(Topic ID: 47281)

most exciting time for pinball since 92-93


By mrgone

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Craig
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    #1 6 years ago

    right now stern is making more trons,ac/dc,x men,avengers and metallica. woz will be here soon.
    skit b is working on preditor,heighway pinball has their motor cycle themed game in the works,quetzel pinball has capt nemo,the p3 gang have dennis nordman cranking out a game. jpop and ben heck are busy building several cool games and Charlie and the spooky pinball gang are snowed in which is good cause that way they have nothing to do but build games. that's 8 different groups making pins. even at the height of the early 90's there were only b/w,gottlieb,data east/sega and Capcom right now there are double the groups making pins. one could argue that most of the groups making their first game are small boutique pins,run in small numbers. true,capcom never ran big numbers when they were making games. alo to note is the fact that when the big 3 makers of games first started they were small,family owned companies.
    that's right,gottlieb,williams and bally all started out very small and grew over the years.again, this is the best time for pinball in over twenty years.

    #2 6 years ago

    I was thinking the same thing! I didn't get into pinball until 2005, so it was only Stern at that point but WOW there is a lot of exciting things going on.

    And don't forget the Catcus Canyon Continued, color DMDs, LED displays, playfield/backglass reproductions, and so on. Lots of new innovation besides new pins/companies.

    #3 6 years ago

    It really is amazing when you think about it. Not only so many new companies popping up, but just look at the community. So many people restoring older pins, people starting up companies to make mods (toppers, lighting, controllers). I don't know what caused all this, but I'm glad it's resurged.

    #4 6 years ago

    the "best" time was the 60's/70's, when you had multiple established manufacturers each cranking out a new machine (sometimes 2) every month...

    #5 6 years ago

    Obviously in the 90s you had thousands of machines for each title put in public and played by countless people. Now most of these machines are going into basements, but that is the state of things so I'm happy that there are many people making machines now.

    The interesting thing is we've still got only "1" company producing/shipping them. Seems like it is far more difficult to get games out the door than some anticipate, so I'm afraid of some spectacular failures with some of these announced projects.

    #6 6 years ago

    This IS a great time for Pinball. The only problem occurs if there are TOO many good machines coming out at once. If someone REALLY wanted a Metallica, WOZ, Predator and then Star Trek...whoa!

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Obviously in the 90s you had thousands of machines for each title put in public and played by countless people. Now most of these machines are going into basements, but that is the state of things so I'm happy that there are many people making machines now.
    The interesting thing is we've still got only "1" company producing/shipping them. Seems like it is far more difficult to get games out the door than some anticipate, so I'm afraid of some spectacular failures with some of these announced projects.

    very true. with new barcades opening around the country and pinball getting more exposure via radio,tv,interweb. and even pinburg getting exposure via the web that might help get more games in the wild. here's to hoping.

    #8 6 years ago

    It seems like it would have to be an arcade-like situation with PLENTY of machines. When I mention this to friends with restaurants, bars, etc, they still think the machines are too expensive, they don't want to deal with repair issues, insurance and permits are too much. Bottom line is the small return is not worth it.

    #9 6 years ago

    I would disagree

    Quoted from mrgone:even at the height of the early 90's there were only b/w,gottlieb,data east/sega and Capcom right now there are double the groups making pins. one could argue that most of the groups making their first game are small boutique pins,run in small numbers. true,capcom never ran big numbers when they were making games.

    Numbers are too low for "all" those other companies.

    #10 6 years ago

    Yeah, hard to count it if a company is making less than 250 machines...

    #11 6 years ago

    There were 1200 Pinball Magics made by Capcom...plenty of people have never seen one in person. There are going to be what...300 Predators? 30 Cap't Nemos? (just did a search I don't know if that's correct)...etc. How many machines are all these makers going to produce? Is it enough for you to even see one? Throw in Juicy Melons...tthey made a game...are we counting them as Pinball Manufacturers?

    Quoted from spfxted:

    When I mention this to friends with restaurants, bars, etc, they still think the machines are too expensive,

    That's what they said 3-4 years ago. I tell the the price these days and they tell me to "F#$@ off."

    #12 6 years ago

    Yeah, Predator 250. When you're making 30 machines or less it's like a Custom Build. Not many people will ever get to play...shame. UNLESS, Stern or somebody picks up the Capt Nemo machine and runs with it....

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    UNLESS, Stern or somebody picks up the Capt Nemo machine and runs with it....

    Maybe harder to retrofit a concept to your own parts/practices then start anew

    #14 6 years ago

    Probably the truth. It's a shame that some of these great boutique machines will get such limited play...

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    There were 1200 Pinball Magics made by Capcom...plenty of people have never seen one in person. There are going to be what...300 Predators? 30 Cap't Nemos? (just did a search I don't know if that's correct)...etc. How many machines are all these makers going to produce? Is it enough for you to even see one? Throw in Juicy Melons...tthey made a game...are we counting them as Pinball Manufacturers?

