Just placed my order for an SE! Expected to ship tomorrow. I was "heavy lean" to the CE until I saw the SE in person this afternoon. Just couldn't expect the CE to make me happy after that. My first NIB since my GB Premium nightmare (don't ask- not what you think).

Side orders placed from Kerry at Mantis for Mosh pit, target decals from pinball decals, and soon from Cliff for the proverbial cliffys (I understand the "CGCys" aren't so hot?). Any other key buys needed? Not as key, but hopefully will track down some mirror blades locally this weekend.

Id come equipped with a $20 in your back pocket to tip him for his patience in advance in case of any problems.

If he still insists I cant stay I'll just take it, just let him take it.

You might be delayed your game an extra a day or two, but I'm sure you can talk to his supervisor also if need be.

Ultimately, I wouldn't sign on the dotted line in this day and age till you've confirmed the game is OK-
That includes cabinet, playfield glass, side rails, and turning it on.

Again, inspect/open the top at least before signing. I can tell the difference between a pinball machine and a box of bricks. Beyond that, keep a couple 20s in your pocket for the driver to buy time if needed. Dish out one at a time as needed.

As has been stated before, these home delivery drivers make peanuts and an extra $20 or two could buy you the time you need to set it up and fully inspect. That's what I'm going to be prepared for. Gotta think in their shoes- they got mouths to feed, too.

Did you send Cliff a pic of what the edgeline looked like on the remake?

In theory, it should line up to the edge same as the original game. I reached out to him to have a look at this thread, too, while he's at it.

I definitely don't want to install the fat protector on a new playfield, that's why I bought into the mantis cliffy edgeline sandwich concept- to protect it properly from the beginning so I wouldn't have to progress to a fat protector for repaired scoop damage.

Mine's scheduled for delivery tomorrow 9am-1pm.
Hopefully all will be well- I let dispatch know I will be doing a full concealed damage inspection prior to signing.

Side note, I just spoke to Chicago Gaming, and apparently after the first 80 or so games they modified the scoop protector to be thicker and also somewhat of a "mash-up" in design of Kerry's design and the Cliffy, with a welded-on interior liner going around the interior of the scoop hole.

A location game they witnessed had 13,000+ plays and no damage with this new protector in. Dimpling on the protector to be sure, but the wood was unharmed all the way around.

For my part, I'll probably thus put the mantis and the cliffy in my coinbox, good to have just in case, but by no means an essential install for a home-use only game, by their accounts (and they also confirmed installing the mantis/cliffy would not void the warranty, for those interested just in case).

So sorry dude. Which freight company?

It's ALIVE!!

MVIMG_20190115_132149 (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20190115-151222~2 (resized).png

Mmkay. Tired of waiting, but don't mind waiting...
Sounds like you're exhausted from the waiting,
Maybe its time to step down to an SE...

Topper looks cool- won't deny- I'm even keeping eyes open for someone who wants the LE but not the topper- anything's possible- but I'm all about stainless or Chrome on Williams games.

Always thought powder looked chintzy on Bally Williams games. The lockdown belt buckle type graphic not my cup of tea- really gaudy to my eye. And shaker motors don't do much for me, even on games like Crypt and Roadshow.

But to each their own! For most, the LE is love. Just wasn't for me on this title. Plenty of options for plenty of dream games.

Anyone maybe interested in a group buy on invisglass who might go to TPF? I understand these usually ship in at least pairs from JJP...I can hold your sheet for you till the show...

Ironically, the plasma disc isn't a unique snowflake- its already been re-created with the exact same connector by Lermods...and plugs right into the SE the same as the LE.

As for the lockdown bar, I find in pinball design there's a fine line between awesome mods and bling-y mods. The plaque is totally bling-y, in my view. As in, over the top bling-y. I didn't even see etched lockdown bars in the mod space till about a year ago at TPF. Too bad they didn't just put a numbered plaque on the cabinet- a-la Addams Gold. For my part, at least.

Anyway- one thing you 'could do'- ask Chris at Pinball plating and more if maybe you shipped them your bar, if they could mimic the metallic color and sheen.

Might not be possible- but if they can, you then have a duplicate without the plaque for your game's day to day, and can just hold on to the original for posterity.

As for the topper, yeah its a longshot I get a hold of one, but fortunately its also not deeply necessary for my part to maximize the experience- especially since its not motorized/animated like the AFMr one.

