(Topic ID: 172628)

Multimorphic P3 (Lexy et al.) Who's in?

By Mbecker

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 292 posts
  • 58 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by _xizor
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you thinking about buying the P3 system?”

  • I'm on the preorder list and I'm for sure ponying up when my name is called 30 votes
    13%
  • I'm on the list.. but not locked in. We'll see where price lands and when I get called. 17 votes
    7%
  • I'm thinking about buying one but no need to get on the list right now 17 votes
    7%
  • I want to get some time on it first before committing to anything 7 votes
    3%
  • Let's see how production and QC go and how happy first purchasers are 29 votes
    13%
  • Maybe in a few years when we see what happens with future games/dev 37 votes
    16%
  • Not really interested and/or too expensive for my taste 33 votes
    14%
  • Would never buy one -- ever! 36 votes
    16%
  • I'm very excited to play it on location/friends places but it's unlikely I would buy one. 25 votes
    11%

(231 votes)

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#6 7 years ago

Great poll! I'm very excited about the P3, so many possibilities, sure hope that I can pull the cash together when I get called.

#45 7 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

There is the problem. Heighway exists. You can have 4 of their games for about 15k. And you would likely recover most of the cost selling in the future.

I like Heighway and their system, it will do well. However, as a multi-game platform, the P3 is much more flexible and practical. The P3 playfield modules are smaller and lighter and easier and quicker to swap and store.

The beauty of the P3 system is that you only need to swap the parts of the machine which need to be different. On most games the lower playfield layout (flippers, slings, outlanes) is the same, it doesn't always need to be changed from game to game. With the Heighway system you are swapping the whole playfield, including the in-screen LCD every time. This means that additional games on the P3 will likely be around half the cost of those for the Heighway system. Andrew has said that playfield-only game kits will be around 60% of a new game. For Alien standard, that puts the kit at $3870. On the other hand Gerry has estimated that additional games for the P3 will cost around $1500 for the simpler games to $2500 for more complex games.

As the large LCD playfield is dynamic and interactive on the P3, this creates the possibility for multiple games to be played with the same upper-playfield module, or without utilising the upper playfield at all. These games will be potentially be even cheaper than those described above.

Additionally, you will be able change other parts of the system (such as the flippers, slings and outlanes) if you want. Players will be able to mix and match different upper, middle and lower playfields, creating even more gameplay experiences. In short, the flexibility of the system is unlike anything else out there.

Here's a short video which illustrates the concept really well:

P.S. I hate to compare one manufacturer to another, Heighway is awesome, I think if you ran a P3 AND a Heighway system in your gameroom or location you would have a great setup. However, I think the comparison is warranted to show how the systems differ.

#47 7 years ago
Quoted from Tribonian:

Swappable upper 1/3 intriguing. My concern about the hardware is that the geometry on the lower 2/3 will never change, so if you master the nudging, it could make for some long ball times.

You can change the lower 2/3. The lower 2/3 of the playfield is made up of lower and middle playfield modules which can be swapped very easily. They slide in and out of the game over the top of the large LCD, see the video I posted above for a demonstration of this.

#65 7 years ago

I made a split-screen video comparing the playfield swap on the Heighway Pinball Gamechange System (HPGS) with that on the P3. Sorry for the low resolution, it's all my laptop could handle.

#84 7 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Realize you are here trying to downplay the main distinguishing feature of P3.

I would say that there are many major distinguishing features of the P3 apart from the interactive and dynamic LCD playfield:
Multi-game capability
Swappable playfield modules (upper mid and lower).
Swappable flipper housings
Swappable magnetic artwork
Open-source software
Open-platform
Increased servicability due to the modular nature of the system

Yes, the LCD playfield is a huge innovation but other things like the P3's multi-game capabilities and the fact that anyone can develop games for the P3 are likely to have a much bigger impact on the industry.

Quoted from sd_tom:

Honestly though, My personal opinion is that this whole approach was an answer in search of a problem.

You don't need to search far on this forum to find people complaining of problems with the pinball industry or the hobby. Probably the most noticeable recently is the price of individual games which is discussed in thread after thread. However, other problems include a lack of space to house games, the lack of innovation, the inability to appeal to younger players, the inability for players of different skill levels to compete, games only being geared to a single demographic, etc. These are all problems the P3 is seeking to address.

#86 7 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

A lot of that is that the demo graphics are kind of crappy looking (LL included). If that's a technical limitation, then it won't get better. If it's not, hire an artist / graphic artist.

