New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 222461)

Monster Bash Remake (MBr) Owners Club (with Poll & Pics)

By MrSanRamon

2 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 7,336 posts
  • 566 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by Gorgar666
  • Topic is favorited by 238 Pinsiders


Linked Games

Topic poll

“Monster Bash Remake (MBr) Owners Club (with Poll & Pics)”

  • I'm in on a CE 56 votes
  • I'm in on a SE 136 votes
  • I'm in on a LE 351 votes
  • I'm out for now 169 votes

(712 votes)

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,219 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

switchadjust (resized).JPG
IMG_7760 (resized).jpg
C9015F30-D3D4-4C75-BE6C-B1517B0B8383 (resized).jpeg
3B2343DA-4684-40A2-8136-E2DAE91FFD86 (resized).jpeg
64BB01D8-6D8A-4A57-8673-40D373E0FC35 (resized).jpeg
D39232D6-697C-43B7-92B9-EFBED29971EC (resized).jpeg
08D6E7F1-D74E-4258-92EA-2FA23104B6F7 (resized).jpeg
B9C05A8F-F5F8-40B6-B2B5-E87874622BBE (resized).jpeg
CB33948C-B73C-4D92-AAF4-C2F6EC291CA9 (resized).png
set up (resized).jpg
15986342339073730565901084968383 (resized).jpg
64D79318-C165-42A8-BDD5-E50CC8C2AFB8 (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

3 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #4230 Potential fix for SDTM from scoop. Posted by Reznnate (1 year ago)

Post #5928 Frankenstein switch adjustment tips Posted by MGM2 (1 year ago)

Post #6026 Links to STDM Tweaks Posted by Oaken (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ptownpin.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#71 2 years ago
Quoted from andrewket:

I had every intention of buying MBr. I have MMR and AFMR and enjoy them both. I ordered both without having played either, and I’ve never played MB.
However, I’ve recently acquired an IJ (great game) and Deadpool arrives next week. I’m getting close to being out of space.
Is MB a sufficiently great game to have in a collection that already has MMR and AFMR? I know, I should find a way to play it and decide for myself, but there aren’t any MBs around that I’m aware of (DC area). I’ve had good luck staying in the top 20 pins rated here on pinside as well as SDTM’s ratings.

yes its different and a very fun game. I have both MMRLE and AFMRLE and although those two games are different they have many similarities. I know several people that sold one or the other due to this.

#78 2 years ago

Couldn't agree more...I suspect its gonna be another 3-6 months before they actually start shipping LE's ...

#82 2 years ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

I'm ok with that. I just want pics and pricing so my distributor can take an official deposit and I can start budgeting. I've been ballparking at $12,000 cdn for a LE seeing as Afm LE is usually around $11-11,500 cdn nib

My guess is the LE will be $8500 US +/- a few hundred....AFRMLE's were $8K

#86 2 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

$10,000 by Christmas...
OK, bad joke but these games however fun to play or nice are really becoming expensive.

Couldn't agree more...I suspect the sales/pricing will be in line with AFMRLE. I made the mistake of buying an AFMRLE with a deposit and waiting 6 months to get the game. As it turns out they were available NIB and putting a big deposit wasn't really necessary. Selling 1000 LE's is a lot of games, and I highly doubt it will sell out day 1. If they choose to price closer to $9K than sales will be much slower...

#88 2 years ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

Idk about down there but I can still get nib afmre le from several distributors here I Canada.

Not a surprise....they took a long time to sell out all the AFMRLE's (unlike when MMRLE was introduced)....I think those sold quick not only because it was a great game, but the remake concept was new and exciting....there are a lot of new great games on the market so if they price MBRLE at around the same as AFM than they'll probably get the same absorption rate (or possibly better)...if not then sales will slow a lot, and LE's will be available for a long time. CGC did a nice job of adding value to the AFMRLE (as compared to very little value on MMRLE)...I suspect they'll add even more to MBRLE? I'm hoping for a killer topper (like AFMRLE), game blades, non reflective glass, exterior volume control, headphone jack, upgraded sound system, armor, etc....

1 month later
#140 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I was told $8300 shipped

exactly what I paid for my AFMRLE....$8300 delivered

#142 1 year ago

If they don't start building until November (and they usually don't start with the SE and CE versions) its gonna be 3-6 months before LE's start shipping.

#144 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I bet they'll crank them out fast! They've had months to get assemblies prep'd and ready to go. Probably 100 classics and then LE's. I bet we see LE's by December

I'll take that bet

#145 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

If they don't start building until November (and they usually start with the SE and CE versions) its gonna be 3-6 months before LE's start shipping.

#243 1 year ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

I find it interesting that most of the Pinsider's posting in this thread have many years already in the hobby.
So maybe the primary market for this, is the nostalgic seasoned hobbyist. And maybe it has less appeal to the newer players that lack the soft nostalgia for the pin? I'm still in <1 yr. But own 4 pins now.
I've been in on the LE. Just having second thoughts, comparing it to other pins. And rumors of pins/companies coming next year. Is this the one_ I want. Or maybe a jjPOTC. Or a magic girl.
Kinda grinding over this for 2 days now.

I highly doubt you'll be disappointed.....MB is a very fun pin....I put about 50 games on my buddies pin (fully restored original MB), and its always been my favorite of all time. He has about 40 high end pins in his collection, and this has always been my fav. The new and improved MBRLE will only be better. I can't wait to get this in the house.

#253 1 year ago
Quoted from Blacksun:

Same, I was told end of Nov...

I was told the same timeframe, but I have a difficult time believing it .... I was also told that "legacy" buyers jump to the front of the line ....

#256 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

That's me...#34!

Same here #593

#258 1 year ago

so they can build 75 games a week?

#297 1 year ago
Quoted from SkaterVet:

Stoked to be in for an LE. I'm usually more of a purist, but my thought is you are receiving quite a bit of value for not a lot of extra money compared to the SE. If I end up not liking the art engraved lock down bar, I can always replace it. Similarly, if I don't like the topper, I can remove it. I could likely sell the topper to someone that bought an SE and make up the difference in what I paid for the LE. I'm still pretty sure I'll like it all. I'm not looking for a debate here, this is merely to offer an idea for those that may be torn between ordering an LE or an SE.

Great choice....not sure if MBRLE is the same as AFMRLE, but if it is theres an additional board that controls the topper.

#310 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballHog:

Comes with a protector although the protectors at Expo took a beating. CGC assured me they would look at the problem and make sure the protectors would hold up before they start shipping.

If they were smart they would call Cliff and have him make the protectors....

#312 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Mb sld have a mantis and cliffy style protector used at the same time as the scoop takes a beating. Just a cliffy gets bent quickly but with mantis and cliffy its very solid

Makes point was Cliff's protectors are typically much better than the manufacturers can make themselves .... a prime example of this was the protectors JJP made for my DILE....they were crap so I swapped with Cliffy's....

#321 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I wish I had known this. I just ordered the Cliffy as well as the Mantis protectors for my MbrLE

I would keep them just in case...who knows the Cliffy/Mantis solution might be better in the long run?

#366 1 year ago

They defiantly don't build in order. My understanding is that the first LE's will go to Legacy buyers who are defined as customers who have the MMRLE or AFMRLE....they'll build matching serial numbers first....Once their done with legacy's they start shipping the balance of the LE' least thats what I was told by my distributor.

#375 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

I don't understand. Why would you want to pick the serial number or match it to something you have? I guess that's an LE thing that people covet?
I couldn't care less what number the game was, just that its fun to play.

Generally I agree as I could care only reason is that I get the game early (at least in theory)....

#389 1 year ago
Quoted from LoganJK:

My Medieval Madness came with a working coin mech.

so did mine

#391 1 year ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Was yours a CGC build? My MMr had no coin mechs and was a Stern build.

Not sure

#427 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdog50:

email received today from PPS stated "it looks like all number match games will start to ship the week after Thanksgiving" and asked for final payment

why would u make the final payment so far in advance from the game actually shipping? 2 days yes....2 weeks no way....2 weeks can easily turn into 4

#429 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

That's just how it is man. I had a deposit on Alien for 2 years, now that sucks.

I hear ya, but I wouldn't pay until the game is about to ship....

#435 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I was paid in full for my MMr for almost 2 years before I received my machine. A few weeks is nothing compared to that.

I totally understand that all distributors/manufacturers want your money ASAP (of course they do). I just can't get my head around paying for a game months, or multiple weeks before its actually being shipped. In the case of CGC they are clearly legit so you'll eventually get your product so theres very little risk. Out of curiosity when are distributors required to pay for games?

#437 1 year ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

I believe all deposits to CGC from Distributors were due on Nov 9th

I understand deposits....what about final payment for the game? My guess is distributors are required to pay upon shipping?

#450 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Our form in Australia states full payment due 2 weeks before shipping. Then we wait 2 or more months. This is what you have to do if you want one. First lot are built to order.

two weeks isn't entirely unreasonable....waiting an additional 2 months is painful....In the states I suspect many ship directly from the factory to customers? my real question is when do the distributors have to pay the manufacturers?

