(Topic ID: 221800)
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Monster Bash
Williams, 1998
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North Wales, PA
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:Hahahahahahaha I got a good laugh to see that 14 pinsiders (still rising) downgraded my post where I said the originals are inferior to the CGC re-makes.
Of course these deluded people are obviously owners of originals and are fearing their machines losing value.
I am hoping that even MORE will downgrade THAT post and THIS one too, as this will clearly confirm the validity of my position!!
Hahahahaha! Make sure you get to more Bally/Williams original owners and keep these downgrades coming!!!!!
THE TRUTH really hurts I know! Ha!
Wow that's a really childish stance...
Opinion is just that, an opinion. Some people prefer originals, plain and simple. Just because something is new and blingy doesn't make it better. Furthermore people put different values on different aspects of a game. There is no way you can say one is inferior to the other. Especially since remakes have only been around a small fraction of the time that originals have. Who knows how they will hold up.
Someday I will own an MB. I'm in a holding pattern until I see which one is a better fit for me.
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:Hahahahahahaha I got a good laugh to see that 14 pinsiders (still rising) downgraded my post where I said the originals are inferior to the CGC re-makes.
Of course these deluded people are obviously owners of originals and are fearing their machines losing value.
I am hoping that even MORE will downgrade THAT post and THIS one too, as this will clearly confirm the validity of my position!!
Hahahahaha! Make sure you get to more Bally/Williams original owners and keep these downgrades coming!!!!!
THE TRUTH really hurts I know! Ha!
It's called a "downvote" not a "downgrade"
Wow that's a really childish stance...
LoL First thing that came to my mind was; "what are you like 6 years old?"
Quoted from luvthatapex2:GLWT it hadn’t happened with MM or AFM so it won’t happen with MB. These are sought after games and originals will hold most of their value.
It hasn't happened yet. I think very soon we'll see a change coming. In the past, with so few new titles - and many of them offering nothing new - these classics really held on. Today, we have a bunch of new companies, many more new pins, and technology is driving them to new experiences.
I just can't see original player models holding up. Pristine versions, sure, I'll give you that. The cost involved to refurb an original is now on par with purchasing a new remake, with "better" stuff.
And for the record, I think we've already seen prices dropping. They aren't drastically reduced yet, but I think the tide is turning.
Again, I have no horse in this race, and other than personal gain of owning a classic cheaper, I kinda hope they remain strong. But hey, bigger, better, faster, more, , , right?
Quoted from fosaisu:It's called a "downvote" not a "downgrade"
FYI I just upgraded your post 
Quoted from MinusWorlds:Wow that's a really childish stance...
Opinion is just that, an opinion. Some people prefer originals, plain and simple. Just because something is new and blingy doesn't make it better. Furthermore people put different values on different aspects of a game. There is no way you can say one is inferior to the other. Especially since remakes have only been around a small fraction of the time that originals have. Who knows how they will hold up.
Someday I will own an MB. I'm in a holding pattern until I see which one is a better fit for me.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Concretehardt:FYI I just upgraded your post
As long as nobody "downwinds" me I won't complain!
Quoted from RonSS:And for the record, I think we've already seen prices dropping. They aren't drastically reduced yet, but I think the tide is turning.
I think they're still approaching max value, but not dropping yet. I think they will drop like a rock in another twentyish years. It'll be like when the arcades started going out of business and basically giving them away, except it will be widows basically giving them away.
If somebody was to decide to get an original instead of a remake, is there any chance at all it might actually look and play just like an original?
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:Hahahahahahaha I got a good laugh to see that 14 pinsiders (still rising) downgraded my post where I said the originals are inferior to the CGC re-makes.
Of course these deluded people are obviously owners of originals and are fearing their machines losing value.
I am hoping that even MORE will downgrade THAT post and THIS one too, as this will clearly confirm the validity of my position!!
Hahahahaha! Make sure you get to more Bally/Williams original owners and keep these downgrades coming!!!!!
THE TRUTH really hurts I know! Ha!
You don’t have to be an owner or seller to see your comments are simply to stir a pot with no validity. If the originals were so inferior companies wouldn’t be working so hard to recreate them in my view. The originals have stood the test of time and they are still going strong. There will always be a strong market for both for a very long time.