    That's what they said 3-4 years ago. I tell the the price these days and they tell me to "F#$@ off."

    The only people that will see/play games from these small manufacturers are those that have friends or families into the hobby enough to buy these NIB. The Capcom games, while low in production numbers, were made for ops and were on location to a degree and there seem to be quite a few in collections these days in my experience. Same goes for some of the rare Segas like Godzilla (I know of 4 in collections in my area alone).

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from DrJoe:

    The only people that will see/play games from these small manufacturers are those that have friends or families into the hobby enough to buy these NIB.

    Exactly me point...does that fill you with "excitement?"

    #17 6 years ago

    Shiver ME timbers! NO!

    #18 6 years ago

    all good comments and thoughts. if,and a big if the trend continues and pinball continues to become more popular among the masses. the boutique pin makers could find themselves expanding and building a greater number of games. maybe not likely,but always possible. or some might combine their efforts.say jpop,ben heck,and Charlie group together to form one company. that could be one possible outcome. either way, all pinheads should be excited about the future of pinball.

    #19 6 years ago

    I love the interest and growth, but the hobby is just too damn expensive to expect much more out of it. And prices keep climbing, with no end in sight. Fun for those who can afford it, but not gonna do anything for broader exposure or a return to anything but niche location play.

    #20 6 years ago

    Sort of true. There are a few of my friends that would love to get a Pinball like Metallica but the price is WAY out of line for them.

    #21 6 years ago

    The price needs to be able to come down to really make pinball have a resurgence, lower prices and more reliable games would help location. From what I've seen (your opinion may vary) stern's last few machines have actually hurt location pinball as their broken so often. Every person who finds out I have pins tell me about how they played acdc/avengers/tf/xmen or whatever but it broke mid way and took their money then they joke about if my pins actually work or are just paper weights. Maybe it's just bad ops around here but either way if pins were lower cost for the people who want private machines and they were more reliable that even a bad op could keep them maintained there would be a market who would play them.

    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I love the interest and growth, but the hobby is just too damn expensive to expect much more out of it. And prices keep climbing, with no end in sight. Fun for those who can afford it, but not gonna do anything for broader exposure or a return to anything but niche location play.

    Predator is around $4750. Nemo €4300-4425. Sterns Pro are in the same price range or less.
    Second hand "lesser" Sterns may be found for much less than that: got my WPT for less than $2k.
    Add a $400 EM to your lineup and you can get a decent variety of pins for a reasonable fee.

    Stay away from the most seeked pins (Do you need a LE??), avoid buying the next "hot game" and I swear this is this best time for Pin lovers for a very, very long time!

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Predator is around $4750. Nemo €4300-4425. Sterns Pro are in the same price range or less.
    Second hand "lesser" Sterns may be found for much less than that: got my WPT for less than $2k.
    Add a $400 EM to your lineup and you can get a decent variety of pins for a reasonable fee.
    Stay away from the most seeked pins (Do you need a LE??), avoid buying the next "hot game" and I swear this is this best time for Pin lovers for a very, very long time!

    +1 and great advice.

    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from dankme:

    And don't forget the Catcus Canyon Continued,

    What's this?

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    again, this is the best time for pinball in over twenty years.

    Certainly seems that way! And amazing how quickly it went from the worst time in over twenty years to the best time! Just when we feared the light might go out, it now blazes on like never before! Great time to be a Pinhead!

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    that's 8 different groups making pins. even at the height of the early 90's there were only b/w,gottlieb,data east/sega and Capcom right now there are double the groups making pins. one could argue that most of the groups making their first game are small boutique pins,run in small numbers. true,capcom never ran big numbers when they were making games. alo to note is the fact that when the big 3 makers of games first started they were small,family owned companies.

    Exciting for the home buyer side of the hobby maybe. Depressing time for the location side of the hobby.

    In 1992, which you mentioned in the subject line, more than 100,000 games were built. Last year, Stern built maybe 6000. Most of the boutique builders are targeting the home buyers. The home market will never buy in the numbers operators once did. Pinball machines in the home are $6000+ luxury items. There isn't enough wealth in this country (or any other country) to bring back those kind of manufacturing numbers.

    The best way to support the hobby is to play on location regularly and encourage others to do the same. It's going to take more than home buyers to bring this hobby back to what it once was. If there are no location games in your area, or the few that are there are in poor condition, put your own games out on location.

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    This IS a great time for Pinball. The only problem occurs if there are TOO many good machines coming out at once. If someone REALLY wanted a Metallica, WOZ, Predator and then Star Trek...whoa!

    No Problem ....SALE!!