The rate things are going, the SE is going to be the *actual* Limited Edition,
Much the same as the standard stainless editions are on Jersey Jack games- that is, much fewer made and sold-
While the "standard" LE customers are the ones that have to wait the longest to get their games.
I can just see, once the LE sells out, a "monster edition" with different extras, numbered...etc.
Keep that money train rollin' in!

I don't see the same trend. Different games, but on Attack from Mars, arguably a better LE- at least from the topper perspective, the LE resale prices still really nosedived. As in, $1000 less, with some frequency.

I didn't see quite the same drop from the SE. Probably $500 less for HUO ones, on the rare occasion they came up. The SE to me is like the "best value" porridge bowl, especially if you can live without the topper. It's full featured, but without the $8300 price tag.

Also, in this day and age, it's rare for new pins to hold or appreciate in value. They're new big boy toys, not mutual funds. Maybe Munsters LE has a chance, especially if a color premium variant never gets released.

The stainless rails appear to be easily removable with screws. You can always buy a separate set of rails/legs from CGC and mail them to pinball refinery or your powder shop of choice. An hour of time or so in your home doing the switch-out, and you're back in the blue, where you would have been...without the LE wait or the undesirable lockdown graphic.

Those screws aren't likely "extra' but rather what holds them on instead of the mounting tape used by WPC to mount their rails back in the day.

They'll be on both stainless versions, not sure about the LE's though (though hopefully so, in case rails get damaged in shipping, etc- more fluid to replace, no need for hair dryers to melt the tape bond, etc etc).

Surprised it only took me a couple days to think about this but, where's the mylar where the ball drops from the launch? Did Chicago Gaming deem this unnecessary because of the extra thick clear, or because over the top in home environment, where most of these may go?

It's kind of strange that MB doesn't have a ball save for 5-10 seconds on launch by factory default. Anyone who know the game/history know why this might be the case? I know all Addams and early TZ don't by default but, later home TZ roms did?

My current plan is to leave it factory but I definitely miss the handicap from those moments I'm slightly unfocused when I'm just starting

No, probably gotta be stock of the topper, lockdown bar, powdered trim, or shaker.

Doesn't make sense they can keep pumping out SEs and CEs at will and not the LE unless it's an LE specific part shortage.

So the most likely reality is- they overshot demand on the CE and SE, that's why they're available, and they haven't sourced enough playfields to keep up with the LE. Had they "guessed right" on demand across the board, all 3 versions would be hard to get, and thered be more LEs in owners hands by today. #Facts

I know the patient LE owners might love this update, but I big-time disapprove of finding out there has been a covert, differential treatment best practice employed between the classes of the games. That the "rest of us" may have gotten a lesser playfield product than y'all will get- without our knowledge. Even if the "baseline" is "great."

Playfield quality, if unequal, should be part of the advertised product feature list, along with everything else like trim, topper and screen size (like buying a CPR Gold, Silver, Bronze). Otherwise, it should be equal treatment across the board.

As a consumer, it should be part of our spend considerations. To me, a better quality playfield can be of more value to a buyer than a topper.

As most CEs were bought for location, not as critical, but also a number of SE owners- mostly home use owners- would have opted for an LE if they knew they were buying a "silver" playfield and not a "gold."

Its not the existence of defects- or lack thereof- that's the moral problem here. This is pinball, a steel ball rolling, so, in a sense, we're all waiting for the proverbial hammer to fall. That includes LE and even HEP restore owners as well, assuming they intend to play their games at some point.

Whether it be a sign of ghosting, crazing, or your first broken plastic, nothing in life has any business being or staying perfect anyway. Though I admire the quest for greatness...in pinball, as in most things.

The issue here is the question of your odds of getting a product that's acceptable to you, the customer, right out of the box, and whose actually entitled to better odds for landing the best of the best playfields in the playfield lottery, if anyone, and why. Knowing also that every customer is different, and that quality comes at a very high expense.

If you bought an LE, your chances to be satisfied with what playfield you got are bona fide higher, out of box, based on what we learned last night. And the fact that you, an LE buyer, didn't pay for this "right" any more than I did as an SE buyer, that's at the heart of the moral problem here.

What you did pay more for was trim, topper, shaker, plaque, plasma disc and extra warranty. That's IT. Unless stated in the product catalog, all levels should have equal chances of winning or losing the playfield "lottery." Period.

