I don't understand it either. I wasn't a fan of Ronald Reagan but when he died I kept my mouth shut and let people reminisce and reflect without dancing on his grave. Some people just can't help themselves. It's sad and small-minded, not bold and "unpolitically correct." People think behaving this way makes them seem edgy and smart, and it only makes them look petty and ignorant.

I have enough sense to not live in a Liberal City where people piss & shit on the sidewalks without getting arrested.

Explain to me how he was so great. He was a great fighter. He fought to make money. Besides that, what did he do that was so great. I don't know much about him except for what I saw in the Will Smith movie but in the movies he hated white people and kept company with some of the most racist blacks and Muslims there were at the time.

those people are just sad weak people if they can comment negative remarks following and death and then spit on the grave with their opinions . This website is not just about pinball as a hobby but it is for people to show their true colors as racists and asshole opinions . More I read the more I can't be part of this 'club' and I've been a pinball enthusiast for well over 30 years, and ran 7 arcades in the 80s. All I remember was fun , laughing , and a great time standing by machines. This place is a cesspool of negativity and it's very sad indeed , using a website for pinball machines to spew hate

Friggin spelling police.

One trait of a great man is the ability to change and grow. He certainly didn't hate white people
And the older he got the more he loved everyone. You of all people should know better than to judge someone soley by what they said or did when they were 23 years old. What would 48-year old upstanding citizen brokenvette say to 23-year old drunk-ass, stoned brokenvette?

But for sure, it's totally subjective what makes someone great. I think in Ali's case it's that he gave a voice to millions and millions of people, and inspired millions and millions of people. Someone who truely changed the world and was a hero - in the social sense, not just sporting - to millions of people around the globe. Totally up to you to decide what makes someone great of course.

I wish i could thumb you up more than once , because you Sir speak the truth. Levi is an English teacher and that is all he knows.

I bet you wish you could thumb him up repeatedly. Not surprised. Pretty hot though.

He publicly refused to obey the draft.

He was America's first rapper.

He fathered 9 children.

He spoke out against Donald Trump.

He got a pinball machine made with his name and likeness.

He was the greatest.

Levi is the only sensible and intelligent person on this thread

Ha ha !!!!!!

I find it humorous that "religious conviction" translates to couldn't be drafted but he could beat men senseless for a living.

Regardless, an icon, truly great boxer and entertainer has passed. I like how he used his celebrity to focus people on issues of the time. If he changed one persons mind to become a better human being because of something he said or did, I applaud him.

hawkmoon - Thank you for serving. That had to be difficult.

"His religion forbids him from fighting" is a funny thing to say about a boxer. I think you realize there is a lot more to it than that though.

JEFFPINS12 maybe you should donate to Pinside before running off your cocksucker.

Lol

Yeah that'll get the mods on your side! Well played.

Hey, leave me out of the argument. I just asked. I really know nothing about the man besides the movie so I can make no judgments.

Levi is a good guy. We have had our disagreements and he does love to screw with people but I have grown to like him and believe that he means no harm or foul to anyone. I wish I could spell and punctuate as well as he can.

Who really give a Rats Ass?

Wow... amazing amount of douchbag comments from people in a thread the DAY the guy dies....

Mods must have dozed off a bit as several folks should have been booted and the whole thread is OT to pinball (regardless of a tangential link to the machine).

btw- in my assessment of douchbaggery, I include the political rants (both sides) as well as the general lack of good taste.

I don't consider the guy a "hero", but today (and pinside!) is no place to debate it.

Not understanding why there is a public pissing match on this site and this thread. Disrespecting everyone who reads this. P.M. each other with your petty pissings.
RIP Muhammed Ali.

You really don't understand it?

You saw a pissing match you didn't like so you commented on it. I saw a bunch of bullshit I didn't like so I commented on it.

It's not rocket science bro.

I do not agree with Ali but I would never spit on anyone's grave. We all have options and my dad faught in Vietnam. He was never the same again. I honor the sacrifice he made. Shot at war and went back again. Some of these guys had no choice. They were not famous nor did they have a name that would get you out of this kind of stuff. They honor their country, and did what they were told. I can't say that I would agree with history and why were we were in that war in the first place. However, I will always honor the men and women who sacrificed their lives and those who returned for our freedom. The entertainment industry does not give me that. RIP Ali we didn't have to always agree, and that's ok. You made allot of changes in people and that's what matters. You were one heck of a fighter all the way to the end.

You mean like when you were calling people racists?

RIP ALI

A big thank you to your father and to any soldier. If I didn't get my point across earlier, I do have great respect for the people who serve. Most do it because it is what they believe in. They love their country and serve it. I will always tell them thank you shake their hand. I wish our government respected them as much.

