Monster Bash Remake (MBr) Owners Club (with Poll & Pics)

(Topic ID: 222461)

Monster Bash Remake (MBr) Owners Club (with Poll & Pics)


By MrSanRamon

6 months ago



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  • 332 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by sgorsuch
  • Topic is favorited by 134 Pinsiders

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“Monster Bash Remake (MBr) Owners Club (with Poll & Pics)”

  • I'm in on a CE 27 votes
    6%
  • I'm in on a SE 65 votes
    14%
  • I'm in on a LE 245 votes
    53%
  • I'm out for now 121 votes
    26%

(458 votes)

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There are 3709 posts in this topic. You are on page 52 of 75.
45
#2551 28 days ago

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.

As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.

I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.

We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).

We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.

The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.

We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.

I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

#2552 28 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

Thanks Ryan for the update.

Robert

#2553 28 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.
As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.
I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.
We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).
We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.
The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.
We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.
I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

I knew you guys would chime in eventually. Well done. Appreciate the update and your clear passion for making those LEs as nice as possible
Not sure I've heard of a manufacturer looking at the pf quality for LEs different than what's approved for non LEs and I really like that.

Thanks again

-1
#2554 28 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.
As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.
I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.
We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).
We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.
The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.
We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.
I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

Now was that so hard?

#2555 28 days ago

I want to thank @doug_duba and @cgc-ryan for reaching out personally and providing a very detailed public update. This helps us appreciate the personal attention CGC is showing us and that they are showing their dedication to the old school ways of recreating our machines, and living with the problems that go along with it.

Bublehead

#2556 28 days ago

I've been patiently waiting and keeping an eye on this thread and while I may not have been complaining about the delays publicly I just wanted to chime in to say I still very much appreciate the update and the commitment to quality output.

#2557 28 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.
As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.
I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.
We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).
We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.
The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.
We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.
I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

Good to hear. How many LEs do you expect to produce per week now? Have you guys given any thought to improving delivery time estimates? It's nice to hear things are improving, but I still have no idea when I can expect my game.

12
#2558 28 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I knew you guys would chime in eventually. Well done. Appreciate the update and your clear passion for making those LEs as nice as possible
Not sure I've heard of a manufacturer looking at the pf quality for LEs different than what's approved for non LEs and I really like that.
Thanks again

I know the patient LE owners might love this update, but I big-time disapprove of finding out there has been a covert, differential treatment best practice employed between the classes of the games. That the "rest of us" may have gotten a lesser playfield product than y'all will get- without our knowledge. Even if the "baseline" is "great."

Playfield quality, if unequal, should be part of the advertised product feature list, along with everything else like trim, topper and screen size (like buying a CPR Gold, Silver, Bronze). Otherwise, it should be equal treatment across the board.

As a consumer, it should be part of our spend considerations. To me, a better quality playfield can be of more value to a buyer than a topper.

As most CEs were bought for location, not as critical, but also a number of SE owners- mostly home use owners- would have opted for an LE if they knew they were buying a "silver" playfield and not a "gold."

#2559 28 days ago

Doug_duba said the secret of figuring when yours will ship is determined by what distributor you bought from and how big their allotment is and where you fall on that distributors list. For me that works out to third week in February by CGC's current estimate. I believe their production rate goal is still around 70 +/- 5 machines a week when there are no issues. Check with your distributor for more info on where you fall on their allotment list, because total allotment size is the kind of privy type of info the distributors may not want out in public.

#2560 27 days ago

I picked up #349 from the FedEx hub on Friday (I could have had it delivered Monday, but who wants to wait?). The build date is listed as 1/11/2019. Melissa told me CGC contacts them as soon as a machine reaches the plant dock.

Out of the box the game plays perfectly. The flipper power is set to -6 based on comments posted here. The neighbor who helped me get the game into the basement was over yesterday and I couldn't get him off the machine! He has helped me move games in the past and MBR is clearly his favorite.

