(Topic ID: 96667)

More JP Switch Matrix Issues

By MArmour

9 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by thedefog
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

I'm back again with more switch issues in my JP. Starting to think this game hates me.

Anyway, here is my last topic should anyone find it relevant:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jp-switch-matrix-issue

So, jumping right into the testing here is the switch matrix I am seeing:

image-962.jpgimage-962.jpg

The switches marked in green are working fine. The ones in orange don't seem to work at all and switches in column 6 activate all the switches in that row (including the "not used" ones) when activated. I am getting frustrated with this one so instead of going nuts for much longer I've posted asking for help.

Let me know if there is anything you want me to check/test or if I'm missing something obvious.

Thanks Pinside!

#2 9 years ago

Check all the column voltages. The signal is pulsed and column 6 will most likely be locked on and reading slightly higher than the other columns (this indicates a board problem). Best done with a logic probe, but a DMM will work.

In regards to the switches that don't work it is most likely the switch is not working or a broken wire to the switch. In each column all of the switches will have two grn-xxx wires, except the last switch which will have only one grn-xxx wire. Ditto for the rows except with wht-xxx wires.

#3 9 years ago

P.S. - Very nice job of describing the problem and thanks for adding the switch matrix diagram. This is a great example for anyone having switch matrix problems of how to ask for help.

#4 9 years ago

Thanks for the kind words!

So, on your advice, I pulled out my scope to take some readings. I figured this would be better than a DMM.

This is what I found on a working column:
image-907.jpgimage-907.jpg

And this is what I found on column 6:

image-1.jpgimage-1.jpg

So it is clear to me the board is having issues on column 6. Any ideas on where the failure could be?

#5 9 years ago

Not sure on Data East, but on Williams manuals there's a page that provides a generic schematic of the column/row drivers. Then all you have to do is check the specific column you're concerned with. If you can't find anything post back here and I'll dig out a manual and give more specific directions. The following page may help also.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

#6 9 years ago

Have you isolated the problem to the board, as in disconnected the playfeild switches and jumped the pins to see if it is doing the same thing ? I had a recent problem where the diode was shorted to ground on one of my switches cause a similar problem. Otherwise on the board I would check the *going from memory* SIP resistor packs, the component that looks like a straight line with 9? legs somewhat in the middle of the board (as I recall they don't make the correct one anymore and you have to modify the replacement by cutting off one leg

#7 9 years ago

I do need to test with the PF disconnected. That would be a good step to verify the issue.

I would hate to start working on the board when it's just a part shorted to ground.

#8 9 years ago

I seen a similar problem and it was a ball trough switch broke

#9 9 years ago

Just disconnect the column connector and then check with your scope again. No need to jumper the pins, this will tell you whether it's the board or a playfield short.

I agree the SIP's often cause problems, but let's not jump there yet.

#10 9 years ago

Checked the board with the connector removed. It tested the same.

Looking at the schematics now but I don't really have starting point short of just checking all the components one by one.

#11 9 years ago

check the SIP resistor pack, compare each leg against the others and see if one or more have a different value

#12 9 years ago

See the attached image. You've already tested at point A. Proceed testing upstream at the other red dots: B, C, D and E. You can compare each reading to the green dots I placed.

Image3.jpgImage3.jpg
#13 9 years ago

I will give it a test when I get home and see what's what.

#14 9 years ago

Looks like the collector pin shows the fault.

That seems to fall in line with what we saw on the scope. I will replace the transistor and go from there unless anyone has advice otherwise.

#15 9 years ago

If you're saying the collector has a problem and the base reads properly then I agree. In other words, point B reads differently than the other B and C reads the same as the other C.

#16 9 years ago

Following up on this.

Replacing Q50 resolved the issue and we are back in business.

Thanks everyone!

#17 9 years ago

Congratulations on getting it solved. This post should be put up as a sticky to show that's it's really not that hard to troubleshoot a problem rather than just shotgunning it.

#18 9 years ago

Ha, I would be honored if my switch matrix issue was a sticky!

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Congratulations on getting it solved. This post should be put up as a sticky to show that's it's really not that hard to troubleshoot a problem rather than just shotgunning it.

That requires patience and reading though.

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