Quoted from Concretehardt:
Keep playing, below is straight from the tech at CGC...
“When the customer gets their game, it usually takes 3-4 games before the phantom flip will start working . And it learns left and right separately, so often the left or right will start working before the other side.”
Yea if it's anything like the original MB, the phantom flipper has to learn, and on the original took a lot longer than 3 to 4 games. But as time went on the phantom flip would get more accurate on the original, so I'm guessing the remake will be the same.
I’m a buyer on an SE eventually. The playfield tiny imperfections really wont be noticeable or impact play etc. Realize that until CGC said something, no one here knew there was any difference, but now that you know, some can’t get over it even though they never saw it before.
Quoted from MEuRaH:
Side note: Unless you have the room lights all on, the game is off, and you're just staring at the playfield, you'll probably never even notice any defects at all. This is really a non issue.
That’s my thought as well. And if you play the machine it’s going to get worse marks on it than that anyway. If you’re buying one to never play and keep immaculate I’d buy the top of the line anyway.
Quoted from Nytewatch33:
So I'm having second thoughts again. First of all, I have an LE on order (non matched). I'm getting very tired of waiting as I have room for only 1 pin in my house and this delay has meant I have nothing for months. Prior to this I had a WOZ (which was definitely fun, but I was never all that crazy about the theme). I have always loved the call outs and campiness of MB, but the other day I went and played one on site, but at the same time I played a Hobbit and a Pirates of the Caribbean, and I have to say while the MBr is gorgeous in it's own way and if I had several pins I wouldn't have many doubts - I'm starting to wonder if it will get old quickly being my only pin.
If you were me (and particularly for those that own either The hobbit or Pirates) would you choose one of those pins instead as your only pin? There are so many modes on both that could keep me occupied for a long time. But I also know my wife loves to bash the ball around without really paying attention to the rules. Still, this is 90% for me, and she will only play occasionally. Thoughts?
I have hobbit and POTC, and am getting MB and AFM next. My wife is a basher too. She likes AFM and MB the most. But she does not like hobbit at all. POTC she likes BUT it can be punishing for a basher. But she still likes it.
Of the 250 LE shipped, a handful have posted reports of cracking issues in a decal, and even fewer with some other minor cosmetic issues. Let’s not make a mountain out of a molehill just yet? I wouldn’t cancel my LE order just because of these.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:
The problem is that JJP POTC NIB buyers (if your reading through the owners thread) are having their fair share of issues as well. Off center toppers that can't be corrected, too tight of cabinets, numerous black pearl issues, CE barnacles falling off, chest lock that won't release balls, ect. Welcome to buying NIB. I agree though, some of these problems are inexcusable. If I had AliciaC's MBRLE, I would be shooting flames from my eyeballs.
And the majority of POTC owners had no issues. Mine included. People often forget that on forums you get the complaints. Most people who have no issues will not come post about it. These are complex machines with a ton of moving parts. They are heavy and don’t always ship well. And there has to be some leeway to allow for factory repairs or blemishes of a superficial nature.
Quoted from Moeman65:
it seems to me that when they build these machines they are building them with the thought they are going to be put out on location where they get the heck beat out of them by the public. I don't think they realize these machines are going to collectors with a more discriminating eye and higher quality expectations for the home and our collections.
And if we want them to continue selling to us home users, we need to be understanding and not expect an immaculate machine that is delivered on a silver platter with zero issues ever. It’s unrealistic to do so. Some of the issues here are blown way out of proportion while others are severe enough that they need to be addressed. But the minor issues are being treated as if the sky is falling and we are all doomed!
Quoted from GCS2000:
I would keep an LE with the issues for a significant discount. The game will never leave our house but at 8k and a messed up decal job out of the box, come on man. The delays are bugging me. Do I want my game now, sure but its ok. The PF issues I thought were minor as in I could barely see anything in the pics and I doubt I would have noticed them at all if it was my game (well maybe one of them). But the split cab decals is extremely noticeable and some these AFMR pics are horrific.
From what others have said, CGC sends replacement decals for those affected.
For what it’s worth my AFMr LE has no decal issues.
Quoted from delt31:
wow - just read all of these new messages.....thought non number matching LEs were being received but apparently it's cabinet drama.