That said, while a misprint or bleed to the side for most everyone may be a non-issue/acceptable deviation, through the lower center of the playfield could be quite another. And maybe not even then, on location. Or to a buyer who has somewhat poorer eyesight. It's a case by case question that should exist for CE, SE and LE buyer equally, unless otherwise stated as a bonus of your upgrade decision.

Right now, if you're an LE buyer, though you may have to wait, you already can be comfortable knowing you won, while someone else may have lost. To me, given that you didn't pay for this privilege any more than I or someone else with an SE or CE did, and that we weren't even given a chance to make the decision for ourselves at point of sale to opt-out of the "perfect playfield lottery" we fairly assumed all were subject to, I think that's just wrong. And I find that no less wrong, whether the SE or CE buyer in question ended up winning their own particular playfield lottery, or he/she lost.

As before the question isn't the quality of the lot, but rather what gives the LE owners the "right" to draw the best of the best while everyone else gets the seconds. Even if the seconds are "great" and well beyond the BW originals as a class.

It's just as serious- at least in some cases. There are some confirmed screen printing defects and the like on the SEs and CE models. Buyer tolerances and extremes of the defects will also vary.

Even Ryan has more or less stated that, after the fact, some of the playfields shipped in games were objectively rated as "unacceptable" by the company, though the vast majority beautiful.

Also, that results will be perfect every time- or consistently closer to perfect, for LE buyers, was also confirmed.

10 or 10,000 plays in, the screened art consistency doesn't change on a well maintained game.

An LE buyer can rest well knowing they'll get the best, whereas everyone else, turns out they'll be taking their chances at what they'll find when they open their boxes.

Industry standard practice is fine, just make sure the customer knows up front that this is the case so they can make an informed buying decision ahead of time.

SEs, however, are NOT markedly less collectible than LEs- nor much less expensive- and probably more likely to be in collectors hands than in arcades, especially those who prefer to manually chrome their trim to powder coat or toppers.

CEs of course should mostly be in arcades and I doubt buyers of this level would expect a premium machine at a commerical level cost.

People who are blindsided by the fact that all the best playfield prizes were out of their playfield lottery have a right to be unsatisfied. I and many of my SE peers are no less collectors for a $700 savings. Plus- the LEs aren't available unlimited. All we'd have asked for is fair disclosure, up front, so we could have made the right decision for our investments!

I wanted to chrome out my game vs. powder coat, didn't see the need/value for a lockdown bar graphic, inanimate topper, and quasi useful shaker motor.

In my view, the differentiation on this game from SE to LE was in the eye of the beholder and it wouldnt have been a financially sound one to mine.

Clearly the first class playfield ticket might have turned my head..or knowing the SE had no chance of getting one could have.

Too simplistic. Depends on the game. Some shipped SE and CE playfields have already been deemed unacceptable by CGC standards based on what Ryan wrote above, not just minor nitpicky stuff, and a frusrator the LE buyers won't have to deal with.

Sure, the classic buyers won't probably care unless the thing is in serious cosmetic trouble, but the SE buyers are a collectors market, not an arcade market, and deserved equal treatment as LE buyers unless told otherwise, and in advance.

Let's leave Stern out of this, shall we? Apples to oranges comparison. CGC is really trying to make best in the class product, and there's still some growing pains. I think this LE vs SE playfield quality control judgment call line shows just what one of those can look like.

As for Ghostbusters- that game was a quality control trainwreck and even more so for the LE- ghosting on the inserts everywhere, collapsing cabinets. They may have their act together now, but as Ryan said, they aren't using the same world class playfield processes in house over there..and the cabinetry from CGC is in another league.

Very impressive response. Well said.

I couldn't disagree more, actually. CGC did great with their disclosures, and so did we.

Yes, Pinside can be toxic at times, but this particular dialogue was open, honest and thoughtful on both sides. Maybe some threads havent been, but this thread wasn't some blind, pointless backlash. Where a few like you maybe saw banter, I saw progress.

While the narrative took an unexpected detour- CGC's transparency is a feather in their cap and the exact opposite of the duck-and-cover model I saw from Stern during the Ghostbusters debacle.

Businesses often pay a lot to learn how to help their customers. They couldn't have gotten this great of an experience from an actual focus group, and this one was free to own.

Had they instead filtered and hid some secret coded message behind their distributor network, this wouldn't have happened, and the LE customers would be no happier either.

This IS great business..

The takeaway I got today is that the grading differences are mostly imperceptible to the human eye, and not as big of a deal as I previously thought.

