(Topic ID: 172628)

Multimorphic P3 (Lexy et al.) Who's in?

By Mbecker

2 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 292 posts
  • 58 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by _xizor
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders


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Topic poll

“Are you thinking about buying the P3 system?”

  • I'm on the preorder list and I'm for sure ponying up when my name is called 30 votes
  • I'm on the list.. but not locked in. We'll see where price lands and when I get called. 17 votes
  • I'm thinking about buying one but no need to get on the list right now 17 votes
  • I want to get some time on it first before committing to anything 7 votes
  • Let's see how production and QC go and how happy first purchasers are 28 votes
  • Maybe in a few years when we see what happens with future games/dev 36 votes
  • Not really interested and/or too expensive for my taste 33 votes
  • Would never buy one -- ever! 36 votes
  • I'm very excited to play it on location/friends places but it's unlikely I would buy one. 25 votes

(229 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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#63 2 years ago

Man people need to get off this "video game" push. How many times do people need to say this isn't virtual pinball? The PHYSICAL ball to VIRTUAL target interaction is secondary to the rest of the gameplay. Also, as the video provided shows, lower playfield inserts will allow for targets and mechs closer to the flippers. I've talked with Gerry that their next game needs to have either ramp entrances, targets, pop bumpers, or something overlaying the lower playfield. Not cause I need it, but so many people can't get over the open lower playfield (*cough* AFM *cough*) and don't understand this is a possibility of thew game design flexibility.

As for price point, $10K is steep, but getting relatively less so every day it seems. I love the Heighway games (I want Full Throttle and Alien) but people are flat wrong about getting 4 games for $15K. Straight from their website, Alien is $6450 and the Alien kit is $4350. Full Throttle is a couple hundred cheaper. So technically, you can't even get a full game and 2 playfields for $15K, much less 4 games. But let's say $15K for 3 to make it easy. If P3 is $10K and extra playfields cost $2500, the break even on the systems would be 3 games for $15K. P3 would be $2K cheaper per game after this. Even more so if Gerry lands closer to $1500 per game.

#64 2 years ago

One thing that hurts me to read, but I can't argue with is the claim that you don't hear P3 more because people don't care. Unfortunately I think this is truer than I'd like. There are a number of factors. To the outsider, P3 doesn't look like it's advanced THAT much in the last few years, so it just feels like that thing that will never get here. Somehow there is still the misconception that this is video pinball (couldn't be more wrong), and that the playfield layout is too barren. Finally, the lack of a licensed game gives people that haven't played the system very little to grasp onto from the outside.

I think most if not all of these will be addressed in 2017. Releasing a second game with a more diverse playfield will alleviate the layout issue. Announcing some type of cool licensed theme could get outsiders drooling. And getting the system into more locations can get more people playing and realizing this is real pinball, not a video game.

I think (hope) once the train gets moving down the track, P3 will get all the attention it needs/wants. I'm so excited for the possibilities. I can't wait to get this system in my house and to see what other 3rd party developers can come up with in terms of add-on games.

#81 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Haha! I think he was referring to the way the flippers/slings work maybe rather than a general statement about pinballs
There's a lot of interaction with the on screen video so I think it's fair that this won't be everyone's cup of tea.. it's closer to a video game than anything previous minus virtual machines. Of course that's lexy.. future games with other modules could potentially have much less and use it differently -- optical illusions? Moving backgrounds for modes, or movie quality graphics

But there really isn't that much interaction with the ball and the screen. Hitting targets and such manifest in feedback on the main screen, and there are things like ball trails, but there aren't many times when the main objective is to hit virtual targets with the ball. Search the crates is certainly one, and I'm sure there are others, but it really is a minor component of the shots in Lexy. Now, if people don't like the dynamic graphics, or have some issue with the playfield screen visuals, that's a different story, but that's not the main complaint I see.

It's first and foremost the "virtual pinball" argument, which just isn't true. Case-in-point, Jungle is over in the Heighway Alien thread telling people he doesn't believe people will plunk down $10k on the P3 until the ball physically interacting with the machine is a major part of the game. People really just need to stop commenting on things they obviously know nothing about.

If I were Gerry, I'd be pulling my hair out every time this argument comes up. Oh wait, he already did.

#85 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Realize you are here trying to downplay the main distinguishing feature of P3.

I don't agree with this. The dynamic art on the playfield is just one of the distinguishing aspects of the P3 (although the most readily visible), and the ball hitting virtual targets as a main objective is a small subset of that. My point was that while P3 can function as a virtual pinball of sorts, that is far, far from the reality or the intention.

