Hope there are more and more people who are waking up to this realization.

He got no special treatment. He was stripped of his title during his peak years.

He stood by his convictions and suffered the consequences.

And so it begins:

ebay.com link: Muhammad Ali Pinball Machine By Stern 1974 Works Great In Good Condition

Seller is asking $4k and wrong head color , wrong DOM and who knows if it really is in working order.

I should put my restored one out there and see what it could bring...

Non Veterans are the ones that "Don't get it".

From one veteran to another- God bless you too!

This nonsense happens for a month after someone dies - like Evel K, or a movie comes out , like t3. In reality this doesn't affect prices at all and the hype will die down quickly. We live in a very fast paced news cycle world these days.

The idea that someone will suddenly want a Ali pinball machine today - when they could have bought one any time in the last 35 years - just because he died Is pretty specious. Not gonna happen.

Yes we are all here to talk about pinball but let's face it, Ali was a towering figure who affected ALL of us - even the haters have to acknowledge that. From the passion on display it's pretty clear.

There are very few people left who can arouse this kind of fire and there are fewer every day. I mean really...who is gonna care when Bill Clinton or George W kicks the bucket?

RIP Muhammad Ali!!!!!

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1) Regarding the lazy mods dozing off: We have not been completely inactive - can you guess in which thread were the last 5 moderated posts? (Hint: see image below). If you find a post inappropriate, remember you can always report it. That may wake up a mod. Otherwise we would sleep all the time, right?

2) Regarding the whole thread being OT: Fair point / you are right. But Ali was (is) such a public figure we decided to keep the thread out of the basement, at least for now. To everyone: whatever your feelings are about Ali, please keep the discussion civil.

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When asked by a reporter why He didn't support the war in Vietnam, Ali said "no Vietnamese man ever called me a n---". I think the people who are critical of Ali and use the term draft dodger, besides clearly being angry old white dudes who want their country back, have no empathy for how it must have been growing up black during that time. The one thing that I would say critical of Ali was that he probably didn't treat Joe Frazier very fairly.

They died in vain. And we should all be mad about it so that it doesn't keep happening. This dying for their country attitude just perpetuates future generations of people dying in vain. Gulf of Tonkin never happened. WMD's never happened. Ok. I'm out.

Gotta love this one LOL...

To think Ali still had one more fight later this year. Such a shame he really should have quit after Manilla or at the very least after his 1978 Spinks fight...

How dare you say that.

Whatever your views on the Vietnam War, or war in general, are your opinions and you're entitled to them. But for you to insinuate that the men and women who died there died for nothing denigrates their memory.

If you want to continue to have this conversation, my inbox is open.

I dare say it and you can suck it. It does nothing of the sort, and I take exception to your silly view. It absolutely does not denigrate their memory. shame on you. your view is what gets people needlessly killed.

Do me a favor.

The next time you meet a Vietnam veteran, look him in the eye and say that. Tell him his friends died for nothing.

Let me know how that goes for you.

Don't F with Mudflaps

To all the men in military service, Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!!

Who do you think told me? I guess there are two types of vietnam veterans. And I said died in vain.

It's amazing to me that this thread is allowed to continue with all the political bullshit.

I'm only half drunk right about now, but I really think that whoever is flying this death trap would close this topic before I have too much to drink and really piss a lot of people off...Shit!!!!!Did I just type all this shit without misspelling any words? Shitt. I need another dad drink...

Though about this one for a while and I'm going to try to get things back on topic.

I really like Ali pinball because the theme is an oddity in pinball about a great athlete among the best in his sport. It just so happens it was designed by one of the greatest pinball legends ever to live. You may have heard of this man. His name is Harry Williams.

It bothers me that people think Hollywood movies are based on anything factual at all. They are dramatizations very loosely based on historical events. They mean nothing compared to real life.

I feel there is an entire generation of people that learned what happened in Nam by Apocalypse Now and learn what happened in the more recent war failures by watching American Sniper. It just makes me sick to my stomach. Hollywood is a money machine, nothing more.

One not-so-political statement I am left thinking about here. Before you judge Ali's life, think about the current state of professional sports where it's only slightly frowned upon to take performance enhancing drugs, slap women around, and run drugs in and out of the country. No one is making an uproar about the current professional sports soap opera on Pinside so just calm down and please let the man rest in peace with respect. Greatest boxer? possibly... Baddest-ass boxer- certainly!

You have issues. I suggest some self reflection.

Thread moving to the basement.

Thank you. This thread was starting to get WAY out of hand. The man is dead; pay your respects (or don't-do you) and let it go at that.

Meh, don't waste you breath on the ingrate.

I assumed he was posting from some foreign country, with little knowledge of the sacrifice of war. Turns out he's from California- same difference.

And you're from North Carolina. You didn't even understand my point. Geez, do you guys even read through a whole post before you shut down your mind?

This thread's too pretty for the basement!!!!

Sometimes we wish we were a seperate country.