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinmanguy:

    The price needs to be able to come down to really make pinball have a resurgence, lower prices and more reliable games would help location. From what I've seen (your opinion may vary) stern's last few machines have actually hurt location pinball as their broken so often. Every person who finds out I have pins tell me about how they played acdc/avengers/tf/xmen or whatever but it broke mid way and took their money then they joke about if my pins actually work or are just paper weights. Maybe it's just bad ops around here but either way if pins were lower cost for the people who want private machines and they were more reliable that even a bad op could keep them maintained there would be a market who would play them.

    Stern's "The Pin" addresses many of your points.

    #31 6 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Stern's "The Pin" addresses many of your points.

    only "the pin" isn't cheap and from what I've read breaks down a lot and is a pain in the ass to service/work on and isn't designed in the slightest for being place on route....

    It's a start to helping the private market grow for regular families and I really like the idea if they can lower the price a bit more, but it doesn't solve the main point of my post about needing to be more reliable because a large portion of ops these days seem to be terrible.

    #32 6 years ago

    Why do we have such limited info on these other pins being made? I really like the look of Captain Nemo from what I have seen.

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:

    Why do we have such limited info on these other pins being made? I really like the look of Captain Nemo from what I have seen.

    Artwork is truly beautiful!

    Quetzal pinball website:
    http://quetzalpinball.com/

    Nemo thread:
    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/captain-nemo-by-quetzal-pinball

    Well, this thread has not been active for a while. Future buyers received info by email. I will post a few new pictures if Antonio allows it.

    #34 6 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Predator is around $4750. Nemo €4300-4425. Sterns Pro are in the same price range or less.
    Second hand "lesser" Sterns may be found for much less than that: got my WPT for less than $2k.
    Add a $400 EM to your lineup and you can get a decent variety of pins for a reasonable fee.
    Stay away from the most seeked pins (Do you need a LE??), avoid buying the next "hot game" and I swear this is this best time for Pin lovers for a very, very long time!

    No offense, but $4000 is ridiculous to most people. Like, are you out of your fucking mind money to spend on a toy. $2000 is a joke, and what? That's used? And it might break or I need to work on it? It only sounds like a deal because we're inmates in the asylum!

    I hope the hobby stays strong, but don't get too excited about it growing in leaps and bounds. At best interest from those with the money and warm memories will keep showing up.

    I get PR from Stern's agency, they sent me this:

    "Within forty-five minutes of the news breaking, the Metallica Limited Edition Master of Puppets version sold out, an all-time high for Stern Pinball. Sales records were also set for the Pro and Premium versions.

    A surge of pin players from Metallica devotees to gaming aficionados swamped the Stern site to get a firsthand look at the new game. It didn’t take long for the millions of fans and purchasers to knock the server offline, resulting in what Stern Pinball determined as a very successful launch."

    Hey, great, I'm pulling for it. Don't think it's all gloom. But tamper it with realism. Metallica isn't going to reconvert the world.

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Predator is around $4750. Nemo €4300-4425. Sterns Pro are in the same price range or less.
    Second hand "lesser" Sterns may be found for much less than that: got my WPT for less than $2k.
    Add a $400 EM to your lineup and you can get a decent variety of pins for a reasonable fee.
    Stay away from the most seeked pins (Do you need a LE??), avoid buying the next "hot game" and I swear this is this best time for Pin lovers for a very, very long time!

    in the US the Stern Pro's etc are around $4500 back here in the Netherlands they are €5500 that is about $7200 due to taxes import etc. And the LE's are even a lot more expensive. So probably not for everyone around here i am afraid. The hobbit LE is €8000 that is $10.500 so you are very lucky to live in the US!

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from hb1981:

    so you are very lucky to live in the US!

    Yes

    #37 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Numbers are too low for "all" those other companies.

    Agreed Take a step WAYYYY back and look at the entire history of modern pinball(60's to now).
    Hey day 70's
    Dark ages 80's...video killed the pinball star including Gottlieb which closed early 90's
    Renaissance Era 90's 2 giants merge and create iconic A titles best era for innovation,pinball dies it's first death with B/W withdrawing.
    Life Support(2000 till now) Thanks to Stern for keeping vigil.Scott

    #38 6 years ago

    thinking about this thread some more, I will agree that without question it IS an exciting time for pinball.

    Also, the other thing different between now and the 90s is the internet. So, even with low production runs, we can all learn and follow these new titles, watch videos of them, read reviews, and all share in the excitement, whether or not a unit will be located near us (or owned by us) or not.

    #39 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:

    Why do we have such limited info on these other pins being made? I really like the look of Captain Nemo from what I have seen.

    VERY limited amount of machines being made.

    #40 6 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    the millions of fans and purchasers

    Whoa. Talk about hype! Weren't there 250 initial U.S. purchasers? (And, of course, there weren't 250 individual purchasers, but 250 machines.) Millions??? The story is good enough already. Exaggerating only damages your credibility.

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