(Topic ID: 296697)

Moss Distributing- Selling paid for pins, on Pinside

By BlackTiePinhead

3 months ago


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  • 123 posts
  • 60 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by NashtyFunk
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 123 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 3 months ago
Quoted from BlackTiePinhead:

So that I can follow up clearly, lets go through the timeline....
May 7th- Got connected with Colt.
May 10th- Confirmed for 1 of 14, with billing addy and all the pertinent information
May 11th- Provided CC for full payment over the phone to Colt directly, so that I could avoid any issues
Jun 23rd- Asked for an update, no response....
July 3rd- Asked for another update, got a pic of boxes in hand
July 6th- Ad goes on Pinside
July 8th- Call Colt
July 9th- Call Colt
July 12th- Call Terry directly, get told they have no record of my purchase, and my email response from him was "We are sold out, sorry"
within 10 minutes of me being off the phone with Terry, Colt is texting me up about how he's trying to play 'musical pinball' and he sold too many. After being confronted with his Pinside ad, he states "you can see there aren't 14".... as if that's a great argument? So Colt apparently has the record of my purchase, but Terry does not. This is now evident, after what I can only assume was an angry call from Terry to Colt (timing checks out)
Now with all this said, and convos that be supported by screen caps, Colt himself mentions keeping a few to resell. Not at any point in my follow up was there an issue of payment, processing, shipping, or availability. When the distro sends pics of NIB games, wouldn't you think you're golden? The only logical explanation to me, is they decided to upsell it at a higher price, or for a "better client".
Their (Moss) position is Colt never actually charged my CC, which after having to go back through records, is correct (I'll take the heat for the misrepresentation, because I had to call my accountant to find this out). In my mind, payment was rendered when my CC was provided, on May 11th, I actually told him I could do a bank draft, but if they were willing to do CC, I'd take the points. To me it was never about the money. It was about the machine. I'm not a flipping the game for thousands more, I'm a player who wanted the game in my house. If we'd like to talk about actual $ amounts, the amount over MSRP for the replacement cost would be the money I'm technically out (Currently 13k)
So Moss, you're correct, you don't have my money, but that's more due to Colt's utter incompetence, than my lack of payment. My main question for Stern, is exactly how many LE's did Moss receive?
So to summarize.......Colt "I am a Lawyer" Moss, you can go love yourself and your texted midnight threats of a defamation lawsuit....You're an incompetent excuse for a businessman, and attorney #StrictlyBusiness [quoted image]

You ain’t out shit. Call the number on the back of your card next time.

#102 3 months ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Good point, bad math.

I charge fees, baby. I don’t work for free or loan money at 0%.

#103 3 months ago

This LE machine stuff is making people look like crack heads. No morals.

#104 3 months ago
Quoted from ZombieKing:First, whether OP’s CC was charged is irrelevant. A contract occurs when the parties exchange promises. I promise to pay. You promise to deliver. Mutual consideration has been exchanged. There is a contract. Failure to deliver the promised pin is a breach.
Second, OP did experience a loss. He had a contract to purchase a pin for $9,500 that appears to have been sold for $13,500. OP is out $4,500, the difference between what he contractually agreed to pay and what the pin’s value increased to.
I’d let Stern know that the distributor is burning bridges and find a different distributor.

And just like that, someone gets it

#105 3 months ago

You two should start a club!

14
#106 3 months ago
Quoted from ZombieKing:

A contract occurs when the parties exchange promises. I promise to pay. You promise to deliver. Mutual consideration has been exchanged. There is a contract.

“A contract does not exist if each party to the contract has the unilateral enforceable right to terminate a wholly unperformed contract without compensating the other party (parties). A contract is wholly unperformed if both of the following criteria are met:

a. The entity has not yet transferred any promised goods or services to the customer.
b. The entity has not yet received, and is not yet entitled to receive, any consideration in exchange for promised goods or
services.”

There is no contract.

#107 3 months ago

Yeah, you might have reliance and estoppel arguments. But you don’t have a contract. Fine lines, but important lines nonetheless. In the end, whatever the difference is will not be worth the price of doing anything about it - certainly not in what’s going to end up being federal jurisdiction.

Let me come back and add: the above is just purely impromptu opinion. I do not mean to imply that you didn’t get dicked over in the deal or that they don’t deserve the appropriate Pinside assessment and reaction.

#108 3 months ago

Whether the OP could bring a valid legal claim is a matter only an attorney licensed to practice law could advise (and no attorney member of Pinside will do this, for fear of inadvertently creating an attorney client relationship). Whether the OP could win is a matter only a jury or judge could decide, assuming the OP actually wanted to pay to bring such an action. At most, the OP has a claim for $4K, which is the difference between the promised LE price, and the argued going rate of the LE pins in this thread. No attorney is going to take that potential amount of judgement on consignment. That means the OP would need to pay attorney's fees at the prevailing rate for the lawyer, which probably isn't going to happen, as such fees would likely exceed the judgment amount...

It is however, BS the OP was sent a picture of the promised game, only to find out such game didn't exist...

