(Topic ID: 226353)

Monster Bash: Phantom flippers aren't working


By toddsvec

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by JTreds
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 1 year ago

Little background on the game, super clean, no corrosion, all serial number matching and I've owned for 14 years. All switches tested and confirmed working including the three in the lanes that are need to work for the phantom flippers, the switch, opto and proximity all register fine and multiple times in test mode. Phantom is not disabled in settings, for the heck of it I turned it off and on, and I cleared the Phantom data. I also did a factory reset, went beyond that and pulled the batteries, and I've also tried a completely different MPU board with different chips except the security chip. No credit dot. Proximity boards are fine, and yes, it used to work just can't say how long ago it stopped working.

If you know or don't know the game, by hitting the Phantom targets, it spells out PHANTOM and says on the DMD "Complete for Phantom Flip", but mine says Complete for 500,000" I have read one reference that if it thinks the switches (switch, opto, prox) aren't working, it has to relearn and will reset it self after about 10 plays. Well 15 plays later it's still not working for me and is only awarding 500,000. Stumped.

#2 1 year ago

I 'd try a factory reset and see if it says something other than complete for 500,000

LTG : )

#3 1 year ago

Hi Todd,
I ended up replacing the opto boards on mine many years ago. I think they were pinball lizard. I know pinbits sells them also. Once I replaced them I never had a problem again.
I know this doesn't answer your question directly but it saved me a lot of headaches.
Steve

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

. I also did a factory reset, went beyond that and pulled the batteries, and I've also tried a completely different MPU board with different chips except the security chip.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from avspin:

I ended up replacing the opto boards on mine many years ago.

Thought about that, but since they register each and every time, seems to be a waste of money. They register in switch test mode and the LEDs come on.

#6 1 year ago

Looks like you did everything I would have and more. My first thought was maybe ribbon cables but if you switched the boards they should all be seated correctly. I checked RGP and found an old thread of the same but you already found it.
Could a wire be pinched under the playfield?

#7 1 year ago

This is honestly a terrible feature and whenever I have a monster bash I disable it.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from avspin:

Could a wire be pinched under the playfield?

But what would that do? In a nutshell, the switches all register.... so why doesn't it work? If it has to relearn, how long? Number of games, number of hits? Not sure if Lyman is on pinside but maybe he knows.

#9 1 year ago

If you had moved the machine recently and now doing a factory reset, the phantom flips don't work until the game see's the ball enough times pass over the sensors, and one side will start first then followed by the other.

Remove the glass, start a game grab the ball press the flipper button and toss the ball up over the the ramps once the phantom lights are lite, keep doing this several times (more then a dozen if I recall) and it should start to fire up providing everything is in order as you already checked.

#10 1 year ago

It’s way more than 10 plays. The more you play the game the better the shots get. Mine almost never misses, and it will shoot different shots randomly. Make sure you go into switch test, test the inlane switches -with a ball- and then test the optos - with a ball - and proximity sensors - with a ball. The prox sensors will not trigger without a standard ball.

Just double check they are good, and start playing. It takes a LOT of games (a lot of
Successful shots, really) to get the data it needs. If you miss, that shot is not used in the data set, so keep playing.

#12 1 year ago

Well, I've "played" 15 games with the glass off, and guess I'll just keep playing some more and hope it shows up.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Make sure you go into switch test, test the inlane switches -with a ball- and then test the optos - with a ball - and proximity sensors - with a ball. The prox sensors will not trigger without a standard ball.

As I've said, I've done this.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

Well, I've "played" 15 games with the glass off, and guess I'll just keep playing some more and hope it shows up.

As I've said, I've done this.

You did? In the event you have intermittent switch trips, it will start counting all over again. I had trouble with this for a while too. Ended up having to clean optos and I replaced the prox switches just in case

Anyway keep playing; I am not sure, but glass off may not be the best since it will be getting data based on your throws instead of a real flip, which will make it hard to replicate in the game

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

All switches tested and confirmed working including the three in the lanes that are need to work for the phantom flippers, the switch, opto and proximity all register fine and multiple times in test mode.

Yes, my initial post. See above.

In "playing a game", I am shooting the ball around, just grabbing it once in awhile and running it down both inlanes a few times.

Unfortunately it's a Monday so I won't be able to play test it until later.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

running it down both inlanes a few times

Make sure all three phantom flip lights are lite before tossing the ball through the ramps for the flip to happen. Start at the enter switch so it registers it all the way through, if you skip a switch that received data may not process the sequence for the flip.

In addition I'm sure you checked but make sure A.2 24 "Disable Phantom Flip" is set to NO.

#16 1 year ago

Did playing get it to start working?

#17 1 year ago

It is weird that both of them are out. I have had one side or another not light up but not both.

You have to let the ball roll down the inlane and actually shoot the ramps with the flippers before it relearns. I have had it take quite a few games in one case and very few games in another.