We aren't talking a Ghostbusters ghosted insert here, a crazed insert there, stuff that can "do in" a playfield in time, get out the door to an unlucky SE owner kind of thing.

Playfields with those kinds of "acceptable" defects at Stern would be firewood at CGC even in a CE. Automatically. A couple ink dots overprinted from the screen in remote areas of the game probably aren't this level of problem issue. Your game is and will stay amazing. If only the originals had it so perfect.

If you see an objectively major issue on arrival, and it makes you really unhappy, talk to CGC about it. This is still a human run business, and unacceptable playfield defects in their eyes can still sneak through an intensive, human led screening process, even on the LEs. Super duper unlikely! But very caring and passionate pinball people standing behind their products.

I admit I was taken aback badly hearing about the multiple levels at first, thinking many SE and CE owners had been bucked from a chance at an amazing playfield because they spent less, but not now that I know how close to the page they look with this sort of thing. And that the bar for a dud is set extremely low. It's not the level of scrutiny what we're used to from other manufacturers.

Don't think so, see above post

Right on. The playfield quality question raised was not about who- if anyone- had paid for the right to be free of a couple errant little black dots. That's what people who thought mindless pinside MBr owner CGC bashing was occuring failed to see.

It was about whether *real* issues like insert and clear problems were deemed SE or CE acceptable, because this is the lower quality standard we're kind of used to from other companies.

Such a thing would make sense to most of us, as the reason for holding up the LEs. And a perfectly valid concern, especially on the SE, a model that just as much as LE games (by and large), have been going into collector's homes. But this wasn't the reason for the LE delay. The shades of gray in playfield quality were so close to the page that nearly no one else on planet Earth would possibly know. But to CGC, they mattered, and they were worth fighting for.

So now that we know that material flaws are NOT acceptable to CGC, even for the CE level games, the effective mutual communication has resolved this concern once and for good.

If you have an actual major issue- rare, but possible- anything's possible with a handmade product- open a ticket and they'll make it right. Good stuff, great games

No, that cliffy was meant to be for an unprotected outhole.
You'd have to take off the CGC protector, which admittedly looks even better in this area.

They look terrific this way when done right, best in class, but perhaps even a milimeter or two of oversized cabinet relative to the decal creates this problem, requiring extra stretch to fit. I would think there would be tension tolerances.

So far, issue seems localized to the front. Any possibility of there being over tightening of the side rail(s) being at all at fault?

Random Public Service message for MBr owners- perhaps owners of previous CGCs know this, but I didn't think on it-

Be sure and TURN OFF the Power Saving GI feature in the rom from the standard menu (not the CG menu)
This was there in the 90s for regular incandescent bulbs- not for modern games with LEDs.

Moreover- I notice that the backbox speakers in my SE made a mild buzzing noise after 15 minutes with this feature engaged by default.

You'd have a Drac in your collection again...along with a Creech, and a few other monsters...

Very much so. Excellent game. Easy to play, difficult to master.
Just as hard to get to Monsters of Rock as to stack 3 multi's in BSD-
Even harder if you leave the default no ball save on (even BSD has a default ball save...)

Waiting on RGB trough lighting from Lermods, side decals from Silly Old Elf- I know Pingraffix is making interactive blades but,
Decided the sillyoldelf design was too perfect to pass up.

Expect to buy a Franks table at TPF from Mezel, and perhaps Pyramid mod if that's ready as well.

You can. Check your cabinet and decals before signing on the dotted line with your delivery driver or before you take it into your truck at the airport.

If you see any signs of cabinet shipping damage or cabinet decal manufacturer build defects, refuse delivery. A week or two later, a new replacement will come.

I know this is super annoying in particular for LE buyers who waited for so long but- this is pinball and that's how you protect yourself the best.

Given 50+ pages of posts without issue it should be fairly obvious this issue is still relatively rare, not merely undetected by most. But CHECK before you sign!! As this issue is always top front, just pop the box top and look.

Yeah, it's coming. Don't think twice on it. I'd bet on a TPF reveal since they won an award for ARMr powerblades last year. Just not sure at all what they'll look like. Decided, for my part, to go with the sillyoldelf design instead of waiting.

Of course, if they really blow me away, I reserve my right to change my mind.
I don't plan to install them till the show anyways-
But if all we get is an electrified version of what came before- the torch and pitchfork design- no thanks I'll pass...

Default no ball save. Open outlanes. Good luck reaching Monsters of Rock with any regularity then. Lightning flippers would make game ridiculous hard at that point.

