(Topic ID: 295561)

Mr. & Mrs. Pac-man switch/coil issues

By rockwell

2 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by frunch
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#1 2 years ago

I am troubleshooting some playfield issues. Mainly, I have some coil/switch/matrix issues. I think.

The symptoms I noticed right away are:

- Middle Thumper not firing (thumper switch registers)
- Left Thumper activates the left sling (thumper switch registers)
- Top left orbit saucer not firing in either direction (switch registers)
- Left outlane switch not registering
- I also get random "M" callouts
- Also the left and right drop target banks don't reset.

What I've looked at:
- Shorted the coils in question via the SDB transistors (an also by shorting the lugs), and they fire. I replaced a few transistors in case they were bad. No change.
- Checked continuity of gray/yellow wire across the switch column that seemed most effective. Continuity seems good to the MPU J2-3 pin.
- Repaired the wiring on left outlane/inlane because I think the switches were wired wrong. I will include a picture here of my fix. I don't think I ruined anything.
- Severed the caps on the bumpers and saucer rollover (same switch column)
- Verified all fuses unblown

So far no real changes.

The machine has an Alltek MPU, everything else looks old. I did replace the connectors on the SDB and replaced the C23 and C24 cap, as well as a new fuse. Will replace C26 when it arrives later this week.

Contemplating what to try next. Suggestions welcome! Cheers.

PXL_20210622_220122913 (resized).jpgPXL_20210622_220122913 (resized).jpg

#2 2 years ago

It sounds like you may have a few problems, so you may want to tackle them one at a time.

Have you while in switch test mode removed the connectors to the switch matrix pins in the back box and shorted the pins for each column and row to see if each switch is triggered? That will tell you whether your switch issues are board related or playfield related.

Also, did you just get the pin? Was it working fully before all this started? Did you do any work on it yourself?

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

It sounds like you may have a few problems, so you may want to tackle them one at a time.
Have you while in switch test mode removed the connectors to the switch matrix pins in the back box and shorted the pins for each column and row to see if each switch is triggered? That will tell you whether your switch issues are board related or playfield related.
Also, did you just get the pin? Was it working fully before all this started? Did you do any work on it yourself?

I haven't tried what you mentioned with the switch test. I can figure that out and give it a shot.

I just got the pin, and have only swapped out a couple of the displays that were causing problems. It had known issues, so I am trying to fix them up and get it working well before I tera it down to further clean, replace, restore stuff as needed.

#4 2 years ago

Since you have so many issues the first thing I would check is to make sure the Alltech is configured for the right game.
You say the switches register in self test, have you checked the displayed number against the list in the manual to make sure the correct switch is registering?
Double check the solenoid board connections.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Since you have so many issues the first thing I would check is to make sure the Alltech is configured for the right game.
You say the switches register in self test, have you checked the displayed number against the list in the manual to make sure the correct switch is registering?
Double check the solenoid board connections.

Thanks for the thoughts. I will confirm these things and report back this afternoon with my progress.

#6 2 years ago

Update: verified that the Alltek DIP game settings are correct. Also verified all switches in self test...all switches register with the appropriate number.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Also verified all switches in self test...all switches register with the appropriate number.

Did you do this by pressing the switches on the playfield or by shorting the pins on the board?

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Did you do this by pressing the switches on the playfield or by shorting the pins on the board?

By pressing switches on the playfield.

#9 2 years ago

So the left outlane switch registers in test mode but not in game?

As for the left thumper activating the sling, does it do this all the time or only when certain other switches are closed, like the drops?

#10 2 years ago

Thanks for the suggestions Nokoro . That is correct, the outlane was not registering in game but did in the switch test. I thought maybe there was too large of a gap in the switch that maybe the ball wasn't triggering, but no. The ball connects the switch.

I then cleared out the Alltek MPU and tried re-booting. I am now strangely unable to start a game. The credit button isn't registering, so I need to troubleshoot that. I feel like I might be missing something obvious, so I am going to try and start over with fresh eyes, as best I can.

After the MPU clear, I also get these fun display and lamp behaviors (see video links below).

Time for a drink

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3eroru45psx24l/PXL_20210624_013014338.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4c2qcdv4ba7jvvk/PXL_20210624_013115654.mp4?dl=0

#11 2 years ago

Unfortunately, that’s above my pay grade. But, I agree. Time for a drink.

I think BigAl56 is your best bet here.

#12 2 years ago

I'd recheck the connections on the SDU and also reseat the connectors on the MPU.

Are the female connectors on the MPU original? If so, they may need to be re-pinned if the previous board had battery leakage. That stuff creeps anywhere it can go

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I'd recheck the connections on the SDU and also reseat the connectors on the MPU.
Are the female connectors on the MPU original? If so, they may need to be re-pinned if the previous board had battery leakage. That stuff creeps anywhere it can go

I actually went ahead and replaced the male connectors on the SDB, so those should be good (no change in the issues after the new connectors). One of the connector plugs to the MPU looks new, the rest look old. That was going to be my next step, re-pinning those. On some of the problematic parts, I did check for continuity from the switch/coil back to the MPU connector and didn't find any issues.

I also have a new C23 cap that I will be putting onto the SDB when it shows up today or tomorrow. Not sure if that will change anything.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

On some of the problematic parts, I did check for continuity from the switch/coil back to the MPU connector and didn't find any issues.