I don't have the game anymore but if any of the 3 switches is flaky it won't learn. IE if it works in test but not continuously in game enough to learn. My problem was the eddy switch worked in test but not always in game. I had to video a few games with my phone inside the coin door before I noticed the LED was not always coming on.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from avspin:

Did playing get it to start working?

Haven't had the time yet, still Monday here for some reason

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from KJL:

You have to let the ball roll down the inlane and actually shoot the ramps with the flippers before it relearns. I have had it take quite a few games in one case and very few games in another.

You sure about this or just an opinion? Because I have NOT been doing this

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

You sure about this or just an opinion? Because I have NOT been doing this

That's what I have been saying about the ball path, the machine should see the sequence of travel from start to end on all the inline switches leading upto the sensor or it might not trigger to sequence. So pull the glass, hit the flippers a few times light all the phantom lights, then hit the flipper buttons again and toss the ball from the very beginning of the its path the ramp entrance and allow it to run over all the switches up to and including the sensor board right to the flipper, then grab the ball and rinse and repeat.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from DeathHimself:

That's what I have been saying about the ball path, the machine should see the sequence of travel from start to end on all the inline switches leading upto the sensor or it might not trigger to sequence. So pull the glass, hit the flippers a few times light all the phantom lights, then hit the flipper buttons again and toss the ball from the very beginning of the its path the ramp entrance and allow it to run over all the switches up to and including the sensor board right to the flipper, then grab the ball and rinse and repeat.

I have been dropping the ball on both sides in game play and just grabbing the ball and doing it again. In test mode 1-2-3 beeps, so they all work, but I have not in simulated game play been firing the flippers. The Phantom blue lights are always lit, hitting each spells a letter. When it's operating it says "Spell Phantom for Phantom Flip", in my case it says "Spell Phantom for 500,000". If your'e saying I need to actually flip and HIT something before it learns, I have only put on 3 games like that. If it's just actuating the three switches, trust me I've done that enough.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

I need to actually flip and HIT something before it learns

I'm not a 100% sure if you need to hit the flipper button at all, but I did when I was learning my phantoms just to be on the safe side like a real game situation, then I tossed the ball through its path. Now I'm pretty dam sure it has to hit all the switches in sequence for it to learn. Like I said I knew it took like a dozen or more games before they started to flip on their own.

You did check that A2.24 is set to "NO" as well correct.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from DeathHimself:

I'm not a 100% sure if you need to hit the flipper button at all, but I did when I was learning my phantoms just to be on the safe side like a real game situation, then I tossed the ball through its path. Now I'm pretty dam sure it has to hit all the switches in sequence for it to learn. Like I said I knew it took like a dozen or more games before they started to flip on their own.
You did check that A2.24 is set to "NO" as well correct.

Yes. The ball needs to travel down the inlane FROM another switch having been triggered. Then you need to successfully hit a ramp, orbit, or the spinner. A LOT of times. It is really hard to get it spun up manually and still make good shots, which is why there is a lot of complaining about how “bad” it is. In a home environment it shouldn’t be hard to be consistent - it’s when they are routed and moved, not level, not well maintained that it gets really flaky.

The ball’s velocity is calculated from the physical switch to the prox sensor, and I think it randomly selects the shot to attempt.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

You sure about this or just an opinion? Because I have NOT been doing this

I got help that worked perfectly from RGP years ago so this is not an opinion.

Like thing flips, the algorithm measures the timing of the 3 switches, the flip and then the target it hits to learn. If you grab the ball the timing is changed totally and negative progress is made. Bricked shots also don't count, it has to figure out where the ball went to adjust the timing of the flip.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from KJL:

I got help that worked perfectly from RGP years ago so this is not an opinion.
Like thing flips, the algorithm measures the timing of the 3 switches, the flip and then the target it hits to learn. If you grab the ball the timing is changed totally and negative progress is made. Bricked shots also don't count, it has to figure out where the ball went to adjust the timing of the flip.

There’s three of us saying the exact same thing. Is it working yet?

#26 1 year ago

After about 24 games, no. Although the three switches work perfectly in test mode, I noticed (because it makes a sound) that one of my rollover switches may not always register when the ball is flying. Also, I'm assuming since I played a number of games but didn't fire the flippers, the data is still off. I plan on replacing the switch and clearing the data and starting over again. I promise to post when it works or if I'm still stuck.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from toddsvec:

After about 24 games, no. Although the three switches work perfectly in test mode, I noticed (because it makes a sound) that one of my rollover switches may not always register when the ball is flying. Also, I'm assuming since I played a number of games but didn't fire the flippers, the data is still off. I plan on replacing the switch and clearing the data and starting over again. I promise to post when it works or if I'm still stuck.

Pull the play field and make sure the prox switches are also shoved up as far as they can go into the play field. There are those little plastic retaining clips, but they can get loose and not hold them up enough. They need to basically be all the way through the PF to the other side

#28 1 year ago

If it says complete for 500k and not for phantom flip could you potentially be running on a different rom version?

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