For the record, I will be PISSED if my 8k+ "toy" has a crack down the side. For the people who are saying you can't expect it to be perfect.....are you out of your mind? Sorry if you're a push over but when I spend 8k+ I expect to have a cabinet that is not already damaged.
I have no idea how widespread this truly is but for the pinsiders who have experienced it - sorry! CGC is a standup company so I expect they will resolve this.
Quoted from Bublehead:
I have been trying to decide just how I truly feel about the decal cracks, and the more I think about it, the more I don’t like it. Here is my rub... When I played the LE at Expo, when I looked at the bright and shiny new plaything, you know what? The damn cabinet looked perfect. Smooth as glass, not a wrinkle, crack, nick or scratch. That is what they were offering at $8300 delivered. Thats is what better be in the f-ing box when it arrives or it’s going right the f*ck back. How much simpler can it be to understand? “Oh your asking too much from a pinball manufacturer” to what? get what I paid $8300 for? Thats not too much to ask for in my book. Don’t try and defend pinball manufacturers for building a shoddy product. I might expect cracked decals on a bargain basement, bottom of the line product, but your flagship, top of the line model? Give me a break.
I don’t think anyone here has said cracked decals are ok and that we should just accept them with no fix?
Quoted from Mdanielb:
Yeah ... those issues have to be frustrating. I feel for you. Especially given the very recent focus on playfield quality, and the admission that LE's were getting preferential treatment regarding quality of components.
You have me thinking ... when I noticed the split decal on my LE, I left it right in the box. My logic was, maybe they'll want to pick it back up, or maybe the fact that it's still brand new in the box lends leverage to the resolution of my issue?? Now I wonder if my game has other issues that I don't even know about yet? If I don't hear something soon, I'm going to pull it out at least to inspect the rest of the game.
You’ve already taken delivery, I’d open and inspect. That said, CGC said they give the highest grade playfield to LE. I don’t think that’s unreasonable given it’s the LE. Someone explained it best akin to computer monitors. An “A” monitor might have 0-3 dead pixels. A “B” has 4-6. Anything more and it gets tossed or redone. The LE gets the As. Everything else the Bs. The couple tiny dots you had to zoom in to see and really scrutinize the PF to see on the CE or SE are totally acceptable to me. Even originals had them. It’s how the PF are made. But if it’s any worse than that CGC scraps and remakes them. The PF is going to get worse done to it from use anyways. I think the playfield dots got blown way out of proportion.
Quoted from Bublehead:
I think stabilizing the joint is a good idea. But the different lap joint they currently use puts that stupid seam in a very bad place. I get that over time, my cabinet may probably get a crack at this joint, and it is inevitable for a machine that is routed, but I would like to start out without one as a HUO customer. Is that asking too much from my pinball manufacturer?
I don’t think so.
Quoted from Mdanielb:
That is what also really got me thinking ... trying to understand why/how this phenom is mostly occurring with LE's.
We have already established that vinyl over a wood joint is a weak link. Add 40 lbs bouncing around with that weight distributed directly down through the cabinet right at the area of that joint - I think that you are right, and this is a plausible contributing cause. It would be so fascinating to see statistics if they immediately started shipping LE's with the topper sent separate, not on the box top.
I do not recall LEs being affected more or less than SE or CE. Did you collate the data from all the posts?
Edit: as I earlier suspected the vast majority of machines shipped did not have this issue. The number affected was being way overblown which is what happens as is the nature of forums. It’s great to see CGC is correcting it none the less.
Quoted from LTG:
I would think they'd collate data from the tickets on their Support - Help Desk.
LTG : )
Exactly my thought as well. I’m glad CGC indicated exactly how few have really been affected by this. The way these forums read, the sky was falling and 110% of machines were affected.
Quoted from Mdanielb:
All I really know for certain, is that I have a brand new in box AFMrLE #900 (still in it's box, purchased last year) and just received MBrLE matching #900, and both games have cracked decals. Given that 1% stat, I guess that I am just exceptionally unlucky.
My AFMr LE #860 has no cracked decals.
Anecdote is anecdote. :/ I am sure CGC will fix your issue though! It’s great they posted.
Quoted from PtownPin:
Its great that CGC is taking steps to address this issue in moving forward, but whats the solution for the ones who have cracked decals? If history means anything they might agree to send you new decals, but nothing more?
