(Topic ID: 217394)

The Munsters Hype (Because every evening its Halloween)


By Macca101010

2 years ago



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#5351 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Overwhelming view from EAG, epic art, lower playfield is a miss, game is way too easy, needs urgent code work, perhaps even a rethink! Great shots and fun to play but really shallow.

“Really shallow” isn’t good

Did Dwight do a 180 after the Star Wars criticism?

His games are usually mostly “done” at launch

Ugh

#5352 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Overwhelming view from EAG, epic art, lower playfield is a miss, game is way too easy, needs urgent code work, perhaps even a rethink! Great shots and fun to play but really shallow.

I'm excited! With the game being way to easy, I'll get to pretend I'm Bowen or Elwin. Maybe my non-pinball friends would even enjoy playing instead of heading over to the random ticket dispensing flavor of the week.

-10
#5353 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Uhhh not so fast.
The reason they are growing and expanding are a couple of things.
JJP came along in 2011 and raised the bar substantially and brought more people like myself back into pinball.

JJP has had zilch to do with Stern's growth. Their roll-out schedule since 2011 is anemic at best.

#5354 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

“Really shallow” isn’t good
Did Dwight do a 180 after the Star Wars criticism?
His games are usually mostly “done” at launch
Ugh

Watch the stream of dwight explaining the rules.... there is more to it then just getting to Munster madness..... actually Munster madness has a certain way to do things also. Then after that it levels up and things change. Also there is a risk vs reward of canceling out the jackpots/super jack pots and going for more . Then there's the zap button rules which i don't completely understand yet. Is this deep like jjp pins ...no. its more like later b/w pins but with more strategic risk vs reward and different levels of modes.

10
#5355 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

JJP has had zilch to do with Stern's growth. Their roll-out schedule since 2011 is anemic at best.

No shit on the roll out because they have F Ed it up with terrible themes and production

It’s the announcement of Woz and a new frontier of tech and LCD video that got things rolling

You obviously weren’t around then

#5356 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No shit on the roll out because they have F Ed it up with terrible themes and production
It’s the announcement of Woz and a new frontier of tech and LCD video that got things rolling
You obviously weren’t around then

Not being on Pinside doesn't mean not being around the hobby.

If Stern took JJP's LCD screen seriously, they would have had one out before the fall of 2016.

At least we agree with JJP's theme and production issues.

#5357 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Watch the stream of dwight explaining the rules.... there is more to it then just getting to Munster madness..... actually Munster madness has a certain way to do things also. Then after that it levels up and things change. Also there is a risk vs reward of canceling out the jackpots/super jack pots and going for more . Then there's the zap button rules which i don't completely understand yet. Is this deep like jjp pins ...no. its more like later b/w pins but with more strategic risk vs reward and different levels of modes.

I’ll take your word for it until I play mine BigD

I don’t want JJP/Lyman deep on every pin that’s ok but I’d at least like to not tire of it after a few months

The theme, layout and art are worth the price of admission for me

#5358 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Not being on Pinside doesn't mean not being around the hobby.
If Stern took JJP's LCD screen seriously, they would have had one out before the fall of 2016.
At least we agree with JJP's theme and production issues.

Well, I can’t help you understand the bigger picture Sinestro

You don’t get it. That’s ok

#5359 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well, I can’t help you understand the bigger picture Sinestro
You don’t get it. That’s ok

I get it. There's enough JJP fluffery around Pinside to put the porn industry to shame.

#5360 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

I get it. There's enough JJP fluffery around Pinside to put the porn industry to shame.

No. You should have seen it in the beginning

Facts are facts though

As such, I have a Woz and nothing since

#5361 1 year ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

This is why Pinball became popular again.
The Pinball Arcade, Released
February 9, 2012

That's true, but everyone who loves Pinball Arcade doesn't spend $9000 on games they've never played. Only LE hype marketing & those susceptible to it is what moves those machines.

