(Topic ID: 21314)

Moved WCS not powering up

By Zzap

11 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Zzap
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 years ago

Hi all, I just bought my first pinball machine (a Bally World Cup Soccer), which was working fine when I picked it up, but after a 3 hour drive, seems to have some issues (damn!).

I plugged it in and turned it on, only to hear a pop, and no response from the machine. Lifting up the playfield I checked the fuse in the power supply (8A), and that had blown.

One thing I noticed was there were a couple of cut wires around the power supply (white and black) the white one was end down on the metal power supply, wondering if this shorted on the supply causing the blown fuse? (these have been taped up now, but may have been to do with a conversion from 110 to 240V?).

Using a 5A fuse in the power supply (all I had around), I powered it back up and there were a few more popping noises that concerned me, so I promptly turned it back off. Checking the power supply fuse again, it hadn't blown, so not sure where to go from here.

This is my first machine, so maybe some of the noises are normal, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for things I should check before I re power it back up so I don't fry any boards etc? (or myself!)

#2 11 years ago

What popping noises? We're they constant and did they keep going? Did it sound like electrical popping or maybe solenoids firing? Perhaps the game was looking for the balls? Based off just this it's hard to guess.

#3 11 years ago

Location might be helpful, because another local pinball enthusiast might be able to come check out the pin. I would recommend not turning the game back on until you sort out what the cut wires were to. Sometimes when you move a pin, you stick the power cord into the game. When you pull the cord back out, you have to be careful not to hook it on anything. Pictures of the cut wires would be very helpful. You can attach them to the post using the attachment buttons below.

#4 11 years ago

The first thing I would do is download the manual if you don't already have it. It's about halfway down the page.

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2811

Then go through and check all your fuses to see what's correct and what's not. Go to radio shack and pick up some of each and install the correct fuses. Once you've done that report back. Otherwise you risking bigger problems.

#5 11 years ago

Thanks for the responses guys, I'll head off and get a few of all the necessary fuses!

Here's a couple of photos of the cut wires, after tracing it around I've discovered they run from the power supply (they were cut out of those 2 clear joiners) over to the front left corner of the cabinet. They are thicker wires than many of the others, and are run in clear plastic tubing you can see in the second photo.

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#6 11 years ago

Oh, forgot to mention, the cut wires are the ones with the red tape on them in the first picture.

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from Zzap:

Oh, forgot to mention, the cut wires are the ones with the red tape on them in the first picture.

I think those cut wires are just for your bill accepter or such by your coin door. If the machine powered on before you took it home, those wires aren't the issue. Perhaps you can go up and answer the questions I posed in my last response to you.

#8 11 years ago

Thanks Mark, the pops were definitely electric (sort of a squeek at power up and then some pops), I assume some of these noises were from the speakers and the machine generally energizing? Didn't seem like solenoids firing, and wasn't constant.

How long would it normally take from switching on a WPC machine until something shows on the dmd?

#9 11 years ago

4-5 seconds

#10 11 years ago

maybe more like 2-3 secs

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from Zzap:

Thanks Mark, the pops were definitely electric (sort of a squeek at power up and then some pops), I assume some of these noises were from the speakers and the machine generally energizing? Didn't seem like solenoids firing, and wasn't constant.
How long would it normally take from switching on a WPC machine until something shows on the dmd?

If it pops once or twice I'd be Ok with that. If you fire up the machine and nothing is happening, check out the state of the LEDs on the CPU board on the lower left. There are three LEDs. In normal operation, the middle one will be flashing. This indicates that the CPU has booted up and is running. What are yours doing? If flashing then I'd suspect the video is the issue (video board, Dmd, fuses). If the CPU light is solid then that's the issue. Next step is to remove the ribbon cables from the CPU board and see if the machine boots with led lights flashing then. Please report back.

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Please report back.

Will do! I should have a chance to go through the above tests tomorrow night

#13 11 years ago

This is a very common problem. When someone moves a pin and it worked at point "A" but doesn't at point "B" 99% of the time its a simple fix. Checking all your connections and making sure you didnt miss one or on came loose during transport is the second step. The first is confirming all your fuses are correct. This is the first thing you do after buying any pin working or not. After these two steps you should reseat all of yout connections. We hear this same all the time after someone moves a pin and more often than not this fixes the problem. In the back of the manual you will find a drawing of each board with the connectors on the board. It will show what color wires go on each connector. Go through each board and check all the connectors are correct while reseating them(unplug and plug back in). F105- b/w/y/g/r etc. I've moved many pins and its easy to get something mixed up.