If the defect is with how the decals were applied, what else are they supposed to do besides send new decals? Is that what they did for this issue previously with AFMr?
Quoted from KornFreak28:
If it was in fact a "weather issue", How come the tears/cracks only happen in the same area/corner of the cabinet? I would assume the weather would affect other parts of the cabinet as well no?
They didn’t say it was only a weather issue. It was also in combination with the decal over the joint which they are no longer going to do as well.
Quoted from playernumber4:
I am glad to be in the later runs whenever CT gets their non matching games in. But in the interests of safety I will still add brackets. Its obvious that for some reason a random number of these games have poorly connected joints. Better to be safe than sorry.
It is good to hear that CG is aware of the problem and searching for any potential sources of it.
Where do you get that there are poorly connected joints? That’s a stretch and a half...
Quoted from playernumber4:
Its very simple. If that corner joint were a rock solid like concrete the decals would not be cracking because there would be zero movement of the cabinet. It would not matter if the decals were wrapped around the corner or not because they still would not crack. If the corner joint moves at all something has to give.
You do understand wood flexes and can even expand or contract right? Has zero to do with a “poor joint”. We went from decals too tight applied over a seam causing a tear to “omg the machine is going to fall apart if you don’t reinforce their crappy joints”.
Quoted from TheLaw:
Yeah for me all the bells and whistles are just a perfect PF and a new game. I was 1000% Standard before I saw the bigger screen, that's really the only improvement for me.
The LE gets a gauranteed higher grade playfield. The SE you might get a slightly lesser grade PF.
Quoted from TheLaw:
Wow that's lame. But even a lower grade has to be as good as the other companies these days which should be fine
I don't think it's lame though, I mean it is after all their "flagship" trim. But I completely agree that even the slightly lower grade is a great playfield and you'll likely never even notice any difference unless you take a magnifying glass to it and try to study every minute nonsense detail lol.
Quoted from mamawaldee:
I'm currently in for non-matching MBrLE.
Went to The Arcade in Brighton yesterday, and got excited when I saw a flawless AFMLE there.
I was simply...just...beautiful.
Started playing and immediately discovered the left flipper is screwed. Acting exactly like the hold coil transistor was latching up. Seen that before when a coil is changed and they forget to replace the recirculation diode, after so many voltage spikes the transistor becomes a thyristor. It looked like an electronic problem to me for several reasons.
Regardless, we told the dude, and he comes out to take a look at it. Runs some diagnostics, lifts the playfield, looks under it for a bit, fiddles with a few things, puts playfield back down, runs more diagnostics, game turned off for the remainder of our visit which was around five hours.
I even told the guy when he started looking at it, "I'm very curious to see what you can do with this because I have MBr on order, and I'm worried about this new system".
I'm not too happy to see that the game remained dead. This arcade at least used to have good techs, so while it might not be that bad, I really wanted to see the soldering iron come out and that game come back to life. There are a lot of games there, its not too crowded, and the place only open on the weekends and not even all day. Its not like the game was getting hammered constantly. The playfield is like glass.
There is another local AFMLE at Marvin's Mechanical Museum in Farmington Hills. One of the tri-color LEDs on the big saucer was not working. Another electronic problem. These games are in places where they should be well maintained. Am I being too pessimistic?
I'm sulking about resuming the hopeless search for an affordable nice original MB again. I want something I can fix later on.
Even one LED not working will make me blow a gasket after spending $8300+tax.
Machines on route are at the mercy of abuse, high plays, and owners/operators knowing how to fix them. I think both of those are perfectly able to be fixed.
I know a guy who has an incredibly good shape original Monster Bash. HUO only, he had the PF clearcoated so it still looks brand new. But I'd imagine he'll want a solid price for it since it's such an immaculately cared for pin.
Quoted from TheLaw:
Probably. They'll get far less traffic in a home, and quite frankly I don't think it's anymore to worry aboot then other companies (they all have issues).
Funny part is I was at Marvin's specifically to play Beatles, which was turned off. Played a bunch of Pirates that had loose PF part jangling around. Their AFM plays floaty as shit too.
I played an on route AFMr the other day that was floaty. Felt exactly like mine at home when I had the PF at 6.5 degrees. Upped mine to like 7.2 and it plays significantly better. It's amazing how badly set up machines on route can be sometimes. Played an ST that you could easily and clearly see was tilted to the right for the PF. Even my wife commented on it.