An issue that I found prior to playing involved the playfield. While waxing, I noticed multiple areas with 1" diameter haze spots in the clear. This is typical in the auto industry when defects in the clear are removed with a super fine abrasive, that is what I suspect happened here. I used Novus 2 and a small orbital buffer to remove the marks and now the playfield looks perfect.

It was a minor PIA and something the plant should have caught, however I am very happy with the game and glad I did not jump ship. Having participated in purchasing a MMR LE, I am more than familiar with everyone's frustration and understand why you would want to bail. However, if MB is a game you have always wanted, CGC has knocked it out of the park. Let them correct their playfield issues and keep in mind that it wasn't too long ago that people thought this machine would never be made again.

#2561 27 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.
As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.
I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.
We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).
We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.
The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.
We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.
I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

Thanks for the update I’m willing to wait for a superior quality LE then have any issues

#2562 27 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.
As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.
I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.
We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).
We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.
The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.
We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.
I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

Thanks for the update! Waiting for my L E hasen't been an issue for me. If waiting and being patient results in a better quality and problem free product then so be it.

#2563 27 days ago
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:

I want to provide a quick update on Monster Bash production. First off, I apologize for the delays in LE production.
As many of you know, we manufacture all of our playfields in house. Each MB playfield is carefully hand silk screened with ten spot colors. This is how the original playfields were manufactured. The spot colors create a color spectrum far richer and wider than what can be produced using four-color process. Each playfield we produce is a unique handcrafted piece of art with its own unique characteristics.
I believe we are the only pinball machine manufacturer still utilizing spot colors on our playfields. Some have moved away from screen printing altogether and now digitally print their playfields in four-color process. Digitally printing is certainly more consistent and far less expensive but it comes with certain compromises.
We are trying to keep the bar as high as possible and not compromise quality. I believe with few exceptions the playfields we have shipped in every Monster Bash have been beautiful. We do hold even higher standards for playfields going into LEs. To date, our production has yielded less LE worthy playfields than we hoped. As a result, we have produced more SEs and CEs than originally scheduled (and less LEs).
We have made several changes in the screen printing process and we are finally seeing much improved results. These results are starting to allowing us to move more quickly through production of LEs.
The number of people participating in our serial number matching program far exceeded our expectations - there were 246 participants in total.
We are anticipating completing all domestic serial number matching program LEs by February 1, 2019. After that we will focus on the balance of domestic and international LEs.
I want to thank everyone for their support and allowing us to do work that we love.

so the subpar le playfields were put in se ce's,why not hold the same high standards for all 3 models as that sucks if you dont,just like ya didnt mind sending out mm dodgy playfields in MMR LE machines.pfft cgc

#2564 27 days ago

Anyone have an example of a subpar playfield in thier new MB? Interested in seeing whats being asked about here.

#2565 27 days ago

At the risk of opening a can of worms and blowing everything out of proportion... my AFMr SE playfield is less than perfect. It doesn't bother me; even if it did, what would I do? No way I'm going to deal with a playfield swap or sending the entire machine back, as this is my first NIB machine and second machine in total. The hassle of that far outweighs what I might gain.

I certainly chalk this up to variations as these are all hand-made like CGC says, so not every playfield will be absolutely perfect. If you're a perfectionist and won't deal with anything less, this definitely isn't the hobby for you.

The "defects" are all in the silkscreening. There is a white spot, and little lines where only the dark gray silkscreening didn't seem to adhere, but not in all areas. The most obvious is a tiny patch/splotch, first picture. You can't see the faint lines unless you're looking for them with your face pressed to the glass.

There is also a shallow scratch, in the last image. I really can't say for sure whether I caused this or it was always there, but I didn't notice it until about a month after owning the machine. Again, this is only noticeable with my face pressed to the glass.

I'm sure many other SE owners have perfect playfields. Outliers always exist, and do not represent the quality as a whole.

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#2566 27 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

I know the patient LE owners might love this update, but I big-time disapprove of finding out there has been a covert, different treatment in quality between the classes of the games. Even if the "baseline" is "great."
Playfield quality if unequal should be part of the advertised product feature list, along with everything else like trim, topper and screen size (like buying a CPR Gold, Silver, Bronze). Otherwise, it should be equal treatment across the board.
As a consumer, it should be part of our spend considerations. To me, a better quality playfield can be of more value to a buyer than a topper.