Mid 80s I'm working at a gas station in south OC right off the freeway fixing cars. Good job but we had to work half day every other Saturday dealing with all the out of towners that are lost and have no idea where they are going.

It's about 11: 30 and I've already answered about 100 questions so I'm buried under the hood of a car in the middle bay trying to finish up and get out of there. Out of the corner of my eye I see this big dude who asks if he can use the head. Without looking I point and say straight thru that wall (it was on the other side of the wall, but you had to go around to get there).

So I'm back to work and out of the corner of my eye I see this dude walk right into the wall and bounce off. Now he's got my attention! I look up and he turns around and it is Ali. A spicoli look on my face and a I know that dude and he gives me a wink, a smile, and puts his hands into that slow mo boxing motion he was known for. Made my day! After he finished his business he came back and we chatted for a bit and he was on his way.

He may not be everybody's hero, but he was one of mine. And still is.

And who will ever forget this...

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Great story o-din. Thanks for sharing.

I'll never forget him. He was nice even to an asshole like me. He had an amazing sense of humor. You can't make this stuff up.

Someday I'll tell you about the time George Peppard stopped in.

That's an interesting story you told and really par for the way he interacted with the public.

Here's 12 minutes of B-Roll of him just walking around Miami in 1980 (I'm guessing this is a bit before the Holmes fight). It's kind of fascinating to watch...everybody...old cubans, kids, middle-aged people, elderly jewish and Italian women - every race and demographic you can think of...just flocking to him, and he gives every single one of them their own special moment. This isn't what made him important - that's all the social and sporting stuff of the 60s and early 70s - but it's still a sight to behold the magic that he cast over everybody even when the sun was setting on his career and his health. There's literally hundreds of people who were on that street that day who had a memory and a story of a lifetime. Multiply that by thousands of days Ali made that impression on people.

Like I said, all of the haters in this thread...even hardcores like Pinbaum...I bet if they spent 5 minutes in his presence he would have absolutely charmed their pants off.

The 5 minutes he took out of his day for me not only changed my mood for the day, but left a lifetime impression. He was in no hurry like he had to be somewhere else. I learned a lot that day.

He did what Batman couldn't.

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It's worth noting that this fight took place under a "red sun," rendering Superman in a super-power deficit.

So since Ali did not have any super powers either, that would make the fight equal for both opponents.

Thus Ali was better than Superman in a fair fight.

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Rocky was a good fighter but when he came along the heavyweight division was pretty bad, almost like Tyson in the 80s. I don't think there's anybody - besides a "computer that must have been built in Alabama" - who seriously thinks Rocky would have had a chance against Ali.

It's impossible to rate athletes of different eras against each other. Equipment and training is totally different as is the ability to scout opponents bringing in a totally different skill set from earlier times.

Does anyone think Babe Ruth would be a knock out baseball player in today's MLB? Not a chance...but that doesn't take a single thing away from how he dominated his own era in baseball.

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You never know. But today's athletes get suspended for banned substances and their records questioned. No body ever gave a shit that the Bambino drank during prohibition.

lowepg, that is a good point but not an apples to apples comparison to sports. You can have a pinball machine or video game or some tangible item and have it side by side with an item of today, that is not possible to do with athletes.

Of course it's a good point but in sports they settle it on the field. Pinside ratings are ultimately decided by the pinside staff.

Professional sports are all a scam anyway.

Whoever the Mob needs to win the fight, wins the fight.

Anyone who suffered through watching the heavyweight championship Klitchko vs Tyson Fury a few months ago knows it's all a pile of crap, no matter how gigantic and "talented" the fighters are:

I don't think that's true at all, especially in boxing. I can look at Ali, and I can look at Mike Tyson, and I can think about what those guys would be like in the ring together. I think Babe Ruth would kick ass in today's MLB - don't forget he'd have the same access to the same training/health/doctors/drugs as all of today's athletes. Tom Seaver and Sandy K would still be at the top of any rotation.

We can rate them against each other all we want - what we can't do is ever actually see them compete against each other because that's impossible. Ali would wipe the floor with any current heavyweight (which isn't saying much, the division is a mess). He was incredibly fast for a heavyweight with incomparable reflexes. His later years showed he also could take a punch. Any era, any fighter, Ali could have beaten any of them. A fight against Rocky Marciano actually would have been quite interesting, because we know Ali had trouble with unscientific stocky bruisers like Joe Frazier. But in his prime I really don't think Rocky would have had a chance. Ali was just too fast and too smart.

It's nice that Rocky was white and served in the army (thanks for that awesome history lesson Ogeist, you really know the fight game!) but he just didn't have the tools to compete with someone like Ali. The smartest thing he ever did was retire undefeated before he had to face guys like Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson, that's just something nobody ever does. The only other heavyweight champs to retire and never come back were Lennox Lewis and Gene Tunney, and neither were undefeated in their careers.

NYC Loves Muhammad Ali! View from my office all week:

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