Now, if you don't like the art, I'm not going to argue that point. I'm not wowed by the playfield art, but I don't mind it. The backglass art is another thing altogether (not in a good way). I'm guessing the style/art quality on the playfield is more skill/art direction related than hardware, so that will likely vary from game to game. Personally, I think the way the environments vary based on the setting and objectives is cool. Does P3 have XBox level graphics? Certainly not, and I don't think it should. But maybe having the monitor there at all with videogame-ish graphics sets that expectation.

While I personally would not prefer to have a static playfield graphic, that might not be a bad way to go with one of the upcoming titles. Your term "evolutionary" resonated with me. Gerry went for revolutionary in all aspects of the P3, and I think he achieved it. Like the style and execution or not, what he's doing is revolutionary in pinball. But maybe that is what's created so much disconnect. Maybe evolution in the most visible aspect would have gained more connection from average people than revolution did. It's not what I personally want to see, but more than what I want personally, I want what's going to be long-term good for Gerry and P3. The beauty of a multiple title system is you could continue down multiple paths with game direction.

#96 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I guess the most pointed thing is the console/cartridge model .. culminating in him deflecting criticisms of the release content by saying 'third party can do that'.. I just don't feel there are people waiting to become cartridge developers in a serious way.. in a hobbyist way.. fine.
But people trying to make a kit for his system to sell other people, with all the same disciplines you need for a pinball machine (mech, electronics, software, art) and manufacturing of said module, negotiating license, etc and so forth. Its just not out there IMHO. I mean, the only scenario I could see is one of the boutiques (DP, Jpop, Spooky) deciding making entire machines is too much work .. but that still leaves them plenty of hard problems to complete? For what, the real 100 sales (vs however long of a list he had now, back to my point) of people willing to give this a chance without 'compelling' content already? Or you have crap modules cause you can't do anything too custom cause you don't get economy of scale for doing cool mechs.

Quoted from solarvalue:

Good answer sd_tom. I see your concerns, I don't think anyone can say how it is going to go but it will be interesting for sure. My only response is that I think that some of the things that hobbyists come up with on this forum are equal to, if not superior to, the stuff that the manufacturers put out. For example, Keith Elwin's Archer machine, Rosh's Casino, Scott Danesi's Total Annihilation, etc. Now, whether or not people like this choose to work on the P3 is another matter. However, I could see the development of games starting out with hobbyists and then slowly ramping up until there is enough of a customer base to attract larger manufacturers to make games for the P3.

Critical mass is the answer this these questions. I love the P3, I think Lexy is super fun and cool (although I'm not going to argue the graphics point), and I'm looking forward to the possibilities. I'm someone generationally between pinball and video games, so I'm cool with the hybrid visual approach. I'm in and for a $1500 price point, I'd buy just about any additional P3 game that came out, if it was remotely cool. The question is how many people will adopt this as-is. If there magically become 1000 P3 customers out there, the economics of people designing games (hobbyists or professionals) is obvious. At midpoints along the way that becomes less clear. People still don't understand the platform and the possibilities either, which hurts the desire and creativity.

I hope desperately, both selfishly and for Gerry, that the P3 takes off and there are lots of additional games to support the platform. It's been a slow burn for sure, but we're getting to the point where things will come to bear, one way or the other.

#105 2 years ago

I know Gerry mentioned assisting in some fashion with the logistics around production and the physical end, but I'm not sure exactly what that means. I'm sure it's still mainly on the designer to do most of the heavy lifting with that. That said, Gerry obviously has a vested interest in getting things up and going with a small library sooner than later, so who knows what the plan is.

That said, because the system is open, designers could develop software only games that utilize existing hardware layouts. P3 is shipping with a separate mini-game that uses the Lexy upper playfield. Designers would have the ability to piggyback off of other playfield designs and just design new graphics, rules, etc. This would eliminate the production aspect of physically building a playfield module.

That's part of what makes this system so encouraging, the options. Whether any of the options pan out is still TBD, but I'm hopeful as a consumer.

#107 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Speaking of which -- what happened to cosmic kart racing? Is that still in the works?

It is, but they wisely decided that given the limited resources and the need to get P3 on the map, it made more sense to get one game out and stop trying to work on Lexy and CCR in parallel.