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:Hahahahahahaha I got a good laugh to see that 14 pinsiders (still rising) downgraded my post where I said the originals are inferior to the CGC re-makes.
Of course these deluded people are obviously owners of originals and are fearing their machines losing value.
I am hoping that even MORE will downgrade THAT post and THIS one too, as this will clearly confirm the validity of my position!!
Hahahahaha! Make sure you get to more Bally/Williams original owners and keep these downgrades coming!!!!!
THE TRUTH really hurts I know! Ha!
I don't own an MM but take your downvote as requested!
I love the argument of remake value vs original. It almost sounds like the envious kid that couldn’t have a toy for what ever reason, then all of a sudden he can have the toy and now wants to throw dirt on everybody else’s. Before anybody blasts somebody on preference they should understand their view first. Just because somebody “downgraded” a post regarding value, doesn’t imply they own originals and they are loosing sleep due to prices coming down. Most could probably care less unless they are flippers or retailers.
I own and route both remakes and originals. I can tell you my remakes have given me ZERO issues. My originals need work from time to time. I still prefer an original as most COLLECTORS would. I’ve even bought originals after the remake has been out and I paid a higher price for the original. They really do play different, they look different and the systems are different, all being stated time and time again. Most importantly, they are originals, restored or not. I don’t know of any collection that an original commands a cheaper price than a remake, anything from arrow heads and baseball cards all the up to high end cars and art. ORIGINALS are more desired and more expensive in all aspects of collecting.
When it all comes down to it, buy what you like or can afford and don’t worry about other collectors pins. They all play so similar anyway the layman couldn’t tell you the difference. Both are superior products and one can’t go wrong with either.
Quoted from Bud:I still prefer an original as most COLLECTORS would. I’ve even bought originals after the remake has been out and I paid a higher price for the original. They really do play different, they look different and the systems are different, all being stated time and time again. Most importantly, they are originals, restored or not
download (resized).jpgSo.............. Here we go again for the third round of "REMAKE VS ORIGINAL"
I'm pretty sure it going to be the same people saying the same thing.
Some will like the remake better and some will like the original better.
As far as I'm concerned NEITHER is superior to the other. They both have their pros and cons.
Please see the MMR threads and the AFMR threads for all answers for all remake vs original comments and questions.
Quoted from Yelobird:You don’t have to be an owner or seller to see your comments are simply to stir a pot with no validity. If the originals were so inferior companies wouldn’t be working so hard to recreate them in my view. The originals have stood the test of time and they are still going strong. There will always be a strong market for both for a very long time.
The matter of validity depends on the owner really. Not quite sure what you mean exactly when you say "If the originals were so inferior companies wouldn't be working so hard to recreate them." The reason WHY MM, AFM, MB and at least four others after that are being remade has much to do with high prices, desirability and number of original machines made. I NEVER said the TITLES were INFERIOR, I said the original machines for a number of reasons were/and are inferior. First off is a sturdier build quality on the re-makes which includes even the wood used. But more importantly it has to do with inevitable technological advancements which has given the consumer a richer and expanded experience, interactive topper included. It has nothing to do with shinier NIB but with what advances have allowed the makers to do. You end by saying there will be a strong market for both well into the future. This may well be true, especially as there are people out there who collect originals. And though I am not in that fraternity I do understand it.
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:Indeed. The Bally/Williams originals of MM, AFM and MB have been and will be vastly inferior in every sense, in sturdier build quality, in lighting, additions, toppers and interactivity. You have to wonder WHY anyone holding on to an original would or could offer a reason to hold them as the age-old argument "original is better" has been roundly disproved. But I can't blame these people. The value of their machines has plummeted and the desirability is rapidly declining. Some in this fraternity who have exploited and gloated over the increasing value deserve no sympathy, but those innocents who never intended to sell their machines are now (sadly) holding to an inferior product.
CGC rules!
I don't see where you have thought about the long term issues. How about having to replace a whole board when one LED goes out on the surface mounted led? Don't have to do that on a original.
Magicchiz
Quoted from Magicchiz:I don't see where you have thought about the long term issues. How about having to replace a whole board when one LED goes out on the surface mounted led? Don't have to do that on a original.
