(Topic ID: 352536)

Mods that change how game plays? All in favor or no?

By Vino

52 days ago


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Topic poll

“Fan of mods that change gameplay?”

  • Yes, if they make the experience better 34 votes
    26%
  • No, but purely cosmetic mods are fine. 67 votes
    52%
  • Most mods are horrible regardless. End of story 29 votes
    22%

(130 votes)

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#1 52 days ago

Are you a fan of mods that change gameplay? Jaws may be the latest example, but others such as Rick and Morty and Led Zepp have mods that add ramps or change design as well. A recent podcast suggests these mods may be insensitive to the original intentions of the designer.
What is your take?

#2 52 days ago

No, never.

Unless the game is so bad that it requires drastic modification, in which case, I'm not going to own it for any period of time anyway.

It's not about being "insensitive" to the designer; we all say things here every day that clearly show we don't care about that. It's about ruining games and making them extra stupid (Jaws ball "eater," I'm looking at you).

The Bond flipper return is another one. Not as offensive but I just don't see the point.

#3 52 days ago
Quoted from Vino:

Are you a fan of mods that change gameplay? Jaws may be the latest example, but others such as Rick and Morty and Led Zepp have mods that add ramps or change design as well. A recent podcast suggests these mods may be insensitive original intentions of the designer.
What is your take?

No.. Never.

Maybe put up a poll?

#4 52 days ago
Quoted from Vino:

Are you a fan of mods that change gameplay? Jaws may be the latest example, but others such as Rick and Morty and Led Zepp have mods that add ramps or change design as well. A recent podcast suggests these mods may be insensitive original intentions of the designer.
What is your take?

I for the most part would say no. I do not however harbor some great disdain for those that want them. As for 'insensitive to the original intent' who cares? Do you worry about remake parts or mods that change or improve the art/functionality? Should we get mad that people swap out LCD's for better LCD's? Maybe they are there for artistry, not your viewing fidelity. What about speakers? Or sound packages? Should the people who picked those parts be insulted that we do not think they are good enough?

Should we worry what others do with their games? Not if you don't expect me to laugh at you for 'spending your money your way and no one will tell you how to spend it'. Fair's fair.

#5 52 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

No.. Never.
Maybe put up a poll?

You got it!

#6 52 days ago

Do we get mad when people insist on wheelchair ramps when they have perfectly working stairs that function exactly how they are supposed to??

(is this the first disabledment?)

#7 52 days ago

Anything that changes gameplay is an instant no. Anything that clearly looks 3d printed is also now a no for me (I made some gaudy mistakes when I first got back into pinball).
I want my pins to look classy, so if I am going to mod, it’s gotta be tasteful and not look out of place. Art of pinball, Stumblor, Sarcophagus, pin monk color light inserts, and plastic protectors are examples of stuff I like to add.

#8 52 days ago

I said "No", but I mean to exculde small mods that tweak things by removing ball snags and hangups, or improve ball travel.

Things like the Captain America ramp fix for AIQ. I think a small wedge that improves ball travel through the ramp wireform is perfectly fine.

#9 52 days ago

I do what I want with my games and let others do what they want with theirs. Except that person that had four different colored legs on the Star Wars game. That is completely uncalled for.

#10 52 days ago
Quoted from Vino:

A recent podcast suggests these mods may be insensitive to the original intentions of the designer.

It's your game. Do what you want. You're free to set it on fire if you so desire. (although that would be a big waste)

Quoted from Vino:

Are you a fan of mods that change gameplay?

Mods that offer minor adjustments that might fix a problem? Sure

Mods that add brand new features or significantly alter existing features making them non-standard? I can't say I've really added anything that falls into that category. Most stuff I've added has been cosmetic, or offered a minor adjustment.

If I had a JD, I'd definitely add the deadworld ring mod---but that's more of a case of recreating a feature that was removed, rather than a brand new aftermarket feature that was created later. Same goes for the sinking building on ES.

I've added new custom code to games that others have created...sometimes I keep the new code in the game, sometimes not.

However, one mod I have considered is adding a 3rd flipper on a Stern freefall: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/3rd-flipper-for-stern-freefall

Quoted from John-Floyd:

Anything that clearly looks 3d printed is also now a no for me

Yeah, visible layer lines on 3D prints are like nails on chalkboard to me.

#11 52 days ago

Awesome! The results will be very interesting.

#12 52 days ago

Depends. Is the foam and removal of the hood from the IJ mode hole a “mod”? I’d say that’s pretty damn critical, and yes it sure as hell affects gameplay. Same with the Halloween scoop mod, to a lesser extent.