Of course you could also drop to 6 for crazy side to side/outlane nightmares.

Buy a Lermods RGB trough lighting kit to assist with that...

Ok, so let me show my SE with a November build date. It does NOT appear my right decal has been pulled over the corner. Nor the left decal over the other. Seems to end slightly before the edge on both sides. Zero apparent decal damage, beautiful install. There appears to be a thick "fold" to tuck in the front decal within the left or right side of the side decal- depending on the side looked at.

Btw- the other MBr examples with the slight decal damage that I've seen here on Pinside- they don't look like the decals final "resting spot" has been "extremely" pulled over the corners either- unlike that AfM on the previous page. Just slight overpulls to the upper corners where the side rails meet the decal.

Either way, its not as though the corners on any of the games I've seen- as such- should play much more of a part in pulling these decals apart further through natural wood shifting and the like.
IMG_20190201_115624 (resized).jpgIMG_20190201_120028 (resized).jpg

This observation doesn't seem to be entirely accurate.

Look at the AFMr example posted from the previous page. The decal process definitely appears very different, from the AFMr run this game came from.

Either that, or the front line "mistake" in decaling, shown here, was way worse.

Yes, the front decal is wrapped over the right corner on the underside of the right decal a bit, however- in the AFMr example,
The right decal is clearly wrapped an inch or two OVER the right corner as well, not just ending where the cabinet seam lies,
But pulling toward the front of the cabinet.

I would venture its this right decal OVERWRAP over the corne- from right to center- that's the chief offender for decal tear,
With way too much decal thickness at the corner the result.

And appears to be slightly the case too at the top corners- slight corner overwrap near the siderails- on the MBr examples with the tears at the top as well.
afm (resized).jpg

Actually- look closely at the AFMr example pictured- BOTH front and right decals appear to be wrapped over the corner.

As for your MBR- I believe the decal may have been over-tugged by the installer near the rail during install, or the side rail was screwed down too tight.

And YET- I strongly believe the harm would halt here.

I doubt wood "shifting" and the front decal wrapped over the corner caused this to a right decal that "meets" at the corner but doesn't wrap it.

And how would additional pulling on the right decal on your game occur- to aggravate it anywhere near this AFMr?

It doesn't have BOTH decals wrapped over the corner.

On my SE, the front decal folds over the right corner, and under the right decal- which ends AT the corner
The AFMrLE front decal appears folded over the right corner, under the right decal,
Then the right decal is folded over the right corner as well, then almost a half inch "in," overlapping the front

There appears to be a thicker "fold" on the side decal near the front
to accommodate the front decal folding over the corner, but under the side decal-
So clearly, the manufacture process was done this way by design.

That's true, but these also aren't the same decals as well.

They have thicker folds on each side to accommodate the decal from the front.

Something has to give for the occasional glitch- in my view, its either the installer or the tolerances of the decal/cabinet in question.

Personally I just think if the cabinet wood is too wide by a millimeter relative to the decal, the decal is a millimeter too short or too thin- different tolerances, different result.

Either way, without the right decal being folded OVER the corner, the damage result should be minimal by an install mis-fit vis a vis AFMr.

Side note- can't believe we'd give props to original MB decals direct or by implication.
The original MB decals were notorious for being a "hit" show around the legs

Perhaps, but again, its being placed over it on the UNDERSIDE, unlike AFMr..so no major tugging should be occurring after the fact on the RIGHT decal from the cabinet itself- which ISNT being placed over the corner- just meets the edge. Sure its a tiny bit thicker on that spot, but the decal was MADE THICKER in that spot to accommodate it, plus the corner itself isn't tugging the right decal backwards and to the right...

Id raise an eyebrow if the right side of the FRONT decal showed tearing, the one pulled over the corner..but that hasn't been the case.

$4,000 in 1998 is equivalent in purchasing power to $6,165.23 in 2019. For that money you got a MB classic stock without LEDs. Today, $6300 delivered today gets you a NIB with LEDs and modern boards. So basically, if you figure the value of what you pay for additional, the game today costs the same.

Have yet to hear of anyone report them spontaneously "forming." Hopefully I won't be the first Seems to all be out of box apparent, so far.

The wood working expert testimony is all well and good, but if we take the above as true, all that's left is the decals, the cabinet, and the side rails. Something's gotta be out of calibration there on the games with these issues vs. the majority/minty ones, including the ones for AFMr that HAVEN'T been developing these issues.

So far we haven't had any reports of flawless decals later splitting.