Magicchiz
I never think long term in my present analysis as that is a grey area which can never be predicted. There can and have been long term issues with the originals for sure in some instances and there will no doubt be some issues with the re-makes including the boards you mention for some unlucky owners.
I am talking here about the richness of the experience the re-makes offer, which of course is inevitable with the advancements.
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:I never think long term in my present analysis as that is a grey area which can never be predicted.
And that is one aspect that is in favor of originals. Features and new tech speak for remakes.
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:The matter of validity depends on the owner really. Not quite sure what you mean exactly when you say "If the originals were so inferior companies wouldn't be working so hard to recreate them." The reason WHY MM, AFM, MB and at least four others after that are being remade has much to do with high prices, desirability and number of original machines made. I NEVER said the TITLES were INFERIOR, I said the original machines for a number of reasons were/and are inferior. First off is a sturdier build quality on the re-makes which includes even the wood used. But more importantly it has to do with inevitable technological advancements which has given the consumer a richer and expanded experience, interactive topper included. It has nothing to do with shinier NIB but with what advances have allowed the makers to do. You end by saying there will be a strong market for both well into the future. This may well be true, especially as there are people out there who collect originals. And though I am not in that fraternity I do understand it.
As an owner of both and a wood worker by hobby, I would disagree that the remakes are "sturdier" in the sense of structural integrity. Due to various margin based decisions ie plastic vs metal and the cabinet on my MMR (while perfectly fine) definitely flexes more and is less "sturdy" then any of my B/W cabinets (unless they are beat to hell/broken). Given the same routed life, I believe my remake MMR cabinet would be in worse shape then its B/W counterpart. I won't pretend to be able to speak to the mechanics/electronics as the remakes haven't been around nearly long enough for me to have an informed opinion on those. I do definitely factor in long term care and maintenance though. While OG boards might get old, the individual components can be replaced myself for a few dollars. I definitely do not have the expertise to work on the newer board sets.
I definitely appreciate the expanded resolution with the color upgrade for my MMR but I got stung for the upgrade cost in the same way that my B/W would for the color DMD (although a little cheaper since I was an original LE buyer). Overall there is plenty of room in the market for both. Inform yourself on the pros/cons of each, buy what you prefer, and let everyone else make that decision for themselves.
Quoted from Kobaja:And that is one aspect that is in favor of originals. Features and new tech speak for remakes.
Some re-makes have not had a single issue.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:As an owner of both and a wood worker by hobby, I would disagree that the remakes are "sturdier" in the sense of structural integrity. Due to various margin based decisions ie plastic vs metal and the cabinet on my MMR (while perfectly fine) definitely flexes more and is less "sturdy" then any of my B/W cabinets (unless they are beat to hell/broken). Given the same routed life, I believe my remake MMR cabinet would be in worse shape then its B/W counterpart. I won't pretend to be able to speak to the mechanics/electronics as the remakes haven't been around nearly long enough for me to have an informed opinion on those. I do definitely factor in long term care and maintenance though. While OG boards might get old, the individual components can be replaced myself for a few dollars. I definitely do not have the expertise to work on the newer board sets.
I definitely appreciate the expanded resolution with the color upgrade for my MMR but I got stung for the upgrade cost in the same way that my B/W would for the color DMD (although a little cheaper since I was an original LE buyer). Overall there is plenty of room in the market for both. Inform yourself on the pros/cons of each, buy what you prefer, and let everyone else make that decision for themselves.
I do appreciate that admittedly informed clarification on the wood use, one of the many areas I have investigated in weighing the pros and cons. I have reached my own conclusions after painstaking investigation and personal experience owning both. I don't mean to imply my opinion is better than anyone else's though despite my previous aggressive tone.
Quoted from FarFromHeaven26:Some re-makes have not had a single issue.
Some remakes are not 20 years old.
The originals I KNOW I can repair. The remakes I ass-u-me I will be.
Not saying what my conclusion is. These are two aspects of it.
Quoted from aerobert:Careful there big boy. You'll choke on your pacifier.
Ah the intellectual response.
Quoted from Kobaja:Some remakes are not 20 years old.