#5362 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

That's true, but everyone who loves Pinball Arcade doesn't spend $9000 on games they've never played. Only LE hype marketing & those susceptible to it is what moves those machines.

A theme you've been particularly waiting for, beautiful art package, cool features, and a killer display all help too!

#5363 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

That's true, but everyone who loves Pinball Arcade doesn't spend $9000 on games they've never played. Only LE hype marketing & those susceptible to it is what moves those machines.

Pinball Arcade had nothing to do with why my friends and I started buying machines.

From the mid 70s through the mid 80s, we spent countless days in the local arcades. When we made a few bucks we wanted to recreate the arcade experience in our homes.

#5364 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Overwhelming view from EAG, epic art, lower playfield is a miss, game is way too easy, needs urgent code work, perhaps even a rethink! Great shots and fun to play but really shallow.

Dood, what way do you think Dwight could add or improve on? You say re-think? Was it that bad? Give us some more info.

#5365 1 year ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

A theme you've been particularly waiting for, beautiful art package, cool features, and a killer display all help too!

That's Munsters for me! I'm still waiting though! It helps that the Premium package is my favorite, but I'll never buy a launch hype LE ever again.

#5366 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Pinball Arcade had nothing to do with why my friends and I started buying machines.
From the mid 70s through the mid 80s, we spent countless days in the local arcades. When we made a few bucks we wanted to recreate the arcade experience in our homes.

That's you. There are a lot of younger people who didn't experience the golden age of pinball for real. The Pinball Arcade is how they discovered the classics, and is part of the recent pinball popularity uptick.

#5367 1 year ago

It definitely seems official. Game Room Guys list 600 LE’s. They still have some for sale if any of you are still looking for an LE.

#5368 1 year ago

Ugh we need unboxings.....all this drama is too much

#5369 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Ugh we need unboxings.....all this drama is too much

My dealer’s site says he already has premiums in stock. Hope to see one in his shop soon. My LE comes in March he tells me.

#5370 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Ugh we need unboxings.....all this drama is too much

Aren’t the unboxing photos going to look exactly like what Stern just showed us?

#5371 1 year ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

It definitely seems official. Game Room Guys list 600 LE’s. They still have some for sale if any of you are still looking for an LE.

It has long been official- 600 LEs.

#5372 1 year ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

My dealer’s site says he already has premiums in stock. Hope to see one in his shop soon. My LE comes in March he tells me.

Interesting, wonder why Stern changed the production order to: pro, Premium, and then LEs???

#5373 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

That's Munsters for me! I'm still waiting though! It helps that the Premium package is my favorite, but I'll never buy a launch hype LE ever again.

Yeah that was also TBL for me! Ironically, that was the first hyped game I ever went for and the only one I've been burned on so far.

#5374 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

JJP has had zilch to do with Stern's growth. Their roll-out schedule since 2011 is anemic at best.

It's not like one single thing made Stern suddenly take off.

A bunch of little things, all added up and created, the Perfect Stern Storm

#5375 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’ll take your word for it until I play mine BigD
I don’t want JJP/Lyman deep on every pin that’s ok but I’d at least like to not tire of it after a few months
The theme, layout and art are worth the price of admission for me

If it ends up being to easy open the out lanes up some and limit extra balls. From the people that played it on the stern stream (good players) it looked like it cld b brutal but then u wld have that one good game every now and then. No one really got into level 2

#5376 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No shit on the roll out because they have F Ed it up with terrible themes and production
It’s the announcement of Woz and a new frontier of tech and LCD video that got things rolling
You obviously weren’t around then

Ironman, Avatar, TRON, Transformers, AC/DC were terrible themes?

Ironman was a miss exactly for the reason rarehero stated, NO LE Model. Avatar tested the waters; TRON nailed it spot on. TF was a bit of a miss when they went with 3 different LE versions but still sold out sight unseen due to TRON. AC/DC nailed it. And the cycle continued...’holy shit, we can make $5million dollars before we make a single game, it might be a good idea to expand’ And here we are today.