Either way I'm very sorry to hear.

Curious if this happened to *both* sides each and every very time, or if some just have one side affected.

Regardless, for the 58+ pages of thread owners that didn't report issues, I hope there haven't been any and it's localized to a factory install issue, which hopefully is or will soon be resolved.

I think when we find out what's really the reason for these accidents we'll all look like I did when I found out how CGC assesses playfield quality. Like we never had a clue.

All these so called design weaknesses/freight strap tensions, etc have been present for these machines the entire run of the game to date, but only in the past couple days has this issue come to light, and presumably only on recent unboxings.

Surely something else must have changed from the first 58+ pages of flaw free decal games to the very recent games, right, be it install process, quality of decal, etc?

At this point- on that note, I think I'll disengage. In truth we're all probably just spinning our wheels, hoping to make the affected have some clarity and the unaffected feel more secure. It's really outside our pay grades. Kind of like grading their playfields

Yes, on MBR, it actually is. Past week's new news. But these examples may have the same flaw factor in common. It just might not be what we think. Anyways, totally above my pay grade.

Y'all are killing me. We have yet had a single reported case of confirmed flawless decals later getting damaged by supposed cabinet shift. Which, given 58+ pages of flawless MBr cabinets, with I'm sure a fair few on location getting absolutely whaled on by the general public, seems to me to be super unlikely.

Till then, and definitely till CGC chimes in, I wouldn't mutilate a set of mint decals. I bet you'd end up doing so for a reason that has nothing to do with the actual cause of these damage cases. No matter how persuasive the suggested reasons by woodworking experts- ones that didn't design this actual build of materials for CGC.

That game was clearly dropped or otherwise mishandled in freight. Way beyond CGC's control. That's what shipping insurance and your disty is for.

As for the cracks, as before, this is a phenomena on some of the most recent MBR games. Not apparently on MBRs that delivered prior to this past week or so.

Something's probably changed recently and hopefully soon we'll hear it's been discovered and remedied.

Ok so what's the alternative then folks. Obviously CGC didn't pack this game with broken bits and cabinet wood dings.

This is very sad but the fact is this game in particular was mistreated by the carrier. Joe@PinballStar told me recently carrier incidents are on the rise recently so don't skimp on the insurance and use a carrier with a good track record. Don't sign till you're sure your game is ok. Keep a few bucks on you for the driver to wait.

This goes WAY beyond the recent decal issue, folks.

I'm going with -6 right now.
For me -7 felt a touch too soft to feel like the shots were satisfying. I never tried -8, for that matter.
Of course, every game could be slightly different.

Pardon this long response, yall.
But if you stick with it and hear me out,
I think you'll see what I've been getting at here is both good and thoughtful.

#1
I never said this situation was isolated like a one-off. Please don't misunderstand...
Ive been saying that decal cracks on MBr decals seem isolated on MBr to the past week or so's deliveries.
No one has shown evidence to the contrary on this point,
And YES this issue has existed in the past on AFMr and MMr.
There's no denying that fact either.

But this is apparently a NEW issue to the MBR production run...it just started popping up on our radar this week.
This fact alone could also be an informative clue to CGC to find the ACTUAL source of the problem and fix it, once and for all.

For example, say in the past week or two they changed something in the build process-
Perhaps a different cabinet part manufacturer is 'covering' for an out of stock primary supplier- one they've used in the past..

Everyone's been blaming the seams in the cabinets-
But for the first 3+ months or so, the cabinets- as they were built-
The seams haven't been shown to have caused any harm to MBR games actually built,
So surely something else- a recent change or a return to previous build method-
Must be the cause of this defect rearing its ugly head again??

#2
My second goal here is to level-set expectations based on facts-
And by doing so also help warn buyers to CHECK the tops of their games before unboxing and signing on the dotted line.
The crazy thing is- I've been warning people to check before signing for days,
and here we are, people still taking signed possession of games before checking.
Then people here are down and out. People who have been monitoring these posts and these warnings to check.
What's the point of this thread if people ignore our good advice. I don't get it.

#3
As for disengaging, the night I said that there was heated discussion on and I needed to go to sleep.
Part of the club, its only right to thoughtfully contribute where I can.

Something seems rotten in the state of Denmark here.
I'm not sure what to believe...

Just as likely to believe shipper tampering after the incident to try and cover up the shipper dropping the freight.

