So in the next week or so I should be picking up a used system with several games. I'm very excited! It needs a small amount of work and I have a preliminary question: How are these to work on vs traditional pins? I can see them being harder, but can also imagine them being easier.

Zitt you've mentioned several times that you think it's rude. Registered, got it. Now in addition to having your current opinion, try considering this other one: No one is trying to be rude. People are inquisitive. -I'M- inquisitive. I love seeing numbers. I would love to know many of the stats for many games and companies. I think it would be rude to -expect- that info from them, but not to inquire about it.

When I had my businesses people would occasionally ask me about different numbers (and recipes), and I was generally happy to share them. On the rare occasion I didn't want to tell them, I simply said that. And that was it. I didn't think they were rude. On the contrary, they seemed genuinely interested in my business. -I'M- genuinely interested in Multimorphic and other manufacturers. I'd love to sit down, pick their brains, ask them "Why do you do this? Why do you do that? How is that working out for you?" and then listen to their answers. If that's not you, that's OK. But that does describe some of us. Or at least me!

It's weird seeing this ongoing conversation about the value of the P3 system vs traditional pins. It's pretty simple:

-If you want multiple games on a single pin, the P3 system is a great value and is a better value than most other options. It's MADE for this.
-If you want only one game, it's going to be relatively expensive. It's just not what the P3 is really designed for. Like buying a PS5 so you can play a single title. You can do it, and it'll work great...but it's going to cost you.

Aright, I picked up a P3 system locally yesterday and have a few issues/questions. I spent a couple hours last night researching (more researching than playing) and only came up with a few answers. I'm pretty comfortable working on traditional pins, but this one has me pulling a little hair out.
-How do I find the default settings for having both top and bottom flippers triggered by one button? I created my profile and see I can set it there. Is that it? Is there not a "default for machine" setting?
-How accurate is the onscreen leveling? Mine jumps about .8 degrees constantly, even when everything is dead still. That makes accurately leveling a challenge. I tried using my traditional digital level but it was very different depending on where on the playfield I was measuring which was interesting. I assume the clear plastic playfield isn't 100% flat.

-This is the most important one: I have multiple games that are having VUK issues. I hear the coil firing, and sometimes I see a ball trying to make it up (90% of the way), sometimes it's in the machine and I see nothing. I pulled the playfields out a dozen times last night trying to troubleshoot. I've read everywhere that the alignment for these is adjustable, but other than for Weird Al (which I don't have) I don't see directions for this.

I've had some other issues that I'm still troubleshooting, but the above are the big ones right now. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Yeah, that's one of the several sites I scoured last night. For hours. That gave me some answers, but not the ones I still need!

Excellent info (all of it) - thanks!

I have CCR, Lexy, Cannon Lagoon, and Heist. The only VUK issue I seem to have now is on CL. On the left VUK the ball makes it half the time, the other half of the time it makes it 80% up. I cranked the power even though it works fine for the other modules (it was near max already) and didn't help. If it's an alignment issue, which I assume it is, I need to really look hard at the tube to understand what I can align. I hear:

but don't know what that means exactly. I've used nylon washers to shim other up post coil mounting brackets, but I'm not seeing something on this that is similar. Now that I know that's a real option, I'll look at it again (for the 18th time, haha). Also, the previous owner mentioned laying some blue tape on the "VUK tube stop", which there's already some on there now.

I do have other questions:
-The only way I can get Lexy to work is with 9 balls. If I use any more, I can hear (what I believe is) the "drain coil" firing over and over, with all of the balls stuck in that area and none in the VUK area or the tray in front of it. Any suggestions?
-Also on Lexy, the screen shows some distortion/static at times. Is this a fancy effect, or is something off? (see pics)

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As I'm doing more troubleshooting tonight, can someone tell me if it's ok to turn on the power to the machine with the upper playfield unplugged? There are tons of warnings about practically everything else, and I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere this was OK, but I don't feel like frying anything tonight.

While I'd already read a bunch on the P3 site, I've opened almost every link now in the support section. There is a LOT there, way more than any other manufacturer. Stunning!

Yeah, I was trying to calculate how far the ball would fly...or, more realistically, how hard it would it hit me in the face as I watched it...if I fired a VUK with the module out

Thanks

Check out https://www.multimorphic.com/support/projects/customer-support/wiki/VUK_Issues. The site looks sparse at first, but when you start digging there is a TON of excellent tech info there. I'm a new owner and am still getting my bearings, but this should point you in the right direction!