JJP Good for the hobby...i can’t disagree; it was his pitch (if memory serves) for Stern to do the LE model. If it wasn’t for that, we might still have $5k full featured pins, but we might not have new pins at all...

#5377 1 year ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

This is why Pinball became popular again.
The Pinball Arcade, Released
February 9, 2012

The Williams Collection came before Pinball Arcade. They were both Farsight Studios though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball_Hall_of_Fame:_The_Williams_Collection

#5378 1 year ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Ironman, Avatar, TRON, Transformers, AC/DC were terrible themes?
Ironman was a miss exactly for the reason rarehero stated, NO LE Model.

Well, at the time, here's why IM didn't sell:
-People considered it an Austin Powers retheme with less stuff
-No traditional modes when that's what people expected in games
-No price drop to reflect the "cheapness" of the BOM - buyers resented such a stripped down game selling for the same price as previous packed games.

It took YEARS for Iron Man to finally be appreciated for what it was: FUN. Then it started to sell. Stern can't wait for a game to make a reputation...they need sales up front. That's why we've got LE's now.

Quoted from Eskaybee:

Avatar tested the waters; TRON nailed it spot on. TF was a bit of a miss when they went with 3 different LE versions but still sold out sight unseen due to TRON.

Actually TF didn't sell out...those things sat in warehouses forever and were drastically price slashed to finally move them out. There definitely were pre-release hype sales (me lol) ...but it fizzled quickly due to design issues, code issues, and TF fans hated the fake Optimus voice.

#5379 1 year ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

This is why Pinball became popular again.
The Pinball Arcade, Released
February 9, 2012

The reason I am here.

#5380 1 year ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Ironman, Avatar, TRON, Transformers, AC/DC were terrible themes?
Ironman was a miss exactly for the reason rarehero stated, NO LE Model. Avatar tested the waters; TRON nailed it spot on. TF was a bit of a miss when they went with 3 different LE versions but still sold out sight unseen due to TRON. AC/DC nailed it. And the cycle continued...’holy shit, we can make $5million dollars before we make a single game, it might be a good idea to expand’ And here we are today.
JJP Good for the hobby...i can’t disagree; it was his pitch (if memory serves) for Stern to do the LE model. If it wasn’t for that, we might still have $5k full featured pins, but we might not have new pins at all...

I believe Jack got Stern to do the LOTRLE that i ended up paying $5200 for. Thanks Jack.

It still takes "balls" to invest a huge amount of $$$ into pinball and "future expected growth". There are no guarantees that the "cycle" was going to keep rolling then or even now.

If Stern was still in the Dmd dark ages then yeah, it would be a total different story today.

I remember the TF days, the bloom faded quickly on that one.

When JJP entered the game it ushered in the era of "high prices". Back then, it was like holy crap, how can a pin cost $6500!

Nowadays, apparently that is chump change.

#5381 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yeah it was JJP's entry into the market AND then the venture capital guys that allowed for a huge growth cycle that has helped build Stern into what it is today.
Not some BS tiered structure of selling pins.

If I recall my history correctly it was Jack's idea to do the first Stern LEs too, so in that sense it was all JJP from start to finish.

Edit: Damnit, replied from the previous page, you just made that point right above this one

#5382 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Well, at the time, here's why IM didn't sell:
-People considered it an Austin Powers retheme with less stuff
-No traditional modes when that's what people expected in games
-No price drop to reflect the "cheapness" of the BOM - buyers resented such a stripped down game selling for the same price as previous packed games.
It took YEARS for Iron Man to finally be appreciated for what it was: FUN. Then it started to sell. Stern can't wait for a game to make a reputation...they need sales up front. That's why we've got LE's now.

There's also been an attitude change in pinball. Iron Man went from "cheap bullshit magnets, fuck this cheating game" to "ooh, I love really hard games, they get me off".

