just not for them? We should see how it fairs in a tournament and see if it gets blown out or if someone discovers an exploit before passing all judgment. I still haven’t flipped one yet and can’t wait to try it at TPF.
Compared to the rest of society, I am that deep pocketed collector type... I dropped $8300 on a NIB pin recently and didn’t bat an eye at the expense. That is not something that makes me proud to say by the way. How many people who play pinball actually own a machine? There are plenty on here who look at anyone spending big $$$ on a pinball machine as a snobby rich mother f--ker, and I don’t know that many people personally who have a hobby other than guns, cars, or fine art who spend more on their hobbies in general than pinheads. And pinheads with deep pockets buy LE’s... I did. Now did I say all LE buyers are deep pocketed?, no but damn, who is eating ramen and selling their plasma to by a Munsters LE?!? I’ll send ya a case of ramen if you ask.
Quoted from jfh:
Another reason why it may not be deep - Stern may have significantly underestimated how long it takes to develop software for games in the LCD era and effectively use the available video assets (or develop custom ones).
This is exactly what make or breaks a pin title in my book. I know a lot of people discount the LCD and even the old DMD animations as something the player doesnt look at a lot, and that is true, but spectators (potential customers to operators) need a good show to draw them to the game and make them want to give it a try. And it gives players 2, 3, and 4 something to watch while they wait their turn. The more stuff there is to see, the more spectators have left to discover when it is there turn, or did you people always just play by yourselves? That LCD should be dripping with cool stuff to look at for this reason alone, and getting the video assets to sync up with the narative is one of the hardest parts of making a theme work in modern pins. This is a show! It should have lights, music, dancing girls, a dog, a clown, and a stand up comedian... but it only has to last about 3 to 5 minutes on average.
OMG! Think of the children... having a crap ton of fun! The horor!.. This reminded me so much of me and my brother in 1967, except we would have been on a Gottlieb wedgehead, most likely Hurdy Gurdy or a Subway... at my dad’s bowling league nite at Past Time lanes.
I think the Munsters as a show could be summed up by contrasting it to it’s rival, The Addams Family, and I will not do that here but to say, this is like a James Lipton question on Inside the Actors Studio interviews... “which are you, Munsters or Addams Family?” Because that is pretty much how people fall, you are either in one creepy campy camp or the other, and with Munsters, the comedy was situational based usually on Herman and Grandpa’s shinanigans, with Lily and Marilyn providing “adult” and “normal” supervision, respectively. Much of the humor is based on how clueless the Munsters are to how scary they come off to normal people, and they have the perfect foil in Marilyn, their niece, who is normal, but just as clueless on the scary aspects, so she constantly fuels the confusion by bringing home normal guys to meet the family, who are always scared off when they see Herman, Granpa, Eddie, and/or Lily. Add different “situations” to this mix every week and you get The Munsters. Now you just need to watch the show, play the pin, and enjoy.
The only way to know FOR SURE a machine is for you is by playing the machine, but @who-dey I think is right, not all can get to a show or distributor showroom (if they still have one) or even on site to play before you buy, and so the early adopters may need to either take risks or do what ever they can to see game play or reviews...
But the dream of every LE buyer is they are buying the next ultra fun, ultra desirable, everyone missed the boat, holy crap they didnt make enough but I got one, dream theme coded by God himself, designed by a saint who swore off ever designing a pin again after nearly dying by going on a hunger strike until management let him double the BOM while finishing this machine of the decade, nea dare say it, the century... a true pinball piece of history.
Or just a realy cool topper... ymmv
On the Target-gate conspiracy of missing Lily drops and possibly the Dragula standups... with this mentality, will Stern machines end up being a box with two flipper buttons, one big target, one big light, one big buzzer, and one big bell? Then we put money in it to stand in front of it and mash the buttons while the ball randomly crashes around into the target, randomly buzzes the buzzer, flashes the big light, and rings the bell? And every time we get it to ring, buzz, and flash long enough, it cracks off a knocker to let me know I get to do this all over again for FREE!
This is how I, as a player, feel Stern is letting us down with their recent evidence of “cost savings” or “profit maximizing” or “customer gouging”, depending on your opinion of Stern.
I understand the mentality behind the single wide Lily Target when it come to the rules... hit this target 4 times and something happens, which in Munsters is you boost Lily which boosts overall scoring. There is no award for getting LILY in order, so the single target paradigm works, but here’s the rub- usually, in past pinball rules, four bank target banks, either standup or drop, are a way of sequencially making the player be accurate with their shots, give them visual feedback of their progress, and removes that progress if the bank is not completed in the current ball or within a set time.
