Well at least this thread has now been vindicated.
Game looks great. Had no interest, but am now seriously considering one.
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:
LOL. Nice try. The GI is off in the before pic. Another fake before pic. Who else is tired of these fake before/after Pinstadium comparison pics in every other thread? No truth in advertising. Dishonest shills everywhere. I think it’s long overdue for the mods to start deleting these scam posts and moderating these shills.
I still have no idea how he gets so many shills working for him. Don’t see it with any other product.
Quoted from Ed209:
If I want color + lower playfield I have to shell out for the LE. Duck that. The B/W should have been for those choosing to opt in with the higher price point.
Agree, but I’d place a bet on Stern offering a full colour Premium at some point. They they did it with Roadcase Metallica, and even AC/DC.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:
Stern used to say that their LE's had a thicker clear coat than pro's.
Can't remember which games.
I think on LOTRLE it was advertised as a feature of the LE, but it was also on later LE’s because of the signature on the Pf, which needed the extra coat of clear to protect it. I don’t think it was ever meant to be an extra coat for LE’s, more just a consequence of the signatures.
Once all LE’s are made, the SE’s and CE’s will have a good chance of getting a “superior” PF because all levels of PF will be put into production (excluding really bad ones).
And I’m as picky as the next guy when it comes to NIB game quality. But even then I have to laugh that we’re all so worried about these really minor “flaws” on our new PF and then proceed to chuck 4 metal balls in and smash them around at ridiculous speeds without a care for what it’s doing to the PF.
Quoted from LoganJK:
I wanted to chime in a bit on the screen printed play-fields, I'll try to keep it short. My wife and I own a wholesale apparel screen printing company.
We received our SE about a week ago and I was extremely impressed with the quality of the play field. If I take the glass off and stick my nose in the machine I can find a few (3) super small dots that aren't perfect BUT from playing level the play field looks absolutely amazing.
I was blown away (in a good way!) to read the post about the 10 color print the play field receives. I've printed a few million shirts in the last decade and we have only done a 10 color print a few times. We use top of the line equipment (http://roqinternational.com/), but during some prints the smallest piece of lint or other debris can shut a job down real quick. For us, printing apparel is more forgiving than printing on paper or wood and we have ways to mend small mistakes. Screen printing is all about setup and a mistake can sometimes mean breaking down the entire job and starting from scratch, this can take hours or days depending on the issue.
Digital printing has tried to make a dent in the traditional screen printing market for about 20 years now and there are several reasons why it has not done more than make a dent. I can only speak for my experiences with apparel printing but digital printers are far from being able to produce the vivid colors spot color screen printing can. I've seen all the big DTG printers at trade shows that fetch $50k and don't me wrong they work great for the small market they serve but they are a long way from replacing screen printing.
I think it would be super cool to see how the play fields are printed, I would love to see the setup in person or video. What kind of ink? mesh count? I'm curious because I love pinball and screen printing. @cgc_dougs I know you have been doing this for a while but I might have a trick or to you like, email me.
My bottom line is I LOVE telling people that the play field on our MBR was hand screen printed. 300+ plays this a week, scoop looks great. woo
Love hearing your passion loganjk - its so cool when 2 of your worlds meet. Now you make me want an MBr.
Quoted from andrewket:
MBRLE arrived today. I haven’t had much time to play it, and I haven’t examined the play field under a microscope....
But... they shipped it without any pinballs. Not a big deal, but a bit humorous none the less. I sent CGC an email so they can be on the lookout for that subtle mistake.
Don’t know what it is about collectors these days....so demanding. Back in my day we’d throw a couple of old stones or marbles in there and fire her up.
Quoted from sirlonzelot:
Doesyour Decal already tear ? Under the siderail at the Front ?[quoted image]
Quoted from tatman9999:
Good catch. I did not see that.
Had the same happen on my AFMr out of the box. CgC assured me at the time they’d fixed the problem going forward by not wrapping the decals around the corner. This was at the same time Stern was having problems with splitting cabinets so I was a bit concerned at the time. CgC insisted it was only cosmetic. A bit surprised to see the problem re-surface now.