Are the default settings for anything indicated anywhere? Usually on a pin the default setting shows up as a different color onscreen, but I'm not seeing that anywhere on my P3. But I'm color blind - extra challenge!

Can someone confirm the styrofoam box inserts are the same for every module? Someone said "yes" in an earlier post, but mine are definitely NOT the same amongst my three boxes. Perhaps one of them got switched or something. If someone wants to be extra charitable and send a pic of what the inserts -should- look like, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Taken from https://www.multimorphic.com/support/projects/customer-support/wiki/VUK_Issues:

"For the issue of no balls being read by the sensors, pressure to the left most tube can be applied from either the left or right side while monitoring [Under Playfield] test in Diagnostics. "

Can someone explain how to do this with power still getting to the playfield? If you pull it "all the way out" and rest it on a table, the cords aren't long enough to still be plugged in. If you leave the playfield in service position one, I can't see a way to reach in to push on the tube. The instructions actually say to pull the wires off, so I don't know if it's an oversight or I'm not fully understanding directions. This has been known to happen from time to time

I've never had any of these issues on my shaker-equipped pins. On one hand, I'd think they'd cause more "wear and tear rattles", but on the other that hasn't been the case for me.

I've been having a bear of a time with VUKs and optos behaving erratically, and I finally figured out the semi-comical cause. I had about fifteen balls lined up in all the trough VUKs and many of the balls weren't showing up in diagnostics. This had happened many times before, causing random firings and jams md-game. Staring at them, something was clearly off. Staring at them super closely, I realized FIVE of the balls were small. Maybe 1" vs the standard 1 1/16" size. FIVE. I took them out, weighed them (65 grams vs 80 grams) and, replaced them with regular balls. Problem (so far) solved. Now I have to figure out where those balls came from, and if the other pins in my house are now randomly infected with them! I assume the person I bought the system from had some other pin projects going on an mixed the balls up.

Anyone know what a 65 gram, slightly smaller steel pinball would actually be used for?
(edit: I've discovered several uses, including in much older machines and using them for tilt mechanisms in older pins)

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The previous owner was involved with a lot of older machines at one point and I think these might have been mixed in. Having said that, I haven't heard back from him so I'm not sure. It's the last think I'd ever consider even existing in my house, let alone causing severe problems. But if you have a 1/16" difference x5 balls in a trough with a bunch of optos, things go wrong quickly! And erratically. I'm super relieved to find the culprit.

On one hand, I'm super nervous about any electrical mods and don't like the idea of adding most of them. But despite all the talk of "mods void warranties" I'm pretty sure the manufacturer (in any industry) has to prove the mod caused an issue for them not to cover it. I'm not a lawyer and have no direct experience with this, so if someone HAS had direct experience I'm happy to hear about it.

I feel like this is my issue. It's working great! Now there's an issue. It's working great! Now there's an issue.
I'm hoping there will be a point where it's really, truly 100% all set. I understand there's always going to be occasional issues, but if they're every week that's...not optimum. Last night the upper quarter of my playfield wasn't detecting balls. I reseated some connectors that I guessed might have been causing the problem and now that's great. But then a standup on Lexy stopped working. So that's today's project.

I'm super glad to hear Al was 100% the entire show - that's pretty incredible!

I'M perplexed by SA

It's the farthest thing from my kind of theme, and I've even read the rules, so I'll have to give it another highly focused go.

murfe88, if you are indeed speaking of folded height YES it's taller than a Stern. Enough that Sterns fit in my Mazda van...but this did not. I discovered that the hard way. I don't know how to remove the head, and the seller had recommended I not do that. Maybe it's super easy, but like anything else with the P3 you know it won't be normal

If you do this, make 100% sure the glass is appropriate for a pin. The last time I tried ordering locally from a glass company, despite giving them exact dimensions and telling them what it was for, they tried selling me a thinner sheet that wasn't tempered and would have shattered into a million pieces on first impact. Speaking of...

A) That sucks, sorry about that.
B) Make 101% sure every single piece of glass gets removed. I've seen pins owned by casual owners that had absolutely sanded playfields because they also broke their playfield glass, and just did a quick vacuum. The trace remains worked like sandpaper for...ten years. This was a NICE HUO pin...with a needlessly destroyed playfield.

Ok, honest answer time: How often is everyone adjusting/fixing the P3s? When I bought mine (used) I knew it needed some tweaking, but it's admittedly been more adjusting than I thought. Is this what's to be expected for P3 ownership? Or do many of you have units that will go hundreds of games between issues (like most modern pins I've owned)?