There's no technical limitation. The thing that people seem to be missing is that the P3 is open-source, open-platform. If you don't like the artwork on a particular game, that's not a big problem. There can be an infinite number of games with an infinite number of artwork packages. It's kind of pointless to say to Gerry "I don't like the artwork on LL, fix it!" when he is offering up a system for which anyone can make games or modify existing games. If you don't like the artwork on LL, just wait for one of the other games being developed by Multimorphic or another third party. Or better still, make your own game with artwork you like.

#91 7 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Can we please drop this ridiculous argument. If I don't like it now, I'm not going to spend 10k for the opportunity to develop my own game costing.

That's not really my argument, I was trying to illustrate that the fact that the P3 is a multi-game platform means that it is less restricted by personal tastes relating to the artwork packages of particular games.

Quoted from sd_tom:

Then why does every one of the 5 games looks similar '1995' era? If it's not a limitation, do better. Sex sells! Look at JPOP having people throw money at him for being good at that part, and only that part. He's only hurting himself

I imagine it has to do with the fact that Multimorphic is developing dynamic and interactive artwork rather than static artwork which is a lot easier and cheaper (remember they have been funding everything by themselves without pre-order money so far). It might also simply be the style they have chosen or the preferred style of the people they have working for them. I think we'll see many different artwork styles as different people begin to make games for the platform. I agree with your suggestion that higher quality, less dynamic artwork might be a better approach for some games.

Quoted from sd_tom:

if he's using this long 'customer' list to justify sticking to his guns about certain things

What exactly do you think he is "sticking to his guns" about? (genuine question)

#93 7 years ago
Quoted from Sticky:

For example, you can not do Hobbit style pop up targets on the playfield due to the screen. They would have to be virtual targets. You also would not be able to do a Big Lebowski style lower playfield. Again, it would have to be virtual.

Quoted from Sticky:

I just wish the screen wasn't a limiting factor on the lower half of the playfield.

You can see it as a limiting factor but it also has enormous potential, the least of which is that it allows you to change the artwork to correspond with whatever game you have chosen to play. Yes, you can't have stuff going through the playfield but if you have a wooden playfield then the only way to do a swappable system is to have full playfield swaps like Heighway.

I think the advantages of this LCD playfield outweigh the drawbacks and they are only just scratching the surface of the possibilities with the games they have shown so far. The fact that you can position information right where it is happening (in front of a target or underneath a slingshot or flipper, for example) will make for a much more intuitive gameplay experience which will draw new players in much more easily. I think it will also allow for many new types of strategic games and rulesets.

As Mbecker has said, they will need to be more creative with floating mechs but this should lead to new, innovative types of targets, bumpers, kickout, holes etc.

#95 7 years ago

Good answer @sd_tom. I see your concerns, I don't think anyone can say how it is going to go but it will be interesting for sure. My only response is that I think that some of the things that hobbyists come up with on this forum are equal to, if not superior to, the stuff that the manufacturers put out. For example, Keith Elwin's Archer machine, Rosh's Casino, Scott Danesi's Total Annihilation, etc. Now, whether or not people like this choose to work on the P3 is another matter. However, I could see the development of games starting out with hobbyists and then slowly ramping up until there is enough of a customer base to attract larger manufacturers to make games for the P3.

#111 7 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Speaking of which -- what happened to cosmic kart racing? Is that still in the works?

They mentioned it in the Expo talk which I just listened to:

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2016/multimorphic.mp3

It sounds pretty cool, it seems that it is going to be a racing game where you can compete simultaneously with players on other P3's linked over the internet. I guess this will require a bit more development time because of the added complexity of internet connectivity.

#135 7 years ago

Anyone play the P3 at the Houston show?

#137 7 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

yeah. the booth is never empty.
Canyon has gotten more polish since the last time I saw it (TPF). I noticed some intro scenes on that game; and there is a time extender coin you can "capture". I'm sure their is other stuff... I just suck at it.

Cool, thanks.

1 week later
#149 7 years ago

Man, I really hope some of the great p-roc homebrew guys start making games for this. Would love to see P3 titles from people like Rosh, Compy, Sk8ball and TheNoTrashCougar.

1 month later
#160 7 years ago

Thanks for the info Zitt. Multimorphic had the most exciting presentation at TPF last year, can't wait to see what they do this year. Gerry seems to save his new stuff for TPF.

1 month later
#167 7 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

- When I signed up, the plan was Lexi + Cosmic Cart Racing for $10K, and now it looks like a redemption game (which in a home environment I really have no use for) and some rethemes of Lexi for $10K. Is there a way to forego Cannon Lagoon to get a credit for some or all of the cost of Cosmic Cart Racing when it comes out?

