That's a good idea. I'll remember to give the 2x4's a try. I was actually thinking on building a deck to sit on and around the top of the cart that enlarges the surface area and maybe even build it so that it slightly clinches the sides of the pin.
The mat I used is almost like a welcome mat, but more of the type that you would place in front of your kitchen sink or on the inside of a door enterance. It grips enough to not let the machine slide off, while remaining soft enough not to scratch anything.

guys.. don't be so paranoid about the game moving on the top. It can move all around and still be fine.. if it starts to tip (worst case) put some weight on it and pull it back. The games slide around all the time when I move them.. no biggie.. that's why you leave the legs on Don't move the cabinet around on the lift while its up unless you really need to. I move them around carpet on/off all the time without feeling I need some extra safety nets.

When I move a machine into the basement (or out for that matter), it doesn't have its legs on for some part of that trip. I'm also guilty of moving it by myself frequently, so a sudden shift isn't terribly pleasant...

Anyone have a problem with their lift table leaking? Mine is fine with a light load on it but once I load up a pin the table slowly goes back down. I checked to see if perhaps the cable wasn't adjusted properly was holding the release pin out a bit but that's not the problem.

I have the older orange version and the piston on it leaks too. If anyone has advice to stop that it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Slow leak for me too. This said, I use the lock to prevent it from going too low.

Hmm, not sure I knew it had a lock. Also, if it doesn't bottom out the oil doesn't leak? That should be easy enough to manage. Thanks.

Traditionally you can blow out (or stess out ) a O ring in any hydraulic jack and it will not hold the pressure if you stress the jack too much. I lost pressure once by jacking up a box truck on a jack that was not rated for that much weight, I could tell I was working it too hard then all of the sudden it lost pressure it would slowly lower every time I used it thereafter.

But even the cheaper of the two that HF sells is rated for 500lbs, so we should not be stressing it with 350lbs pinball machines.

The problem I have with my lift table is it lower too fast when I squeeze the lowering handle.

Thanks, the older orange one is rated at 350lbs. Maybe it gave up the ghost moving the modded TZ too many times.

Earlier in this post it was recommended to bleed the cylinder to prevent this. Has anyone done that? How difficult is it?

Old rodder's trick to prevent/repair slightly leaking O-rings is to add a teaspoon of brake fluid to the hyd pump. This swells the seals for a better fit. If that's the problem with your pump, it'll certainly get you back in business!

Back to wheels... I have seen tool box ones and the 10" ones but is there a non-welding approach to getting bigger wheels on this thing?

Question on the original mod:

I got the nipples and the elbows (haha), now I am having troubles:

1. I cannot get the nipples to screw tight into the cart. What did you use to do this?

2. When I got the mod screwed in there, it looks like I don't have enough slack in the hydraulic line to put the handle bars into the elbow. How did you get more slack?

3. What did you use to grind down the threads in the elbow so that the handlebar could fit in there?

Thanks so much for posting this idea!

Personally, I used the 1" pipe which happens to be smaller than the hole in the cart. I had to tighten the bolt a bit. I used a long nipple that fits right in the handlebar, and I added two U-bolts to avoid having the long nipple slide out of the handlebar. There was no grinding needed. I had to take the wire out of the guides that are attached to the handlebar. I'll add a pic later.

Correction, my pipe is 3/4" and slides right inside the handle bar which is 1".

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See my post on page 2 (3rd post down). That should answer your questions...

Brian

Why not just buy an actual pinball dolly, instead of all these "modifications", parts slipping, reverse engineering, etc.? They are still available, unless you need the lift for other items.

1. We like customizing stuff, including adding a folding handle to store it neatly under a pin.
2. We're spending less
3. We can lift other items

Thanks.

Please submit your $200 or less 'actual pinball dolly' that is readily available nationwide.. go

I used flag pole mounts bolted to a small plate. Works good and the handle folds flat when not in use.

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Price, lift height, amount of space used when stored...etc

With the HF cart, I can raise a cabinet high enough to simply slide it in or out of my vehicle. It sure makes for easy pick-ups.

Additionally, I can drop the cabinet low enough so I can easily remove the backbox at a manageable height. Also, I can easily tip the game on it's end or tip a game on its end onto the HF cart (when the wheels are locked).

I always put some thick cardboard on top of the cart to protect the cabinet and to make it easier to slide into my vehicle.

How did you get the hydraulic line out of the guide on the handle? I tried to disconnect it last night and got nervous that I was gonna break it and stopped. Haha

It's pretty much the same as a brake cable on a bike. I'm a little fuzzy on the details since it's been a year or two since I worked on mine, but here it goes:

Screw in the metal knob at each end of the brake cable (the one at the brake handle, and the one under the lift). Then, unfasten the end of the cable from underneath the lift. Next, squeeze the brake handle, remove the wire from the notch in the handle, and pull the wire all the way out of the insulation. Unscrew both metal knobs on the brake cable entirely. Then, pull on the black insulation from the end that is under the cart.

Price and quality do not always go together.
You can go cheap, and it will not last.
Just like all tools.