The originals I KNOW I can repair. The remakes I ass-u-me I will be.
Not saying what my conclusion is. These are two aspects of it.
I understand that. I was responding to the person who documented board issues. Let's agree that there have been and will be issues with both. It is a matter of preference and I have stated my own.
Quoted from EricHadley:Ya'll shutup and go play pinball!
As always WackyBrakke rules!!!!!!
That is the best advice of all! 
Quoted from Magicchiz:How about having to replace a whole board when one LED goes out on the surface mounted led?
Have someone replace the LED. If there is a need, people here figure it out. Not to mention there are the LEDs, if one goes out the other two are brighter.
LTG : )
Quoted from adborto:Anyone care to share pictures of an old one next to a new one?
LTG : )
DSC00015 (resized).JPGDSC00588 (resized).JPGQuoted from FarFromHeaven26:First off is a sturdier build quality on the re-makes which includes even the wood used.
Nah, I don't buy that point. The playfield wood is much softer on the remakes. Therefore you will see much more and much deeper ball impact divots on the playfield. The clear coats on the remakes are different due to the chemical changes for environmental reasons (couple this with the softer PF wood and you get the drift). The boards are surface electronics. (throw away and get a new board IMHO) This coupled with JarbyJibbo's Cabinet assessment, makes the sturdier build quality argument weak at best. 
London
Quoted from o-din:Deleted post
Knock it off. You don't like the remakes, fine.
Quoted from LTG:You don't like the remakes, fine.
Is that really how they come? Oooops sorry. 
Quoted from o-din:Is that really how they come? Oooops sorry.
Please, LTG is an ambassador for all things pinball.
I have an original. It was my first game and I bought it an an auction with my son 11 years ago. Its fully restored and will never leave for many reasons. If MBr kicks-ass, I'm buying one of those too. Can't have too many MBs.
Quoted from o-din:Is that really how they come? Oooops sorry.
Where ha e you been hiding! Interesting enough it was the top color choice. Once people saw it in person, majority liked it. Green sold about 4 to 1, I personally love the black!
Quoted from ovfdfireman:Where ha e you been hiding! Interesting enough it was the top color choice. Once people saw it in person, majority liked it. Green sold about 4 to 1, I personally love the black!
I love the black too!! 
Quoted from ovfdfireman:Where ha e you been hiding! Interesting enough it was the top color choice.
I played one a few months back but it had stainless trim. I didn't like the way it played, so I didn't play it very long. Flippers weren't right for one thing.
And I never saw that gawd pukey green on any pinball machine in the 90s except the wireforms on that one sega batman game.
If we had, it would have been laughed out of the arcade. Maybe back in the 80s some people were into that dayglo shit.
I had a Creech with something similar about five years ago and it stood out like a sore thumb and it didn't stay very long. I only bought it because I got it cheap.
But hey, you asked. 
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I've got two remakes, more reliable machines in my collection. I'm selling my MB to get MBR because of that.
Neil.
I did the same with my AFMs
Quoted from PinCrush:I have an original. It was my first game and I bought it an an auction with my son 11 years ago. Its fully restored and will never leave for many reasons. If MBr kicks-ass, I'm buying one of those too. Can't have too many MBs.
And thats what is so funny.. people that keep saying how much better the remakes are think that owners of an original arn't able/aloud to buy them. 
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:And thats what is so funny.. people that keep saying how much better the remakes are think that owners of an original arn't able/aloud to buy them.
Yep..... This will be number 3 CGC for me and I have owned all the originals also. Just wanted PERFECT games and did not want to pay restoration prices.
I am anti remake on MM for various reasons, and it took me 12 solid years to finally land an original. I personally had zero interest in buying that remake. I don’t care about everything being perfect and new, life is very imperfect. Give me authentic and real. I want Williams stamped down my cabinet, and 20+ years of documented repairs.
Only thing I like about the remake is it saved me about $4500, as prices were going insane.
With that said, if you love it and have faith in it, go for it. If MB is priced well and built better like AFM, maybe I’ll look harder at it, but I’ll take an original all day, everyday. Ive played an AFMR and the flippers didn’t feel right to me. Just my thoughts.
Quoted from musketd:Remake will be far superior to the original
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