I have had my SE since the end of november and I have seen no flaws in the playfield. Sure glad I got mine before they started putting lesser quality playfields in the SE and CE machines. Agree with you on making it known about the playfield quality. Why don’t they use the lesser playfields to make factory seconds and sell them at a discounted price? Good for CGC for wanting to step up and make the LE’s perfect, but that sucks for the non LE buyers.

#2567 27 days ago
Quoted from ctviss:

At the risk of opening a can of worms and blowing everything out of proportion... my AFMr SE playfield is less than perfect. It doesn't bother me; even if it did, what would I do? No way I'm going to deal with a playfield swap or sending the entire machine back, as this is my first NIB machine and second machine in total. The hassle of that far outweighs what I might gain.
I certainly chalk this up to variations as these are all hand-made like CGC says, so not every playfield will be absolutely perfect. If you're a perfectionist and won't deal with anything less, this definitely isn't the hobby for you.
The "defects" are all in the silkscreening. There is a white spot, and little lines where only the dark gray silkscreening didn't seem to adhere, but not in all areas. The most obvious is a tiny patch/splotch, first picture. You can't see the faint lines unless you're looking for them with your face pressed to the glass.
There is also a shallow scratch, in the last image. I really can't say for sure whether I caused this or it was always there, but I didn't notice it until about a month after owning the machine. Again, this is only noticeable with my face pressed to the glass.
I'm sure many other SE owners have perfect playfields. Outliers always exist, and do not represent the quality as a whole.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Its not the existence of defects- or lack thereof- that's the moral problem here. This is pinball, a steel ball rolling, so, in a sense, we're all waiting for the proverbial hammer to fall. That includes LE and even HEP restore owners as well, assuming they intend to play their games at some point.

Whether it be a sign of ghosting, crazing, or your first broken plastic, nothing in life has any business being or staying perfect anyway. Though I admire the quest for greatness...in pinball, as in most things.

The issue here is the question of your odds of getting a product that's acceptable to you, the customer, right out of the box, and whose actually entitled to better odds for landing the best of the best playfields in the playfield lottery, if anyone, and why. Knowing also that every customer is different, and that quality comes at a very high expense.

If you bought an LE, your chances to be satisfied with what playfield you got are bona fide higher, out of box, based on what we learned last night. And the fact that you, an LE buyer, didn't pay for this "right" any more than I did as an SE buyer, that's at the heart of the moral problem here.

What you did pay more for was trim, topper, shaker, plaque, plasma disc and extra warranty. That's IT. Unless stated in the product catalog, all levels should have equal chances of winning or losing the playfield "lottery." Period.

That said, while a misprint or bleed to the side for most everyone may be a non-issue/acceptable deviation, through the lower center of the playfield could be quite another. And maybe not even then, on location. Or to a buyer who has somewhat poorer eyesight. It's a case by case question that should exist for CE, SE and LE buyer equally, unless otherwise stated as a bonus of your upgrade decision.

Right now, if you're an LE buyer, though you may have to wait, you already can be comfortable knowing you won, while someone else may have lost. To me, given that you didn't pay for this privilege any more than I or someone else with an SE or CE did, and that we weren't even given a chance to make the decision for ourselves at point of sale to opt-out of the "perfect playfield lottery" we fairly assumed all were subject to, I think that's just wrong. And I find that no less wrong, whether the SE or CE buyer in question ended up winning their own particular playfield lottery, or he/she lost.

#2568 27 days ago

Even the original Williams/Bally playfields had variability between games. This is the nature of a hand made, custom work of pinball art. I’d still rather have a remake playfield made with the original ten step silkscreen process by hand, in the same factory as the originals, than the fancy printer version from Germany, as nice as those are. I’ve owned the other remakes and am familiar with this, and originals as well. The LE I’ve played locally is simply exceptional. If the standard for playfield production is at the same level on average, I’m guessing the differences are pretty minor and a win-win for everyone.