#454 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Forking out our hard earned dollars and then waiting for 2 months is frustrating. Our distro has always been entirely honest with us. I feel payment is due (to CGC) in full for all machines before they ship. Plenty of people do not want to pay for their machines until they absolutely have to, leaving the financial burden on the distro.

I totally get that full payment should be due prior to shipment. We have it pretty easy in the states as shipping typically doesn't take longer than a week. I just don't understand why in the USA full payment is due several weeks prior to shipment? especially if your paying with a CC or wiring the $. They just need to get paid before the game actually ships.

#456 1 year ago
Quoted from drummermike:

I paid two weeks ago for my SE.


#464 1 year ago
Quoted from Plunger069:

Just paid my balance for the SE. Should be awesome!

Nice....Did they give u a ship date?

#495 1 year ago

I have number matched LE on order...I'm not holding my breath that I'll get mine by xmas...if i had to guess it would be after the first of the year. Things always slow down over the holidays.

#514 1 year ago
Quoted from gripwhip:

I spoke with Sara at Planetary Pinball. There is some hope that non-matching numbers will ship prior to Christmas. I thought I would pass it along. Obviously, there are no guarantees.

They always say that I'd be shocked if I got my matching game by January....

1 week later
#668 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

This target decals are lame (the “phantom flip” ones in particular)... the flipper decals are nice though.

I purchased these for my TZ, and the quality was average at best....

#689 1 year ago

Just fair warning to all....CGC is great at game related customer support, but when it comes to addressing play field or cabinet issues they are NOT....

#697 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I know more than 1 person has their MB...surely if it was an issue we'd have heard about it by now.
I'm not seeing whatever it is - just that main pic by the Alice cooper pic?
This? That's just the artwork...
[quoted image]

Wow this is really bad....lets hope CGC doesn't put out games like this? If they do it will be a real battle to get them swapped out!

#773 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

They are very poorly made. Cheap artwork applied to poorly cut 3M double sided tape(the gray tape that you would use on automotive trim).
I design/machine pinball mods on the side. I would be ashamed to try to sell something like this to the public.
I filed for a refund via epay.

I second this....I ordered these for my TZ and they sucked

#781 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

The ebay seller is also being an @sshole when it comes to getting a refund. He wants me to take a picture to show him what is wrong with the decals.

I didn't bother contacting the guy...the product was crap....I used a few of the good ones, and threw the balance in the trash. I chalked it up to a learning experience....never again order from the guy

#784 1 year ago
Quoted from BillyPilgrim:

Yes, a low number.

great that you might be getting by matching number is in the 500's so I always figured I'd get it sometime in January or February. CGC makes great games, but they rarely deliver on time....who knows maybe I'll be surprised this time?

#836 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Not sure, I already put an order in, but one distro who was out did say they'd been told they might get more to sell in 3-4 months. I can't speak to if that is true - but my assumption is that they didn't put up all 1250 to sell immediately - and by batches I meant they have X number they are going to build in the run, and pre-sale those, then switch to a different run, then put up another X number to build, and put those up for pre-sale. I could be completely wrong though.

If MBRLE is anything like AFMRLE they will be available for a long well over a year....

#854 1 year ago
Quoted from fanuminski:

well - they look like they're cut out (poorly) with scissors. I'm going to just eat it... may use the Frank and Drac ones -
you won't notice how poorly cut they are from playing distance. I'm more concerned with how they will hold
up on the targets and not spit out pieces of that foam or backer material that was used.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Those look awful....same issue I had with my TZ decals...they were crap

#883 1 year ago
Quoted from Blacksun:

I spoke to my disty and they told me the LE's are starting to ship on the 13th...

Its great CGC is getting these games out the door. With every remake they seem to step it up a notch, which is nice to see. I think I'll be lucky to get my matching LE by end of January....I think getting all matching games out the door my xmas was a bit optimistic....

#885 1 year ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Let me live my fantasy of waking up Christmas morning, racing downstairs to see a wonderful shiny new pinball machine wedged under the tree... the poor thing all covered in pine needles, pine tar dripping all over the powdercoat, heirloom brass ornaments scratching up the cabinet side art... a puddle of dog piss under one leg where Fido felt like releaving himself this morning and a suspicious looking dookie that smells like someone crapped all the cinnamon Santa cookies they predated last night too.
Thanks Santa, it was he most wonderful Christmas morning of my life.

Dreams are free right I love your optimism

#891 1 year ago
Quoted from DJNOEL30:

Does anyone know if the standard invisible glass that fits on Stern machines will fit MBr?

Yep fit my AFMRLE and MMRLE

#895 1 year ago
Quoted from Blacksun:

Do the LE's come with any type of invisaglass?

Nope....$300 JJ

#930 1 year ago
Quoted from fanuminski:

still waiting for word on my SE. I'm getting a bit impatient on the delay.
paid in full almost a month ago... wonder how many others are still waiting for
their CE or SE

wow thats frustrating...I never pay in full unless my game is shipping in the next couple days

#935 1 year ago
Quoted from BryanBPH:

Quick question regarding total price / shipping on the MBr. I ordered an LE and put my $1000 deposit down with the expectation I'll pay the remaining $6999 when it's ready. I would like to know from you guys if any of the distributers are offering any type of cash discount, or are charging more if you pay with a credit card? I paid the original $1000 via paypal using the option that doesn't have any fees, and I expect the distributer would like me to do the same for the remaining balance, essentially making it a cash deal. I inquired about paying with my credit card and was told it would increase the price slightly. Should I expect free shipping if I'm paying cash? Just curious what you all are dealing with relating to total price, shipping costs, etc. You don't have to mention any specific distributors, but I'm just interested in what other are seeing before I part with the rest of the money I owe on my LE (whenever it eventually is ready LOL)

I put my deposit down with a credit card, and plan to pay the balance with the same card....I was told the game was $8300 delivered whether u pay cash (wire transfer), check or I chose the cc option

#944 1 year ago
Quoted from fanuminski:

My distributor had to pay in full for a block of so many games to get into CGC's "Q" so to speak... so I had to pay in full
in order to get into that "block" of games.
I was told that they (SE's) were delayed due to some part shortage -
and that it could be mere days or a week or two delay yet.
My distributor has to wait until he is told they are ready before he/she
can give them shipping instructions (mine is being drop shipped)
That was last Friday.

Really? I'm surprised the distributor has to pay 100% just to get in the Q?

#999 1 year ago
Quoted from BillyPilgrim:

I bought MMrLE and AFMrLE NIB, ordered both the day they were announced, both number matched. I’m now being told I need to prove this or I’m out of the number match club. Annoying. I sent in my receipts, which of course were just emails from my distributor (not the same one I’m using for MBr).

I got a call yesterday about this very issue. CGC claimed my games weren't registered. Whats funny is that they have sent me several parts under warranty over the years....clearly they were both registered.....I had to send in proof of purchase....

#1062 1 year ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

I am in on an MBRLE, macthed serial # to my AFMRLE #871. On Nov 29 my distributor asked for payment in full by this Friday Dec 14. Stating that “Your Monster Bash Limited Edition game is going to be ready soon - LE numbers matching games will be starting in the next few weeks and will be done in numerical order”

Thats number is in the 500's and I haven't been contacted yet (except to provide proof of purchase) bet is there is little chance I'll see this game before xmas? very surprised you've been asked for full payment already

#1066 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

# doesn't dictate when it was built....

I don't think it matters when it was built. I was told they are starting at #1 and going up....

#1069 1 year ago
Quoted from jarch:

Here's the official info I was provided by my distributor:
Original owners of MMrLE or AFMrLE who wish to purchase MBrLE will be able to secure the same LE serial number on their MBr. In the rare case that a customer purchased a MMrLE and NOT and AFMrLE; the customer who purchased the AFMrLE will take priority in the Serial Number Matching Program. We will offer the MMrLE customer his choice of an alternative number (if it is available).
All LE customers who qualify can make this request through any authorized CGC Pinball Dealer.
All customers will need to be sure that they have sent in their LE warranty card by Friday, 11/9/2018.

I was told the exact same thing along with the build order....I was told they will start from 1 and end at if you were #1 u got your game first, and if you were 1000 u got yours last...all number matching LE's will be built before the non matching LE's....when it was actually built has nothing to do with it.

#1078 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

As the owner of MMrLE 985 looks like I will be at the tail end of the matching number games. Guessing delivery by Christmas is pretty much out of the question at this point. So much for originally being told delivery in November (which I never really believed anyhow, heh).
Despite asking my distributor several times I've still not been told if I will be getting a matching number game (they claim no response from CGC on the matter). I don't necessarily care about the matching number, I am more interested in getting the game sooner

I'm totally with you...the only reason I know anything is that my distributor called me asking for proof of purchase since CGC couldn't verify my number on my AFMRLE. The odd thing is my game is already registered since we've had to deal with several warranty issues. I'm with u in that I could care less about the number. I'm in the mid 500's and I think theres very little chance I'll actually see my game before the end of the year. I'd be irritated if I paid in full weeks ago with no game in sight...apparently CGC ships the pin to my distributor and then he ships directly to me....

