(Topic ID: 280798)
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Monster Bash
Williams, 1998
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It’s getting convincingly close but unless you try out a high end virtual pinball you’ll never understand.
Quoted from Coyote:.. No.
Sorry, noting 'virtual' is ever 'better than the real thing'.
Vantaa
No it’s not better and it never will be. I never understood why the ball is black in some virtual versions?
Also when you see virtual pinball in person, the flat 2d look is pretty bad.
These are great if you want to learn the rules for competition etc.
For some reason most builders end up bying a real pin eventually. I guess it’s a good gateway drug.
Pittsburgh, PA
Quoted from Jonosborne:It’s getting convincingly close but unless you try out a high end virtual pinball you’ll never understand.
I used to have a super high end virtual pin with all the bells and whistles running the same games you're showing. Yes it's nice crisp graphics but to say it could be better than real is ridiculous and no, it's not really close to real, it's definitely virtual.
That being said it's still really fun just to have something that feels close enough and a ton of games to play. It just left me wanting to play the real thing
Impressive, but of course it’s not as good as the real thing!
(I mean, would any person in his/her right mind ever think that robodildonics could come remotely close to providing the experience of making love to a real, live “analog” human being who can reciprocate?)
I’ve had hundreds of real pins. Nothing holds my attention like virtual pinball. I have a nice restored Monster Bash that hardly gets turns on but I play the v-pin daily. The 2D effect depends on the display. It’s definitely not the same and can never replace real pinball, but I think a lot of people are hard on v-pins because of playing a less than stellar example. I’ve had at least 5 other v-pins and they all sucked.
Quoted from ViperVS:No it’s not better and it never will be. I never understood why the ball is black in some virtual versions?
Also when you see virtual pinball in person, the flat 2d look is pretty bad.
These are great if you want to learn the rules for competition etc.
For some reason most builders end up bying a real pin eventually. I guess it’s a good gateway drug.
Virtual pinball is awesome and it definitely jas its place, but virtual pinball will never be even close to playing a real pinball machine.
Quoted from Thermionic:Impressive, but of course it’s not as good as the real thing!
(I mean, would any person in his/her right mind ever think that robodildonics could come remotely close to providing the experience of making love to a real, live “analog” human being who can reciprocate?)
Looks in your direction for some “Human Influx” 
0BD9D541-0CFD-4DFF-BF36-52D7F529B9E8 (resized).jpeg
Gilligan's Island
I am on the fence as I recently played a VP and reckon it is almost ( almost ) ready to be in my collection if not replace quite a few of them!
Quoted from Thermionic:Impressive, but of course it’s not as good as the real thing!
(I mean, would any person in his/her right mind ever think that robodildonics could come remotely close to providing the experience of making love to a real, live “analog” human being who can reciprocate?)
Remind me to NEVER buy a game from you! LOL
I had a 4k VP I decided to just try and see what I was missing .. it was gone within 5 days . Unfortunately having the real thing and going virtual just doesn’t work
Previous VP opportunities were really not up to par - the display lagged, there was no tactile feedback, the game physics and lighting just felt ... off. But while I haven’t played on in person, these recent examples seem to have a addressed a lot of those concerns. They don’t replace a real game, but getting an opportunity to play great simulations of a game you’d never otherwise get a chance to play seems like a win to me.
For example, I will NEVER pay $8k to get another TAF. That’s just insane. But half of that, to play simulations of 100 other games as well ? Might be worth it.
Toronto, ON
There was recently a slow motion video of a game playing that showed what actually happens in 1/100th of a second in a game and there was a surprising amount of weirdness going on, like the flipper rubbers jump off the flippers, or mechs move and flex slightly.
None of this is replicated in fake pinball. The physics of the real thing are just better.
Virtual Pinball is a fun approximation. Some of the fantasy tables in FX3 do things that aren't possible with real physics. The one thing a vpin can do that a real one cant, is take up less space for lots of pins.
