(Topic ID: 315095)

Mousin Around switch matrix issue

By SilverUnicorn

1 year ago


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#1 1 year ago

Calling System 11 gurus! Mousin Around - Bally 1989 - seller stated it worked before moved - I believe them, they are honest. Anyway, it does this now. Many switch errors and weirdness.

There are 2 yellow wires in the back that are not attached. I think they go into the IDC connection on the back pa el, but I THINK that is for lights. I connected them together with no change.Clearly there’s a switch matrix issue, but how to troubleshoot?

Any ideas?

Chris

#2 1 year ago

Give the system 11 club thread a try too. There's a lot of knowledgeable and helpful Pinsider's there.

#3 1 year ago

Do you have the manual?

If yes, then look at the Switch Matrix grid in the manual and see if there is a common link with the switches in question.

#4 1 year ago

First I would verify exactly what wires are unattached and where they go. Then attach them. Confirm there are no other loose/missing or incorrectly connected wires/plugs.

Then I would mark all active switches in the matrix diagram (physically print out the matrix so you can mark them in front of you). This includes normally closed switches (ball trough or gates, exc.) Verify any ghosting switches. Look for similarities in both rows and columns. Are they all in one row or one column? Do they form a square or rectangle with a ghosting switch?

If a pattern is identified in a specific row or column you probably have a break in a wire/bad connection/cold solder joint/connector bad. You need to use your meter set on continuity test and probe the path for these switches. Verifying continuity.

If a pattern is identified as a square or rectangle you need to test the associated diodes of the switches in question (raise one leg of diode to be sure/ bad diode will read as a short). There are ways to isolate further but this will get you going.

If it was working before you moved the machine there is a high probability there is a loose connector on your rows or columns. Reseat connectors and confirm good mating.

#5 1 year ago

So based on the errors in the test report -

Switch 17 - Mouse "M"
Switch 32 - Enter mouse hole
Switch 41 - Trap 1 ball
Switch 47 - Enter left ramp
Switch 49 - Ball Diverter

Malfunction - check motor down
Malfunction - check diverter
Malfunction - Check Right trap

The Outhole is also not registering.

In looking at the switch matrix, it looks like the M, Outhole, Trap 1 Up/Down, Trap1 Ball, Diverter, and right flipper are all on the same row so it looks like there may be an issue there. Will have to read up on this.

Mousin Around switch matrix (resized).pngMousin Around switch matrix (resized).png
#6 1 year ago

You will see on the switch matrix that every individual switch has a corresponding row and column pin. For example, the outhole uses 1J8 pin 2 and 1J10 pin 9. In switch test, if you remove both of those connectors (1J8 and 1J10) and short the pins 1J8-2 and 1J10-9 with a jumper or short piece of wire, the switch should show a closure. If it does, the MPU board is good and you have a problem in the wiring from the connectors to the switch, or a bad switch itself. If it doesn't show a closure, then you have a problem on the MPU.

If on the MPU, try to see on the schematic if all of the bad switches go to the same chip. If so, that's probably needing to be replaced.

If wiring is suspect, make sure the switch is good by shorting the wires on the switch itself. If the switch is good, look for a wire which broke free from its solder joint. Switches are daisy chained in the same row and same column so a bad solder on one switch will take out all of the remaining switches down stream.

I find its helpful sometimes to start with the first switch and physically trace the wires to the next switch in the column and the next and so on until you have physically inspected all switches in the matrix. Usually you will find the problem, and its usually a double wire where one of the wires has broken free from its solder joint.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from sbmania:

You will see on the switch matrix that every individual switch has a corresponding row and column pin. For example, the outhole uses 1J8 pin 2 and 1J10 pin 9. In switch test, if you remove both of those connectors (1J8 and 1J10) and short the pins 1J8-2 and 1J10-9 with a jumper or short piece of wire, the switch should show a closure. If it does, the MPU board is good and you have a problem in the wiring from the connectors to the switch, or a bad switch itself. If it doesn't show a closure, then you have a problem on the MPU.
If on the MPU, try to see on the schematic if all of the bad switches go to the same chip. If so, that's probably needing to be replaced.
If wiring is suspect, make sure the switch is good by shorting the wires on the switch itself. If the switch is good, look for a wire which broke free from its solder joint. Switches are daisy chained in the same row and same column so a bad solder on one switch will take out all of the remaining switches down stream.
I find its helpful sometimes to start with the first switch and physically trace the wires to the next switch in the column and the next and so on until you have physically inspected all switches in the matrix. Usually you will find the problem, and its usually a double wire where one of the wires has broken free from its solder joint.

Thank you for the explanation. I will try to work on this tonight when I get home from work.

Chris

#8 1 year ago

Ok so it is NOT the MPU. Now the fun part of tracing wires. Wheeeeeee!

Chris

#9 1 year ago

First using the switch numbers rather than switch name, look on the matrix and see if you can associate the n/w switches to the same row(s) or column(s). That will give you an idea what color wire is bad.

If there does not seem to be a pattern to the outages, you might have multiple problems such as broken column/row wire + bad switch + broken individual wire. It will take some time to track down but you will find it all eventually!

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from sbmania:

First using the switch numbers rather than switch name, look on the matrix and see if you can associate the n/w switches to the same row(s) or column(s). That will give you an idea what color wire is bad.
If there does not seem to be a pattern to the outages, you might have multiple problems such as broken column/row wire + bad switch + broken individual wire. It will take some time to track down but you will find it all eventually!