#2569 27 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Even the original Williams/Bally playfields had variability between games. This is the nature of a hand made, custom work of pinball art. I’d still rather have a remake playfield made with the original ten step silkscreen process by hand, in the same factory as the originals, than the fancy printer version from Germany, as nice as those are. I’ve owned the other remakes and am familiar with this, and originals as well. The LE I’ve played locally is simply exceptional. If the standard for playfield production is at the same level on average, I’m guessing the differences are pretty minor and a win-win for everyone.

As before the question isn't the quality of the lot, but rather what gives the LE owners the "right" to draw the best of the best while everyone else gets the seconds. Even if the seconds are "great" and well beyond the BW originals as a class.

#2570 27 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I knew you guys would chime in eventually.

I reached out to CGC yesterday and asked them to give an update, and only a few hours after that the update came.

Robert

#2571 27 days ago

Unless there is a serious problem with the clear, mismatches, raised inserts, crazing, etc, I don’t think this is going to add up to anything. It is unfortunate that it sounds like there is some cherry picking, as they should all be held to the same standards. I’m just saying that all playfields become used with dimples that turn into orange peel finish that become smooth again with time, from thousands of plays. Even the playfield protectors do not keep things perfect, or high end restorations, or anything really. Your new machine will become used as soon as you open it. If concerned, go for the LE, but I’d be willing to bet this will end up normal variation, even on LEs.

#2572 27 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Unless there is a serious problem with the clear, mismatches, raised inserts, crazing, etc, I don’t think this is going to add up to anything. It is unfortunate that it sounds like there is some cherry picking as they should all be held to the same standards. I’m just saying that all playfields become used with dimples that turn into orange peel finish that become smooth again with time from thousands of plays. Even the playfield protectors do not keep things perfect, or high end restorations, or anything really. Your new machine will become used as soon as you open it.

It's just as serious- at least in some cases. There are some confirmed screen printing defects and the like on the SEs and CE models. Buyer tolerances and extremes of the defects will also vary.

Even Ryan has more or less stated that, after the fact, some of the playfields shipped in games were objectively rated as "unacceptable" by the company, though the vast majority beautiful.

Also, that results will be perfect every time- or consistently closer to perfect, for LE buyers, was also confirmed.

10 or 10,000 plays in, the screened art consistency doesn't change on a well maintained game.

An LE buyer can rest well knowing they'll get the best, whereas everyone else, turns out they'll be taking their chances at what they'll find when they open their boxes.

#2573 27 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

There are some confirmed screen printing defects and the like on the SEs and CE models. Buyer tolerances and extremes of the defects will vary by user. But the LEs screen results will be perfect every time. Or consistently closer to perfect. 10 or 10,000 plays in, the screened art consistency doesn't change on a well maintained game. The fact that the SE and CE buyer draws in the lottery but LE buyer doesnt- that's the bigger problem.

Ok, well I respect your points. I get what you are saying and if there are printing defects, I agree they need to be addressed for every model.

#2574 27 days ago

Does anyone know when the TOP 100 list will have the remakes updated into an "MB group" (currently ranked at #3), similar to MM and AFM? is there a minimum number of ranks of the remakes required for them to enter?

48
#2575 27 days ago

It is a current industry wide practice to have higher standards on playfields going into more expensive LEs.

Subpar playfield are stripped and rescreened or discarded and not used in any model.

We have been making playfields since 1977 and assembling pinball machines for less than two years. Remarkably producing playfields still remains our biggest challenge.

Quality expectations of collectors greatly exceed those of the operators that originally purchased the games.

If I built a time machine and brought brand new Williams machines from 1998 to the present, they wouldn’t meet the expectations of some collectors.

We have three original Monster Bash playfields in house and there are significant variances between the three. We would have rejected one playfield and the other two would not meet our standards for an LE.

The playfield is the backbone of a pinball machine, it is perhaps the most important component. We are very focused on producing outstanding playfields.