I have a vpin I built, I still play it and its still fun. But if I had to choose between playing xmen on the new (to me) actual xmen pro I bought or playing it on the vpin, I'd play the real thing.
Has VP improved to the point where you can consistently do a live catch or a post pass? These were always an issue with virtual
Quoted from Jonosborne:It’s getting convincingly close but unless you try out a high end virtual pinball you’ll never understand.
So where’s 240hz then? 
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:They don’t replace a real game, but getting an opportunity to play great simulations of a game you’d never otherwise get a chance to play seems like a win to me.
For example, I will NEVER pay $8k to get another TAF. That’s just insane. But half of that, to play simulations of 100 other games as well ? Might be worth it.
This is the exactly the reason I ordered a 4K Vpin to go along my with my collection of real machines. There are so many tables I’m likely never to play in the wild but I can learn the basics of a game, shots and rules thru a virtual table, then decide if I’m interested in picking up the real thing.
Besides sometimes I just wanna play Big Juicy Melons without having to look at a melon crate!
Quoted from Briks-707:Besides sometimes I just wanna play Big Juicy Melons without having to look at a melon crate!
But that's the coolest part!
Virtual pinball will never be the same or better then real pinball as at the end of the day its a simulation of something that exists in the real world. Pinball is physical with real world mechs, features, buttons, pinballs, etc. Replicating the physical parts of pinball virtually is fake.
Virtual pinball is kinda like flight and racing sims which are fun and great learning tools but in no way replace the real deal.
Quoted from Only_Pinball:But that's the coolest part!
I agree but also the reason why I would never want one in my house, cool but unsightly.
Quoted from Coyote:.. No.
Sorry, noting 'virtual' is ever 'better than the real thing'.
I beg to differ. I today's covid world a trip on my vintage viewmaster is better than the real thing.
20200903_200024 (resized).jpgQuoted from captainadam_21:I beg to differ. In today's covid world a trip on my vintage viewmaster is better than the real thing. [quoted image]
Agreed! What system and mechanical force feedback did you have on your machine?
Quoted from delt31:I used to have a super high end virtual pin with all the bells and whistles running the same games you're showing. Yes it's nice crisp graphics but to say it could be better than real is ridiculous and no, it's not really close to real, it's definitely virtual.
That being said it's still really fun just to have something that feels close enough and a ton of games to play. It just left me wanting to play the real thing
Haha best comment ever!
Quoted from Thermionic:Impressive, but of course it’s not as good as the real thing!
(I mean, would any person in his/her right mind ever think that robodildonics could come remotely close to providing the experience of making love to a real, live “analog” human being who can reciprocate?)
It’s all about getting to the point where that framerate can match or exceed the real-life counterpart. You can see for yourself that the ball is extremely fluid. That is really what matters most during gameplay.
Quoted from Tuukka:If it has a limited resolution and frame rate, how can it be better than real thing, with "infinite" resolution and FPS?
Thinking about this, it would seem an incredibly fast refresh rate would be more important than a high resolution. I wonder if anyone HAS built a vp cab with a 240Hz display?
Was the V-Pin you played pretty realistic? What type of force feedback did it have?
Quoted from oldskool1969:I am on the fence as I recently played a VP and reckon it is almost ( almost ) ready to be in my collection if not replace quite a few of them!
Having a 4k v-pin means absolutely nothing. If you had a TV in it that is the reason it felt as sluggish as an unshopped machine. If the ball physics and response was questionable it’s because settings were incorrect and your gpu was lacking. Most people try it and give up because they don’t know how to optimize it. The purpose of this post is to ruffle feathers and make you question if you were really getting all you could out of that machine, or if you just happened to have a sub-par machine (99% of them out there).
Quoted from Oneangrymo:I had a 4k VP I decided to just try and see what I was missing .. it was gone within 5 days . Unfortunately having the real thing and going virtual just doesn’t work
Nintendo is always best! I have a hacked Wii U, hacked Switch, hacked SNES Classic and a hacked Nintendo 3DS. It doesn’t get any better!