When you're dropping quarters on location a game that feels like it's cheating you sucks. When you're all about the wave of home ownership with a large collection of games one that's brutal and you can freely keep trying to get a good game on can feel good.

Look at this discussion, Monster Bash was a killer arcade title. Now Munsters rules look like they might be a nice twist on the Monster Bash formula and people are worried it's too shallow. That's the home ownership increase, people expect more for their money now in terms of long term play, as opposed to a reasonable amount of quarters to see the wizard mode before the op swaps it out for a new pin.

#5383 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's also been an attitude change in pinball. Iron Man went from "cheap bullshit magnets, fuck this cheating game" to "ooh, I love really hard games, they get me off".
When you're dropping quarters on location a game that feels like it's cheating you sucks. When you're all about the wave of home ownership with a large collection of games one that's brutal and you can freely keep trying to get a good game on can feel good.
Look at this discussion, Monster Bash was a killer arcade title. Now Munsters rules look like they might be a nice twist on the Monster Bash formula and people are worried it's too shallow. That's the home ownership increase, people expect more for their money now in terms of long term play, as opposed to a reasonable amount of quarters to see the wizard mode before the op swaps it out for a new pin.

You have a solid point, never thought of it that way before but makes a lot of sense.

#5384 1 year ago

When I heard the ball save was disabled the conspiracy theorist in me wondered if that was done to offset shallow rules.

Guess we will see soon.

#5385 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No shit on the roll out because they have F Ed it up with terrible themes and production
It’s the announcement of Woz and a new frontier of tech and LCD video that got things rolling
You obviously weren’t around then

I agree!

#5386 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

When you're dropping quarters on location a game that feels like it's cheating you sucks.

Felt that way with a Stern Star Wars that I played over the weekend. The mystery eject constantly gave me cheap drains.... completely ruined the game for me.

#5387 1 year ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Felt that way with a Stern Star Wars that I played over the weekend. The mystery eject constantly gave me cheap drains.... completely ruined the game for me.

That IS cheap and ruins the game. Happened to me on SW. Poor design and/or build standards. IM’s magnet causing a drain is different. That’s based on the risk you take by hitting Monger straight on. Monger “attacking” back is a feature. A scoop kicking down the drain is a defect.

#5388 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No shit on the roll out because they have F Ed it up with terrible themes and production
It’s the announcement of Woz and a new frontier of tech and LCD video that got things rolling
You obviously weren’t around then

No question about it. JJP, kicked it up a notch on WIZ and Stern responded. I only hope in some way the energy around this Munsters pin carries over to Elvira 3.

#5389 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'll never buy a launch hype LE ever again.

Me neither!

Not for at least another 3 months.

#5390 1 year ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Felt that way with a Stern Star Wars that I played over the weekend. The mystery eject constantly gave me cheap drains.... completely ruined the game for me.

Quoted from Rarehero:

That IS cheap and ruins the game. Happened to me on SW. Poor design and/or build standards. IM’s magnet causing a drain is different. That’s based on the risk you take by hitting Monger straight on. Monger “attacking” back is a feature. A scoop kicking down the drain is a defect.

There is a ball save option for the mystery eject and has been in the code for 8 or so months. If you find a machine without the ball save, holding down the right flipper helps quite a bit; I know that's not ideal but it does help. Also a power setting for the eject has been in the code for about the same time or longer. You can lower the setting and the ball always hits the right flipper. But I'm with you, owners that have SW on route need to dial in their machine, there is no excuse, the options are there in the code and have been for a while. Back on topic, Stern have a winner on their hands here. Munsters looks like a lot of fun.

#5391 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

That IS cheap and ruins the game. Happened to me on SW. Poor design and/or build standards. IM’s magnet causing a drain is different. That’s based on the risk you take by hitting Monger straight on. Monger “attacking” back is a feature. A scoop kicking down the drain is a defect.

