(Topic ID: 312888)

More Team One woes, one quirk left on last ball

By AlexF

2 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by AlexF
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Gottlieb experts please have mercy on me and help me get this thing dialed in. I worked through a few things and thought I had this game good to go. Been play testing it every night and it mostly plays correctly.

I noticed over the last couple evenings one remaining issue. If I earn a Wow on the last ball, when it drains I lose both the wow and the last ball. Basically when the ball lands in the outhole it decrements the lightbox advance unit and the Wow goes away. Then the ball is kicked out and rolls over the lane switch it decrements the ball count stepper and goes to game over.

I have a schematic but I'm not great at reading them and this one is on of those blueprint sample ones. Which is neat until you try reading it with old eyes.

Any help is appreciated.

#2 2 years ago

I had the same issue... there is a contact on the wow stepper that closes a zero wows and thus enabling the decrement of the ball count unit. If the contact closes at 1 wow Im sure you can imagine what would happen...

You need a Wizard kit for that Team One.

Ken

#3 2 years ago

So I'm guessing this contact shouldn't close until the last wow is awarded? The trouble is it closes when it hits the outhole? Which is fine but then when it kicks over the outlane switch the ball count decrements tripping game over. I played around with these two steppers so much last night my head was spinning. Sounds like that's where I need to continue? This lightbox advance unit (Wow unit) has been the source of all my troubles with this game.

I like your kit Ken but feel this one being a sample needs to stay original. Heck I even thought this was a cool idea 6 years ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-wants-a-repo-abra-ca-dabra-playfield#post-2952425
Fun to see it happen.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

So I'm guessing this contact shouldn't close until the last wow is awarded? The trouble is it closes when it hits the outhole? Which is fine but then when it kicks over the outlane switch the ball count decrements tripping game over. I played around with these two steppers so much last night my head was spinning. Sounds like that's where I need to continue? This lightbox advance unit (Wow unit) has been the source of all my troubles with this game.
I like your kit Ken but feel this one being a sample needs to stay original. Heck I even thought this was a cool idea 6 years ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-wants-a-repo-abra-ca-dabra-playfield#post-2952425
Fun to see it happen.

closed only at zero wows.

I understand you sample game. I need to find one more (rough) TeamOne, sold 12 complete games and I have 11 without sacrificing my sample Wizard.

I did make up an extra set of lower plastics should you need

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#5 2 years ago

We had the same problem intermittently with a team one Ken helped with mine also. I believe that Ken has owned more Team Ones than anyone else. It came down to adjusting the gap of the break switch in the light box connected to the yellow green wire, it was breaking too soon.

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#6 2 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

closed only at zero wows.
I understand you sample game. I need to find one more (rough) TeamOne, sold 12 complete games and I have 11 without sacrificing my sample Wizard.
I did make up an extra set of lower plastics should you need
[quoted image][quoted image]

Nice! I bought a set of lower plastics and you sent along a pair of protectors. I think I am good on those. There are a couple others I discovered I need but not something that's urgent.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Judoratt:

We had the same problem intermittently with a team one Ken helped with mine also. I believe that Ken has owned more Team Ones than anyone else. It came down to adjusting the gap of the break switch in the light box connected to the yellow green wire, it was breaking too soon.
[quoted image]

That is exactly what it was! Thank you, thank you, thank you! You know I had gone through this stepper a number of times and checked the make/break over and over. A marginal adjustment on the one you mentioned did the trick. Just enough of a minute timing thing to make a difference.

I've never been the best tech but usually can get a game running good with some patience. Every once in awhile one comes along that really humbles and frustrates you. So grateful for all the help on this machine.

#8 2 years ago

Yeah I chased that intermittent problem for six months. Nothing’s more deflating when you’ve got a WOW on your last ball and it disappears.

#9 2 years ago

I'm having trouble understanding the problem and the solution. Can anyone elaborate? Is the problem that the Lightbox Advance Zero Position switches change state while the ball rolls over the Trough switch so both units step down, almost simultaneously? Or is the problem that the Lightbox Advance Unit steps down before the ball is kicked to the shooter lane, and that the Ball Count steps down once the Trough switch closes?

/Mark

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Or is the problem that the Lightbox Advance Unit steps down before the ball is kicked to the shooter lane, and that the Ball Count steps down once the Trough switch closes?
/Mark

This.

The problem seemed to be a timing thing. The fix was to open up the lightbox advance zero position switch a bit so as to create a very slight delay. Super marginal amount of time added to the closing of that switch seems to make all the difference.

#11 2 years ago

The problem would only occur when this scenario happened. Balls to play is 1 with 1 Wow flag lit. Drain when the game was in this state and you'd lose the wow AND the ball in play, and go to game over with ball in shooter lane.

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#12 2 years ago

If the Lightbox Advance unit steped down before the Trough switch closed that implies that a Score Motor switch caused it to step down. Looking at the schematic, I don't think the Lightbox Advance unit should ever step down because of a Score Motor switch, unless you've tilted and the H/Tilt Hold relay switch allows pulses from Motor 2C to get through. (Note that the H relay switch is shown as normally closed because the schematic is usually drawn with the game unplugged. When the game is on the H/Tilt Hold relay is usually active and that switch would be open.)
Team One Subtract Ball Count 3 (resized).jpgTeam One Subtract Ball Count 3 (resized).jpg
If the problem only happens on the last ball, that implies that it's using the 5th position Ball Count Unit switch in the red box and the Motor 4B switch next to it. But if the Zero Position Lightbox Advance Make/Break switch (other red box) is working there should be no way for that pulse to get through to the Subtract Lightbox Advance Unit solenoid.

What may have been happening is that the Make/Break switch was actually closed on both sides which would have created a path from the Motor 4B switch to the Subtract Lightbox Advance Unit solenoid. Adjusting that switch may have made it "break before make" as it should so there is never a path between the two outer leaves.

The solution to the problem is the same (adjust the switch) but I think the reason is different than a timing issue. You could test the theory by jumpering the two outside leaves of that Make/Break switch together to see if the problem reappears.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

What may have been happening is that the Make/Break switch was actually closed on both sides which would have created a path from the Motor 4B switch to the Subtract Lightbox Advance Unit solenoid. Adjusting that switch may have made it "break before make" as it should so there is never a path between the two outer leaves.

That's probably it. There may have been a millisecond when both sides were closed causing what you described.

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