#1109 1 year ago
Quoted from Soltic:

Doug I have opened a ticket as our protector is getting hammered and starting to deform.
Would you be able to respond for advice?
Shoulde we be tightening the screws so as to try to make the protector fit tighter to the pf and cause less distortion?
[quoted image]

I'm curious as to where its getting all banged up? Is your game on location? If so how many game plays? Pics?

#1112 1 year ago
Quoted from Soltic:

On location?
LOL no, protector is getting messed up only after a weekend of play at home.
Pics if I have time or CGC requests.
Others should be noticing by now too, these are not like Cliffy's.

Thanks....I live close to Cliff so it sounds like I need to pay him a visit.....My bet is their remedy will be to send u another protector?

#1133 1 year ago
Quoted from Soltic:

Side is dented near back at scoop.
Black around scoop in areas is not blackline artwork but shadow where the protector is lifting / defirming.
[quoted image]

Thanks for sharing the interesting to see how CGC responds. In order to tighten down the protector (2 screws) do you need to remove the large board below the play field?

#1138 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Got confirmation from my distributor that I am in the number matching program to coordinate with my MMrLE (figured it was unlikely someone with AFMrLE had the same high number (985) AND asked to be matched, but you never know).
I was also just told shipping out this week or next week. Won't be long now!

Thats great to hear....I'm in the mid 500's and I haven't been told anything ....yet

#1142 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I always take shipping time frame quotes with a grain of salt. If I get the game by the end of the month, great, but I am really expecting early January

you and me both...I was thinking end of January due to the holidays...

#1168 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

well in order can't be right - I'm 575 and nadda

well I'm in the mid 500's and nada on my end as well....

#1169 1 year ago
Quoted from jarch:

Great news - I was just contacted by my distributor (Automated Services - to PIF. LE is ready to ship in a few days (~#800 range). I was settled that this would happen in January based on forum comments, but maybe Santa comes through? Worth waiting for either way

I hope thats true, but a little surprised I haven't been asked for my final payment (I'm in the mid 500's)....maybe they decided not to build in chronological order after all?

#1182 1 year ago
Quoted from andrewket:

CGC clearly has an issue with their warranty registration mechanism. I emailed the card for my AFMRLE in October and my distro reached out in early December to say I needed to register it. I was able to find the email in my sent items folder and resend it with the time stamps and they fixed their records. Others have had warranty repairs / parts sent and are still told they need to register (again).
In the big scheme of things it’s not a big deal, but it’s a bit disheartening that they could have administrative issues on such a simple thing. Hopefully it’s because they’re all engineers cranking out awesome pins

I had the same issue with CGC. Not only was my game registered, but they had provided warranty service multiple times yet they needed confirmation I was the original owner....

#1201 1 year ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Well seeing the LE gets you two years of warranty, I'm hoping I won't need to fight for two years with their warranty validation system... who ever is in charge of warranties at CGC... hello? McFly? Think, McFly... you wouldn't want to have to deal with ME for the next 2 years would you? You're new here, so I'm going ro cut you a little slack. So why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?

I never had any issues what so ever on warranty issues with CGC....that being said they clearly have administration issues....

#1224 1 year ago

pinstadium product looks pretty nice, but its not $250 nice....I just added spot lights from comet on my WOZ and TZ....worked perfect...

#1250 1 year ago
Quoted from Ray_Ayala:

Start shipping those to the States for $100 and you’d be a pretty popular guy!

I couldn't agree more.....

#1252 1 year ago
Quoted from Robertstone0407:

iPhones cost hundred dollars to make and sell for 1300. As long as people pay it price won't change

what iPhone have u paid $1300 for?

#1289 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Man I wonder what the story is with the protector? Do the CGC games come with real Cliffys, or are they a CGC special? The thin line protector seems like it’s actually a better protector than the original one

CGC does their own thing....JJP went down the same path and build shitty protectors as well....I was really hoping these would hold up, but apparently thats not the case

#1305 1 year ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

LOL. Nice try. The GI is off in the before pic. Another fake before pic. Who else is tired of these fake before/after Pinstadium comparison pics in every other thread? No truth in advertising. Dishonest shills everywhere. I think it’s long overdue for the mods to start deleting these scam posts and moderating these shills.

Nice catch....

#1310 1 year ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

Can anyone confirm swapping out the protector for a mantis / cliffy combo voids the warranty?

Thats a great question....I can't imagine it would, but who the hell knows....clearly this is an issue with CGC, and we all know they are great at supporting warranty issues with small stuff (broken plastics, etc....), but will run when theres play field or cabinet issues

#1367 1 year ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Why? What would you have them do?

There is almost a 100% chance they won't do anything....CGC is great at fixing minor stuff...when it comes to play field and cabinet issues they have a reputation of doing regards to the blemishes I don't think most people would even notice

#1371 1 year ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

The distributor business model is also a way of insulating itself from these kinds of manufacturing defects when the ultimate use of the machine is and was historically to provide a means of making a living by providing POS (point of sale, not piece of shit) entertainment. You could run a 1” gash down the side of the cabinet and your customer is not going to look at it and say “Nah, I don’t think I want to play THIS machine, look at the cabinet art for petes sake...”
If this happened back in the day, like a cabinet got forked during shipment, The distributor would offer the operator a box of lamps and a handful of playfield rubber, and the operator would tip his hat and the machine would go on site...

Yes and No...all my interaction on CGC games (MMMRLE, AFMRLE) have been directly with the factory....the distributor plays zero role when theres an issue. At least thats my experience.....I suspect the only distributor that has any real clout with CGC is Planetary? There were a few customers with play field and cabinet issues on AFMRLE and CGC basically told them to pound basically were all rolling the dice that those two items are in great shape out of the box.

#1377 1 year ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

ptownpin, I am ready to recieve said load of salt and have plenty of room to pack it if there are any issues with my machine’s pf or cabinet. I even paid $8000 + shipping for the opportunity!

I hear ya....I did the same thing If u have a cabinet issue their corrective action will be to send u new decals. If you have a play field issue their response will be get over it if its anything else they'll be very supportive ... if u sell your machine after 3 months they won't honor the warranty (or so I'm told)

#1382 1 year ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Who is the best distributor to reach out to on one of these? I'd like to get an LE.

If I was you I would call Planetary....they seem to have the most clout with CGC, and u might get your game earlier than the others.

#1399 1 year ago
Quoted from JHPSWE:

Wrong! The support is great and they even call directly to me on my MMr playfield issue. I got a new one shipping to Sweden.

congrats, but I'm not wrong....there are several documented play field and cabinet issues that were not addressed....I'm happy you got your play field, and I never said that their support wasn't good....I would say its great if its not something like a cabinet or play field....

#1403 1 year ago
Quoted from fanuminski:

pics of my SE with side decals from :
Decals for vintage and modern pinballs.
(I was very impressed with these decals - I think they are superb!)
played about a dozen games -some quick thoughts:
** mosh pit protector already dinged up a lot( i do have a mantis&cliffy when needed)
**lighting for me with my crap overhead can lights off due to glare requires spot lights
for lower area imo. ill probably put in lights
** overwhelmed by all the adjustments that canbe done - i spent 1/2 hour playing around and pushing
the wrong buttons too many times. time to read the manual. lol[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Those side blades look nice

#1444 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Looks like my LE should be delivered tomorrow morning (pending any issues during the final legs of it's transport)!!

what number LE ?

#1446 1 year ago
Quoted from Nytewatch33:

I still am not 100% clear on how all the shipping/numbering order works. Everyone keeps asking "What number LE" when someone announces their LE is shipping. But I thought it was clarified they don't build and ship them in numerical order? Doesn't it work like this... a) distributor A, B and C get 30, 20, and 10 LE number match allotments. b) buyers go to distributor A, B, and C and place their orders and share their # of their AFMLe so the numbers match c) CGC sends a note to the distributors "collect payment. We are starting to build LE number matches. Send us your payments and numbers for your sold unit d) CGC stamps the numbers on the assembly line with the appropriate submitted number. On the same day they could stamp #5, #200, and #786 right in a row on the assembly line. D) they tell Distributor A that #200 is coming, and Distributor B that #5 is coming, and Distributor C that #786 is coming. E) distributors tell their customers F) customer with #200 posts first "Hey my unit is shipping! G) customer with #5 says "Weird - I'm #5 and I didn't get notice yet. Shouldn't I have been first?
That's a very long example, but I'm just trying to determine if I understand this correctly, or if I'm off base here.

Good question: What I was told was that CGC was building the matching LE's first, which appears to be accurate. I was then told by my distributor they were starting at #1 and going up in order so whoever had AFMRLE 1000 would be the last off the LE number matching line. I'm having my doubts thats the case as it appears to be all over the place especially since your #5 and they are delivering numbers that are clearly higher. Possibly what they did was prioritize distributors, and are just building their allotment first? Who knows at this point.