1 month later
#158 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Man... I was over at Gerry's this afternoon shootin' the sh1t and talking about pinball when he shows me some of the new P3 projects he's working on... I'm sweared to secrecy... so can't give any details; but there is one game based upon Cannon Lagoon's PF that is funking fun!
Lexy's a good game... but it's "pinball" which to me is great... but is missing a certain social component as you can only really ridicule the person playing while you watch. I'm just not a good enough player to really stack up against anyone on Lexy; so I'm always getting my arse kicked. Cannon is a good game; but again - I can't make the shots very well. Skill issue again.
This new game; I was having a blast... I must have played a dozen or so times because he added a social aspect to gameplay I've only seen in one other game.
He showed me a couple of the other early titles his team is working on... I gotta say that this round of new games is defiantly pushing the Pinball machine in new directions! This game and his innovation are really starting to show in the newer games. I hope that his team makes his self imposed deadline this march... and I'm sure many of you will be surprised at Multimorphic's ingenuity.
I wasn't sure from the conversation how many of these games are third parties and how much is "in house"; but however they are being made is really a good thing.

This is AWESOME news. I'm in on a few other upcoming games, but there is nothing in the pipeline from any other manufacturer that excites me as much as P3. To hear that there are additional games in the works and somewhat playable already is fantastic news. I can't wait to get my game next year.

2 months later
#180 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

One dollar of interest is one dollar I didn't have before. $6k over two months at .8% is still money I don't need to part with.

I signed his preorder list like the next guy. I was not one of the founding; paid-in-full people in his first batch. AFAIK; I'm probably about midway thru the second batch.

I'm one of the founding people who jumped on back when the P3 was a bunch of PVC and tech demos. Really excited to see this coming to form shortly.

3 months later
#253 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

so a production run is currently ... 8 machines ??

I don't know the specific production numbers, but I can confirm that whatever they are, they will be underwhelming to the general public.

HOWEVER, unlike essentially every other start-up, they did this without collecting money from people to fund their R&D. Not to mention that their R&D is multiples greater than any other pinball company, since they're the only ones that are truly innovating in this industry.

Gerry deserves more respect than anyone else in boutique pinball (although Spooky deserves mad props too). While they may have taken a virtual eternity to go from concept to market, the reason this has been under the radar is because they are not holding peoples' money hostage like most other vendors who announce too early. Multimorphic has self-funded everything thus far. PROPS FOR THAT! Aside from the fact that I'm one of the original orders, I couldn't be happier for Gerry and his official launch of Lexy. Gerry has been one of the (probably the single most) forthright pinball company owners in the industry. He has not taken money from people to fund their extensive development, he has been up front about their challenges, has acknowledged their prior missteps, has been realistic about upcoming time-frames, and is as genuine of a guy as there is in this industry.

Sure, their initial production numbers will seem meager, but recognize someone who did things the right way and allow them time to grow their business organically. We've all seen too many other cases where the sexy theme and the shady practices have resulted in despair. Let's allow the honest guy without the blockbuster theme and the empty promises to build his business the right way.

#258 1 year ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Are you in the first run cheeks? It's going to be fun to see these puppies get delivered.

I am. I've been in since the PVC "wireform" days, back when this was merely a tech demo. While I've never been concerned about my money with Gerry, I have been burned with other pre-orders (JPOP), so this is my last ever pre-order.

#261 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

I have been pondering a mod as well that would swing the outlane adjustment posts based on software difficulty setting (stepper motor or servo and gearing involved) so you could be playing 2 players easy and hard and between balls it could adjust the posts for the next player.. no idea how feasible but damn it would be cool esp in homes

This was something I pitched to Gerry a couple years ago. Understanding that they didn't really want to increase scope with new physical features (creating additional delays) he said this could be handled with software, which I guess at some level it can be. But I always thought the mobile outlanes would be a super cool skill-balancing feature. My wife and I play together, but we're on completely different skill levels. Anything that can be done to even up the matches would be awesome. I'd be 100% in on any outlane post mod!

1 week later
#267 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

I was bummed to see the production bump to sept but was kind of expecting it to come..

Is this referring to the first or second run? I have not heard anything about production timing in the last few weeks and I'm in the first run.

#270 1 year ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

I believe they are referring to the second run. In the last newsletter Gerry said the following (referring to the first run):

So, I would assume from that your game must be almost finished and ready to ship.

That was the last I heard, just checking whether the delay reference was supplanting this about first run, or was about the second. Thanks.

#274 1 year ago

Just a heads up that I confirmed with Gerry that run #1 is active and absolutely not delayed to September. That reference was indeed referring to run #2.

#277 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Would be nice for jjp to work some of that screen technoloogy into one of their games.

No chance! There is so much tech that went into the ball tracking needed to create the collision detection on that screen, nobody will (can?) do it. Plus the hurdles Gerry has had to jump over with people thinking P3 was "virtual pinball" was frustrating to say the least. Nobody else in the industry has the balls Gerry does to shift the paradigm this much.

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