I'm in the 2nd run. I'm pretty sure that if you got in early when Cosmic Cart Racing was part of the package you will get it plus the other 5 games (Lexy Lightspeed – Escape From Earth, Lexy Lightspeed – Secret Agent Showdown, Cannon Lagoon, ROCs, and Barnyard).

This is from an early email I got from Gerry:

"Everybody who took advantage of our pre-order program through 3/20/2016 has a spot reserved in our production queue and will have the opportunity to follow through with their order and receive the 5-game package deal. This includes everybody who was on the pre-order list before the 5-game package deal was announced. The way our current promotion system works, everybody on the pre-order list at the time of a new promotion gets the benefits of that new promotion and all promotions offered thereafter until their machine enters production. That means our earliest pre-order customers get the benefits of every deal offered since we started offering promotions. "

However, you might want to confirm with Gerry.

#168 7 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

The games that have been demonstrated so far have not shown a lot of 3D graphics capability. Does the host machine have the capability to support 3D graphics-intensive game designs? Is the host machine hardware upgradeable?

I recall that his was answered by Gerry in an earlier thread, not so long ago, maybe look through the threads in the Multimorphic subforum.

#169 7 years ago

Found it! Not sure this completely answers your question but it is from this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/multimorphic-p3-october-2016-public-update

Hi Gerry -
Will the play field display be 4K resolution at final release or are you sticking with 1080p?
Curious to know about your thoughts on new standards that are available on that front...

Our playfield display is a ruggedized commerical 1080p display. I doubt many would be very happy with the price of a 4k one at this point. Then again, median prices for even single-themed machines seem to be catching up and passing us.
Regardless of price, there are a lot of other variables that go into such a decision, like rendering power (CPU and video card) and content development, and we've sized our computer system to be powerful enough for new titles for [hopefully] years. Most of the content in games like LL-EE is rendered dynamically. We're not just showing video clips. Generating 4k quality content would be an expensive proposition, and we see very little value in that now. Our focus today is on fun gameplay. IMO, a 4k display won't make games any more fun than a 1080p for the next few years.
All that said, our system is designed to allow quick swaps/upgrades of components like the display (and almost everything else). The display literally slides out of the front of our (now patented) playfield rail system. Upgrading the 1080p display to a 4k one in the future would take all of about 30 seconds.
That was the long version. The short version is... we'll be sticking with 1080p for now, but upgrading to 4k in the future will be easy.
- Gerry
http:www.multimorphic.com

#173 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I am in the same boat. The P3 offer was more interesting when there was 2 full blown pinball games attached to it. When it switched to Lexy + the others, it wasn't as interesting.

Quoted from Mbecker:

For those that were on that preorder It certainly does seem like a big downgrade and bummer to go from kart racing to lagoon

OK, I recieved an email from Gerry on this, the information I gave above was incorrect. See below:

We've received a number of inquiries about our status on Cosmic Cart Racing (CCR) and whether or not it's possible to apply the P3's purchase price of $9875 to LL-EE and a future shipment of CCR instead of LL-EE, LL-SAS, CL, ROCs, and Barnyard. The short answer is yes; email me if that's your wish. The long answer is provided below:

When we first announced the 0-dollar pre-order for the P3, we announced Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth along with plans to develop Cosmic Cart Racing, and we suggested that there could be an option to purchase both games for an introductory price. We later made the corporate decision to delay the development of CCR in favor of expanding our potential customer base and showing off a wider range of platform capabilities through a variety of non-traditional games like Cannon Lagoon, ROCs, Barnyard, and the multi-ball mini-game Lexy Lightspeed - Secret Agent Showdown. Having changed the development sequence of the games, we also changed the multi-game pre-order option to include LL-EE, CL, and the mini-games instead of LL-EE and CCR.

As has been confirmed through email responses, many of you are excited about the 5 game package and how the additional games will appeal to a wider range of people in your families and communities. We've also received a number of emails asking about receiving the P3 with only LL-EE and then being offered CCR for free when it's released, as we suggested in our original announcement. The varying opinions validate our decision to develop a multi-game capable platform and explore new pinball gameplay mechanics, and that's really nice to see.

At the end of the day, we want everybody to be happy with their P3 and the games they choose to own. Therefore, we're happy to give you the following 2 options for your outstanding payment request:

1) Accept the offer as-is. For the $9875 purchase price, you'll receive a P3 with LL-EE, LL-SAS, CL, ROCs, and Barnyard
2) Switch to the CCR deal. For the $9875 purchase price, you'll receive a P3 with LL-EE and credit for the purchase of CCR, which will ship when it becomes available.