#109 3 months ago
Quoted from jrdjhnson:

Whether the OP could bring a valid legal claim is a matter only an attorney licensed to practice law could advise (and no attorney member of Pinside will do this, for fear of inadvertently creating an attorney client relationship). Whether the OP could win is a matter only a jury or judge could decide, assuming the OP actually wanted to pay to bring such an action. At most, the OP has a claim for $4K, which is the difference between the promised LE price, and the argued going rate of the LE pins in this thread. No attorney is going to take that potential amount of judgement on contingency. That means the OP would need to pay attorney's fees at the prevailing rate for the lawyer, which probably isn't going to happen, as such fees would likely exceed the judgment amount...
It is however, BS the OP was sent a picture of the promised game, only to find out such game didn't exist...

#110 3 months ago

I don't think anyone wants to go to court over this, but clearly there was a deal made. The guy took payment method and clearly agreed that a sale had been made. Direct evidence of this had already been provided. The Distro backed out of the deal and sold machines afterward at a markup.

They never tried to rectify the problem and offered horrible customer service. The complaints seem fair to me, and I hope a lot of people read this thread and avoid Moss in the future. Vote with your wallet!

"Paid for" should be omitted from the title. "Shady dealings" would be better.

#111 3 months ago

The best solution to this problem? Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves.

#112 3 months ago
Quoted from ZombieKing:

The best solution to this problem? Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves.

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#113 3 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I don't think anyone wants to go to court over this, but clearly there was a deal made. The guy took payment method and clearly agreed that a sale had been made. Direct evidence of this had already been provided. The Distro backed out of the deal and sold machines afterward at a markup.
They never tried to rectify the problem and offered horrible customer service. The complaints seem fair to me, and I hope a lot of people read this thread and avoid Moss in the future. Vote with your wallet!
"Paid for" should be omitted from the title. "Shady dealings" would be better.

This would be the best summary of the whole debacle.

#114 3 months ago

What possible argument could be had?

If you have a “meeting of the minds” and one party relied on that promise to their detriment then one could argue “promissory estoppel” amongst other theories of contract law

If you have to hire an attorney you are F Ed from day one

#115 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If you have to hire an attorney you are F Ed from day one

That is the key part here. You'd have to hire an attorney, pay him. And a good one would cost more than you'd ever get. A really good one would tell you that you don't have a case.

LTG : )

#116 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If you have to hire an attorney you are F Ed from day one

Ahh, I have my attorney on retainer to cause pain.
It makes me feel good.

#117 3 months ago

I shouldn’t chime in here, but I will. I usually purchase over $75k from Moss every year. We’ve never had the slightest issue other than delays in shipping from a jukebox manufacturer one time. In many cases, an instock piece of equipment that’s ordered on Monday is here Tuesday (freight lines don’t run that fast post COVID unfortunately.) Anyways, let’s consider the current environment of things:

One, our economy and world around us is trying to regain normalcy post pandemic. There’s huge demand and limited availability of most any product right now, and coin-op seems to have been hit as hard if not harder than anything. Distributors have hardly any equipment to sell, and customers wanting to know when they can expect their desires. Manufacturers have no answers because they have bo clue as to when to expect their parts suppliers to fill the orders. Everyone is scrambling to grab cash and get the ball rolling, but there’s not much to trade to make this happen.

Second, the LE craze for Mandolorians has been ludicrous. The way the events have transpired, it’s almost like the script of a Mel Brooks movie. Don’t want to give me $13k for my LE? What’s the matter Sanders, chicken?

To the OP, it’s unfortunate you didn’t get your machine. If you’re in business and charging $150k/month on your credit card, you should know how messed up supply and demand currently is. This is the new norm. Pun intended-this is the way. I’m not taking a shot at you. This really is unfortunate. At the same time, some of your comments regarding the Moss family were inaccurate and unwarranted. Did you get shafted by them? Yes. But you didn’t get fucked the way you made it out. It’s a pinball machine. There’s going to be more. You’ll get one. They come and go. Do I wish this had worked out in your favor? Absolutely! I’m sure it ultimately will in time, with patience.

To everyone that’s saying Stern should cut loose of Moss as a distributor, or blasting them without ever dealing with them, or for that matter even ever heard of them, I have one statement: If my memory is correct, Moss is one of the oldest DE/Sega/Stern distributors. Terry has probably sold more pieces of Gary Stern equipment than anyone. He’s been an integral part of keeping Stern, and for that matter pinball as a whole (remember when the only manufacturer left standing was Stern), alive. This doesn’t give anyone a hall pass.

TL:DR it sucks this happened. We’ve heard from one side. Not the other. It’s unwise to refrain from forming opinions when you don’t have all the facts. I’m not taking sides or defending anyone. Hell, maybe I’m wrong? I’m just a dumb fat kid from Oklahoma. Y’all remember, it’s just pinball. Pinball is for fun. It’s not life or death.

#118 3 months ago
Quoted from ryanbrooks:

I’m not taking sides or defending anyone.