But if this was really allowed at the factory I'm sure CGC will investigate/raise hell over it,
It goes to the very essence of their jobs to approve pinball machines for shipment that meet new in box standards,
And the buyer should be made whole- period.

Just pop the top and check the front of the cabinet before you unbox and sign!!
If its got cracks- refuse delivery! Another will come!

Who is this guy? He downvotes nearly every post of mine as well and doesn't comment as to why. Most recently I just posted that the LE with the bits, if factory injured and approved in badly injured condition, should be replaced by CGC with a new game if he wants one.

I mean seriously, what does he want me to say instead?

He even downvoted my opinion on flipper sensitivity.

I mean, what??! There's nothing objectionable there.

I never said that it should. I think you should be made whole for the decal tears- no questions asked.
Absolutely unacceptable.

As for the other damages- if this really happened at the factory, I think it should be remedied by the Company-
I cant believe such injury would be allowable and signed off by anyone let alone possibly multiple people.

Its just beyond my experience to see NIB items with quality control approvals on cabinet dings, broken bits and the like-
I'd just as likely believe the shipper injured/tampered with your package under such circumstances.

I hope- either way- you're made whole and in double time speed.

Understand. Yet, no one has cracked the nut as to why then for 3+ months no decal cuts surface on MBRs, then all of a sudden here they come, one NIB game after another. And never subsequent to looking good out of the box due to "cabinet shift" theory.

All that's changed that we know of for sure in that time is the weather.

They changed the cabinet wrap process in a major way since AFMR. So its actually off topic to the situation in this thread.

Ive been speaking narrowly this whole time to the conditions that impact MBR..

Anyways, y'all can believe what you want to about what's to blame for the issues, however..

Its all water under the bridge now. The games impacted are being addressed, and moving forward there's not going to be cabinet wrapping- in line with the current model at Stern and/or elsewhere.
well-there-it-is (resized).jpg

It is. That makes all the difference, the tensions and the tolerances changed with the new wrap process, and its been holding up fine with every MBr game sold so far, including with pounding on location.

Drop a week of -20 degrees on Chicago/elsewhere on a week's worth of deliveries and, well, the rest is history and now, future history.

No more wrapped cabinets..

The topper has been shipping with the game without cabinet incidents for months.
The extreme weather impacted the decal at the joint.

Forget powdercoating aftermarket- Pinball plating and more. Chrome it out. The true gold standard on Bally Williams style games...
Never been into BW with the powdercoat look.

Has the topper even been confirmed to work on the SE through the backbox for interactive lighting?
Seems silly to get it if it doesn't.

People have "said" its been reported locked out of the SE and CE,
But that wasn't the case with the plasma disc port..
My hunch is- it, too, would- and should- work.

Especially for an aftermarket topper, since obviously the LE toppers selling separate are gonna be very rare..

13?! That's even possible? Dial it down to 7.2 for perfection

Got a spare Pinstadium Deluxe Kit fully loaded with UV Glow, GI module, and glare guards. $240 (discounted from $270).
Will really brighten up your SE/LE.
Confirmed ready to go for Monster Bash Remake, Attack from Mars Remake, etc.
No waiting- I can ship tomorrow.

Update- sold

If both games were $8K per LE I'd have gotten a POTC too but the extra 2 bills, just couldn't for a game with a partial license. No matter how beautiful or decked out.

The gent who delivered my game waited and didn't request a tip or seem in any hurry whatsoever.
He was relaxing on the sofa, enjoying the can of coke I put in his hand.

I didn't go all the way through testing...but I did get it on its legs and power on before I gave the all clear

Don't forget Craig also should have some sheets of HD glass!

That's how they all look. From the sides, anyway. So long as it isn't cracked- and those are in the single digits percent wise according to CGC- that's actually the best look the game can have.

The wrapped corners on MBr are done from the front underneath the sides. Now, if the front looks like you can see the white edges or some black- well, then, the change has been made in that way.

However- it was my general understanding that when the change got made, we'd see black cabinet a little from the edge on all sides. Much the same as a modern Stern.

Personally, I hope CGC identified a manufacturing issue in the decals themselves being wrapped in the games with the problem or in the wrapping process itself and remedied it instead, outside of the localized deep freeze weather issue- the wrapped look really is amazing aesthetically.

Good luck with that

-7 on the flippers in CGC menu, turn off power saver GI in the Bally Williams Menu.

It's for old school incandescents not LEDs and if on causes an annoying humming noise in the backbox after the game is sitting in attract mode for the designated period of time.