Here’s some more “cost savings” advice... you can eliminate 3 inserts, 3 lamps, and just put up one LILY insert... flash the insert slowly at first, then faster with each strike until the 4th strike, where you leave LILY lit to show it is qualified. See? Now you save 3 lamps, 3 sockets, 10 feet of wire and three lamp outputs on your already shaky node boards. No change to game play, but way cheaper.
If Stern continues to remove the aspects of playing pinball that some of us have grown to love and expect, then I don’t see me buying many more NIB Stern machines. The “dumbing down” of pinball in the name of “cost savings” is killing off the things I have always loved about playing... shooting shots accurately, in order, and that “thump” when the bank resets, be it the thump of making the bank in a single sweeping shot, or the thump of the bank resetting before making the last shot...
@luvthatapex2, I am well aware of BOM. I feel the development cost overhead is what is putting the big squeeze on the BOM. The mile wide, inch deep offerings from Stern show they are able to put out a large amount of machines, but the depth of those titles are trending to be a bit shallow, the mechs limited, and the game play mediocre. Does that mean Stern sucks? No, I think it means Stern is trying to stay in business. Does it make me worry about Stern and their future offerings? Yes.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
Hey Bubblehead, this 5K game doesnt have any drop targets and it definitely sucks but how many drop targets does that $8300.00 MBR LE that you just bought have?
Touche! You got me there... but Frank is a double moving drop standup bank bash toy... so thats like drop targets and stand ups had a baby and the baby got kidnapped by a bash target... thats like basic pinball tech cubed. Got to love that.
Boy, I never seen so much “meh” dripping off the walls for a pinball machine title since, what, Deadpool? You have your “cheerleaders” who love the theme, but the rules are “meh”, then you have your “artistes” who love Franchi art, but the Dwight code is “meh”, and then there are the players, who say the shots are smooth, it shoots nice, but the theme is “meh”, and then there are the LE buyers who bought it, flippers un-flipped, possibly sight unseen who have convinced themselves that although initial game play seems “meh”, that code updates are going to make this Sterns Monster Bash.
So it comes down to is it fun? And people keep saying it is fun. Is it put it in your home and bolt it to the floor fun, or just keep her around for a quicky now and then fun? Or is it a “put it on route, it will make some coin for a year and then we sell it” fun, or is it going to be the next “Where’s Waldo?” on code updates fun?
I don’t know what kind of fun it will be, I have not played one yet, so I can not judge the fun factor. But what a lot of this all has in common is those who have played it think there are a lot of pluses, we have good theme, good artwork, good layout design, good graphics- but rules and code that are too “close to the start button”.
Here is a little equation that is going to get me in trouble...
Munsters + Lyman - Dwight - FGy - BM66 = Munster Bash 2
Quoted from Who-Dey:
I dont know if it will be the total package for everyone because no game is, but its a damn fine package i can tell you that much! Heck if i wasn’t getting company tonight i would drive back down to Cincinnati tonight and play it some more because i love it!
Who-Dey, dude, your review “meh?”, no way. I just think there is more to Munsters to be seen once me, myself, and I flip it. And I think the Pro it is exactly what you say it is, fun for a Munsters fan, fun for a casual player, probably going to be a decent earner. Fun for the HUO crowd? If your a Munsters fan with a fair collection, yes, but the deep roo— I mean the deep rules folks, they are going to be a bit disappointed, but as a mini pf owner and lover, I can’t wait to shoot a Premium. I mean, I must not like too deep a ruleset... I did buy a MBrLE (when it gets here)
I thought Thunderturds are Blow! Had the worst recent art package? Or was that worst total package? Right now I am having difficulty remembering ANYTHING about that machine, its like my mind is forcing me to forget I had ever seen it...
I’m going to find @neilmcrae in that Texas bar at TPF and hoist one if I can, then ask about Munsters... things always go better when your a pint less sober.
This is hilarious. The old coil count myth again? Copper is a rare (but a mostly plentiful) earth metal. It does cost. Coils have a lot of copper (duh?) They are one of the most expensive things in a machine next to rest of the other components beside labor. They set the basic ground floor of the BOM along with cabinet, back box, playfield, translite, plastics, decals, flippers, lockdown bar, legs, a general list of hardware and rubber rings, CPU, node boards, wire, switches, inserts and lights/LEDs. The remaining monies now have to be spent on the things that make a box of parts a titled game, so license, artwork, layout, mechnical design, graphics, programming, sound, music, light show, animations, call outs, prototyping, whitewooding, sample games, market research, and promotion. The balancing act is to make all this come together to make something that is... wait for it... a good return on investment.