But other stuff that changes the game against what was intended? No

#13 52 days ago

Idiots using that Rick/Morty jerry ramp crack me up.

#14 52 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

It's your game. Do what you want. You're free to set it on fire if you so desire. (although that would be a big waste)

Yes of course. The individual on the podcast simply found those clamoring for a ball eating shark mod without first playing the game insensitive to Elwin's decision on design. Curious about opinions on these type of mods overall.

#15 52 days ago

I'm a fan of getting games to how they were originally intended to be shipped, so mods that restore features that were cut, (Like the Twilight Zone 3rd Magnet) I'm in favor for. A less game changing mod would be the Deadworld Lock in Judge Dread. I'm blanking on other big game changing mods though.

#16 52 days ago

I mean if we are being honest Stern releases major game changing mods with every release.

#17 52 days ago

So can we count in that GB flipper post mod which helped improve one’s game playing skills to make this game more tolerable.

#18 52 days ago
Quoted from FalconDriver:

...to make this game more tolerable.

Nothing could make that thing tolerable!
Games like that just need to be sold to theme whores and walked away from.

#19 52 days ago

I like my Bond as is.
scuba mod would possibly bring higher scores and few sdtm games but I would rather adapt and play as intended. I hope to play in tourneys soon and my location has very steep games with no ball saves or “help”. I feel like playing how game was designed in this case but don't have judgement on HUO set ups that use mods to help with scores etc.

#20 52 days ago

Hard to think of ones that are acceptable
Modifying LOTR to deflect the ball from the path of the dead to the wireform can be seen as a solution

#21 52 days ago

Yes if they ETB

#22 52 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's about ruining games and making them extra stupid (Jaws ball "eater," I'm looking at you).

Elwin should have made Jaws a gobble hole; that would shut everyone up quick.

#23 52 days ago

I altered a game with an aftermarket mod that was supposed to reduce STDM from happening as often. Well, the mod wasn't designed well and caused other issues but even when it did work, I found myself feeling like I was cheating. It's not how it was designed and any high score felt worth less to me so I removed it. I'm happier without.

If you think about it, the game comes setup from the factory and anything you do to alter game play past enabling free play is altering intended design. I love splitting hairs or arguing semantics. lol

#24 52 days ago

I like that someone is worried about being insensitive to the designer. Really?

Do we need to start putting 'trigger' warnings on thread titles? Wouldn't want someone to accidentally have an emotional crisis from a pinball forum.

#25 52 days ago

-Just say no- to game changing mods.

#26 52 days ago

I would say the question is are you planning on having your machine in a competitive tournament or need to follow factory rules and set up? Or are you a homeowner who does not give a shit? Pretend purist will say this or that but it all comes down to what makes the game enjoyable and fun to play? I used to give pinsiders crap about the STTNG lane(lame) extenders. Or Ghostbusters(masterpiece) with center post mod. Who cares if people mod them to make them more enjoyable-really? I have some of my more difficult journey games on 5 ball and while I get shit from friends that come over-I could give two shits because it makes the games enjoyable to play and advance further.

The whole JAWS mod debacle is entertaining and I am eating tons of popcorn watching the wanna be purist cry. Looks like a badass mod to me and I am interested but will wait to play it first to make a comparison on how it plays and most important-does it make the game more enjoyable?

#28 52 days ago

I’m for making any mod that changes up the game play. I don’t have to buy it or use it, but those kind of options are fun. My Rush Pro with all custom metal ramps and the added ramp to replace the "dead-end" shot, is pretty fantastic to play AND look it.

#29 52 days ago

So the correct answer is no - don't do it.

But you know what game changing mod I've always wanted to do? Pull the posts by the flippers on a Klondike. Might be a much better game. Totally reversible. Clearly the setup was supposed to be like Doodle Bug.

#30 51 days ago

The only one I've ever really kind of liked is the sword mod for BKSOR. I don't think it effects the gameplay too much

#31 51 days ago

So is Titan rubber a mod that changes game play from designer intent? Absolutely IMO.
How about the new JJP I/O board “fix,” or precision flippers.

The longer I’m in the hobby the more careful I am not to do anything that will affect ball dynamics unless it’s an obvious “fix it” that in the past would have prompted a technical bulletin.

Adding back removed features like JD Deadworld or POTC chest is an exception for me.

#32 51 days ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

The only one I've ever really kind of liked is the sword mod for BKSOR. I don't think it effects the gameplay too much

I was just going to type this. I’ve thought about adding it but didn’t like that it changed gameplay. It is really cool though. I’m on the fence.