#1448 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Matching number 985. Order through Automated.

awesome....congrats...clearly what i was told is completely untrue....

#1637 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I've been paid in full on a matching #LE since Nov. 15th. Not a peep from PPS on when it'll ship.
I was told that my machine should be in the 1st batch or 2.
I'm thinking about asking for a refund.

WOW.....thats ridiculous....did they request the payment in full?

#1660 1 year ago

Clearly they promoted this feature for the SE and LE versions....its actually listed on their spec sheet "improved decoration on play field monsters" nice to see some comparison pics of CE, SE and LE versions

#1665 1 year ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I think the only difference between the figures is supposed to be the detailing, which just means they took 2 minutes to paint each figure with a 1” brush instead of just 30 seconds with a sharpie pen. The figures themselves are all from the same molds, because paying for multiple injection molds per monster is plain nuts, if they didn't just reuse the original molds if they still exist. I am not worried, if the monsters suck real bad, they will get remade by somebody.

I completely nice to see what the CE monsters look like versus the SE/LE....It really has nothing to do with game play, but with when buying the LE you pay for all the bells and whistles, which clearly include the custom monsters ....the one's in their marketing brochures look really nice...I guess my expectation is they would be similar in the SE/LE games.....

#1673 1 year ago
Quoted from netman63129:

I agree, the figurines are pretty similar to the original MB IMO. I would have preferred something like this...
After all, they are in a Rock Band
[quoted image]

Those look only expectation is that they look like what they publicized....nothing more .... nothing less

#1706 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhorn1:

To me, MMR plays like shit compared to the og otherwise I would have bought one. Afmr there is still some difference but it is very very close to og. I haven't played mbr yet but based on afmr I'm confident it will also play very close to the original and ordered a LE. I've owned original afm and mb in they past. Never been able to afford a MM though.

Is this a joke? I had a restored MM and a MMRLE sitting right next to each other for six months....they are EXACTLY the same game. To make a statement that the remakes play like shit is just a reality every game plays a little different...

#1710 1 year ago
Quoted from LoganJK:

Can you explain why you think they are so bad?
I own a MMR that I have over 1000 plays on. I also have a MM on site near me that I get to play on a regular basis. The only major difference I noticed was my stock flipper strength was WAY higher than the original. After adjusting that my remake plays almost identical to the original on site.
If there is a flipper delay on the remakes it is too small for me to notice.
I think the remakes are beautiful and can't wait for my MBLE.

I highly doubt the guy has a logical explanation

#1796 1 year ago
Quoted from vwallat99:

I'm getting tired of the empty spot in my gameroom.. Anybody in the unmatched category get any word? I talked with Sara briefly and they said they would have a better idea later in the week. Anyone in the matching category still waiting on their game??

I'm in the mid 500's and I was told two payment is due next week....

#1800 1 year ago
Quoted from vwallat99:

Man it seemed like only a couple weeks ago I paid in full already.. Wait a minute that was mid November lol ugh so frustrating!

I'd be frustrated as theory they are building these in order, but I was told last week that they are jumping numbers in order to make shipping to distributors more efficient, which actually makes sense....

#1887 1 year ago
Quoted from Ricochet:

Please check this link... I've made several different logos...
320x80 is pretty limiting in terms of what you can do

These are great...thanks for sharing

#1904 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

Yes. I like my games cranked up. It's probably why I was one of only a couple of guys to complain about the sound.

wow I'm impressed....I have my AFMRLE set at 5 and it seems loud

#1949 1 year ago
Quoted from andrewket:

Or better yet, pinball machines should really have built in WiFi or Bluetooth at this point. Many of the PCs being used have it and are disabled.
Internet access would open up several possibilities in addition to easy code updates. Regional / National / Global leaderboards comes to mind. Virtual tournaments, etc.

I couldn't agree more....makes total sense

#1987 1 year ago

On December 26th my distributor requested final payment for my matching LE (in the mid 500's). At the time he said the game was being shipped within the next couple weeks. I haven't heard anything yet so I doubt it ships on time, but only time will tell....CGC makes a great product, but they are rarely on schedule...

#1994 1 year ago
Quoted from Wildcat_33:

Similar story for me except my PIF date was 11/26 and have a higher matching number.

Thats very frustrating that distributors would request full payment so my opinion its total BS. Mine was reasonable assuming the game ships soon.

#1996 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I was asked to pay in full on Nov 14th. PIF the next day. I have a matching LE # in the 400's.

Have u received the game? I think I'm number 569, and I was told my game would ship no later than this week

#1999 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

It's supposed to ship tomorrow, (but I doubt ir).

Hope so....

#2050 1 year ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

No one expects or prefers a bad, rushed product.

Because customers were told their games would be delivered soon (after request for full payment). I don't think they misled on purpose, but since 'pinball is hard', you'd think pin businesses might be more conservative. Also, this is their third remake, and they shipped a bunch of classics, SE's, and LE's....
Frankly, my only REAL frustration is the handling of pre-payments in this hobby.

I couldn't agree more...the people who paid (in full) months in advance have every right to be irritated, but they shouldn't be surprised....CGC has done this with all three remakes...distributors can claim its because they are making sure their building a quality product (which they do), but the reality is they don't have the manufacturing capacity, and they consistently over promise.

#2051 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

My AFMr was damaged during shipment, I refused to accept it and CGC & my dealer made good without any hassles.
When the next AFMr was sent to me the topper was damaged. I kept that game and refused to accept the topper. Again, CGC & my dealer made good without any hassles.
While this is a bummer, I have no doubt that CGC will make good for you.

So if theres no visual damage to the box (or boxes if u include the topper) do you open the box and inspect before accepting?

#2055 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

If you look at the picture of the damaged game, you can see that the box was damaged, and I would have inspected that area (at least) before accepting.

I totally understand that scenario....I was just wondering if you open the box if theres no visual damage. I've never opened the box if theres no sign of external damage so was wondering if thats not a good process.

#2063 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I ALWAYS open and inspect before I sign. I had a Dialed-In that looked ok from the outside, but was smashed inside from a drop. NEVER sign before you open and inspect. If the driver is in a hurry then tell him you are either taking the time to let me open this or you can just take it back. Because once you sign you have little recourse because they would just say you dropped it trying to set it up or something. ALWAYS open and inspect.

I'm sure this is exactly the safest route. So when you inspect do you cut the box all up? Typically I open the top, and then cut the box on two sides and then install the front legs. I'm wondering how far u take it?

#2068 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Return their money then if the game isn't truly ready no? Not sure why someone is still out of their full payment and waiting months later.

I agree, but the good news with CGC is u know your probably going to get the game at some point. Its clearly a cash flow issue with the distributors. So do the manufactures offer terms to distributors or expect full payment prior to delivery? That being said I understand the distributor doesn't want to put out the cash, but if he already has a sale who gives a shit if he or she is out the balance for a week until he/she gets paid.

#2070 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Another option in that case is tell the driver you will note on the bill of lading that he refused to let you open and inspect the contents for damage. Then sign it. Might have some recourse then if there is hidden damage.
Freight companies are notorious for not giving a shit about how they treat your multi-thousand dollar item.

Thats a good idea....when mine arrives I'm going to cut it open and inspect....

#2076 1 year ago
Quoted from flipnout1:

If someone wants their money back no problem, just ask. If the customer wants me to wait until I physically have the game no problem. I make no interest on money sitting in my account for a little longer. But realistically, depending on how someone paid, is it worth it? Did they do a wire transfer. Do they want to pay that fee again? Did they write a check? Now they have to wait for me to return their money via check and then send in another check shortly (we hope) after that. I've never had anyone ask for their money back that was waiting because of a factory delay of a few weeks or even a month or two. Cancellations sure because they didn't want to wait a year for the game we all thought was coming but ended up being way way longer than that.
So if someone out there has a better crystal ball let me know but no one can predict exactly what will happen.

well stated....its clearly only an issue for the impatient buyer (like myself)....I get u are at the mercy of what the manufacturer tells great as CGC is they are always behind the eight ball in regards to manufacturing. They really need to do a better job of communicating a realistic production schedule to the distributor. The only company that really delivers on time is Stern.....they are just way ahead of CGC, JJP, and all the others when it comes to manufacturing. Nobody is even close to competing.

#2079 1 year ago
Quoted from SkaterVet:

That all sounds more than fair. I understand wanting to receive something in a timely fashion once you have paid for it, especially something this expensive. That said, I don't quite understand all of the fuss over this issue. I'm guessing it is less financially motivated and more the frustration of waiting for the machine. If having $5-8k tied up for a couple of months is that big of a deal, you probably shouldn't be spending that much money on a game anyway. Unless, you are an operator and dependent on that income. If that is the case, I would imagine you would skip this early run period and wait to order when there is greater availability.

Its not the money (at least for me)....I thinks more frustration...also bad business in are absolutely 100% correct....waiting until their actually for sale completely eliminates the issue.....