#2576 27 days ago

Thanks for the clarification Doug! I'm sure as you know some people are never satisfied!

#2577 27 days ago
Quoted from Doug_Duba:

It is a current industry wide practice to have higher standards on playfields going into more expensive LEs.
Subpar playfield are stripped and rescreened or discarded and not used in any model.
We have been making playfields since 1977 and assembling pinball machines for less than two years. Remarkably producing playfields still remains our biggest challenge.
Quality expectations of collectors greatly exceed those of the operators that originally purchased the games.
If I built a time machine and brought brand new Williams machines from 1998 to the present, they wouldn’t meet the expectations of some collectors.
We have three original Monster Bash playfields in house and there are significant variances between the three. We would have rejected one playfield and the other two would not meet our standards for an LE.
The playfield is the backbone of a pinball machine, it is perhaps the most important component. We are very focused on producing outstanding playfields.

Industry standard practice is fine, just make sure the customer knows up front that this is the case so they can make an informed buying decision ahead of time.

SEs, however, are NOT markedly less collectible than LEs- nor much less expensive- and probably more likely to be in collectors hands than in arcades, especially those who prefer to manually chrome their trim to powder coat or toppers.

CEs of course should mostly be in arcades and I doubt buyers of this level would expect a premium machine at a commerical level cost.

#2578 27 days ago
Quoted from Tradesman:

Thanks for the clarification Doug! I'm sure as you know some people are never satisfied!

People who are blindsided by the fact that all the best playfield prizes were out of their playfield lottery have a right to be unsatisfied. I and many of my SE peers are no less collectors for a $700 savings. Plus- the LEs aren't available unlimited. All we'd have asked for is fair disclosure, up front, so we could have made the right decision for our investments!

#2579 27 days ago
Quoted from Doug_Duba:

The playfield is the backbone of a pinball machine, it is perhaps the most important component.

This is exactly why this should have been disclosed. None of the promotional materials disclosed this standard. When deciding which model to buy, knowing the quality of the playfield printing would be priority #1 for me.

#2580 27 days ago

I agree with a the above posters. If LEs are going to include the highest quality blemish free playfield, I would want to know that in advance.

I remain very interested in future CGC re-makes and knowing the LEs would have the highest standard PF would definitely influence my buying decision.
I don’t think Stern nor JJP differentiate between their LE playfields and the other editions.

Regardless, I have seen and played both AFM and MM remakes and they do look and play great. Looking forward to giving the MBR a spin as well.

#2581 27 days ago
Quoted from Doug_Duba:

If I built a time machine and brought brand new Williams machines from 1998 to the present, they wouldn’t meet the expectations of some collectors.
We have three original Monster Bash playfields in house and there are significant variances between the three. We would have rejected one playfield and the other two would not meet our standards for an LE.

Doug is a good guy and this really captures the commitment CGC has to creating a great product. Thanks for posting here!

#2582 27 days ago
Quoted from JMK:

I agree with a the above posters. If LEs are going to include the highest quality blemish free playfield, I would want to know that in advance.

That would be great additional promo bullet point for the LE models and does help to re-enforce my purchase of the LE versions of CGC games.

#2583 27 days ago

For the SE guys expressing frustration - I do understand your point You seem to be very particular though about the machine which leads me to something I don't understand. If you're that particular how in the world do you not get the LE version of this game? So much more value and you get the definitive version that it appears you're looking for.

#2584 27 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

People who are blindsided by the fact that all the best playfield prizes were out of their playfield lottery have a right to be unsatisfied. I and many of my SE peers are no less collectors for a $700 savings. Plus- the LEs aren't available unlimited. All we'd have asked for is fair disclosure, up front, so we could have made the right decision for our investments!

This ^^

I opted for an SE for the reason of nit having room for the topper and notneeding that. the trim, although very nice, i also
choose the $$ savings. i added to my SE.(side decals , plasma mod)
However, had i known that Playfields were also a factor, i would have chosen the best (ie: LE)
imho, this should be clarified on the webpage with differences between the trim levels.

