(Topic ID: 256720)

Motor Runs Continuously: Gottlieb King Pin by Though Switch


By redrock

9 days ago



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  • 18 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by redrock
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#1 9 days ago

(For those who might remember, I had the initial problem of the start sequence not completing. As I thought the A relay did in fact have the blades incorrect. I rebuilt all six switches per the schematic and all is good.)

So now the start sequence completes, the ball is ejected from the outhole and hits the though switch. The first ball count shows one -- all set to go -- but the motor doesn't stop. I can manually stop the motor by opening the 1A last switch or 6th switch and the motor will stop. All the many playfield switches connected to 1A are correctly open; a short with any of these switches (rollover, drop targets, etc.)would cause the problem but all are open.

The upsetting issue is I didn't have this problem before; it just started -- maybe as I moved the playfield up and down.

Any suggestions? Thanks for all the help so far.

#2 9 days ago

First thing I do is use a magnifying glass and inspect all switch bank solder connections on the motor unit
to insure none are crossed/shorted.

#3 8 days ago
Quoted from redrock:

the motor doesn't stop

If the motor keeps running, one or more of these 8 switches is closed. Which one(s)?

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#4 8 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the motor keeps running, one or more of these 8 switches is closed. Which one(s)?[quoted image]

ie inspect all 8 switches to start the journey

#5 8 days ago

Thanks for everybody's interest. All eight switches are OK; the issue deems to be the Hole (I) switch.

The playfield has always been up with the single support. To see the Hole Kickers and Hole Switches better I moved the playfield up on its railing and so-and-behold I see these two wires free that connect to the inside switch of the Hole relay. But the wiring on the schematic is not the same as the actual wiring. I know the colors fade but each switch has two connections (one for the Q relay and one for the I relay). The IPDB LOWER PICTURE doesn't show the bottom.

Is this a know problem: wires changed or the two hanging need to be re-soldered?

Extra Wire (resized).jpg
#6 8 days ago

The two hanging look like the scoring wire BR-WH-RED. The corresponding contact is OR-BLK. I think I see the orange-black wire in your picture. Sounds like you just need to carefully resolder that pair to the empty terminal.

#7 8 days ago

It's hard to see but I believe the hanging wires are Slate-White-Red. For the right and left switches all four terminals on each side have wires. The two hanging wires are soldered and looking at the schematic for the color and the lower area I see not empty terminals and no place that logically needs these wires.

This Slate-White-Red wire goes to six switches that all have the correct: W, S, E, (2) 1C, and 2B. It's hard to test for continuity because of all the cross-connections (with power off).

The motor stops when I separate Motor 1C 6th switch (outer). This switch controls the N/O switches on the playfield. I can't find any closed.

So now I have two issues: continuous motor and two hanging wires. It must be a shorted switch so I'm going to focus on the eight+I that power the motor; maybe unsolder each one-by-one, although I have put paper on each switch to ensure it is open to no avail.

Oh, well...

#8 7 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the motor keeps running, one or more of these 8 switches is closed. Which one(s)?

Quoted from redrock:

All eight switches are OK

I didn't ask whether the 8 switches are OK.

#9 7 days ago

I'm going to repeat the test (8 plus the I switch) and keep notes.

#10 7 days ago

Look at the switches while the motor is running. Which one(s) are closed?

#11 7 days ago

Changing the position of the playfield -- as noted above -- stopped the motor as normal! So, it either is a lose wire or a certain sequence caused the continuous run of the motor. So now it's on to scoring issues. It seems never-ending; I'm certainly happy to have a schematic but really would like a theory of operation. Not just the instruction manual, but a real analysis of how things work for this particular machine, not the general information available. There are these sequence control replay whose operations are not too clear to me.

I assume that there is no such thing. Thanks to all for your interest and suggestions. Great to have this resource.

#12 7 days ago
Quoted from redrock:

Changing the position of the playfield -- as noted above -- stopped the motor as normal! So, it either is a lose wire or a certain sequence caused the continuous run of the motor. So now it's on to scoring issues.

I suggest following the troubleshooting steps offered above or the problem will be back! Do not guess - troubleshoot.

#13 7 days ago
Quoted from redrock:

... really would like a theory of operation. Not just the instruction manual, but a real analysis of how things work for this particular machine, not the general information available ...

Would a phone call help?

#14 6 days ago

You should trace where those two wires are from. They maybe part of the issue. Can you take a picture of the target bank someone here might be able to spot which relay maybe missing the wires. You may wish to use a clip or a wire cap to keep them from shorting against anything metal.

Are any of the relays circled in HowardR's schematic snippet pulling while the motor is running? (A, B, C, E, O,S ,W). Post #3

If they are then I suspect you will have to trace that relay's circuit to see why it is pulling.

Note: Motor 1C will open when the motor in a "home" position.

#15 6 days ago

I agree that the motor run issue could reappear; if it happens again I will stop and investigate.

My two hanging wires (slate-white-red) seem to have a common purpose, so I'll build a map to see where these go and maybe discern what's missing. Stay tuned.

Probably not related but I see two switches in series that are connected to Drop Target Switches # 3 and 8 and no reference in the schematic; purpose? (Since it's unique to my machine maybe I should start a new post for this.)

#16 6 days ago

For someone smarter than me, I would like to add the following: There are six 10 pointers: 4 for the two rubber bounce switches, and two unknown. My note above discusses the two switches that are only available if the front targets are down. (These have to be the two missing 10 pointers.) The wiring doesn't make sense: they are solid orange and blue -- the kind that somebody would have added. Also when both are closed in series connecting to #3 and #8 make no sense because they are already connected to the hot feed (brown-white-red).

Could my two hanging wires have been connected to these two switches? And why are they not on the schematic?

#17 6 days ago

A 10 second question with PinRescue verified my machine is miswired and these two switches are the last 10 pointers!!! Let's see what happens.

#18 6 days ago

I am sorry to have bothered you guys; it's just me not knowing what I'm doing and jumping to the form much to soon. It won't happen again.

The two switches are wired correctly. The two hanging wires attached to the common and the return going to power. These two are 5th and 6th 10 pointers on the schematic. Everything now make sense.

My takeaway is to think, go to sleep, think some more, and think some more!

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