He must be saving the word "Bigot". They always use those two words together

You got your point across. And you are right many choose to serve because they believe in it. Ali spoke for those who had no choice, and didn't have the resources (middle-class sympathetic doctors, college, rich parents) to stay out of the war. That's part of what made him a 60s icon. I'm glad I didn't have to make a choice like that when I was young. I have a feeling I would have spent the 1970s eating a lot of poutine.

Actually, he didn't claim that his adopted Muslim status exempted him. This is searchable. Just sayin'.

Pussy_(resized).png

So if you want to know what him so great, do a little 'google' search. There is a ton of information about all of the humanitarian work he has done the past 30 years.

I like the word racial or racialist or racialism.
a. An emphasis on race or racial considerations, as in determining policy or interpreting events.

b. Policy or practice based on racial considerations.

Not everything has to do with race and the constant screaming of racist or racism or bigot gets old.

That is fine but that would not tell me why many people here and elsewhere think he is a great person. I can think someone is a great person but that doesn't mean you do or will.

We are also looking back at history and saying what we would or would not do. It was, I'm sure, very different staring Vietnam and Korea in the face. It was a different mindset as well.

Maybe it's just a fuse!

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19791109&id=_lpOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=K_kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3417,3249783&hl=en

He offered to trade himself for the hostages.

LTG : )

ali_4_(resized).jpgali_3_(resized).jpgali_5_(resized).jpgali_8_(resized).jpgali_7_(resized).jpgali_6_(resized).jpgali_9_(resized).jpgali_2_(resized).jpgali_2_(resized).jpgI have an ALI machine that ive owned for better than 15 years. The backglass is signed by him and I have a COA.
I rebuilt it when I first got it.ali_(resized).jpg

ali_3_(resized).jpg

$10,000 by Christmas

In 1990 he went to Iraq and successfully negotiated directly with Sadaam Hussein for the release of 15 American hostages who were being used as human shields prior to the Gulf War.

No joke.

I know he had a big problem being asked to stand up for his country (over there) when his country wasn't standing up for him (here). There was a disproportionate amount of African Americans serving, yet in the US of A they couldn't eat in certain restaurants, use the same restrooms-water fountains etc. That is a whole lot to ask from someone givin that situation, imho.

I'm sure if the battle would have been for HIS country, he would have fought.

He just did not want to kill 2 million Vietnamese whom he had no quarrel with, just to save some US senator's investments in Nam.

My dad was WW2, but everyone that serves are the 'greatest' of their generation. Objectors have a place too. Keeps a good balance, imo.

I've met two of the guys who beat Ali, Norton and Spinks...but never the 'Greatest'.

This in itself is fucking impressive. I don't know if I could offer myself up as a hostage to rescue people I don't know. Of course I don't know the whole story but that is pretty heroic.

A truly great fighter? Yes. A controversial person? Yes. He has died. We all do. It's sad to see anyone die. This should be the end of the debate in a PINBALL forum. Wishful thinking I guess.

Yeah, that MLK was a real troublemaker, huh? Wanting equal protection under the law. The nerve of him and his people.

I'm guessing the only thing liberal about Hawkmoon is his use of the term Uppity when describing people of color.

Reading the many vitriolic and uninformed comments on this thread makes me sad.

Here's how Muhammad Ali wanted to be remembered, in his own words:

image_(resized).jpeg

Again, I strongly suggest the documentary "When we were kings." It's a great documentary, rated in every top ten all time documentary movie list I've ever seen. It puts you in 1974 with tons of archive footage that gives you a sense as to who Ali was. If anything, it's a entertaining tale masterfully told.

Ali was right to stick to his beliefs. Why should he fight for this government in a foreign land when at that time he didn't have equal rights in his own country because of his skin color?? Some people will never get it..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/5-stories-you-didnt-know-about-muhammad-ali_us_5752ef00e4b0eb20fa0e12e7

Five things about Ali.

Most interesting to me: he dumped his 1960 Olympic medal when he represented the USA in the Ohio River right after he was denied entry into a whites only restaurant, consistent with his belief that America at the time did not want blacks as citizens, only as soldiers. And he was willing to make enormous sacrifices, including a substantial length of his peak athletic career, including the heavyweight champion title itself (with enormous financial loss as well), including a cush rotation during Vietnam that would have made him a black poster boy for a highly questionable war (and therefore a participant in the hype process). But he didn't. I don't know if I could have done that.

Even the gesture of dumping his medal he kept secret for years. When finally public with his story, he was criticized as having made it up for attention.

One last thing. If you have the patience for a longer article, a GREAT read by Jerry Izenberg.

http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/06/former_heavyweight_champ_muhammad_ali_dies_the_gre.html

And this one by Dave Kindred, discussing the complicated picture that was Ali:
http://www.foxsports.com/boxing/story/muhammad-ali-dies-the-greatest-parkinson-s-disease-dave-kindred-060316

Both authors know their stuff and knew Ali well.