#2093 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I received notice yesterday that my LE, (in the 400's) will be shipped on Friday).
I just received a call from Dayton Freight that they will be here in about 1/2 hour. The odd thing is, it's not my pinball machine. Apparently, they shipped my topper separately.

Thats pretty strange....usually the topper is strapped to the top of the box. CGC is way behind schedule in building the matching LE's. I was told on 12/26 that mine would ship in two weeks (I'm in the mid 500's). Clearly thats not gonna happen.

#2113 1 year ago
Quoted from ShinyBall:

The truck lines are very happy when a "subject to inspection was written on the bill". It doesn't mean squat...makes you feel better..
That basically means "concealed damage applies".
You don't necessarily do well in this situation..maybe you will maybe you won't. But the trucking co "could" fight the shipper for 1/3 responsibility..They may say bad packaging (1/3)..or, customer damaged it when then opened it and tried to set it up and it fell..again (1/3)..and of course, the truck line mishandled it (1/3).
Just way too many situations.
Just saying if I had a drop shipment..and I saw obvious damage, I would refuse shipment and write on the BOL "damaged refused" and description of what made me say that. example..Hole in ctn, pinball cabinet wood split and broken. (good idea to take pics.)
Why would I want to keep this broken unit? Let the truck line and shipper fight over that. wtf ... it's B R O K E N.
" The driver is not going anywhere until you sign for it - he'll wait..." LOL .. are you kidding me!
Amazing how so many people think they know the rules...and it's pure BS.

The only way to truly know is to take the game out of the box, install the legs, lift up the head, and inspect it .... as we all know this takes time, and the shipper isn't gonna wait around for an hour. Otherwise the only practical measure is to open the top of the box (or possibly cut the sides of the box off) and visually inspect....if theres no obvious damage then u sign off and send the guy on his way. If theres an issue after that u hope your distributor will address any issues since he was responsible for shipment.

#2122 1 year ago
Quoted from ShinyBall:

That what we all would want to do...including myself...and just maybe you will find that driver who will let you..good for you.
Shippers suggest you can do that...(they lie)

Again, (if it were me)...I would call the dist right away and tell them the driver/ delivery is here and it is damaged..I'm going to refuse it...see what they have to say. They may suggest a different course of action.
All I was trying to say, is most freight lines are not going to allow you to tear apart the box and inspect before signing. Your mileage may vary.

I myself have never done that....I've always inspected the outside of the box, opened the top and if everything visually was fine I signed date I've never had a problem, but now I'm questioning those decisions...

#2133 1 year ago
Quoted from LoganJK:

If you don't remember I ordered a non-matching LE and paid in full the first day it was announced. I need the game for an event January 20th.
My distributor is an awesome guy and told me that I would more than likely get the game before Christmas and definitely before Jan 20th. This was based on information he got from CGC in early November. My distributor has tried to get updates on when non matching LE's will hit the line but had a hard time getting an answer. It seems like CGC underestimated how many matching LE's were ordered. As of yesterday my distributor still couldn't get a good answer on when non matching LE's would start shipping.
I did some calling around and was able to get find SE's in stock at Game Exchange of Colorado. They had 6 SE's and 1 LE ready to ship (someone who ordered a matching LE dropped out). I went ahead and paid in full for one of the SE's and it is shipping today, should arrive next week.
I got a full refund from my original distributor and felt terrible because we have worked together for a few years but he was understanding and I hope to work with him again.
Lots of talk about receiving shipments. My advice is to pick up your game from the terminal/hub when it gets to your city. Most of the cross country drivers make the big bucks and know how to properly load their trucks. Once the cross country truck gets to your city your game is loaded onto a local truck with a guy making $15ish an hour. In my experience these guys hit curbs and don't know how to strap down properly.
I always tell my distributor to have the shipper call me when it gets to the terminal and I will come pick it up. Most of the freight terminals by me are near the airport. I inspect the game on the loading dock before taking it home in my truck. If you have any issues there should be a manager or shift leader around who can help you a lot more than a local driver would. You also don't have to deal with getting rid of the pallet.
I don't think I will pay in full for a game again without knowing it is ready to ship. I'm a pretty patient guy but having that amount of money tied up for a few months can start to get stressful. Especially when it seems some distributors are getting priority over others.

I can totally understand your frustration. On 12/26 I was told my matching LE would ship within the next two weeks, and thats clearly not going to happen. I think I'll pass on deposits in the future, and just wait until distributors have the game in stock and ready to ship. It eliminates all the guess work. JJ had an LE ready to ship? I wonder if a matching guy dropped out?

#2136 1 year ago
Quoted from seenev:

Probably because he's charging $1000 more than everyone else.

Really? I've purchased games from him in the past, and he's always been competitive....

#2139 1 year ago
Quoted from Nytewatch33:

I was ready to buy, but yeah he is charging $9100 minimum for it. No thanks.

I guess he's trying to get an impatient buyer to pay up.....I guess I can't blame him for trying.....CGC's lack of being realistic with their schedules really puts the distributors in a tough position. If mine doesn't ship next week I'm going to request my money back, and just pick up a used one as I could really care less about the matching number. They won't be hard to find in the Bay Area.

#2163 1 year ago
Quoted from AliciaC:

Got the email as well... Non-number matching LE shipping next week. Paid in full early December. A little nervous about the recent examples here citing freight damage. I've had a dozen or so NIB's delivered with zero issues, but isn't this why you pay with a CC? I always pay with my Amex just in case to ensure I'm covered if the game arrives in pieces or the box is filled with bricks, etc.

Are they now shipping non matching LE's before their done with the matching ones?

#2278 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

Monster Bash LE #437 is finally home.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Awesome....I should be close, but who knows (i'm in the mid 500's)...paid in full two weeks word from distributor

#2281 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I don't think the matching numbers/build timing mean anything at all. There were several people w/ much higher #'s that received their machine way before me. If it means anything...I was PIF on Nov 15th.

I think your correct. I think they built machines as a favor to their "top" distributors.....that being said I was told on the 26th that mine was shipping in two weeks so I went ahead and paid in full.

#2284 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I don't what dictates which numbers they build. I was in the matching LE#, but that was matching my MMR. I guess whoever owns AFMr #437 didn't purchase a MB. I wonder if I had purchased the AFMr along w/ my MMr if I would have received the machine any earlier.
I'm just glad it's here w/ no damage.

who knows...CGC is all over the MBRLE order was matched to my AFMRLE

#2335 1 year ago
Quoted from seenev:

Yeah. My distributor really had no idea when I might expect to get mine. I feel like there must be a better way to handle this.

I was told today that the recent delays are due to CGC having play field issues? Not exactly sure what that means, but its their latest excuse mid 500 matching LE is delayed another couple weeks (or so I'm told)

#2341 1 year ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

Anyone know any dealers that still have LE's Available?

Be patient and there will be several in a few months + u can locate one in stock , and not have to deal with CGC's manufacturing woes ....their making 1250 LE's so I highly doubt they'll sell out any time soon.....AFMRLE took over a year

#2352 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

My distro says I will likely be getting my non-matching numbers LE (which I ordered on day one) in early March. The matching LE run is supposed to be complete by Feb 1. After that non-matching LEs.
We’ll see how long it takes, but he assured me there is no way I am getting it in the next 4-6 weeks.
I’m ok with that (or at least more ok than I would be with continual “any day now” assurances).

If your matching LE (mid 500's) was supposed to ship already, and it keeps getting delayed...the latest excuse was they are having play field issues, which apparently they manufacture themselves......I was told today its at least another 2 weeks....

#2356 1 year ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

Well... This is my problem with all this waiting and no real information... I got a reply from my Distributor who said he was told they would send out an email this week regarding LEs...
Okay... Sure...
But, I was told to expect originally Mid December with the shipping... I figured okay... That would be pushed back as most get pushed back slightly. So I'm thinking around January... Doesn't seem to be the case now... Still hoping...
But, as I said before... I have to make sure I am available for the delivery and have the time off from work, and also another person to help me bring it in.
So I need to know the window. As this does cut down on me possibly traveling. The Arnold Classic is in March...
I know... at the end of the day its not a big problem... And most people would be happy if this was their biggest problem they were to be facing...
I just don't see how hard it is to tell people when to expect something that they're paying for.
At this rate I might have my next pinball machine before I get my MBr LE... Still a pretty game and I really can't wait to play it.

At this stage I'm not sure CGC even knows....they are great at telling people what they want, but horrible at meeting schedule. If u don't have a matching LE you'll probably get the game in March/April....its beyond irritating when distributors request final payment when the game is supposed ship the next week, and its not even close to shipping.....

