(Topic ID: 124923)

Multi-player EM drop target banks that reset?


By o-din

4 years ago



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  • 97 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by o-din
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There are 97 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

All the games I am familiar with from the 60s, single and multiplayer, had drop targets that could reset before the ball was over so you could knock them down again. But it seems as the 70s arrived and more and more games used drop targets, the curse of many multiplayers was they would not reset until the ball was over making them very one dimensional and once you had knocked them all down there was not much else to do.

Bally was late to the game with drop targets, however the first one they made which I have-Air Aces in 1975 has a bank of nine drop targets that will reset when you knock them all down and makes for great gameplay. I also have Williams Grand Prix and although they are banks of one, they will also reset after you knock them down in pairs. I have also had a couple of games where they did not reset and they went down the road.

I think Bally kept going with the re-setable bank, but I was wondering if there are other multiplayer games that have this feature. A friend of mine tells me he has a Surf Champ he could bring me, but I haven't played one or researched it enough to know if they do indeed reset.

#2 4 years ago

Quick/Fast Draw (center target only, but worth 5k!) for one.

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Quick/Fast Draw (center target only, but worth 5k!) for one.

So the center target will reset? cool. Does it reset again after you knock it down?

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

So the center target will reset? cool. Does it reset again after you knock it down?

Yes. Both banks reset and then on both banks, the cowboys are knocked down leaving the two horse shoes standing.

#5 4 years ago

Sounds like a great game! I have never played one. Any others?

#6 4 years ago

Ya, it's what makes the game super fun and special.

#7 4 years ago

The only Gottlieb multiplayer EM I can think of that doesn't reset the bank is Royal Flush / Card Wiz. Which is why I hate it. (Yes, I know that the guy in France has a mod to reset them.) What others are there that don't? Everything I can think of does. (Other than the super rare Joker Poker EM).

For many single players, they didn' reset since the target bank(s) actually served as the trip bank for any sequence features.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sounds like a great game! I have never played one. Any others?

Jacks Open is the only other EM game I can think of with the knock down bar to set up a different arrangement other than a full reset.

On pinball pool (a System 1 which many believe to be glorified EMs), and other SS Gottliebs they introduced the Robo Targets as some called them where hitting a target on one side knocks down the associated target on the other bank.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The only Gottlieb multiplayer EM I can think of that doesn't reset the bank is Royal Flush / Card Wiz.

You mentioned Joker Poker. That is one I had the other was Solar City. I believe all the multiplayer versions of El Dorado didn't reset.

#10 4 years ago

Reason I am asking is it now seems the multiplayers are getting the most play around here. The single players not so much. We like to compete. So with that said I am now only really looking at bringing in multiplayers, but I want the better ones if possible. Surf Champ looks like a cool game, but it sounds like Quick Draw or Fast Draw may be the way to go.

#11 4 years ago

QD/FD is fun dude! Economical as well for the most part. They made several of them. I think both a FD and a Surf Champ are in order.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

I think both a FD and a Surf Champ are in order.

Rat makes the most sense of all. Get both. But first things first. I need to free up some money and space. I'm guessing they do reset on Surf Champ?

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm guessing they do reset on Surf Champ?

I wish I could remember. I last played it at a party almost 2 years ago.

#14 4 years ago

Crescendo bank resets, and you get 500 points for clearing it, but good f'ing luck getting them all down...

#15 4 years ago

Fast Draw is a good one.
Jumping Jack/Jack in the Box resets and you have lower and upper flippers.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Crescendo bank resets, and you get 500 points for clearing it, but good f'ing luck getting them all down...

Two inch flippers to boot. Now yer talkin'

#17 4 years ago

Williams '77 Big Deal, knock down BIG or DEAL - lights star 1, knock down BIG or DEAL again - lights star 2, knock down all 9 - lights extra ball, knock em down again - get extra ball (or make the shot, which is a hard one)
Good fun multiplayer, puts the pressure on (everyone wants an extra ball while competing !)
Cheers

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

I wish I could remember. I last played it at a party almost 2 years ago.

They do.