Im rather shocked and diasappointed that this is or wasnt explained upfront by CGC

13
#2585 27 days ago

We need a playfield inspection challenge.. like wine tasting.. I bet the majority of you couldn’t spot a bronze vs. a gold to save your life..

#2586 27 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

For the SE guys expressing frustration - I do understand your point You seem to be very particular though about the machine which leads me to something I don't understand. If you're that particular how in the world do you not get the LE version of this game? So much more value and you get the definitive version that it appears you're looking for.

I wanted to chrome out my game vs. powder coat, didn't see the need/value for a lockdown bar graphic, inanimate topper, and quasi useful shaker motor.

In my view, the differentiation on this game from SE to LE was in the eye of the beholder and it wouldnt have been a financially sound one to mine.

Clearly the first class playfield ticket might have turned my head..or knowing the SE had no chance of getting one could have.

#2587 27 days ago
Quoted from JMK:

I don’t think Stern nor JJP differentiate between their LE playfields and the other editions.

I would be 100% shocked if JJP didn't cherry pick on its 12k collector's editions. Stern I bet you they put any PF in any machine.

That being said I bet ALL the companies have various grades of PFs A, B, C etc - just like diamonds. Stern probably puts A, B, C PFs in their games anything less than that is discarded, redone etc (maybe not can anyone say GB pf issues). JJP with the standards they appear to have I guarantee you they do this however they may not put anything into play that is less than A or A-. I honestly don't know either way but I cannot imagine that any manufacturer of any product of this $$ level doesn't grade the quality of its item (or parts of an item) and rejects certain ones or uses lesser quality ones in other places (ie lesser trim products - can you say vehicle trim levels folks. I mean you think your 20k standard edition vehicle didn't get subpar parts in it that they wouldn't put into the 40k+ limited edition vehicle).

I refuse to believe that this isn't common practice today and 100% positive that it would have been common practice back in the day (I know their weren't LEs, CEs, SEs etc etc then but you know darn well plenty of machines went out with subpar items and others came out pristine).

The difference is knowing and not knowing. CGC has now made it public (not that you guys didn't already think it anyway). Do you think Stern or JJP will come out and say yeah sure we make a game or 2 or hundreds with a PF that wasn't top notch 100% the best it could be? No clue nor do I care at this point. Fact is in our world today there is no guarantee that the product you are buying whether it be $1 or $1,000,000 is defect free. Hell I bet nothing is defect free.

Do I agree with not telling people ... nope but at the same time I expected this to be the case so this is no surprise to me in any, way, shape or form. Besides in our world its a don't ask don't tell policy. No one asked so no one told. Well CGC has now told so you can make up your mind whether you want to keep your orders for the low level crappy CE or SE (since you know they only put the junk in those machines (umm that is all sarcasm in case no one can tell) or put on your big boy panties and move into the high end luxury liner LE level. Of course if you really want to step up then why not send one to HEP or any other elite restorer and go balls out, surely nothing would be subpar then - right?

Anyway enough spewing out my nonsensical two cents worth. Get back to having fun with your games if you have them (or other games). If you want to cancel do so, if you want to send scathing emails to CGC about your poor quality game do so choice is yours and no one else's.

I appreciate CGC giving the update. I appreciate you guys information on all of this and the continued postings from happy purchasers and for those guys who may issues reporting them. It gives everyone a chance to see and hear for themselves.

Good Luck with your purchases and your games, happy flipping.

EDIT - one more detail I am on the order list for an LE as I wanted all the goodies that the LE came with and while I don't want to wait I will. That being said if I didn't want the LE goodies I would buy an SE in heartbeat even after the post above about PF quality. I would not buy the CE though as fully feel the SE offers too many extra good things to pass up on but I am not an operator if I was then the CE all the way (again even after reading the post above).

#2588 27 days ago

I’m a buyer on an SE eventually. The playfield tiny imperfections really wont be noticeable or impact play etc. Realize that until CGC said something, no one here knew there was any difference, but now that you know, some can’t get over it even though they never saw it before.