For what it's worth. Terry has always been great to me. Iowa and Minnesota.

I know it's crazy out there and sorry the way things happened. I hope the OP finds the game he wants.

LTG : )

#119 3 months ago

HAPPENS.
With my Met LE bought and refunded due to Stern taking back from Distro and almost happened on GNRce as well..
Not cool when you have paid in full before even you hear sold out , then told nope no dice ,no game and get refunded but way to late to0o0o go elsewhere

#120 3 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

That is the key part here. You'd have to hire an attorney, pay him. And a good one would cost more than you'd ever get. A really good one would tell you that you don't have a case.
LTG : )

You have a case Lloyd. An honest attorney would say don’t hire me. It’s not worth it to fight this

#121 3 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Ahh, I have my attorney on retainer to cause pain.
It makes me feel good.

He loves you too Mike!

#122 3 months ago

Pinballers -

I have had a great experience in the past with Moss Distributing and Colt and provided a Positive Review on Pinside. Moss Distributing has been in this business for multiple generations. If they weren't reputable, I highly doubt they would still be around. There are only so many machines available - some people will be disappointed. I reached out to another distributor and they had a list of 93 people wanting 30 games in the first hour of Mandolorian's announcement. I hate to see Pinball bring out the worst in people.

ryanbrooks said it very well:

Quoted from ryanbrooks:

Y’all remember, it’s just pinball. Pinball is for fun. It’s not life or death.

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#123 3 months ago

Your assessment isnt flawed. I agree with you. I do know both sides having talked to Terry 5x now on the phone. If Terry was the one who made the sale, it would have gone through. The issue is Colt never communicated his buyer list to Terry and all Terry's sales guys had clients that wanted Mando LEs and a few of Colt's people go left hosed. It was made much worse by the non-existent communication from Colt to his buyers. I never heard from him after July 6th.
I do trust that if Terry told someone they were getting something that he would make that happen. That's the end of the story. Colt committed to people with the authority that he did in fact have. Didn't write up sales slips on it and never communicated those numbers so a few people got left out, including me who bought 5 machines in the last 6 months.
Then again, my over arching opinion is slightly different which is why my FB post is different. It doesn't make it suck less though. It's a problem that could have been dealt with 2 months ago when the game was announced but folks went months believing their machines were coming. Even to the point of being told they'd ship out the next day etc. That's why it "feels" worse than just getting hosed and over sold.

TL:DR - If you want to buy from Moss, go through Terry on it and get a confirmation in writing. They had 14 LEs and at least 17 people were told they were good and their machines were shipping soon.

Quoted from ryanbrooks:

I shouldn’t chime in here, but I will. I usually purchase over $75k from Moss every year. We’ve never had the slightest issue other than delays in shipping from a jukebox manufacturer one time. In many cases, an instock piece of equipment that’s ordered on Monday is here Tuesday (freight lines don’t run that fast post COVID unfortunately.) Anyways, let’s consider the current environment of things:
One, our economy and world around us is trying to regain normalcy post pandemic. There’s huge demand and limited availability of most any product right now, and coin-op seems to have been hit as hard if not harder than anything. Distributors have hardly any equipment to sell, and customers wanting to know when they can expect their desires. Manufacturers have no answers because they have bo clue as to when to expect their parts suppliers to fill the orders. Everyone is scrambling to grab cash and get the ball rolling, but there’s not much to trade to make this happen.
Second, the LE craze for Mandolorians has been ludicrous. The way the events have transpired, it’s almost like the script of a Mel Brooks movie. Don’t want to give me $13k for my LE? What’s the matter Sanders, chicken?
To the OP, it’s unfortunate you didn’t get your machine. If you’re in business and charging $150k/month on your credit card, you should know how messed up supply and demand currently is. This is the new norm. Pun intended-this is the way. I’m not taking a shot at you. This really is unfortunate. At the same time, some of your comments regarding the Moss family were inaccurate and unwarranted. Did you get shafted by them? Yes. But you didn’t get fucked the way you made it out. It’s a pinball machine. There’s going to be more. You’ll get one. They come and go. Do I wish this had worked out in your favor? Absolutely! I’m sure it ultimately will in time, with patience.
To everyone that’s saying Stern should cut loose of Moss as a distributor, or blasting them without ever dealing with them, or for that matter even ever heard of them, I have one statement: If my memory is correct, Moss is one of the oldest DE/Sega/Stern distributors. Terry has probably sold more pieces of Gary Stern equipment than anyone. He’s been an integral part of keeping Stern, and for that matter pinball as a whole (remember when the only manufacturer left standing was Stern), alive. This doesn’t give anyone a hall pass.
TL:DR it sucks this happened. We’ve heard from one side. Not the other. It’s unwise to refrain from forming opinions when you don’t have all the facts. I’m not taking sides or defending anyone. Hell, maybe I’m wrong? I’m just a dumb fat kid from Oklahoma. Y’all remember, it’s just pinball. Pinball is for fun. It’s not life or death.

There are 123 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.

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