To switch to option #2 (CCR), please respond to this email and let me know. I'll then update your invoice to indicate the change and send it back to you as confirmation.

We'll also be making all of the games available for purchase individually. So regardless of your current choice, you'll have the option to add the other games to your game library at any point in the future. Prices are currently TBD and will be based on a number of factors, but we're still on track with our initial estimates of $1500-$3000 for games with new playfield modules and much less for software-only mini-games.

As for the status of CCR...

Now that we've reached production, part of our design team is shifting focus back to CCR, with the intention of completing it by the end of 2017. That being realistic depends of course on how smoothly the P3 rollout process goes, but we have resources who will be solely focused on CCR dev.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

1 month later
#194 7 years ago

Yep, this is the future, can't wait to see the new head-to-head online game which will be revealed at TPF!

So many other features are already in place that are going to make the P3 a new paradigm in pinball:

-handicapping of better players to allow families and friends to play at the same level
-1 vs team play, team vs team play, etc.
-reduced cost of game production will lead to a much wider variety of game styles (kids games, adventure games, puzzle games, educational games, gambling games, etc.)
-modular components will lead to a much wider variety of playfields, flipper layouts, controls, etc.

This is flying under the radar now because the old guard can't see the potential but this platform will change pinball forever.

1 week later
#198 7 years ago

Good luck to Gerry and the crew at TPF! Everybody please post your reviews, pics and videos of the new games.

#201 7 years ago
Quoted from lurch:

Pinfest? I'd like to play first before I consider pulling the trigger on this. Anyone?

Quoted from gstellenberg:

Shows after April of this year are a maybe. We'd love to have machines at all of them. If you run a show and want a P3 there, please contact me. If you know the people who run shows you're attending, please have them contact me.
When we ship a lot more machines, I expect we'll have a presence at most shows. Until then, we'll need to talk about it.
- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

4 weeks later
#204 7 years ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

I went to their manufacturing plant

Any pics or update on how manufacturing is going?

3 weeks later
#208 6 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Any predictions when new website drops with dev kits available? When first customer game ships? Gotta be any day now I keep thinking

Yep, been thinking it should be soon too. Gerry said that everything was delayed "a few weeks" in the last newsletter. The first run was supposed to go out in April so if "a few weeks" means 3, they should be ready by next week. I guess it depends on how significant the changes were. They may have needed time to manufacture and test new parts.

#210 6 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

As solar said; Gerry's update said there was a delay to address some of the issues identified during TPF.
I can't seem to find the update in my inbox or I'd post it.

Ask and ye shall recieve:

A little over a month ago, we assembled the first 8 production P3s in time for the Texas Pinball Festival. Having a display with 8 machines gave us our first ever opportunity to show people our full vision... one machine, many games, endless fun! We could point to any one of the 8 machine and say it's the exact same as all of the others; it's just running a different game. Games we had running at the show were:

Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth
Cannon Lagoon
ROCs
Barnyard
Wizard
Grand Slam Rally
Heads Up!

This was the first public showing of Wizard, Grand Slam Rally, and Heads Up, all of which are fairly early in their development cycles.

Wizard is a pinball-training application that gave people a small taste of its potential to introduce players to pinball techniques, guide them through practice sessions, and score each player's proficiency. It included both onscreen instructions and video showing how particular techniques are performed, and it identified every time a known technique was successfully performed (ie. flipper passes, post passes, tap passes, cradling, etc). This app has the potential to teach beginners the basics of aiming and ball control and give experts a controlled environment for them to practice both individual techniques and combos.

Grand Slam Rally is the first P3 game developed by a 3rd party (86Pixels) using a pre-release version of our development kit. It's a pitch-and-bat style game that works with the Cannon Lagoon playfield and makes heavy use of dynamic playfield artwork and popup playfield scoops. It can 'pitch' balls out of any of 5 playfield launch locations at a variety of speeds, and it can dynamically label the shots with reward values (single, double, triple, home-run). The scoops pop up for randomly placed outs after each pitch.

Heads Up! is what we believe to be the first internet-connected physical pinball game. Two machines connect to each other over a wireless network and allow two players to battle against each other. The objectives are fairly straightforward: shoot green shots; don't shoot red shots. Green shots award points. Red shots 'teleport' your ball to the other machine, giving your opponent more opportunities to score points. It's very simple in concept but layered with strategic complexities, and it was enjoyed by men and women across all age ranges and skill levels.