In this industry, that means a machine that attracts a large swath of the publics interest, continues to hold that interest, and provides a decent amount of entertainment for the cost of a dollar. It also has to do this with minimum intervention by the operator, for as long as possible at the least amount of cost of ownership.
Or as @who-dey said, it’s just has to be fun.
Munsters in fun.
Ok now at least one of the last 8 posts says something about Munsters.
Ok could not resist...
“Save the Dragula”
“Destroy the Washer”
Munsters is a fun, but it is not the machine for someone who likes JJP depth. It may be I have had a private lesson on the rules by Eric, or it may be the machine is just deep, or it may be that it is just fun to play, but what I have found out about POTC, once you understand Eric’s mindset on the rules... The only flaw is its price.
If you don't compare one diamond to another, then how are you to know which one is flawless?
The problem with the Herman sculpt was they were shooting for that “darn, darn, darn, darn, <scowl>” look when Herman is frustrated, shaking his fists, then does the crossed lipped scowl... I got the reference immediately, but I watched WAY to much Munsters growing up. Everyone remembers Herman differently, but the current sculpt is not as far off from the vibe they were looking for, it just didn’t nail it like the funny Herman did in the diecast car, imo.
Quoted from TheLaw:
I have no idea why anyone listens to anyone aboot which game to buy.
I think because some people are so new at this buying game, every machine seems fun to them right now, like it did when I was 7 years old. Let these “youngsters” get a few thousand plays or more under their belts on great and crappy machines and they will be telling us what games to buy. I never say “buy” this pin as much as I say “try” this pin. I will definitely tell you when I think a game sucks, but only after flipping one, and not usually before flipping it unless looking at pictures of a theme/title feels like pouring molten lead into my eye sockets, then you get a hard pass from me, not a blanket recomendation of “Do Not Buy”. I am always cautious when I berate a pin title too, I hate telling anyone their beautiful new plaything is an ugly baby... but not everyone wears a list of what machines are in their collection on their foreheads. And one has to remember, some of these machines were the talk of the town when new, but have since got a pretty tarnished and checkered reputation over the years. Take BOP... a very shallow, easy to understand, all around boring title by todays standards, yet back when she was new, she had a good run because she made money, she was an easy (p)lay and it didn’t take but being good at the left ramp shot in order to do well... a very “one shot” trick pony title. Now, I agree with all that, even though I own a pair of mated Pinbot/BOP machines, She can, and at any given time will kick my ass, just as on any given day I can usually put myself into the billionaires club. I have too much nostalgia wrapped up in those two machines to ever sell, but anyone telling me BOP 1.0 is boring will get a curt nod from me in agreement.
Quoted from cooked71:
Haha. If you keep believing it will make it real.
It doesn't have to be made “real” for me because Munsters is fun (in my worthless opinion) and just happens to be Who-Dey’s dream theme. I actually like all of his positivity, it seems like more and more these hype threads do nothing but tear a title down more than hype it up, and his unbridled enthusiasm has been a bright spot amongst the gloom and doom posts of dimples, craters, node boards, shallow code, cracking decals, water damage, production delays, parts scams, and manufacturerer implosions. Sometimes, when you are on the wrong end of a 4 or 5 month wait for a machine to be delivered, you just want to hear somebody, somewhere is actually having some real fun.
If people want a child theme based pinball machine, Frozen II is coming. You may pop your eardrums with a giant silver needle after the billionth refrain of “Let it Go” but most parents are now immune from over exposure. If you want to capture and bring a large audience of young woman to pinball, no other theme right now would do better on that demographic, imo. Toy Story is coming, but if they want to hit a lot of boxes at once, the theme I think must cross both adult and child demographics to work. Munsters crosses a triple demographic, my parents (70+), myself (50+), and my children (30+). It is no wonder Stern built it.
Quoted from TheLaw:
Pretty much the same as my IMDN...as long as you can turn the music down it may be passable.
If they made it, Off. Period. Not just a little down, not slightly muted, but all the effin’ way off on Frozen and “Let if Blow”. I, fortunately, like IMDN cranked because I do like the music, not all of it, but 3 of the included tunes are favorites.
The Munsters theme is so ear worm worthy, you find yourself humming it hours after playing it.
Geese, Louise... didn’t know it was Munsters LE pr0n night... I wanna flip it, dang it! Could you please quit being a pintease, or a torturer of pinball souls... for all things inhumanly possible please? I beg you...