#2589 27 days ago

Stern used to say that their LE's had a thicker clear coat than pro's.

Can't remember which games.

-3
#2590 27 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

I’m a buyer on an SE eventually. The playfield tiny imperfections really wont be noticeable or impact play etc. Realize that until CGC said something, no one here knew there was any difference, but now that you know, some can’t get over it even though they never saw it before.

Too simplistic. Depends on the game. Some shipped SE and CE playfields have already been deemed unacceptable by CGC standards based on what Ryan wrote above, not just minor nitpicky stuff, and a frusrator the LE buyers won't have to deal with.

Sure, the classic buyers won't probably care unless the thing is in serious cosmetic trouble, but the SE buyers are a collectors market, not an arcade market, and deserved equal treatment as LE buyers unless told otherwise, and in advance.

#2591 27 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Stern used to say that their LE's had a thicker clear coat than pro's.
Can't remember which games.

I think on LOTRLE it was advertised as a feature of the LE, but it was also on later LE’s because of the signature on the Pf, which needed the extra coat of clear to protect it. I don’t think it was ever meant to be an extra coat for LE’s, more just a consequence of the signatures.

#2592 27 days ago

I think the Ghostbusters LE was advertised as having a thicker clearcoat as well.

#2593 27 days ago

Well this news may just sell off the rest of the LE'S out there.

-4
#2594 27 days ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I think the Ghostbusters LE was advertised as having a thicker clearcoat as well.

Let's leave Stern out of this, shall we? Apples to oranges comparison. CGC is really trying to make best in the class product, and there's still some growing pains. I think this LE vs SE playfield quality control judgment call line shows just what one of those can look like.

As for Ghostbusters- that game was a quality control trainwreck and even more so for the LE- ghosting on the inserts everywhere, collapsing cabinets. They may have their act together now, but as Ryan said, they aren't using the same world class playfield processes in house over there..and the cabinetry from CGC is in another league.

-3
#2595 27 days ago

Would you pay $7300 for an SE with a playfield that's considered good but not good enough for an LE, whatever that may mean?

#2596 27 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

Would you pay $7300 for an SE with a playfield that's considered good but not good enough for an LE, whatever that may mean?

I would and plan to, once my hobbit sells. (Or AFMr)

#2597 27 days ago
Quoted from Doug_Duba:

It is a current industry wide practice to have higher standards on playfields going into more expensive LEs.
Subpar playfield are stripped and rescreened or discarded and not used in any model.
We have been making playfields since 1977 and assembling pinball machines for less than two years. Remarkably producing playfields still remains our biggest challenge.
Quality expectations of collectors greatly exceed those of the operators that originally purchased the games.
If I built a time machine and brought brand new Williams machines from 1998 to the present, they wouldn’t meet the expectations of some collectors.
We have three original Monster Bash playfields in house and there are significant variances between the three. We would have rejected one playfield and the other two would not meet our standards for an LE.
The playfield is the backbone of a pinball machine, it is perhaps the most important component. We are very focused on producing outstanding playfields.

Thanks for the update!
You do a great work and I’m happy to wait for my LE.
The quality is important for me.
Just keep us all updated more frequently that’s help you and all people waiting.

#2598 27 days ago

Nice to see CGC finally updating us on what's going on. Keeping the game to a high standard? Awesome.

Now we're talking about the playfield quality. Does nobody remember this post?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/monster-bash-remake-mbr-owners-club/page/28#post-4743499

#2599 27 days ago

Side note: Unless you have the room lights all on, the game is off, and you're just staring at the playfield, you'll probably never even notice any defects at all. This is really a non issue.

#2600 27 days ago
Quoted from MEuRaH:

Side note: Unless you have the room lights all on, the game is off, and you're just staring at the playfield, you'll probably never even notice any defects at all. This is really a non issue.

That’s my thought as well. And if you play the machine it’s going to get worse marks on it than that anyway. If you’re buying one to never play and keep immaculate I’d buy the top of the line anyway.

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