It's a vestige of the original code that would have not "ridden along" has the entire code been rewritten.

7.2 on mine for the win. Go no lower than 7. A few may disagree but this is a game that can take bash airballs so I'd say 7 minimum to keep that down a bit.

As for left ramp- play better. Lol

Right orbit should return to flipper but given it's coming from the pop bumper lottery there's no total guarantee.

My favorite call-out is actually when the bride screams in horror when the ball goes down left outlane on ball 3 with Monster Bash lit. You hate missing the party, but the callout is absolutely process.

I think the game is the sweet spot of difficulty of any BW90s game I've ever owned. And I'm a decent player.

Easy to get into, a good game gets you Monster Bash, once in every few months you may reach Monsters of Rock. I've done that less per play than I stacked 3 multiballs in BSD.

Myself, I've only reached MoR once. I got close once as well (5/6 instruments).

Does MoR fundamentally feel like a different "concert experience" than Monster Bash mode?

While it should (though it isn't), the scoring sure does, and all in all the mode feels like the true wizard mode endgame because of it..

Had this been coded today, almost certainly it would have too. Ie, there should be a monsters of Rock song, or the monsters shouldn't play their instruments during Monster Bash- except maybe the ones collected.

But this is part of pinball history..

Better players than me. Stacking is obvious but doesn't happen automatic when certain modes like Wolfman and Dracula almost can't help from starting..

It's interesting, despite these wishes said- this is still, right now, rated on Pinside as THE greatest pin of all time....

Actually, it gets used during Mosh Pit Multiball. Wait, I see this was already noted by another. Nevermind!

Ordered my first PDI sheet for MBR. Excited

Turn off GI Power Saver- Williams menu settings.

Before and After PDI glass installed in my Special Edition You can't even see the ramp and the monsters through the blurr of the regular glass..the difference is like night and day.

IMG_20190316_095546 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20190316_104052 (resized).jpg

1) Ask Joey what his best deal is on 1 sheet or more.
2) Email Joey at Pinball Decals [email protected].
3) Buy sparkle glass cleaner and lint free microfiber towels. Spray the sparkle to the towel not to the glass. Wipe/clean towel, dry towel. Or just buy Joey's PDI cleaning kit. Stay away from standard Windex like the plague...

The quality spectrum having owned all 3 types:

1) PDI- 10/10 the best, special process made/cured.
2) Invisiglass- 7/10 very good but its coating can be prone to wear, green tint.
3) Stern- 5/10 lukewarm improvements over a regular sheet, purple tint.

There's actual studies on the products head to head all over Pinside, and there's a measured difference between all three.

Most of the sophisticated pinheads I know that buy optical glass buy PDI every time. With enough cash to buy the best, I decided this time I'd just go for it. I wasn't dissapointed I did.

But really, I was impressed by Invisglass too. I just noticed on my Hobbit a green tint and a little edge wear. That said, I wasn't first owner of that game, so I can't account for it's prior care. But from what I've heard about the processes that make all 3, PDI's coating should be the best of the lot.

Personally, I wasn't satisfied with my Stern HD sheet when I had one. But that was just me, and I'm sure environmental factors matter as well.

Glad both products seem identical to you. I hold to my statement above. Check the research, or trust opinions. It's up to a potential buyer to decide which way to go.

Yikes. Side note- here's the research on the PDI vs. Invisiglass glass performance differences from Pinball News. An actual test study, not opinions.

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html

Met him at the show as well. Ryan's good people. CGC as a whole really exudes passion for the collector.

Or maybe not. MB might be the most difficult playfield to screen of all time. It's all easier and more efficient from here..

I forgot the exact number but the layers in the screening process on MB is by far the most of any modern era pin.
The monsters all next to each other on the lower playfield for one, all colored very differently..
If they wanted to do lower quality digital printing, it wouldn't matter-

But the richness of the screen print product, its CGC's calling card-
The last standing manufacturer that makes PFs the old fashioned way..

THIS is the reason if you're on the fence I think you should buy a Monster Bash Remake now.

If I'm CGC, I look closely at the bottom line for the game with this playfield expense, now realized, and I definitely could get interested to retire it and move on to the next big title.

I have no view to their books, but I gotta think of all 3 games so far- this has to be the least profitable after one takes into account the licensing and playfield costs.

Medieval Madness is going back into production in the near future. Perhaps they ramp it up and ramp down MB, especially once all the LEs are out the door, before the next game comes on the like. A transition product..