Quoted from Bublehead:
It will certainly change my pick for distributor on CGC games in the future. PPS will ship one to anyone willing to pay in full right now, today and Sarah will have it on a truck on its way to you by tomorrow. Imagine how that makes me feel right now? That I could just on a whim, call her number and get one in a week, right now, for the exact same price, or, continue to wait for my delivery through my original distributor and still be weeks out, who knows?
What would you do? I would like to see some of your responses on this, because I am having a hard time not reaching for the phone right now.
I'd cancel my order and buy from the distributor who has them in stock. The only exception would be is if my distributor has done right by giving me discounts, free shipping, etc. If not, then I wouldn't hesitate to jump ship.
In my opinion you need to find a balance. A distributor big enough to get allotments of games that you want, but not so big that you become just a number and receive poor service. One such distributor for that is Zach at flipnout. However he did sell out of his MBr LE allotment for now.
Quoted from metal-mods:
For those that posted that they only increased the right popper power setting to max with no change on scoop SDTM problems, YOU NEED TO ADD THE SPRING WASHER TO THE SOLENOID !!!! Throw away the duct taped shoe pieces and glued flipper rubbers, stop putting game off level, and stop bending the scoop.BUY A SPRING WASHER AND INSTALL IT LOL!! It takes 5 minutes, literally. I've played over 100 games since INSTALLING A SPRING WASHER, which means I've probably hit the scoop at least 500 times- every eject has gone to left flipper
What size and where do you add it?
Quoted from metal-mods:
Spring Washer= .50id x .875od Found a pic on Marco, attached, but you could probably get at your local hardware store.
I installed mine at bottom of coil, but it probably doesn't matter which end. Once you lift playfield, grab that coil and start wiggling it. You'll see that there's a ton of slop. The spring washer will eliminate that.
Thanks for the tip!
Considering selling my AFMrLE to buy MBr - just to change things up a bit. Hmmmmmmmm
Quoted from Bublehead:
Can you explain this “logic” you speak of about their ordering system? Because here are the facts as I know them:
I went with a larger distributor
I ordered within 3 MINUTES of the ordering window opening up
I was 10th on his list
I have waited 172 days
I still have no MBrLE
I was told it was shipping this week
I was even told what serial number I am getting
I have not got a copy of my BOL
I have not got a shipping date
I have not got an estimated delivery date
I do not have a clue if it has even left the dock in Chicago
I have emailed my distributor
I have not heard anything back
People are reporting ordering way later than I did and have gotten or may still get a machine before me
So whats so logical now about how their distribution scheme to distributors works?
It’s real easy to sit back and armchair QB this situation after your machine has already been delivered, so I hope you wont mind if I take your comment with a boulder sized grain of salt. Oh, and in preperation H fashion for the oncoming ‘roid rage- screw the downvotes.
Here is how this happens:
Distributor A is allowed to order a maximum of 15 LE, and places all 15 LE orders on day 1. They are fulfilled in order from CGC but are mixed in with other distributor orders as well.
Distributor B is allotted a maximum of 6 LE, places an order for 6 LE on day 1. They are fulfilled in order from CGC but are mixed in with other distributor orders as well.
You went with distributor A and your LE is in the "later" LE run since you were number 10 in line with that distributor.
Distributor B has a cancellation of one of their 6 LE orders, leaving an "unsold" earlier in line LE in their order. Someone else "places" an order in February with distributor B, thus that person gets that "unsold" machine even though they ordered later. It's because they took someone's spot who cancelled with distributor B.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
Quoted from Bublehead:
f3honda4me thank you, I understand the mechanics, it's the customer enflaming properties of their system of not putting that cancelled order behind all others when it is cancelled, but is instead retained in it's original spot in the que. I understand no distributor would want to give up an allotment, but that is not what happens, they should have to give up the waiting spot, not the allotment. Seems that would be fair to all customers, No matter the distributor. And dole the allotments out to distributors however you want to. That doesn't have to change, but retain the order of delivery to active customers, and if there is a nonrefundable deposit, and you enforce it, then all distributors are protected from EACH OTHER, and nobody is shilling to damage another distributors allotments. Seems simple, but I am sure there is a flaw that will be pointed out by Pinside, there always is.