#14 11 years ago

Ok, been through all the fuses, nothing else blown, only one fuse (F902) was incorrect (5A instead of 3A) and that was replaced.

Looking at the power supply fuse again, it was only 32V rated instead of 250V, so that's now been replaced with a 5A SB fuse as per manual for foreign game (Australia here).

Just working through the connectors now, I have discovered some crappy fixes on J120 where the wires have been re-soldered directly to the pins. Also half of J121 is missing

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#15 11 years ago

Wires soldered directly to the pins is done more often than you would think. At some point that connector was toast. Either melted or dry rotted or just plain broken. In a perfect world you would replace all those connections before moving forward but I know your itching to play your pin. As bad as it is to do this to a board it shouldn't prevent you from playing. You should make a list of what you need to fix the connectors, make sure no two wires are touching, and finish reseating all you connectors. Then fire it up with the backbox door open. Watch the lights on the board and tell us what you get.

#16 11 years ago

Another note. Those missing or damaged connectors are going to mean some board work. At the very least removing the boards and replacing the suspect pins and reflowing the solder on the rest. Welcome to pin ownership. This is all typical stuff.

#17 11 years ago

Ok, fired it up, and 100% working!

Well, not 100%, a few lesser issues that I'll need to look at:
- Boot report mentioned "Check Switch F6"
- I ran through the lamps and there's a few blown

Other than that, got through a few games ok

#18 11 years ago

Looks like I'm going to have to hunt around to see how the GI is working with this hack. J121 is meant to have a lot more connections than it does, and J120 is meant to have a lot less...

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from Zzap:

Looks like I'm going to have to hunt around to see how the GI is working with this hack. J121 is meant to have a lot more connections than it does, and J120 is meant to have a lot less...

J120 and j121 are jumpered together. Typically one is for cabinet gi and the other backboard gi but that's not required. so yours had burnt pins on j121 so rather than replace them the guy soldered he wires directly to j120. If its working then it's no rush to fix it.

So how did you get the game to finally power up?

#20 11 years ago

The key things I did was replace the blown power supply fuse and reseat all connecters, that was pretty much it!

Thanks for helping a newbie through the process guys

From a bit of research, seems the F6 switch issue might be a simple fix of cleaning the opto on the flipper button.

#21 11 years ago

wow nice hack you found there.
congrats on getting the game working!

#22 11 years ago

Congrats, ZZap! And welcome to the madness...

#23 11 years ago

As a follow up to this a week on, the machine has been starting up ok around half the time, but on some occasions it is tripping the 10 amp circuit breaker on the power board I have it plugged into (similar to this one: http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_hpm-electresafe-power-centre-10-amp_38877.aspx?filter=categoryname--Power+Centres). It normally starts up ok on the second attempt (obviously resetting the circuit breaker).

It seems as though this happens more after a cold start, and after a bit of research I'm thinking it might be the thermistor in the power supply? The 5A slow blow fuse I replaced in the power supply isn't blowing at all, so that might also explain why the 8A fast blow fuse blew previously...

#24 11 years ago

Hey Zzap I had a similar issue with my Judge Dredd, also my 1st pin. Wires soldered to board a J120/121 and a 5v hack where wires were spliced from main transformer back to driver board in backbox. It was a mess. With the help of a local pinhead (thanks Alex) we ended up repininning the harnesses for J 120/121 I removed the board and had the headers at 120/121 replaced. To get rid of hack also had to have the bridge rectifier replaced and transistors Q53/54 if I remember. The board cost like $80 to have repaired and I got rid of all the hacks. I learned quite a bit repinning bundles and testing transistors with volt meter. Anyway, if I can do it, you sure can. Hope you get it running like it should, WCS is a title I would love to own one day. Good luck!

#25 11 years ago

Thanks toasterdog, repinning J120/J121 is pretty high on my priority list now

1 month later
#26 11 years ago

Finally got around to popping open the metal power box on my WCS today to see what may be up with the circuit breaker tripping (it has been tripping a lot less recently since I added a 15m extension cord to it).

I had done some research, and this article seemed to suggest that there may be something wrong with the thermistor causing a current surge on power on.

http://www.flippers.be/basics/101_sys11_house_fuse_trips.html

Opening the box I discovered there was no thermistor at all, so that would explain it! It looks like I should install one inline with that black cable coming out of the fuse holder at the bottom of the photo? (that leads to the switch).

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#27 11 years ago

Added in a thermistor and so far 2 clean boot ups!

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