#19 4 years ago

Solar City was actually fine with the setup it had. Knocking down all 15 in one ball was a challenge in itself. Joker Poker is just fun to play. Hard to beat the layout and artwork on this one. A pinball masterpiece. Resets on the solid state version took it to another level.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The only Gottlieb multiplayer EM I can think of that doesn't reset the bank is Royal Flush / Card Wiz. Which is why I hate it. (Yes, I know that the guy in France has a mod to reset them.) What others are there that don't? Everything I can think of does.

'73 Big/Hot Shot. Get the drops down and they stay down, very little to do after that.

#21 4 years ago

Yes, Surf Champ's drops reset when all drops are down and all 5 roll overs are hit. It's a tough goal on one ball, so it's very satisfying to hear that bank reset. Hitting the top drop (only one you can't hit directly with the right flipper so it's commonly the last standing) with a backhanded left flipper shot is a cool move, along with getting a slow archer that hits all the roll overs (luck needed)...then the lights all go out, and POP, everything resets and lights. And it has a spinner!

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Solar City was actually fine with the setup it had. Knocking sown all 15 in one ball was a challenge in itself. Joker Poker is just fun to play. Hard to beat the layout and artwork on this one. A pinball masterpiece. Resets on the solid state version took it to another level.

I think you make a good point, and actually, as a newbie, I have a sincere question for you guys:

Often I'll hear EM veterans bemoaning the fact that many multi-player EMs reset the scoring after each ball, thus causing you to have to essentially "play the same ball" over and over again and that once you DO accomplish everything (knocking down all the targets in Solar City or Target Alpha, for instance) the game can become boring because you're doing the same thing again on the next ball. Yet, as O-din says, sometimes what you have to try to do in ONE ball is very, very challenging (knocking down 15 drop targets in one ball, for instance).

So which is preferred? It seems like I hear that players want challenging games but would think that in some ways the multi-player games that reset each ball are more challenging. On the other hand, I get that a game that doesn't reset playfield features each ball enables you to work towards the goal probably more strategically, but also would think in some ways that's easier because you have multiple balls to achieve the goal. Just curious the thinking behind what seems a blanket determination that the single-player games that don't reset playfield features are preferred, when I also hear people say they want really challenging games. Just an honest question as I learn the history of this hobby and the viewpoints. Thanks!

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Boatcat:

'73 Big/Hot Shot. Get the drops down and they stay down, very little to do after that.

When Gottlieb remade it as SS Pinball Pool, they also stay down, but you can reset them during the ball by getting in the upper kickout holes, which scores the bonus and resets the drops, and also leaves the bonus multiplier where it is. If you can keep the ball going long enough you can rack up some points that way.

They also used that "remotrip" on it, which drops the corresponding target on the other side. I don't like that feature and I disabled it on my game.

#24 4 years ago

I believe Pioneer/Spirit of '76 drop targets stay down until something else on the playfield is completed, like getting the ball in the kick-out hole? Always thought it was somewhat unusual that as much as 60K could be recorded on this one by getting the ball into the kick-out hole when lit for it.

#25 4 years ago

70' multiplayers Gottlieb games :

Big Indian / Big Brave
Charlie's Angels
Close Encounters
Fast Draw / Quick Draw
Gemini
Jack in the Box / Jumping Jack
Sheriff / Lawman
Solar Ride
Space Walk
Surf Champ / Surfer
Vulcan / Fire Queen

----------------------------------------------------

Wanted : Dead or Alive - In any condition
Gottlieb SPACE WALK
You find, you win : REWARD USD 500

http://www.facebook.com/kangourou.flipper?fref=ts

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The only Gottlieb multiplayer EM I can think of that doesn't reset the bank is Royal Flush / Card Wiz. Which is why I hate it. (Yes, I know that the guy in France has a mod to reset them.) What others are there that don't? Everything I can think of does. (Other than the super rare Joker Poker EM).
For many single players, they didn' reset since the target bank(s) actually served as the trip bank for any sequence features.