#2358 1 year ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

Well... Mine hasn't requested one... As I paid it off in full already... I paid it through paypal credit and I got a deal with no interest if paid off in full in 6 months.
Truthfully I didn't want to pay it all off at once. As I only needed the deposit. But, I didn't want to make it complicated and risk not getting the no interest deal.
I have the money to pay it off in full right now. But, again don't see the need. What will be funny though is my machine will be paid off if I get it in March.
But, as far as my distributor is concerned. He's paid off in full.
That is another reason why I'm a little antsy about this whole thing. I just want to make sure I get what I paid for. I have protections through paypal. So I'm not horribly concerned. Just a bit cheesed at the wait. Not the end of the world.
It'll give me time to possibly fix my floor issue in the room. Just might be funny that I might actually wind up getting two NIB's about 1-2 months apart then. As I think I might be able to get a NIB of either Ghostbusters or The Munsters for my birthday in June. But, I might hold off on that purchase to make sure I can get an Elvira 3.

Dont know who your distributor is, but mine told me today that he already paid CGC in full, which was quite a surprise to me especially since the games haven't been built....seems like bad business to me

#2373 1 year ago
Quoted from andrewket:

Received notice today that my matching MBRLE is shipping tomorrow. Ordered day 1, PIF in November.

What matching number were u?

#2400 1 year ago

What I found very surprising is that my distributor who requested final payment on 12/26 due to CGC telling him that the game would be built the following week has already paid CGC in full for his games...why would u pay anyone in full unless your games are shipping immediately? Especially to a company who has failed to delivery on time....seems like a very poor business decision to me.

#2405 1 year ago
Quoted from Quadrat:

Why would he send MBRLE money to Stern?

I'm sure he meant CGC....who knows maybe CGC is having cash flow issues....why else would u pay them in advance...

#2421 1 year ago
Quoted from shokel328:

Maybe this will help some guys out there with uncertainty. Had this communication with the factory last week, when asking about production plans for the European 220v machines:
We have experienced some production delays with Monster Bash Limited Editions, and we are currently completing all Domestic Serial Number Matching at this time. I anticipate our Standard LE production run to begin in early February. I am targeting international games to be produced during the early part of the production run.

They basically don't commit to anything....I would be completely fine with delays if CGC didn't request full payment knowing full well they had ZERO chance of delivering....

#2423 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I feel for you guys. I expect getting my game within a couple of weeks after full payment. Complete BS. I wonder who is more at fault here? If CGC told your distributor that the game is ready, send us the full payment now...then shame on CGC, otherwise shame on your distributor. This is why pre-orders suck.
On the bright side, its a great game and worth waiting for. You'll be happy in the end and you will get your game, unlike when I had cash down on Alien.

I'm sure in the end your 100% correct Not sure whose at fault, but when I was going to request a refund I was actually surprised my distributor told me he already sent the $ to CGC.....kinda crazy....last pre order for this kid

Sorry to hear about the Alien fiasco....that would put me over the edge

#2425 1 year ago
Quoted from drummermike:

I got my invisiglass from JJP direct.

Same here....I always buy mine directly from JJP....$330 delivered.....I also have PDI glass, but I don't see any difference and the PDI is a little more expensive.

#2438 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

They are building and shipping. Takes a long time to make 1250 machines. Be patient. You’ll be pleased with that you get

maybe so, but they have also mislead several customers requesting final payments stating their game was shipping the following week.....its pretty poor business.

#2440 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Not sure how much of that is CGC vs Distributors but regardless you need to pay for it and you’ll get it. It’s a sweet game and worth that wait.

I can only tell you what my distributor told me. To my surprise (when I was requesting a refund) he told my he already paid CGC.....I have no doubt this is an CGC issue, and not a distributor issue. To make matters worse there's virtually no communication from CGC on whats going....

#2444 1 year ago
Quoted from hollywood:

I believe we are getting worried for no reason. MMRLE took a while sure, but great job. AFMLE went even above and beyond what I think everyone expected. I own both and absolutely love them. I have ZERO doubt in my mind that my MBLE will arrive and I will love the shit out of it.
They may not address issues as quickly as we would like, but I know that they want these out just as bad as we do. It will all be worth it in the end.

The point is they requested final payments yet still haven't delivered. Its one thing to have your non refundable deposit out there, but when they request final payment and don't perform its a big issue. I think they are having issues at the factory and are not being honest with their customers.

#2449 1 year ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

These issues are why i havent ordered a LE yet. I think its crazy to give a dealer 8k+ and then wait months for a product they still have not delivered

your a wise man

#2465 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

As someone that has worked in manufacturing for 15 years. I try to explain these setbacks and delays from all companies.
.......SHIT HAPPENS.....
Do you people really think these companies just decide to hold games for weeks at a time just to piss customers off??? Because that’s what a lot of you sound like.
The smaller the production line is the harder it’s hit by anything that can cause a delay. I’m waiting on an LE. If it’s delayed by a month or three to get it right then so be it. I’d rather wait for a correct finished product then something rushed just to please a few whinny customers.

Listen nobody is going to argue with this logic, but u are completely missing the point. The point is CGC told the distributor that the game was shipping the following week so the distributor collected the final payment. All payments were then made to CGC yet they still have not even shipped the game (its been over 3 weeks). If this was just a deposit then it would be no big deal...The big issue is the lack of call it whinny if u want, but I suspect u have that attitude because you haven't been mislead and put out $8300....

#2470 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Not sure i follow this - maybe I don't understand how the process work.....
The full payment from the customer that is being requested is going directly to the distributor. The distributor has already paid CGC to get their game allotment. These distros that are asking for full payment way in advance are just covering themselves. Is that not the way it works? Serious question not being sarcastic. All of the delays you speak of is between customer and distro to actually allow them to release the game to you and in reality it wouldn't take that long at all. Distro says I have your game, you say great - here is a wire (instant), check 3 days, credit card (instant) etc.
I would think this is true b/c not all distros are asking for full payments on the game yet. Mine hasn't recieved more than 1k yet they def have their allotment already from CGC. They don't "need" the remaining balance for CGC to then begin building my game - that is just ridiculous. I personally wouldn't support distros that do that - it's just not a pro consumer practice. That's why I always go to the same distro as I've bought many NIB and never paid in full in advance and guess what - my game was never delayed. Things worked out well each time.
I think communication is bad and yes we're going to get games so I'm not personally pulling my hair out. What's frustrating is distro's asking people like us to front them money for games that are perpetually delayed in addition to owners of LEs and even SEs saying hey guys - it's all'll be fine. Then they step away from the computer and play their new MBr haha.
I'm all for delays if it's QC issues - just communicate that to us. At least give some update as to what's going on. CGC usually does this in the thread so I anticipate they will here - I think that will help.

To be very clear all my communication has bee through my distributor. Here is the process that I've gone through:

1. $1000 deposit paid to the distributor (Matching LE)
2. Distributor notifies customer that CGC has told him that the game is scheduled to ship the following week or at the latest the week after.
3. Distributor requests final payment
4. Final payment is made
5. CGC does not ship the game within the two week period nor is there any communication on whats going on.
6. Customer reaches out to the distributor. Distributor tells him that apparently CGC has play field issues, and that the game might ship in another two weeks. At this same when a refund is discussed the distributor informs customer that all payments have already been sent to CGC....

to be clear I would have ZERO issues if the final payment wasn't requested.....

#2475 1 year ago
Quoted from MEuRaH:

I was struggling with getting the SE or the LE. I chose the SE because I heard it was being produced immediately and I didn't want to wait. With the insane amount of LEs being purchased and them being produced maybe 15 a day, I figured I wouldn't get an LE for quite some time.
After reading these latest replies, I know I made the right choice. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. It sucks to have to wait so long for something you've paid for, worse to originally be told you'd get it earlier, and even worse to not have any communication about what is going on.
I hope you guys hang in there though. This game is like a work of art.

you are a wise man, and made a great decision.....I've been through this a few times with CGC.....I've now FINALLY learned my lesson with AFMRLE my $1000 deposit was out there for 6 months (which was completely fine), but once final payment was due they shipped almost immediately.....this is a new experience. I'm just hoping others are aware and don't make the same mistake....

#2484 1 year ago
Quoted from LP30:

I can’t complain about delays between payment and shipping. I put my deposit down the first week of sales for number matching LE. Received an email the game was ready to ship, paid the balance and the game shipped that day. One difference may be that this distributor is not drop shipping from CGC, so when he said it was ready to ship, it was in his warehouse.

you were one of the lucky ones

#2486 1 year ago
Quoted from LP30:

Until the shipping company put a forklift into the cabinet.

That blows! was it SAIA?

#2507 1 year ago
Quoted from Nytewatch33:

I have found in my 20 years in sales, that the #1 thing that alienates your customer base and starts firestorms, warranted or not, is not communicating. I can think of dozens and dozens of times where I had to communicate bad news, but people were almost always more understanding in patient if I provided consistent, proactive communication. I have had to deliver news of multiple month delays on critical medical equipment, and still had the customers stick with me because I follow up and keep them in the loop good or bad. Silence is a killer. But with that said, this industry needs a tracking mechanism for builds. I can't say it's not hard to do this as I am not in the industry and I would assume if it were easy, CGC would be doing it. But man if they could figure out an automated system to track the build as it progresses and send out even some major milestones i.e "LE #632 completed today, LE #222, 848 and 168 will start next week Monday. LE #888 in stage 3 of final stages of assembly". Something like that - can you imagine how many hours would be saved in calls alone checking on status or expressing frustration?