That's good troubleshooting, but some of those connectors run between boards. Some connectors carry the data between the MPU and other boards. Occasionally I've seen weird problems due to bad/incomplete data signals that can lead to improper coils/lamps/displays and it all came back to connectors.

For example, the SDU has 4 data lines coming from the MPU to tell it which coils to fire. It's done in binary where 0 volts is "off" and is a binary "0" and 5v is "on" and is a binary "1". so it would look something like 0001 for coil 1, 0010 for coil 2, 0011 for coil 3, 0100 for coil 4 etc. If one of those 4 bits is stuck on or missing, it can lead to the wrong coil firing. For example, let's say the first (right-most) bit is missing (or not putting through the proper 5v) due to bad or broken connection between MPU and SDU. That means when it tries to fire coil 3 it reads 001*0* instead of 001*1* and in turn will fire coil 2 (0010). I hope this makes sense

There's similar systems in place for the MPU to tell each board what to do, including the lamp boards.

One other thing to check: the ground connection on the auxiliary lamp driver board tends to go bad. Might be worth your while to re-pin that connector (male and female sides).

It's surprising how many issues come down to connectors on these games, hopefully you'll find that's the fix here.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

That's good troubleshooting, but some of those connectors run between boards. Some connectors carry the data between the MPU and other boards. Occasionally I've seen weird problems due to bad/incomplete data signals that can lead to improper coils/lamps/displays and it all came back to connectors.
For example, the SDU has 4 data lines coming from the MPU to tell it which coils to fire. It's done in binary where 0 volts is "off" and is a binary "0" and 5v is "on" and is a binary "1". so it would look something like 0001 for coil 1, 0010 for coil 2, 0011 for coil 3, 0100 for coil 4 etc. If one of those 4 bits is stuck on or missing, it can lead to the wrong coil firing. For example, let's say the first (right-most) bit is missing (or not putting through the proper 5v) due to bad or broken connection between MPU and SDU. That means when it tries to fire coil 3 it reads 001*0* instead of 001*1* and in turn will fire coil 2 (0010). I hope this makes sense
There's similar systems in place for the MPU to tell each board what to do, including the lamp boards.
One other thing to check: the ground connection on the auxiliary lamp driver board tends to go bad. Might be worth your while to re-pin that connector (male and female sides).
It's surprising how many issues come down to connectors on these games, hopefully you'll find that's the fix here.

I appreciate the thoughtful reply, and yes...makes sense.

I will work my way through these connectors and we'll see if that helps If nothing else, at least I will be able to rule them out.

#16 2 years ago

Hmm, well another day another problem. I repinned the MPU connectors (confirmed correct per schematics), and am now only getting four flashes on the MPU. I unplugged all plugs but J4 on the MPU, still only get four flashes. Any thoughts what to check first?

#17 2 years ago

When you say four flashes, are you counting the initial flicker the LED makes?
It sounds like it's a PIA problem based on # of flashes, not sure why it would suddenly crop up though. You could try reseating the PIA chips or perhaps try swapping them (U10+U11) and see if that makes any difference. (Edit: this doesn't apply to Alltek, unfortunately)

Bonus edit: I grabbed an alltek board I just recalled getting a while back and it looks like the pia chips are at U2 & U6. Still, not sure if swapping/reseating/replacing them is going to fix it, but I think that might be the next step.

I don't know Alltek boards though, so I'm not sure how much of that info will apply...

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

When you say four flashes, are you counting the initial flicker the LED makes?
It sounds like it's a PIA problem based on # of flashes, not sure why it would suddenly crop up though. You could try reseating the PIA chips or perhaps try swapping them (U10+U11) and see if that makes any difference. (Edit: this doesn't apply to Alltek, unfortunately)
Bonus edit: I grabbed an alltek board I just recalled getting a while back and it looks like the pia chips are at U2 & U6. Still, not sure if swapping/reseating/replacing them is going to fix it, but I think that might be the next step.
I don't know Alltek boards though, so I'm not sure how much of that info will apply...

Yes, four flashes and including the initial flash. So...flash, pause, flash, flash, flash.

I can try reseating the PIA. I thought after I repinned the MPU connectors, I heard a tiny -pop- when I booted up, but there aren't any blown fuses or anything else I can identify on sight, but there might be a hidden issue someplace

#19 2 years ago

I know you said you verified the wiring to the connectors, but have you verified the pin positions for each wire as well? I've re-pinned female connectors and discovered afterwards I had several pins shifted one spot left or right (put one pin in the wrong slot, leading to the following pins also going to the wrong slots)...

If all the pins are indeed in the correct spots, maybe what happened was just a coincidence. First you had the weird behavior with the lamps etc, then this...perhaps the weird behavior was the first sign of a PIA on it's way out, now it's done.

If the wiring all checks out, I'd try swapping the PIAs and see if you get an additional flash out of the MPU (meaning the problem is likely following the chip, if the flash sequence for the alltek is the same as the bally 7-flash sequence)

Quoted from rockwell:

Yes, four flashes and including the initial flash. So...flash, pause, flash, flash, flash.

I think that actually means 3 flashes--the flicker shouldn't be counted. No 4th flash means a problem with one of the PIA chips (U10 on a bally/Stern board, not sure which it is on the alltek--either U2 or U6)...a proper boot will have a flicker, brief pause, then 7 flashes (again, that's how it would work on a bally/Stern MPU and I'm presuming the same for the alltek)...

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