That’s not how it works, you’re misunderstanding.
The distributor never cancelled the order with CGC. CGC has no idea if a machine is sold to a customer or not in many cases, until they have to ship it at which point the distributor provides the drop ship info.
The distributor knows they can likely sell it before it needs to ship and even if not would probably just have it shipped to them for inventory. CGC doesn’t know about any of that. They just know the order was placed day 1 and is filled when it should be, regardless of who it goes to.
Far as CGC is concerned the order name is the distributor from day 1. The customer order is with the distributor not CGC.
Quoted from seenev:
I completely agree. From now on I'm not buying NIB unless this changes. I'm happy to buy second hand, which eliminates a lot of the concerns over the state your game will arrive in anyways, but my experiences with distributors have not been positive, even when it's not really their fault. The next NIB game I buy will be factory direct or not at all.
What model should they use? The manufacturer > distributor > customer model I'd argue is still the primary method used for most retail still. And for good reason... most manufacturers don't want to have to deal with the headaches and overhead of a 100% direct to customer sales method.
Not the distributors I've used. They help me directly and if something is needed from the manufacturer they contact them on my behalf. When I had a problem with my last NIB stern game, Zach from Flip N Out contacted stern for me and I had a new part just 2 days later.
Get an error right gate stuck closed. But in the test the right gate opens and closes. Can’t figure out what it’s barking about? Seems to work in game fine.
Quoted from PinScott:
I had the same issue and reported it to CGC months ago, so I am surprised the issue still exists.
To fix, I removed the ramp and placed the ramp stud into a vice and then gently hammered the ramp edge flat. I tried to file the surface but found using a hammer was much quicker. Close the vice only enough so it's top edge of the stud has something to rest against and be sure to hold the ramp while you tamp the wire form edge.
My SE that I bought this weekend has this issue, build date was april 9th. So doesn't look like CGC has fixed this yet.
My ramp is tightened. I even cranked on it more to try and get the wireform down more to no avail. Looks like I’ll need to remove the wireform and file it down or flatten it somehow.
Interesting issue on my left bride ramp, a bit different than what my searching found in the thread. On mine, the ramp is in such a way that the ball rides up on the outside of the loop between the wall and the wireform, and when it gets up near the bride it "falls" into the wireform. This slows it way down and sometimes prevents it from making it entirely. My game is set to 7.2 degrees pitch, and I tried loosening and moving the wireform but that didn't fix it. It's like the wire form rail on the outside of that first curve needs to be higher than the inner rail of the wireform, but I can't find a way to do that without bending the entire wireform so out of shape that it won't fit back in correctly or might even break it.
Quoted from Bublehead:
Mine does this as well, I think they all do actually, even OG MB’s, which is why that ramp has always been a hit it solid, or don’t even try. Once I got the wireform interface with the playfield straightened out, the ramp works like an original to me and my memory of playing them for 20 years... strong shots on target go right through like butter, but strong missed shots, rejected... weak on target shots get to the second transition and roll back, strong missed shots loose too much velocity due to rattling against the sides, but the shot that hits the stainless guide on tangent slides right around and hits the wireform perfectly goes right on up and through. That is how mine works now, and I’m not touching it.
My friend has an OG MB and his doesn't do this, his left bride ramp is butter all the way. I'll have to look at his wireform next time I'm there to see if his looks aligned differently. On mine, strong/good direct shots are actually worse, as the ball rides the side of the wireform up high and then crashes down into the wireform, then stops and rolls back down as a miss. Weaker direct shots perform the best on mine.
Quoted from Oneangrymo:
Can u tell me which model u have ?
Escalera RLA-HC (66” w/forklift), I also got the added pinball lift plate accessory so I could lift my pins myself using the forks so put on legs etc.
He is an authorized distributor and talked with me on the phone a ton before I bought mine. He can also usually get you better pricing than what you find on the internet.
This has made my whole process easier. I open the game standing up outside, shimmy it out of the box, and then strap the escalera (without forks, takes 30 seconds to remove them) to it and hault it downstairs. I then leave the pin standing, and get the forks and lift plate onto my escalera (takes 30 seconds, no joke), at which point I move it over to where the pin is. I am able to lay the pin down myself onto the lift plate. Crank the plate up to lift the pin, install the legs, set it down and cut the shipping strap that holds the head to the pin. Put the head up. Last, lift the pin again using the escalera, and wheel it into place!