Here is my current take on Munsters... its like a Pinbot for the 2019’s. Nice art, good use of music and lights It’s pretty easy to do just about everything in Munsters, but doing it all in the same game? Not so much, but acheivable. People can flip and bash at Pinbot, not knowing what they are doing, and get it to multiball... did anyone know to lock a ball and shoot the ramp during multiball for Solar Value? Maybe they read the instruction card and did, maybe they didn’t, but if you did know, who was going to beat you playing it? Not many people. You could go for the Planets and try and reach the sun... did you make it every game? No, but it is doable. You could build your energy and collect it... did you do it every game? No, but it is possible. There are multiple strategies that can get you points, you just need to know where they are. So far in Munsters, we have yet to see just what strategies work the best to get the best scores, or what goals and modes to shoot to keep the game fun and challenging, and we don’t know too much about scoring potentials when shooting both playfields since the Prem and Le are just getting out in the wild. This machine is a fun shooter, a decently integrated game with a catchy, retro, campy horror 60’s throw back vibe that plugs directly into a lot of people’s collective Iconoclastic Americana nostalgia. I am not going to be defending or supporting this opinion, nor will I have much more to say until I have flipped a Prem/LE. It is just an opinion, not the Flipping State of the Union for Stern, pinball, or the people working on their games.
The problem with these hype threads are that everyone on here wants to feel they are right about their opinion, dissenting opinions need repressed and refuted, and agreeing opinions supported and defended. So it it like watching a Tug of War game where both sides are equally matched... the rag on the rope moves back and forth, but nobody ever really wins until one side just gets tired of it and quits.
I remember over hearing them talk about the laugh track coding as being something they had to work on to get right, or something like that when they were doing the live stream in Stern’s breakroom. The comment was made offhand, but it sounded like, from programmer to programmer, there is a code based part to the laugh track. I think a pin browser user needs to go in and identify the laugh audio if it exists and insert blank audio instead to totally remove any coded laff callouts. At least that is what I would try if there is no adjustment setting for it (yet) in the code.
Quoted from JodyG:
I am not much of a fan of powder coating in general.
Nor am I usually, but sometimes, it works. MBrLE’s look awesome in the dark blue metallic, but I don’t go out of my way to add it to existing pins. I was always a stainless and chrome kind of guy. When you buy your machine off an operator, I was always just pleased to get 4 legs that matched. Right now, I think I have chrome and factory Stern Black, and the set on my Bride is painted I think. It really comes down to personal preference. I prefer my machines with four legs. And hopefully they match.
Ok, Zack and Greg were pretty specific this was a Pro only review and they don’t equate that strong B to Munsters overall, just the Pro. Let’s wait and see how they rate a Premium/LE.
I would do the following if a WBK pin was ever produced:
Release my design for Zero Point Energy Endless Vortex Cockroach and Insect Trap...
Make a fortune selling them to people all over the world...
Dress up like Doctor Evil and buy a hairless cat...
Use the profits from the Insect Trap to design and build the first Super Solar Star Killer Space Cannon...
Buy a swimming pool full of sharks with fricken Lasers on their heads...
Point the Star Killer Cannon at the Sun and pull the trigger, destroying it and all known human life in the universe...
Problem of a Welcome Back Kotter pinball machine properly handled... priceless.
I think I am going to look for a HUO LE when somebody has determined that it is too shallow for long term home staying power, is not the greatest lower pf ever made in a pinball machine, is not the greatest Borg game ever made, are too worried Dwight will get sidetracked updating GB before he gets back to Munsters, and has finally decided the image of the wrestle reject gold legs grating on their retinas like screaming agony has got to go...
Then I will put it next to my MBrLE, perform some cult ordained illegal Satanic marriage of a CGC/Stern match made in Hell, and let my guests fight it out on which is the nicest machine. And when CGC announces remake #4 as TAF... I will complete the unholy trinity. Only Elvira could screw this up for me.
iceman44, it is my job to be the fool it seems. We need some more humor in here.
In 157 pages I have seen this pin elevated to the gods and sacrificed to the demons in hell, and in both contexts I have to ask, did you track down the operator or the establishment owner, or home owner and ask for your money back or some kind of rebate because, well, you know, it just wasn’t enough fun for a buck, or that you felt you owed them a buck extra for all the fun you got above and beyond the buck you payed? Was it enough fun to fill an evening? weekend? One out of 5 games in a collection fun? I think hells yes.
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