Quoted from mrclean:This thread reminds me of the Big Bang Theory.... When Sheldon wants input Playstation 4 Vs X-Box One ; eventually
Bernadette says:
“I like the Wii”
If the virtual pin made the noises of the balls flying out everywhere when screen playfield is lifted, I'm in. 
I will always pay $8000 for an elite Addams because just like a high-end v-pik you can’t lose!
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Previous VP opportunities were really not up to par - the display lagged, there was no tactile feedback, the game physics and lighting just felt ... off. But while I haven’t played on in person, these recent examples seem to have a addressed a lot of those concerns. They don’t replace a real game, but getting an opportunity to play great simulations of a game you’d never otherwise get a chance to play seems like a win to me.
For example, I will NEVER pay $8k to get another TAF. That’s just insane. But half of that, to play simulations of 100 other games as well ? Might be worth it.
Accurate physics relate DIRECTLY to your gpu/cpu. If you have a less than stellar setup your physics will be trash in the virtual realm!
Quoted from jwilson:There was recently a slow motion video of a game playing that showed what actually happens in 1/100th of a second in a game and there was a surprising amount of weirdness going on, like the flipper rubbers jump off the flippers, or mechs move and flex slightly.
None of this is replicated in fake pinball. The physics of the real thing are just better.
That’s awesome! Did you go all out on your build? What kind of specs?
Quoted from Malenko:Virtual Pinball is a fun approximation. Some of the fantasy tables in FX3 do things that aren't possible with real physics. The one thing a vpin can do that a real one cant, is take up less space for lots of pins.
I have a vpin I built, I still play it and its still fun. But if I had to choose between playing xmen on the new (to me) actual xmen pro I bought or playing it on the vpin, I'd play the real thing.
That will depend greatly on your cpu/gpu. The better it is the better the physics, flipper response and overall responsiveness of the machine. Be sure to check out my CV video on Youtube because at the very end I show you some flipper pass physics. I’ll let you be the judge there but I think it’s incredible. As stated, a video can not properly convey feel and response. This has to be experienced in-person to truly understand/appreciate. That is why I can relate to each of these comments about virtual pinball not being that good, because in most cases it is half-assed and awful!
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Has VP improved to the point where you can consistently do a live catch or a post pass? These were always an issue with virtual
4k 240 hz is not a thing yet but you’d better believe the second it is I will be making that upgrade! It will be incredible. 8k 240 hz is what I am dreaming off someday. Haha!
Quoted from chuckwurt:So where’s 240hz then?
If you put all the mechanical objects from a real machine in yours then you will start to see the light bulb go off in your head. This is not a wooden box with buttons and screens. It can be much more immersive than that. If you are building a machine with the intent of just sticking a tv in a box you are probably never going to appreciate virtual pinball!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Virtual pinball will never be the same or better then real pinball as at the end of the day its a simulation of something that exists in the real world. Pinball is physical with real world mechs, features, buttons, pinballs, etc. Replicating the physical parts of pinball virtually is fake.
Virtual pinball is kinda like flight and racing sims which are fun and great learning tools but in no way replace the real deal.
VP has it's place in a Pinball collectors collection (space savings being the number 1 attraction) and NO, it does not replace real pinball, but damn if it does'nt "Supplement" it like a mofo.
I'll give you a little late night scenario- Your playing your nice restored Black Knight 2000 with some friends when one says "I heard there was an older machine that this is based on? And you say, yes, the OG BK, want to try that one? You walk over to your VP cabinet scroll through all your tables, punch up OG BK and take a spin on this table... What your friends will get is, wow, I see the similarity, and the progression from this machine to BK2K, what a great shooter, no wonder it was popular back in 1980.
