(Topic ID: 268534)

More than 7 flashes

By oldschoolbob

3 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by adalogue
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 years ago

    I just finished working on a Bally -17. It was pretty corroded. I replaced all the components in the lower section including U8 socket. I bench tested it yesterday and today. It booted fine - all 7 flashes. Tonight I thought I'd take some photos and a video. Now it's flashing 8 times. After the 7th flash it comes back on and just strobes really fast. The strobing is not showing in the video. I've never seen this before. I don't even know where to look.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #2 3 years ago

    How are you connecting the board to
    get the 7th flash? That’s not an easy one to get on the bench.

    Clay says, maybe helpful:
    Seven Flashes Constantly Repeats.
    The MPU boots and gets to the 7th flash, then start all over and repeats the seven flashes, then starts all over and does it over and over. This can happen from a bad 6810 RAM at U7. Or possibly a bad socket at U7.

    Also check:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/BfgwI1f25t4

    #3 3 years ago

    Check the frequency output signal on pin 3 of the U12 chip. You should measure around 320Hz.

    This signal interrupts the CPU so it can update the displays on a regular basis and does a digit every 1/320 of a second. When the digits are being updated, the MPU LED is also quickly switched on and off which makes it look dim during normal game operation.
    If the frequency of this is wildly out of whack, the LED illumination could appear different after the 7th flash.

    #4 3 years ago

    What quench said and I imagine the zero crossing interrupt circuit could be suspect too. The POST just looks for one interrupt to happen, if its well out of time the diag led behavior may be odd.

    #5 3 years ago

    I'm getting 330.8 Hz. What is except able?

    #6 3 years ago

    adalogue, my power supply has a 24 volt output as well as 5 and 12 volts. I only use the 24 volts (connected to TP3) to check for the last flash.

    It's not rebooting - after the seventh flash the LED just goes in a constant flicker.

    Bob

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    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    I'm getting 330.8 Hz. What is except able?

    Yes, 330Hz is fine.

    What happens after the board has passed the 7 LED flashes if you then remove the 24V zero crossing connection? Does the MPU LED still flicker?

    What happens when you hook the board up in an actual game?

    BTW can you post a clear picture of the bottom left of the board? I'm curious why inductors L1 and L2 next to the J4 connector look so different.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    BTW can you post a clear picture of the bottom left of the board? I'm curious why inductors L1 and L2 next to the J4 connector look so different.

    L2 was replaced because of corrosion

    Before

    IMG_4518 (resized).JPGIMG_4518 (resized).JPG

    After

    IMG_4643 (resized).JPGIMG_4643 (resized).JPG

    Quoted from Quench:

    What happens when you hook the board up in an actual game?

    The only game I have here at this time is a Meteor - MPU 200.

    Quoted from Quench:

    What happens after the board has passed the 7 LED flashes if you then remove the 24V zero crossing connection? Does the MPU LED still flicker?

    I'll let you know shortly.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #9 3 years ago

    When I boot with 24 Volts connected I get the usual - 7 flashes then flicker. Then I turned off the 24 V at the power supply and it rebooted but only 6 flashes (as expected). Then I booted again with 24 V and it did it's usual thing as before but this time I disconnected the 24 V lead at TP3 and it continued to flicker but the flicker seemed to have a different frequency. It would flicker then stop flickering for a second then start flickering again.

    Earlier today I looked over the work I did and I wasn't real happy with the solder joints at C16. Although continuity was good the solder joints didn't look so good. I removed C16, Cleaned the pads and reinstalled it. No difference.

    Visually I can't see anything else wrong.

    Where to go next?

    Thanks

    Bob

    #10 3 years ago

    This thing booted fine last week when I rebuilt everything. Then I installed the headers and it booted fine. Then I painted the bare copper traces and it booted fine. As soon as I got out my camera for a video it starts messing up.

    #11 3 years ago

    The legs on the 5101 RAM look green. Might want to carefully clean them with a small brass wire brush.
    Is the U6 ROM chip plugged all the way in? It looks like it's sitting out a bit.

    That new inductor looks like an old fashioned resistor

    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    The only game I have here at this time is a Meteor - MPU 200.

    Put the board in the Meteor. Don't bother connecting the J5 sound board connector and disconnect J4 from the solenoid driver board to prevent any solenoids firing at the wrong time.

    What happens after the 7th LED flash?

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The legs on the 5101 RAM look green. Might want to carefully clean them with a small brass wire brush

    I replaced the socket and cleaned the legs but maybe not very well - it was corroded. I have a fear of breaking off the legs. Any tips on how to clean them?