Operators fault, poor setup, not testing his game.

#5392 1 year ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Operators fault, poor setup, not testing his game.

To some extent. Usually games are designed in a way that the scoop will always shoot to the right spot. There shouldn’t be any variation in the design & build...yet a lot of recent games have had STDM issues from scoops or saucers. When many units of the same title have that as a consistent problem, that’s something that wasn’t quite tested and tweaked before mass production

#5393 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

What's the biggest Stern LE run? Star Trek? That was 1000 right? IIRC they sold out, but I guess that number was too big to make reasonable?

Must be AC/DC if you count all the different LEs, surely.

#5394 1 year ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

This is why Pinball became popular again.
The Pinball Arcade, Released
February 9, 2012

There's a difference: Pinball Arcade hasn't improved since then.

#5395 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Overwhelming view from EAG, epic art, lower playfield is a miss, game is way too easy, needs urgent code work, perhaps even a rethink! Great shots and fun to play but really shallow.

Was that the Premium or LE? Not that there would be any difference in play. Looking at the inserts and what they signified, I had figured it was going to be the lower playfield that added more game depth (pun not intended). Maybe after Star Wars was heavily criticised for not having enough style (though owners love the substance), they deliberately went for the 'style over substance' approach this time as that's what operators would want, and its direct competitor Monster Bash, while beloved, has the same reputation.

#5396 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

If it ends up being to easy open the out lanes up some and limit extra balls. From the people that played it on the stern stream (good players) it looked like it cld b brutal but then u wld have that one good game every now and then. No one really got into level 2

Seems like Munsters Madness level 1 is easy to get to.

Level 2 is not.

The question should be, is it fun trying to get to level 2?

Seems similar to MB - easy first mini-wizard mode.

Not sure why the second wizard mode ( level 2 ) doesn't have it's own insert and called something else?

#5397 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

If it ends up being to easy open the out lanes up some and limit extra balls. From the people that played it on the stern stream (good players) it looked like it cld b brutal but then u wld have that one good game every now and then. No one really got into level 2

Hmm if you get to Munster madness on your first ball with a steep and polished playfield how does that make it harder - why do I want to get to level 2 if it’s just rinse and repeat.

Too much is close to the start button as Dwight would say, it needs more depth and more dimension. Even stacking th jackpots is simple to get... slightly nervous that it’s hard to do that as there are nit a lot of things to hit in the main playfield area.

#5398 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Hmm if you get to Munster madness on your first ball with a steep and polished playfield how does that make it harder - why do I want to get to level 2 if it’s just rinse and repeat.
Too much is close to the start button as Dwight would say, it needs more depth and more dimension. Even stacking th jackpots is simple to get... slightly nervous that it’s hard to do that as there are nit a lot of things to hit in the main playfield area.

Maybe we all email Dwight to re-think level 2 at least?
I don't mind level 1 being easy, as he want's all to experience Munster Madness.
But Level 2, please be more meet to the bone!

#5399 1 year ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

The Williams Collection came before Pinball Arcade. They were both Farsight Studios though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball_Hall_of_Fame:_The_Williams_Collection

Yes. I still have it and play it now and then on my PSP. If it was not for this I wouldnt have Taxi or WW Pinballs
Came out in 2007 .

20190117_215556 (resized).jpg
#5400 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Hmm if you get to Munster madness on your first ball with a steep and polished playfield how does that make it harder - why do I want to get to level 2 if it’s just rinse and repeat.
Too much is close to the start button as Dwight would say, it needs more depth and more dimension. Even stacking th jackpots is simple to get... slightly nervous that it’s hard to do that as there are nit a lot of things to hit in the main playfield area.

I don't think level 2 is quite just a rinse and repeat since it's supposed to not be as easy. Dwight also did say that finishing level 1 is less than half of the game. Isn't DP kind of the same way with the second go around of the missions being more difficult?

Rob

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