Like usual, we didn't record nearly as much video as we'd hoped. When all of the games are more mature, we'll record some high definition video in a quieter setting. The following is a full game of Heads Up!. (Watching tip: Focus on just one machine for a while. Also, launches from the center lane going straight down the middle are intentional and awesome! They can be used strategically)

It was enlightening and validating talking to people about the variety of games; there was a pretty even distribution of which ones were people's favorites. The beauty of the P3 is that you can play all of the games (and many more that'll be developed in the coming years) on a single machine, thereby completely changing the value proposition of owning a pinball machine.

With TPF behind us, and having learned a great deal from the assembly of the first 8 machines, we've spent much of April identifying and tweaking things that weren't robust enough for machines going to customers. The result is we're a few weeks behind schedule on our first production run and have communicated as much to all affected customers. So far, our 2nd production run schedule is unaffected, as most of the long lead-time parts that have already been ordered don't need to change.

As we pass the assembly reigns to our contract manufacturing partner, we're able to spend more and more time on new developments. We're continuing to ramp up efforts on our highly anticipated Cosmic Cart Racing game, and we're looking to wrap up the first public release of our development kit to help others create games for the P3. We're also looking forward to releasing our new website, webstore, and customer support portal.

Thank you all for your continued support. I love hearing your suggestions and comments; please keep them coming. Also, while the machines in both of our first two production runs are going to paid customers (including many of you), we are currently maintaining a sign-up list for customers interested in buying machines from production run #3. For production run #3 we hope to move away from the build-to-order model, moving to a model where we can immediately ship from inventory. If you're on the production #3 list, we'll give you the opportunity to buy a machine before offering it to the general public. You can email me to get on this list.

1 month later
#220 6 years ago
Quoted from EvanBingham:

Looks like lexi lightspeed will be included in the bat city open tournament this weekend. There should be a decent amount of twitch streaming of the game assuming it handles the abuse.

I hope they upload these to Youtube, I tried to watch some on Twitch but it wasn't loading properly.

Hopefully, Gerry posts an update at the end of the month, we need some more P3 action in here.

#225 6 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

As for the lower 2/3, Gerry has talked about this before but there's two things to mention here.

One more thing:
3. The system supports the placement of elements in the lower 2/3 of the playfield - some future games will no doubt take advantage of this.

#227 6 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

It would seem the next level tech would be able to have virtual playfield elements physically impact the ball.

That would be cool, but how? Magnets maybe.

#232 6 years ago

That was fun to watch the game in the finals, thanks.

#237 6 years ago

You can see the advantages of the playfield LCD in that stream. It's much easier for the commentators to say "he needs to shoot the shot which that huge blue arrow is pointing to" than "see that tiny blinking yellow insert, third from the left? He needs to shoot that."

Quoted from Brijam:

The overall art package doesn't draw one in like Dialed In, Houdini, or most new Sterns do. I think the lack of a DMD or LCD on the backbox is the reason - there is nothing /moving/ on the backbox to draw your attention. From a distance it makes the machine look wrong/broken/boring.

I think that, for spectators and on location, it would be cool to have an overhead camera and an extra LCD in the backbox showing the playfield action. Maybe something like that could be developed in the future.

#239 6 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

I'm hoping for this as well -- at least a backbox LCD for home so other players can be more involved. Right now it's awesome for the person playing, but unless you're watching from the side of the game it's hard to see what's going on and impossible to see scores.

Actually, this probably wouldn't be too hard for someone to do as a mod themselves.

#245 6 years ago

Does anyone have news about production from the Bat City event? Anyone talk to Gerry? I would love to know what's been happening over the past couple of months. Happy to wait until the next monthly update if there is one coming up.

#248 6 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Please excuse me now while I call the freight company to discuss pickup schedules for new P3s!

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#251 6 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

so a production run is currently ... 8 machines ??

If I remember correctly, the first production run is 20 machines. Of these, the first 8 have been retained by Multimorphic for testing and promotional purposes. So, the remaining 12 must be just about to ship to customers.

#256 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Aside from the fact that I'm one of the original orders, I couldn't be happier for Gerry and his official launch of Lexy.

Are you in the first run @cheeks? It's going to be fun to see these puppies get delivered.

1 week later
#269 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Is this referring to the first or second run? I have not heard anything about production timing in the last few weeks and I'm in the first run.

I believe they are referring to the second run. In the last newsletter Gerry said the following (referring to the first run):

Quoted from Mbecker:

No production machines have officially shipped yet, but that's about to change...
Please excuse me now while I call the freight company to discuss pickup schedules for new P3s!

So, I would assume from that your game must be almost finished and ready to ship.

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