#33 51 days ago

Worst mod I’ve encountered- I once bought a WMS Eager Beaver modded with 3” flippers (and it doesn’t have outlanes!).

#34 51 days ago

I stay with the toppers... end of the story.

#35 51 days ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

How about the new JJP I/O board “fix,” or precision flippers.

I could see both sides of this for sure. My side is, the flippers act like normal flippers after replacing the Caps and the game is way funner to play. You can fudge the facts a bit too to make yourself feel better as well....I always thought it was incompetence why the flippers were so lame & I feel vindicated now

#36 51 days ago

I had a game on my STTNG with Steve Ritchie a few years ago at a UK pinball event.

He commented that my extended outlane guides improved the game and he wished he’d gone with them in the original design.

It’s satisfied my OCD that the King of Flow approved!

#37 51 days ago

Maybe. It depends on the game etc. STTNG lane extensions come to mind. I had them and thought they were great.

I buy what I like and that makes me happy. Do what you want with your own game.

#38 51 days ago

There was a cool mod floating around for Kings of Steel. It removed the right target shot, that is easily spammed, replaced it with a loop that fed into the top.

#39 50 days ago

There's modding then there's over modding. Twilight Zone has this problem sometimes when you see them. It can look junky IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I like some mods that do nothing for enhancing game play. MikeDs CFTBL and ACDC video mod is very cool. I have an ACDC with one and it replaces the Band area which was clunky and noisy. Very slick mod that senses the song and modes then plays videos. Totally customizable and you can add multiple vids per song. The mod just alternates between the vids.

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#40 50 days ago

So what did we learn here class? When you buy a pinball, you can do whatever you want with it. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. Carry on .

#41 50 days ago

Not in favor of mods that effect gameplay except for ones that don't effect the intended gameplay performance by designer.

Only ones that immediately come to mind:

IJ Laoche's antidote improving start mode scoop
TZ third magnet
Avengers AIQ premium: Capt Marvel ramp adj
STTNG pinbits extended inlane guides (probably most controversial of these 4)

That being said, do what you want to your own machine. Just don't be surprised if some player guests have a raised eyebrow

#42 50 days ago

What about Precision Flips? Do they change game play in such a way as to alter designer's intent?

#43 50 days ago

What about Fish Tales? Wasn't it originally designed for 3 inch flippers, but operators complained about long ball time? Then Williams started to ship them with lightning flippers (1/8" shorter). Is this an instance of the manufacturer modifying a game to change the original gameplay design?

#44 50 days ago
Quoted from DiabloRush:

What about Precision Flips?

Procession flippers are climbing up to the ladder to worst town.

Quoted from DavidCPA:

Wasn't it originally designed for 3 inch flippers, but operators complained about long ball time?

French operators no less! Ritchie has stated he has 3" flippers on his version (ot prefers them etc).

#45 50 days ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

So what did we learn here class? When you buy a pinball, you can do whatever you want with it. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. Carry on .

Yes of course. This topic question was specific about thoughts around mods that change original gameplay, whether you purchase the game or not.

#46 50 days ago
Quoted from Vino:

Yes of course. This topic question was specific about thoughts around mods that change original gameplay, whether you purchase the game or not.

I don’t think I’d ever do it, but I’m not faced with a Dream Theme disappointment that could be fixed to my liking, so I can’t answer the poll I guess. No biggie. I’ll just mosey along.

#47 50 days ago

I got into making a few mods when I got my Godzilla pro. I felt like the building criss-cross was begging for a diverter, and the premium has one, so it's in the spirit of the game. I even made a configuration that simulates the premium behavior. I did also add a few novelty configurations such as randomly divert, or divert on alternate shots.

Then I made a save post mod for Foo Fighters pro, which I thought is a feature from the premium that's too fun not to have. It changes game play, but within the spirit of the original. Again I made a configuration that simulates the premium behavior and some novelty configurations.

I don't like to stray from the spirit of the original. There are some goofy things out there: some of them seem like "just because you can". But then there are also some that are tough to question. I really like the Wolverine newton ball mod on X-men and it seems to be pretty universally accepted.

On some classic games there were sometimes prototypes that had a feature that was removed for production, and generally seems pinheads consider that a pretty acceptable thing to put back. Like extra magnet on TZ, or subway and VUK on Radical.

I'm not sure about ETB. I'd withhold judgement until I played stock and tried the mod. Who knows, maybe it ends up feeling like the X-men upgrade. When the designer mentions it's something they tried but it didn't work out, I could see why someone might think it's not that big of a stretch to say it's within the original intent or spirit.

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