I'm gonna do a video when I get my next pin to show how easy it is. There are a few pics from when I get my WOZ: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-fan-club-members-only/page/139#post-4910016
Left bride ramp rejects are driving me nuts. Making it nearly impossible to get her mode going. I’ve tried adjusting the wireform. Gonna try last ditch effort of bending the outside metal “wall” towards the wireform.
Quoted from CKrueger:
On my left ramp, the right-most metal guide (not the wireform, the solid "sheet") was angled from left-to-right as it comes up from the playfield. It had the effect of making strong shots hit the full-habitrail portion of the ramp and bouncing back.
I fixed this by bending the top of the metal guide to the left somewhat. It's now vertical, and I haven't seen a reject on a strong shot yet.
This problem also caused the ball once to jump onto the TOP of the habitrail and ride it down! "Damnest thing I ever did see!"
Thank you for posting this. I bent the metal wall on mine in a slightly different spot, where the ball was riding the right wireform and the right metal guide wall. This has dramatically reduced failed bride ramp shots. Before, direct bride ramp shots would work maybe 1 out of every 10, and now it's more like 7 of 10.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
I thought theynstopped the wrap around decals? It may not be a big deal to some but i wouldn't be happy i can tell you that. At the prices they are charging i want to be the one that puts any scratches on it if it gets scratched.
They said they were going to but still haven't stopped doing it. My MBr made April 9th still has wrapped corners, which is like over a month after they said they were going to stop doing it.
The music is great, classic 90's pinball. I don't see any update changing it ever coming?
Quoted from twinmice:
I ordered a my CE, on a friday morning, shipped that day from CGC, took delivery in CA Tuesday afternoon. Zach at Flip n Out pinball uses Daylight Transportation, this is my third game from Zach in a couple months and he has been awesome, each game was delivered within a few days using Daylight. If your thinking about buying anything, i would give him a call.
I echo this sentiment. I ordered an IMDN late wednesday afternoon from Zach. He shipped it that evening fedex. I picked it up Thursday morning at the fedex depot about 16 hours after I ordered it.
Quoted from Bearcat:
Apologies if this has been covered...
We are having major issues getting the ball through the left side bride ramp - even on perfect shots, the ball almost always (at least 18 of 20 shots) hangs up and comes back...
It's a flaw in the design of the ramp. The rails are set so that direct strong shots, the ball rides up on the outside rail and against the outside wall, eventually rolling down into the middle of the guide rail causing it to slow WAY down. I have yet to find a way to really fix it well, though I get a few less rejects now after trying to do some bending of the rail/wall.
I spoke with Ryan at CGC and he had me really crank hard on the wireform. I just wasn’t doing it hard enough. It finally “gave” and allowed me to bend it. I went a little too far at first, bent it back a tad, and now it works just like it should!
Quoted from Bublehead:
This is a bit long, but I have extensively worked on my left bride ramp to make it smoother. The difference between OG and the remake is the shape of the stainless wall and the shape of the wire form matching each other. Since there is a misshaped difference, the ball will come off the rails and sling around the corner riding the wall and the outside wireform rail. When it gets around the corner, they start to match back up in shape and the ball falls back onto the wire form rails and trys to get up and over the hill. This allows the centripital force to be reduced, the acceleration reduced, and so when the ball gets to the final part of the hill, it runs out of momentum and fails to go over the top. You want the left bride ramp to be smooth, you have to bend either the wireform or the stailess wall to make the ball ride both rails and the wall as it goes around the corner and it converts all the centripital forces into linear acceleration to send it up over the hump. This was the biggest and hardest issue I have had to tweek out, after the scoop SDTM and Dracs feet SDTM which was the most pressing issues to keep the arcade patrons happy (the wife, me). I eventually tweeked the stainless to be closer to the same shape as the wireform, and then moved the wireform on its mounting nuts to give me the best result as you hit the really tight shot between the phantom flip targets. If you were to disassemble the whole upper left of the playfield you would be able to shape the stainless a little better. This is what is really wrong as far as how it came from the factory. But now that I got it rolling good, it just feels good to hit it.
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