    Quoted from Quench:

    Is the U6 ROM chip plugged all the way in? It looks like it's sitting out a bit.

    I think it's the way those ROMs are made. U2 is the same way.

    IMG_4648 (resized).JPGIMG_4648 (resized).JPG

    Quoted from Quench:

    That new inductor looks like an old fashioned resistor

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=LM2-R22K

    Can I just put the board in the Meteor and connect MPU J4 only?

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Can I just put the board in the Meteor and connect MPU J4 only?

    Yes you can connect MPU J4 only. But I would also hook up J1 so you can see the displays and lamp behavior which will give you insight as to whether the board is processing attract mode properly - watch for the display sequence being normal.

    #14 3 years ago

    Thanks Quench, I'll try that tomorrow.

    Isn't this the zero crossing circuit?

    zero x (resized).JPGzero x (resized).JPG

    Could U10 or U14 be causing this problem?

    Bob

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Could U10 or U14 be causing this problem?

    Possible, but again you want to see what's happening in attract mode to get a better idea.

    BTW swap U10 and U11 around and see what happens.

    #16 3 years ago

    I replace U10 (I didn't swap). Got the same results.

    I checked the voltages as indicated in the above post.

    CR49 top = 5.25 (should be 5v)

    CR49 bottom = 5.38 (should be 4.9

    U14 Pin 14 = 5.38
    pin 10 and 5 =4.9
    pin 9 and 15 = 336 mV
    pin 4 = 336 mV

    Now here's the strange thing, after probing those voltages I looked over at the LED and it was off. I rebooted several times and now I get just the seven flashes - no flickering.

    After typing this I went back and checked it again - same as before - seven flashes then flickering. I left it on for a minute or so and rebooted - seven flashes then off - no flickering. Seems it needs to warm up before it works right.

    Next I turned on only the 24 V and let it warm up for a few minutes (no 5 or 12 V). Then I turned on the 5 & 12 V - same thing seven flashes then flickering. I left it flicker for a few minutes then rebooted. No difference still flickering. (BTW I love this power supply)

    I didn't have time today to swap boards in the Meteor. That's next.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #17 3 years ago

    I just tried the board in the Meteor. Seven flashes then what looks like solid on. It might be flickering but I can't tell. Attract mode seems to be working - the feature lights seems to be working as normal. Only the left 3 digits on all displays are on but they are flickering. The forth digit (from the left) acts like it wants to join the party but it just don't want to come on. I'd call it half flickering. The last two are dark.

    I didn't screw the board down - I just plugged in J1 and J4 and left the board hanging. Dangerous, I know.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    I replace U10 (I didn't swap).

    What about U11? The display interrupt generator goes into it, it drives the MPU LED, it enables each individual display digit and it's closer to the corrosion zone.

    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    I have a fear of breaking off the legs. Any tips on how to clean them?

    Forgot to answer this, I just use a small brass wire brush. Start gently. Along the pins and across the pins.

    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Seems it needs to warm up before it works right.

    In that case if it's a thermal issue, time to pull out the freeze spray and locally hit chips one at a time.

    #19 3 years ago

    I had a little shop time today. I was going to swap U11 but first I thought I'd try to boot it up. It booted fine - seven flashes then off. I tried several times - it worked every time. I left it on for 10 - 15 minutes and tried again. It booted fine. Then I rechecked the voltages as I did above. Same voltages as before. I booted it several more times and it works fine every time.

    Now I'm at a real loss. I can't fix it if it ain't broke - but I know it's broke.

    I'll try again later.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #20 3 years ago

    Possible you have a flaky/intermittent connection somewhere? Socket/pad/etc.? Hard to track down systematically but if you apply pressure to the board in different areas when booting it may at least help rule it out.

    #21 3 years ago

    What I did do was push the U11 down in the socket a little more. I didn't think it made a difference but maybe it did. I think a close look at U11 and perhaps I'll change it next. Not getting any shop time lately.

    I'll keep you all advised.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #22 3 years ago

    After I cut the grass today I got a little shop time. I booted up the board several times and it worked fine. I removed U11 and the chip was clean. I removed the socket housing and sure enough it was corroded under it. I proceeded to remove the socket pins and clean the solder pads. I hope to clean a little more and install a new socket tomorrow. Maybe we found the problem. I'll let you know.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #23 3 years ago

    Friday I replaced the U11 socket and it booted just fine but I didn't want to take any chances so today I replaced the U7 socket. I already replaced the U8 socket. It's booting fine now. I think we got this solved.

    Thanks to everyone.

    Bob

    #24 3 years ago

    Way to stick with it!

    Reply

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