I totally agree with you; however this is not CGC's first rodeo. They've already been through years of manufacturing so one would assume they know what their doing. The silence and the lack of performance is a definite concern.

#2527 1 year ago
Quoted from Mogg:

Maybe someone can answer a question on Non-refundable deposits in this instance of MBr.
At what point is your deposit refundable? Many distributors lay out "30-90 days for delivery, deposits are non refundable".
I think if they can't hold up their end of the agreement, it is void. However, i want to be sure. Today is day 90 for me. Other venues in the area already have a title, i may need to bail and try for a fresh title. I'm not sure which direction to go here, can't make up my mind, want to be clear about options.

I would call and make the request. Assuming its for the LE I'm sure he can sell your position. If your distributor won't give it back then don't ever do business with hem again.

#2538 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

I have read these posts about CGC's lack of communication on why the LE's are not shipping or that they are shipping in low quantities.
I have refrained from posting as I have my LE and have had it since December 20th.
While they (CGC) actually don't sell to us, the fact that the games are drop shipped from the factory makes the association easier.
The only info I have is from my distributor is that it's probably a playfield issue (unconfirmed by CGC) for the LE's that's causing the delay. And CGC is trying to make the best games possible, so they are holding up LE shipments.
If the playfields are really the issue, and if I didn't have my game, I'd be really glad that they aren't shipping some substandard part just to make some LE sales goal.
It would be great if CGC posted here, but in reality it should be a distributor that would give us the info, since we are their customer(s). And the distributor should be calling CGC to get the scoop for us. My distributor told me that he has only gotten 6 of his allotment to date...mine was the first the next 5 came last week. He's also had a few people cancel.
If I find out anything more about this, I'll post here.

I appreciate the insight. I was told that CGC makes their own play fields so clearly they should have known if theres an issue. Its not like they don't have an inventory of play fields (all models use the same play field) that have passed inspection as these are not made overnight. My issue I have with them is that they requested full payment (per my distributor) stating the game would ship the following week, and to top that CGC requested payment from the distributor for all the games he ordered. Its now been three weeks with zero word from CGC....I would have ZERO issue if it was just my deposit, but they requested full payment. I'm gonna give it another week, but if its not shipped I'll request a full refund, and just buy one when distributors actually have them in stock.

#2542 1 year ago
Quoted from andrewket:

I’m sure I’ll get yelled at, but I’ll say it anyway...
Everyone take a breath. CGC will deliver. So they’re behind. I thought I’d have my machine the week between Christmas and New Years. I had family over and was looking forward to it. It didn’t happen. Not the end of the world. We’ve got 800k federal employees out of a job or working without a paycheck, children being separated from their parents by the US government, and people struggling to feed their families or obtain drinking water. Let’s try to keep some perspective.

When someone takes your $ and doesn't deliver its unacceptable especially if theres no explanation. If they truly had play field or plaque issues they could have easily been communicated to the end users.....what u discussed above is completely irrelevent

#2622 1 year ago

I figured I would post and tell everybody that CGC sent me a direct message asking for my details (when I paid, matching LE #, distributor name, etc...)...he then looked into the issue, and informed me (very quickly) that my game was on the line, and would be shipped next week. The only tidbit I found interesting is that CGC won't start building your game until your paid in full (matching LE's only). Apparently due to issues they had with customers not paying for their AFMRLE's in a timely manner so I totally get it. This is actually important very information as the delay from payment to delivery would be longer. In the future communicating this to the distributor would be wise.

#2628 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballCoug:

This wasn't the case for my matching LE. It was at my distributor's shop when asked for final payment. Unboxed it a week later.

I suspect your distributor paid prior to CGC building the game. I think some don't have the credit or cash flow, and rely on customers paying first.

#2756 1 year ago

My number matching 593 LE shipped today....

#2777 1 year ago
Quoted from seenev:

I'm also waiting for an LE with no other pins to play in the meantime. Had I known delays would be this bad I would definitely have taken a different game off the shelf. I also considered pirates but it seemed like it had a similar wait period, and it's also more expensive. I don't think MBrLE will be disappointing but opportunity costs are a factor when you don't have any other games. Think about the fact that by end of January the will only have produced about 20% off the LEs. This could be a very long wait for some of us if we're near the back of the line. I think this is probably the last time I put down a non refundable deposit.

There is zero chance I will ever put down a deposit on a game again. I don't think their producing many games per day or week. Unless your Stern manufacturing games is a long process

#2778 1 year ago

I really don't understand the comments about code, deep games, etc....some of the games are so ridiculous with code that their really not that fun to play....what makes MM, MB, AFM, Met so great (and highly rated) is that the games are very challenging, yet the code is easy to explain and understand for kids, adults, experts, and novice players.....

#2800 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

They are all great pins but i wld not want any of those as a 1 pin collection... i don't have a big collection but it works well bc i have games like afm , met, bsd for years bc i also have more challenging pins like di, hobbit, woz . They all work great together and it keeps things fresh over long periods of time. Back when i only had 2-3 wpc pins things got stale within a month or so. Everyone is different but wpc pins were made/developed for arcade and casual use and not 20 + games a day . Just my experience but others may vary. Looks like we have similar collections and thats y it works.

I get that everyone is different, but for someone who has zero interest in banging away at pinball hours a day the classics and remakes are perfect...I've owned all the JJP games and their code is a bit over the top in my opinion....that being said they are all great games

#2825 1 year ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Well, I've learned a lesson. Regardless of a vendor's first, 3rd, or 50th game, the next time I'm asked for full-payment and told 'it SHOULD ship in two weeks', I'll tell them to call me back once they've got my game in-hand with the shipping labels printed. "It's pinball" is not an excuse for bad business behavior. Misinformation and failed commitments should be unacceptable as the norm.

I'm with you....CGC makes decent games, but getting them out of factory in a timely manner is not their expertise.....rumor has it my shipped last on Wed so we'll see if it shows up

#2854 1 year ago
Quoted from ctviss:

Opportunity cost? That would imply the alternative to waiting would be buying some other pinball machine.
But the fact of the matter is, if CGC had met their forecasted schedule, you would own the MBrLE, NOT some other machine. The alternative to waiting would be getting your game that you paid >$8k for, with your money "tied up" in a game you have in your home.
From an outside perspective and someone who did not order MBr, I see a lot of these complaints as weak. Trying to justify your anger at CGC with reasoning that you would be spending the money on something different if you knew it would take this long.
Is plunking down $8k for a pinball machine really that light of a decision for all of you? If you truly wanted MBr, you would be OK waiting a few months if there were unexpected production delays. Saying that just because CGC is late on delivery (they have been having problems, which they communicated here), you would just go with a different game if you could is just so off. It screams to me that you're not satisfied with your decision to buy MBr based on the game itself.
Next time, let this be a lesson to everyone. No manufacturing house is perfect. There are always problems and delays. There are always part shortages and design problems that need to be hammered out. No one, and nothing, is perfect.
You will get your game. CGC isn't some company on Kickstarter that stole your money and closed up shop.

All coming from someone who has zero skin in the game....priceless

#2864 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

n00b alert...
CGC's production ramp up has been one of their most positive distinctive features.

I think your clueless

#2865 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Seriously.. if you are sweating $1000 as opportunity costs on a shipping delay.. buying first run NIBs isn't going to be healthy for you.

If you actually read the past posts u would see that people were not complaining about he $1000 deposits....they were complaining about having to pay in full, and the games still not shipping in a timely manner....

#2879 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Chicago gaming's ramp up of afmr production after punting on stern production was one of the quickest startup since the 90s. They've also managed to swap between titles on the line faster than anyone but stern.
Production quality and speed has been a huge differentiation for CGC. If you didn't know that... get educated.

Who knows? stating that their quality is any different than anyone else is a stretch. I have all their games and everyone of them had issues out of the box (cabinet, mechs, software, etc.) complaint is simple...don't ask for final payment if your not shipping within a reasonable timeframe....just keep the deposit until the game is ready to ship...its not that hard.

#2889 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Great to hear that! I'll probably buy an SE myself but with news of cabinets splitting I may wait it out a bit...

Cabinets are fine....I had the same issue with my MMRLE and AFMRLE.....CGC's solution will be to send you new decals (at least that was their solution in the past)..aside from maybe giving u new decals they won't do anything about this issue.

#2892 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

I put a ticket in today. I'll let you all know if their solution remains the same.

Good luck !