Me, after playing every add-on game:
"This stupid game is stupid...ok one more game."
"This stupid game is stupid...ok one more game."
"This stupid game is stupid...ok one more game."

It's almost like the games are so simple they shouldn't be good, and I shouldn't like them. But they are good, and I do like them. I like these "stupid, simple games" more on the 50th play than on the 5th. So, yeah. I understand why many pinball enthusiasts take -one- look at a P3 game and passes. It takes more than "one look", despite it looking deceptively simple. And I feel snobby even typing this, but it's important I'm honest with myself!

Probably RITR (thanks!). The rest I like similarly, but RITR stands out a bit more. But I've also played it the most, and I have to play the others more to give them a fair chance. The only one I didn't like at all was Flipper Foxtrot.

If you're new to the club, check out the Multimorphic support site. It's phenomenal, and addresses this exact issue and many many more.

You're going to struggle doing it with two legs It can't be overstated how heavy it is.

If you're new to P3, keep in mind the only thing "keeping" the module in is those two small locking tabs between the module and the playfield. Look at it carefully and make sure when you unlock it they're sliding clear. If not, you may need to tap them a bit to get them to release. SantaEatsCheese's solution is similar but different. Also, in general the playfield should slide in and out pretty easily. If it doesn't check with Multimorphic - a slight adjustment may need to be made!

If you haven't fixed this issue yet, try this: Shut off the machine and manually move the flipper all the way up. Does it move 100% smoothly, especially at full rotation? Mine was binding. I had to disassemble it to and file down part of the flipper bat that was rubbing on the metal mounting bracket. Now it's 100%.

Get it home. Set it up. Play it for a month. Forget those scratches even exist.

If this doesn't work, and it still bothers you, then do what you gotta do. More often than not most issues like this become invisible by ball two for me.

It is definitely not pulled back enough. That metal loop on the right needs to be pulled far enough back so that it's 100% clear of the metal tab on the module.

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Try pushing down on the playfield module in that area while you're trying to unlatch it. Assuming other playfields don't have this problem (if you've had a chance to try them yet), it's likely the Weird Al playfield is a little bit "off" and is causing upward pressure. Or, there's something else binding in the latch assembly. I believe SantaEatsCheese and Jay_Killjoy had similar problems recently (see previous comments).

I thought Weird Al would be the be all, end all game for me on the P3. Nope. It's been Heist.

Now I understand you may have heard something I haven't, but it -should- be 100% fine to move the balls from the line of VUKs into the trough and then install a module. They'll be out of the way, and will load up once you turn it back on. Taking them out of the machine each time you remove a module sounds...man, it sounds like a lot of work!

I understand lots of people do this, but I've had 99% percent of my problems fixed (with a half dozen manufacturers) by contacting them directly. I never bother involving an extra party unless it's necessary - which happened once when Stern specifically requested it.

I have no response to this, just that I think this is a fantastic phrase.

On the Weird Al side, yeah, I gave up after many many back and forths. Like you, dream theme. Like you, many unbelievable issues. I love the idea, and I can appreciate the engineering, but ultimately the end experience has to be positive. Unfortunately this isn't/wasn't the case for us and many others.

If I remember correctly mine could backhand ramps at standard power. Super duper easy and smooth. You might want to check to make sure the ball paths are 100% smooth and the module is totally flush to the main playfield.

Proceed with caution! Every pin I've ever moved fit in my Mazda5....except my P3. It was too tall.

No, rented a freaking UHaul on the spot. In the rain. Like a bad pinball sitcom. I'd barely touched a P3 before that day and didn't want to hope for a smooth first time head removal.

And I think the music and callouts make it one of the most immersive games out there. It just goes to show how differently we can all feel about the exact same thing!

Do you (or anyone) have pics of wear of any playfield surfaces? Gerry had said a while back the reason the playfield surfaces were "only stickers" was that the upper playfield area doesn't see much wear therefore it would hold up. That sounded reasonable to me and -I- haven't seen any wear on a playfield yet.

It's interesting to see the "dirt", which would be unlikely on a clearcoated pf. I guess as the playfields get more advanced (like Weird Al) they'll get possibly more ball action and will need some tweaks going forward like Mylar in areas like that. It's interesting to see it all evolve.

It was a fun game with an excellent Wow Factor with the ball locks, sound, and lightshow. But the gameplay got old fast for me. As others have said, the other games available for the playfield make it worth it, otherwise I'd pass.