Quoted from Concretehardt:
Two games with this issue so far out of roughly 300 shipped, my LE looks perfect.
Definitely more widespread than that. I remember some MMr cabs had the issue. As I said my AFMr has the issue. Now MBr. I remember my friends AFMr also had it but he hadn’t noticed it so I didn’t tell him. So there’s likely a lot more we don’t hear about.
More than likely it’s only cosmetic, but there’s a lot of value placed on “only cosmetic” stuff in pinball.
Quoted from Bublehead:
I think the side art split is due to the overlapped decals and I would expect it to have issues.
This looks like a market opportunity to me... who wants to license MB artwork from PPS and build replacement high end silk screened reproduction cabinets for CGC’s decal splitting reproduction cabinet? Has a potential 1250 member customer base to sell to... any takers?
Actually CGC are the best placed to silk screen cabinets. Would be cool if they offered one of their models (Sle??) with silk screened cab art. Yet another value $$ ad for them, collectors happy, win-win.
Quoted from Zablon:
Sounds like those spots need extra mylar put over them to prevent it from spreading? Or would that even help?
Wouldn’t help. The decals can’t be wrapped around the corners when they’re installed - there’s no room for the unavoidable cabinet movement. Only way you can stop it looking bad like in the above photos, is to cut the decal down the corner to allow an expansion joint. It’s like an expansion joint in concrete. If you don’t have one it cracks with normal expansion and contraction.
But if you cut the decal it will show a white line when you do.
Quoted from cheshirefilms:
Have yet to hear of anyone report them spontaneously "forming." Hopefully I won't be the first Seems to all be out of box apparent, so far.
The wood working expert testimony is all well and good, but if we take the above as true, all that's left is the decals, the cabinet, and the side rails. Something's gotta be out of calibration there on the games with these issues vs. the majority/minty ones, including the ones for AFMr that HAVEN'T been developing these issues.
Since all the damage is always at the top of the seam, I was thinking it’s possibly due to the way they use pallet straps across the top of the game when shipping is causing excess movement on that top panel/seam.
Quoted from Mdanielb:
The reason that it's beginning at the top - that seam is reinforced at the bottom of the cabinet by both the bottom (floor) cabinet panel, and by the heavy duty William's style leg bolt bracket attached to the inside of the corner. There is nothing reinforcing the top. The very top would be the first part of that wood joint that would experience movement, if it did occur.
Funny thing is these cracks are appearing out of the box. I’m assuming they weren’t there before they were boxed. So it’s happening during shipment, or at least after being boxed.
Quoted from Mdanielb:
Agreed! CGC wouldn't release a game with that flaw. I think your idea about the strapping causing stress during shipping is plausible. I just wish that they would have done the same as every other manufacturer, and not decal over a wood joint.
I’ve really got no idea, just hypothesizing. To take it further, since that tension strap goes in the middle of the front of the cab, it could be bowing the top of the front panel which has the effect of pushing the edges up, this splitting the decal at that point. That top part of the front panel above the coin door is the narrowest point of the cabinet and probably most flexible. Who knows but might be worth looking into.
Quoted from cheshirefilms:
Guys, guys, guys. All these so called design weaknesses/freight strap tensions, etc have been present for these machines the entire run of the game to date, but only in the past couple days has this issue come to light, and presumably only on recent unboxings.
Surely something else must have changed from the first 58+ pages of flaw free decal games to the very recent games, right, be it install process, quality of decal, etc?
At this point- on that note, I think I'll disengage. In truth we're all probably just spinning our wheels, hoping to make the affected have some clarity and the unaffected feel more secure. It's really outside our pay grades. Kind of like grading their playfields
Ah, no. I had split decals out of the box on my AFMR over 12 months ago. The only reason I’m commenting. It’s also been reported on MMR from original runs.
So it’s not new, it’s not isolated. The best solution is to not wrap the decals, simple. CgC told me that’s what they were doing going forward over 12 months ago when I had my issue. Not sure why theyre still doing it this way.
CGC are the cabinet experts. They have been doing it for decades and they know how to make a rock solid cabinet. I’m sure they’ll work it out.