#2900 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Then we’d end up with games stacking up while everyone comes up with every variation of payment delays... and then we’d have people trying to jump ahead saying “I’ll pay right away..” and you end up with a general cluster spending far more energy on this process than simply having to ship games that you know where it’s going as soon as the truck is ready.
Collecting with some head start allows the buffer to deal with variations without risking disrupting actual pack/ship. Never mind separating the chaff... because it’s always there.
And they’ve still ramped up faster than anyone sans stern who has been producing games steadily for over 30 years. Ask those who were waiting for ages for their woz to be built.
Short of doubts of cgc’s financial stability/viability... the moaning here over small delays in getting a game one knowingly pre ordered just amounts to a bunch of enititled whining.
At least before we didn’t know what the slow down was about.. now we do and instead of simply adjusting expectations, it’s brought out people crying that their toy will take a bit longer... and the woes they must face waiting.

I completely disagree....there are several ways to deal with customers who don't pay in a timely obvious one is to keep their deposit, and sell to the next guy in line...clearly the distributors can manage this issue....your basically saying the consumer should take all the risk, which is crazy....

#2920 1 year ago
Quoted from vwallat99:

You're missing the point. The 8 grand tied up for a couple months is not going to make or break me. The money has been tied up since the day I ordered the game. But maybe I'm just a little old school in the sense that let me worry about my money being tied up. I don't a company grabbing it and holding onto it before my damn game is made. I wouldn't even give a company like amazon 100 bucks for something that isn't made yet or would take 3 months let alone 8300 goddamn dollars. My distributor messed up and took my money with good intentions but its still a mess up which with that they won't be receiving my business again. That's just my bottom line.. I'm well aware of the TBL and Alien situations so maybe that's why this adds to my frustration because yes CGC will be 99% likely to get my game to me. But I don't have it now and don't know where I'm at with it and that's why I'd rather have my 8300 locked away in a coin door waiting until its ACTUALLY ready.

you mean your not happy financing CGC's manufacturing process? Did you request a refund? a few on here think it makes perfect business sense....clearly they didn't attend business school...

#2955 1 year ago
Quoted from Parzival:

This polar vortex is really fecking me. Pretty sure my LE is in town, but can't be delivered because of the cold (-37 air temp). Postal service even shut down.

wow thats cold....

#2964 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

Have any of you guys that have split decals submitted a ticket to CGC regarding that issue? I contacted my distributor, that is what he instructed me to do. I did so on Monday, but haven't heard anything back. Just curious if anyone else is in the same boat. I'm not sure what to expect from them response time-wise.

From my experience CGC offers great customer support when it comes to technical issues, play field mechs, plastics, etc....when I had issues with my AFMRLE decals CGC's solution was to send new decals, which does nothing for me as its a total pain in the ass to change them will be interesting to see what their response is now, but I suspect it will be similar...

#2969 1 year ago
Quoted from sirlonzelot:

Here are two other examples to Demonstrante how worse it can Go[quoted image][quoted image]

wow those are a lot worse than mine....I have a small hairline crack on the right side, but it doesn't seem to be getting worse

#3005 1 year ago

so the folks with the decal issues has CGC responded to your tickets? I'm wondering what their response is?

#3011 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Ok, so let me show my SE with a November build date. It does NOT appear my right decal has been pulled over the corner. Nor the left. Seems to end slightly before the edge. Zero apparent decal damage, beautiful install.
The over-pull may be a factory install mistake and not the status quo.
[quoted image][quoted image]

thats great....exactly how they should be installed....

#3027 1 year ago
Quoted from sirlonzelot:

Perfect, Good to See that they Correct it
Now my le can come

I'll let everyone know today....mine is supposed to arrive anytime

#3051 1 year ago

I just received my LE has the overlapping decals, which look great if they don't split....

#3073 1 year ago

What angle do you recommend setting the play field?....mine is currently at 7.5 degrees....its pretty fast....

#3181 1 year ago

I received my MBLE last Friday with some cosmetic issues, and one technical issue with the topper. Before airing any dirty laundry I opened a ticket with CGC on Saturday to see how they want to handle issue was not with a splitting decal it was a few other things that really don't have anything to do with game play, but are none the less issues. I haven't received any response from CGC as of this post.

#3182 1 year ago
Quoted from whitey:

Question MBR owners ? I’m considering selling my real nice original for the fact I really love my AFMLE over the original
Bigger display etc it’s awsum. A few guys think having an original is better ?
MBRLE or Original?

I'm up in Pleasanton your more than welcome to play mine....I've played both, and my initial impression is the remakes are nicer due to all the upgrades.

#3195 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

I reached out to CGC approximately 10 days ago with a general contact request for a service question, and a detailed explanation that BOTH my brand new in box AFMrLE, and my numbers matching MBrLE have cracked decals just behind the right front corner of the cabinet - BOTH in exactly the same spot. By this past Friday, I had not been contacted ... so I contacted my distributor who advised me to open an official ticket, one ticket for each game. I am in the same boat as you ... says "being processed" under my account, but no news or attempt to contact me yet.

wow I'm a little surprised they've taken this long to respond. When ever I had issues with my AFMRLE they responded very quickly....hmmm not sure what to think about the silence unless they've gotten so many of these tickets their asking management to figure out a way to respond.

#3259 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

I am one of the guys awaiting a response from CGC on a cracked decal ticket. I'll bet they are formulating a response.
If it were just one or two people having this issue, then they could handle it on a case by case basis depending upon how concerned the customer was about the issue. For example:
Customer has only a little concern about his cracked decal = Say they are sorry, send him a Christmas card next year.
Medium concern = Send out a new set of decals.
Freaking IRATE customer that has bought multiple games from CGC = Ship the game back to be repaired, or send out a new bottom cabinet ala Ghostbusters.
The challenge for CGC now that this has become a well known and documented issue that we are all talking about, is that they will have to formulate a universal response. Whatever they do to solve the freaking irate customer's issue, all customers will demand. I have faith that they are aware of and working on this problem - my ticket status shows exactly that, and I'll bet that is exactly the pause in communication that we all are experiencing.

All I can say is I'm a little disappointed that CGC hasn't responded to my ticket about my problems with my topper, scratches on my mirror blades, cabinet issue, and the powder coating thats scratched on one of my legs....I guess my expectations were a little high since their support on my AFMRLE was great....hopefully they'll respond soon

#3265 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

Yeah ... those issues have to be frustrating. I feel for you. Especially given the very recent focus on playfield quality, and the admission that LE's were getting preferential treatment regarding quality of components.
You have me thinking ... when I noticed the split decal on my LE, I left it right in the box. My logic was, maybe they'll want to pick it back up, or maybe the fact that it's still brand new in the box lends leverage to the resolution of my issue?? Now I wonder if my game has other issues that I don't even know about yet? If I don't hear something soon, I'm going to pull it out at least to inspect the rest of the game.

since you already accepted delivery I don't see any downside to opening the game and inspecting.....

#3267 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

I'm gonna do just that.
It will be interesting to see ... now that I have a good idea what to scrutinize.

Here's a pic of my cabinet issue.....obviously doesn't affect game play, but its friggin annoying to look at, and shouldn't have been delivered that way....

IMG_1671 (resized).jpg
#3271 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

That looks like a fit and finish issue. Is the right side rail positioned a little farther toward the front of the game than the side rail on the left, leaving that gap that you can see bare wood through?
The problem with that flaw - it's right in your field of vision. That would drive me nuts!

That was my initial reaction, but their the same...drives me nuts looking at interesting to see what CGC says....

#3280 1 year ago

I'm more miffed at the lack of response from CGC....not communicating is the worst thing they can tickets only been open since Saturday, but some have had zero communication for weeks, which is extremely frustrating....

#3285 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

Did you guys get the same thing?

Nope, but its nice they at least reached out to u

#3302 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

I am sure that they will - thank you!

Its great that CGC is taking steps to address this issue in moving forward, but whats the solution for the ones who have cracked decals? If history means anything they might agree to send you new decals, but nothing more?

#3304 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

[quoted image][quoted image]

what exactly are you right about? I'm not convinced its weather at all....the same exact issue happened on my AFMRLE and it was delivered in the summer....these games really don't shrink or expand much with those types of temperature swings....I buy the topper theory more than anything.

#3308 1 year ago
Quoted from Mdanielb:

Makes sense to me .... cold vinyl decals over wood joint do not flex, rather crack. Warm decals are more forgiving.
Probably multiple factors contributing, but those are two biggies.

I can buy that every decal is wrapped a bit differently since its a man made process. Some might just be a little tighter than others, which is leading to the problem.....I don't buy that temperature is the only factor here....

#3311 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

They changed the cabinet wrap process since AFMR. So its actually off topic to the situation in tbis thread.
Ive been speaking narrowly this whole time to the conditions that impact MBR..
In any event, all water under the bridge now. The games impacted are being addressed, and moving forward there's no cabinet wrapping- in line with the current model at Stern and/or elsewhere.

I agree that they have addressed the issue in moving forward, but CGC has not addressed how they are going to address the existing problems? or have they? I might have missed that part.

#3320 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

I wonder why they didn't stop this practice when AFM started tearing a year ago? I wonder why they kept wrapping decals around the corners with MB? They should've stopped with AFM.

I will say this that the wrapped decal looks much cleaner, but its clearly not worth the risk

#3328 1 year ago