I hated this game too, but with my conversion, it is a another game !!!!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/royal-flush-obtain-target-reset-during-play

https://www.youtube.com/embed/egmTUiu0dgw?autoplay=1&rel=0

Modif RF.jpg

Here is the conversion for a Canada Dry / Target Alpha :

http://www.flipjuke.fr/canada-dry-les-cibles-remontent-enfin-autre-solution-t43178.html

----------------------------------------------------

Wanted : Dead or Alive - In any condition
Gottlieb SPACE WALK
You find, you win : REWARD USD 500

http://www.facebook.com/kangourou.flipper?fref=ts

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from kangourou:

I hated this game too, but with my conversion, it is a another game !!!!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/royal-flush-obtain-target-reset-during-play
Here is the conversion for a Target Alpha :
http://www.flipjuke.fr/canada-dry-les-cibles-remontent-enfin-autre-solution-t43178.html
----------------------------------------------------
Wanted : Dead or Alive - In any condition
Gottlieb SPACE WALK
You find, you win : REWARD USD 500
http://www.facebook.com/kangourou.flipper?fref=ts

Those schematic presentations are so well done Andrew

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The only Gottlieb multiplayer EM I can think of that doesn't reset the bank is Royal Flush / Card Wiz. Which is why I hate it. (Yes, I know that the guy in France has a mod to reset them.) What others are there that don't? Everything I can think of does.

Well, once all the drops are down, the center standup behind the bank lights for 3,000 a hit. So at least there IS something to shoot for. Target Alpha, OTOH, all the drops stay down and there isn't anything to shoot for. You might get the replay or EB but you aren't really 'shooting' for those. Yes there are 15 targets on TA, but it's not all that hard to get all 15 on one ball. When you do, you're just getting 10 points until you drain so then you can collect your bonus. Jungle Princess/Jungle Queen is this way too.

I can't think of too many multiplayer GTB games where the banks reset mid-ball other than QD/ FD and that's just the center drop on each bank.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Reason I am asking is it now seems the multiplayers are getting the most play around here. The single players not so much. We like to compete. So with that said I am now only really looking at bringing in multiplayers, but I want the better ones if possible. Surf Champ looks like a cool game, but it sounds like Quick Draw or Fast Draw may be the way to go.

O-Din

I've had both Quick Draw and Jack in the Box (which resets all 10 drops when the last one standing is hit). They are both excellent games. I think Quick Draw offers a bit more 'strategy' and alternative play styles (upper and lower sections to go for) but the bottom pops on JITB are super fun and make for some great save opportunities. Also, on JITB you can 'operator' adjust the mid-ball drop target award to favor Free Game or Shoot Again.

Got rid of my JITB a long time ago and missed it. Just sold my QD to make room/$$ for a Williams Pitch & Bat game which is another game that is fun for parties (only kind of fun as a single player).

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

I think you make a good point, and actually, as a newbie, I have a sincere question for you guys:
Often I'll hear EM veterans bemoaning the fact that many multi-player EMs reset the scoring after each ball, thus causing you to have to essentially "play the same ball" over and over again and that once you DO accomplish everything (knocking down all the targets in Solar City or Target Alpha, for instance) the game can become boring because you're doing the same thing again on the next ball. Yet, as O-din says, sometimes what you have to try to do in ONE ball is very, very challenging (knocking down 15 drop targets in one ball, for instance).
So which is preferred? It seems like I hear that players want challenging games but would think that in some ways the multi-player games that reset each ball are more challenging. On the other hand, I get that a game that doesn't reset playfield features each ball enables you to work towards the goal probably more strategically, but also would think in some ways that's easier because you have multiple balls to achieve the goal. Just curious the thinking behind what seems a blanket determination that the single-player games that don't reset playfield features are preferred, when I also hear people say they want really challenging games. Just an honest question as I learn the history of this hobby and the viewpoints. Thanks!

i prefer single players for a few reasons...

- i prefer games with "game long" objectives...
- i'm not a huge fan of "bonus scoring"... imo, it unbalances the score... i prefer games that you do all your scoring while the ball is in play...
- i do not like to "play ball, wait, play ball, wait"...

i find the great majority of multi-player games to be "less challenging"... while you do only get a single ball to accomplish whatever objective there might be, the objectives on single player games are "harder"...

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

i'm not a huge fan of "bonus scoring"... imo, it unbalances the score... i prefer games that you do all your scoring while the ball is in play...