Now was it 100% like playing an OG '80 BK? no, but it is definitely "close enough" these days to let you get your nostalgia on, have some fun, and share all the experiences of the old stuff, some of which you may never actually see in the wild, and I think it really adds to the pin playing experience. Is it like the real machine?, NO, but it is close enough now to make you feel good ruling the universe, because one thing every pin head loves is having an awesome game where you walk away, adrenaline pumping, rapid breathing, and a true sense of accomplishment. VP can give you that feeling now and it feels pretty damn good.
Quoted from Jonosborne:4k 240 hz is not a thing yet but you’d better believe the second it is I will be making that upgrade! It will be incredible. 8k 240 hz is what I am dreaming off someday. Haha!
Why do you need 4K? Just use a 1080p 240hz tv.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Why do you need 4K? Just use a 180p 240hz tv.
I used a 1080p 60hz 37" Visio... it's not "super fluid" but gets the job done. Building a VP cabinet is pricey enough with the gaming PC and the cabinet hardware, 4k is not needed but it looks good. Some of us have an advantage of being a maker, which goes a long way when building a VP cab.
Nope. Physics are not even close even with VPX. Sorry but they are not. The POV is fixed which looks cool when you are shooting it on a camera in a fixed position. The illusion breaks when you start moving your head. Every game I have seen is waaaaay too bright like it is surrounded by pinstadiums. It doesn't help that a screen only emits lights while playfield can emit AND reflect light. Simulated lighting like flashers is decent but does not compare to light coming from the actual point on the playfield as opposed to the perimeter. Ball looks weird at times like it is too large. The width to length ratio of pinball playfields vary but universally are longer compared to 16:9 playfield. The POV is used to compensate for this but the screen is still shorter so it breaks the illusion.
Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Virtual pinball is great. I was part of a small group that pushed towards actual vpin cabinets and helped with the development of the original hyperpin front end. I would still like one in my house one day but I have a hard time choosing one over a real game. Will probably pick up an Arcade1up AFM and put it in a place where a normal pin cannot fit in my game room.
Quoted from Jonosborne:That’s awesome! Did you go all out on your build? What kind of specs?
I built it a couple years ago and have done minor updates. Plan to do Gingerballs 3.0 in a full sized cab with an analog launcher (like a pinscape).
i5-3570K, 16 GB RAM, GTX 1650Ti , SSDs, just an IPAC for buttons but a saint smart strip with 7 solenoids and a pin2dmd. 22" playfield and a 17"(?) 4:3 backglass monitor.
Quoted from Coyote:.. No.
Sorry, noting 'virtual' is ever 'better than the real thing'.
So the 30 or so Virtual Machines I have running on a cluster of 3 physical ESXI servers and a SAN isn't better than running 30 physical server machines?
A Virtual Private Network is also pretty great too
Quoted from Jonosborne:I will always pay $8000 for an elite Addams because just like a high-end v-pik you can’t lose!
It's just too much! The last one I bought and sold for $4500 and that was only 3 or 4 years ago! It's craziness
Quoted from Malenko:I built it a couple years ago and have done minor updates. Plan to do Gingerballs 3.0 in a full sized cab with an analog launcher (like a pinscape).
i5-3570K, 16 GB RAM, GTX 1650Ti , SSDs, just an IPAC for buttons but a saint smart strip with 7 solenoids and a pin2dmd. 22" playfield and a 17"(?) 4:3 backglass monitor.
[quoted image]So the 30 or so Virtual Machines I have running on a cluster of 3 physical ESXI servers and a SAN isn't better than running 30 physical server machines?
A Virtual Private Network is also pretty great too
I had to re-read this a couple of times; I originally thought you were saying you build a virtual pin using a 3-host cluster! LOL
You're just gonna get a bunch of haters who have never played anything closer to the level of build you have claiming that they've tried VP and "it sucks!"
What you've built looks truly amazing and I'd love to try it out sometime with an open mind.
Quoted from Jonosborne:Was the V-Pin you played pretty realistic? What type of force feedback did it have?
I couldn't tell you, but if I remember it was an Aussie company who made it Retro play
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