Or if there is no pattern then it is much more likely there is a bad connection between the board and the row/column connector which is why I suggested focusing on the connectors as a starting point. Both the plug and the header of each.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Blake:

Or if there is no pattern then it is much more likely there is a bad connection between the board and the row/column connector which is why I suggested focusing on the connectors as a starting point. Both the plug and the header of each.

Good idea! Maybe trace some continuities from the header pin (with connector plugged in) to the first switch in each affected column/row and see if it is open.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from sbmania:

Good idea! Maybe trace some continuities from the header pin (with connector plugged in) to the first switch in each affected column/row and see if it is open.

Yup and give a good visual inspection of headers for cold solder joints/trace voids and of connectors for loose wires/corroded pins/bad crimps/connections.

#13 1 year ago

Inquiring minds want to know! What's the status on the fix SilverUnicorn?

#14 1 year ago

Definitely sounds like a broken wire at one of these switches, most likely at one of the working switches. Tug on the white/brown wires at each switch as they can look like they are soldered if broken right at the switch solder lug.

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#15 1 year ago
Quoted from sbmania:

Inquiring minds want to know! What's the status on the fix SilverUnicorn?

Nothing yet I broke a wire on the M target so I fixed that. We're still at the same point though. Gotta keep digging.

Chris

#16 1 year ago

Progress. Well, sort of.

Okay kids, I found this - The plug from the back of the playfield where the Jackpot and "Millions" lights are.

3 loose wires, but where do they go?!

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

3 loose wires, but where do they go?!

Yellow and red wires are lamp matrix, so I would imagine you can figure it out from the lamp sockets that have one or two wires missing and looking at the lamp matrix, which is in the manual.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yellow and red wires are lamp matrix, so I would imagine you can figure it out from the lamp sockets that have one or two wires missing and looking at the lamp matrix, which is in the manual.

Well poop. That wouldn't fix switch issues then?

Chris

#19 1 year ago

Switch matrix chart shows the switch column wires are green and the switch row wires are white.

So it is a separate issue. That is like asking if replacing a dead car battery is going to fix a flat tire.

#20 1 year ago

Makes sense, thanks. Any idea where these wires are supposed to go? LOL

Chris

#21 1 year ago

Is it possible the 2 yellow/brown wires connect together? What happens if you connect them? Any additional lights go on?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Makes sense, thanks. Any idea where these wires are supposed to go? LOL
Chris

I don't have any clearer photos right now, but looking through my tear down pics and the manual, these do indeed go to that connector.

The two Yellow-brown wires should be hooked together, and it looks like the go in the second to last slot of the IDC connector. This is the common connection for all the letters in "MILLION" so just double check that that pin on the light board goes to all of them.

The Yellow-violet wire only goes to the Jackpot light, and it looks like it goes in the very first slot.

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#23 1 year ago
Quoted from djblouw:

I don't have any clearer photos right now, but looking through my tear down pics and the manual, these do indeed go to that connector.
The two Yellow-brown wires should be hooked together, and it looks like the go in the second to last slot of the IDC connector. This is the common connection for all the letters in "MILLION" so just double check that that pin on the light board goes to all of them.
The Yellow-violet wire only goes to the Jackpot light, and it looks like it goes in the very first slot.
[quoted image]

This helps very much, thank you! Now do get an IDE punch tool.

Chris

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

This helps very much, thank you! Now to get an IDE punch tool.
Chris

#25 1 year ago

Regarding your switch issue, your WHT/Brown wire has lost its connections somewhere under the PF. I would use a jumper wire from the Wht/brn wire on a switch that works (the outhole or “T”?) and run it to the wht/brn wire on one that does not.
Then, go to test mode to see if it’s resolved.

If you have none working, run the jumper to the board where wht/brn connects and see if that works. If not, you could have a board issue.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Regarding your switch issue, your WHT/Brown wire has lost its connections somewhere under the PF. I would use a jumper wire from the Wht/brn wire on a switch that works (the outhole or “T”?) and run it to the wht/brn wire on one that does not.
Then, go to test mode to see if it’s resolved.
If you have none working, run the jumper to the board where wht/brn connects and see if that works. If not, you could have a board issue.

Thanks, I will give this a try once I can get back into the basement. I tore some ligaments in my knee yesterday, so steps are not so great right now

Chris

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Regarding your switch issue, your WHT/Brown wire has lost its connections somewhere under the PF. I would use a jumper wire from the Wht/brn wire on a switch that works (the outhole or “T”?) and run it to the wht/brn wire on one that does not.
Then, go to test mode to see if it’s resolved.
If you have none working, run the jumper to the board where wht/brn connects and see if that works. If not, you could have a board issue.

Hobbled down to the basement to try this. You are correct that when I jumpered the White/Brown wire from the working tilt bob to the M target, it registered in the switch test, Same with all the others. I did not find any disconnected wires. COuld it be a diode that's bad?

Unrelated but now I have lost all insert lights as well. Ugh!

Chris

#28 1 year ago

COuld it be a diode that's bad?

No, a wire is not connected. Look at the “loop” part of the wire where it connects to the MPU board… one side is probably broke.. one goes to cabinet, one goes to playfield. You could also just run a new wire from the board to the playfield and be done with it.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Unrelated but now I have lost all insert lights as well. Ugh!

You shorted lamp socket against something? If so, blew the insert lamp power fuse.

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