Here ya go, some split cabinet porn, out of the box Dec 2017. In fact these photos were taken whilst still in the box:
Quoted from AliciaC:
Unboxed our LE this afternoon. Several cosmetic issues out of the box: Cracked decals on two corners, blue powder coating blemishes, broken plastic part fell out of the game and a few other items (repaired wood w/ black paint or ink on the topper). Submitted a ticket and waiting for an update.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Yet another "isolated" incident of cabinet decals cracking. But lets not say anything just in case we offend someone.
Quoted from Mark000:
I bought my AFMR LE brand new in December 2017 with exactly the same crack in the same place. Cant believe they have not sorted this issue out 12 months later. Maybe its their trademark lol. They did send me new decals tho. Maybe one day I'll fit them.
Ha, Mark from Brisbane, Mark from Sydney here, had the exact same issue on my AFMRLE from December 17. At the time I was told it was a very isolated incident (ie, you're the only one complaining) and they (CGC/Mr Pinball) couldn't believe it could happen because "they were the best in the industry making cabinets" (actual quote). A friend also from the same shipment had the same issue.
Quoted from AliciaC:
Really? I've tried to remain civil about this and give CGC a chance to somehow resolve, but c'mon man, I strongly disagree with your comment. This must be an extra special LE as it somehow can repair wood damage with magic ink while fully packed in it's original shipping container before it's opened by the original purchaser. The game clearly had issues when it was placed in the box for shipping. I didn't even include the photo of some funky rectangular blemish on the lockdown bar. I'm equally pissed about all of the issues, but the broken plastic piece is concerning as I'm not sure where it came from (or what may be impacted without it).
Anyone have thoughts on how to resolve the cracked decal issue? Replacement decals are not going to suffice as I'm not going to rip apart my new 8K toy that wasn't assembled properly.
At any rate, my original post was my experience and may have been a game that somehow made it through final quality control with some issues. I'll keep the thread updated on how CGC plans to resolve.
The condition of that game is clearly not acceptable. That back corner blemish looks like an attempt to patch/hide it. Id be sending that back.
Don't worry about the plastic bit - that belongs on the inside of the corner of the lockdown bar. Just keeps the lockdown bar from moving side to side when playing. Its just held there with a bit of double sided tape so will always fall off. Same thing happened to mine when I got it. That's the least of your worries and is easily fixed. The other stuff not so much.
Temperature could be a reasonable explanation for the decals. Cold factory when the decals went on and cured. Warm house, cabinet expands and splits the decal. Only at the top because that’s the weakest point.
Whatever is causing it, just don’t wrap the decal around the corner. Such a simple solution, and one that was identified by CGC over 12 months ago.
You never see a split decal on a JJP game because they don’t overlap the decals around the corner. Nor did the 90’s BW games.
Quoted from f3honda4me:
And if we want them to continue selling to us home users, we need to be understanding and not expect an immaculate machine that is delivered on a silver platter with zero issues ever. It’s unrealistic to do so. Some of the issues here are blown way out of proportion while others are severe enough that they need to be addressed. But the minor issues are being treated as if the sky is falling and we are all doomed!
So many things wrong with this statement, but the glaringly obvious is that without the home market there is no pinball market. Are you suggesting GCG will exit the pinball market all together because people complain about faulty goods?
Quoted from whitey:
Question ?? How come no issues with MMR ???
I think there’s moisture in the plywood and it’s drying out , also the legs over tighning can put pressure on the lower portion of cabinet and opening at top
There were some issues reported with early MMR’s. Didn’t seem to be as many though.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:
If mine arrives with cracked decals it’s going back for a refund or proper replacement.
From personal experience CgC will supply the decals but won’t pay for decal replacement. You’ll need to negotiate that with your importer. If he’s reasonable and values your business he’ll pay to have it done - since it’s about the same price of sending it back. Otherwise be prepared to be sending it back.
Quoted from GCS2000:
I hope they do come out with an MMRLE or whatever they want to call it and give it the XL treatment. That game deserves it.
It really does. I want an MMR, but am holding out for when they can offer the Xl screen, and maybe a topper at good as AFMR. If any game deserves this treatment it’s MM. I’m sure it would sell.
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