You.....did? Unless you tilted out, or it's one of those moronic games that only awards bonus on an outlane or something.

Quoted from ccotenj:

i do not like to "play ball, wait, play ball, wait".

That makes a lot more sense. Some bonus countdowns on EM's and early solid state Sterns are painfully long.

*edit* And new Stern WWE is too for that matter...you should see a full bonus countdown. It's 24.5 million which is HUGE and also takes about 90 seconds? It's insane.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

That makes a lot more sense. Some bonus countdowns on EM's and early solid state Sterns are painfully long.

Oh but what a hoot when you thought there was no way in hell you were going to beat another player, until the l-o-n-g double bonus scoring finishes, and you win by a mere 420 points!

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Oh but what a hoot when you thought there was no way in hell you were going to beat another player, until the l-o-n-g double bonus scoring finishes, and you win by a mere 420 points!

Have been the benefactor and victim of this enough times to know the joy and pain of it...

We use Gottlieb Cleopatra EM around here quite a bit for tourneys. 15k bonus every ball is absolutely make-or-break. If you double it every ball, you win.

#34 4 years ago

I got the call last night that Surf Champ will be dropped off on Wednesday. It comes from my very good friend that brought me Rocket and Trade Winds. I have not seen it but he says it is very nice and I believe him. He is giving it to me at a good price and I agreed to fix his Williams Grand Prix because of that. I do like a challenge.

#35 4 years ago

Surf Champ, Surf Side, Trade Winds You need a Bally Surfer and a Williams Jungle and your brain will be like this picture.

_Apocalypse-Surf-1.jpg
#36 4 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

Surf Champ, Surf Side, Trade Winds You need a Bally Surfer and a Williams Jungle and your brain will be like this picture.

We're gettin' there. One game at a time. "Charlie don't surf!"

#38 4 years ago

The 10 targets on Night Rider reset.

#39 4 years ago

Way to go odin. That game seems to be the flavor of the month as of late.

Somehow, I think you guys in Southern Cal. can relate to that theme better than us Mid westerners.......

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from hoov:

Somehow, I think you guys in Southern Cal. can relate to that theme better than us Mid westerners.......

It's about as close as I get to surfing anymore. I'm waiting for the big one to hit to move the beach a little closer to my front door.

#41 4 years ago

Gottlieb: Out of Sight and Far Out...
The targets stay down when set is cleared but the value per target 50-500-5000 changes so with a good shot pick off the 5k drop then hit a pop bumper or the star rollover to to advance the lights for target value. Once all 10 are down 2x on bonus lights.

Bally Night Rider EM:
clear the left or right bank or both banks, depending on setting, reset and 5k awarded, plus extra ball lanes light up, and special lights awarded for the next completion of drops.

#43 4 years ago

It looks like I didn't end up with a Surf Champ after all. That's OK, 8 less score reels to overhaul. My friend doesn't always know what he has, but he drives in from Arizona and drops them off so I'm not complaining.
I fixed a few issues on his Grand Prix in no time and he went on his way, but this one has been sitting for over 20 years so it might take some time. The cabinet is a little rough, but again, I'm not complaning.
DSCN3486.JPG
DSCN3488.JPG
DSCN3487.JPG

#44 4 years ago

Low plays, less score reels, nothing to complain about there! Good score!

#45 4 years ago

I had compared the two and I really wanted a Surfer anyway. The guy jumping off the surfboard is epic. There is some peeling on the backglass that was taped, but the colors are magnificent. The art package really appeals to me on this one. It's going to be fun to play I can tell, and those drop targets will reset when I am done with it.

#46 4 years ago

Nice score odin!

#47 4 years ago

Thanks guys! All this pinball stuff is making me hungry.

Man cannot live on the silver ball alone.
DSCN3490.JPG

#48 4 years ago

See, meals like that are what would make living in that little camper worthwhile.

#49 4 years ago

You should see the new guest quarters.
guesthouse.jpeg

#50 4 years ago

Dude! That's awesome! I am so glad you got the 2 player instead of the 4 player! The playfield looks great! I can't wait to play it with you and Bob the next time I am over!

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