I bought another used WICO (fluid cylinder) at auction for $150 about a year+ ago.
They are still floating around all sorts of shops, and people get ready to throw them out because they do not know how they are used.
You have to look for them and make an offer.
Gave it to another collector who needed one that kept using kitchen chairs instead, as I felt bad.
Does that count?

You can make one for $200 out of steel and gas shock based on designs available if you have access to a metal and welding shop.
Even cheaper if you use hard wood, and are much lighter, but no where near as durable.

All the new ones I have seen are around $350 or so, which I believe are overpriced based on materials.
Closest one I have seen to WICOs are Penguin, http://penguinamusement.com/details.php?pid=penguin_dolly.
I am not partial to Harbor Freight Tools, which has nothing to do with this lift.

I was not making fun of anyone here, I just wondered what the real advantage was of this lift in terms of pinball.
I have seen a couple of really interesting designs for dolly lifts that can transport upright too, but I cannot seem to find them for sale anywhere, nor a design or patent.

Not sure why you feel to need to target your opinions at me.
There was nothing grievous about my comments.

I read it as more of an open question for anyone to respond to, and not necessarily targeted at your comments.

You asked why not buy a real dolly... My posts highlights why these alternatives are popular. Propose a solution that is widely available, and priced comparably to this solution. As you replied, there is no answer - hence why people pursue this option... And answering your question.

Find one available at auction is not viable for someone wanting one on demand.

The classic penguin is more expensive and doesn't drop games low enough to go on their back. It's wheels suck.

While the hf tables needs basic mods to be improved... It's cheap, available, and does the job handily.

The Penguin (and I believe Wico as well?) requires you use your body weight when you step on the lift bar / mechanism. The hydraulic cylinder only helps lower the machine slowly and doesn't help during the lift. If you are repeatedly propping up the machines, you'll need to wear shoes if you don't want sore feet. The HF table uses the hydraulics to help lift the table with easy pedal action and lower with the handle grip. I've used both the Penguin and the HF and still prefer the HF for all the reasons mentioned by others. I'm not lazy (well actually I am), but I'm prone to foot / arch injury and would rather be using the light weight pedal on the HF.

I did.

If you cannot find a WICO, build your own for well under $200 out of steel or wood, and a gas shock or related device.
There is your "in demand" option and you are "money concerned".

Here is just one example: http://www.biltronix.com/pinball_dolly.html
This one does not use a hydraulic shock and is all wood.

Here is another: http://pinballmachinesworld.com/tag/dolly/
This one is steel and uses a Sears jack and "cage" design, and has proper wheels.
It is a "pump" action for raising.

Yet another using the same jack ($90) and a wooden rack: http://www.jeff-z.com/pinball/dolly/dolly.html

There are plenty of other designs out there, and many are adjustable for height via different methods.
I have seen all sorts of things over the years, especially if people like to tinker and build things, such as mentioned in this post.

All work just as well.
I am just "old school" and use the original tools that have worked for decades.
My WICO is nearly 30 years old, and still going strong, although I have replaced several cylinders.

If you cannot get a machine onto a dolly, then lifting the machine up artificially is not an advantage.
Necessity is the mother of invention, if cost is a factor.

Are there a lot of people who work on pinball machines barefoot in the world?
I learned something new today.

I can't remember the last time I was working on my games with my shoes on. But I do live in KY so.......

I can't speak for others, but I'm talking about the home environment. I typically wear socks or in bare feet. But to each their own.

I have a WICO and I am considering selling it and doing the Harbor Freight mod lift. The reason-- I have a friend who has the Harbor Freight lift and he can easily fold down the handle and slide it into the back of his SUV which makes it nice if he takes it with him load and unload a pin when he buys one. My WICO takes up too much room.

I tend to work in my moccasins

... because spending $140 on supplies to build your own, that isn't marketably better than the alternative is better why?? Sure if we are all welders and prefer building from our spare supply of angle iron we have lying around the house. Meanwhile, for the rest of us, using something like the lift tables are viable, and for many, preferable.

Your second link is just the ATV cart mod.. which is inferior to the HF table options in most cases.. and still not cheaper.

You mean you can spend a lot of time and more money.. or you can just buy the HF or northern tool carts and take the handle out when needed.

The HF is generally cheaper than DIY options and more effective unless you are a serious metal fabricator... and in that case modifying the HF cart would still probably result in a cheaper solution with more potential.

The only real negative to the HF cart is it's weight, and that the stock wheels are not suitable for 'offroading'.

At the end of the day.. paying $135 for the HF cart without a sale is still going to be the shortest path for most. Modifying it isn't even really necessary, people are just looking to improve the tool.

Most of the ATV mods or classic coffin dollies can not get a game low enough to tip on its head without help or lifting the game (hence why the pinball lifter people came out with their tilt mod).

So are we still going to drop by the thread and go 'why are you all even bothering?' - because I've not seen you propose a better, or even practically cheaper solution - let alone one that is readily available.

$135 NOT on sale with FREE shipping (just need some extension slats for additional perpendicular directional height):
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-motorcycle-atv-jack/p-00950190000P
Not sure how this is inferior product, it is a Craftman with a lifetime warranty, I have one in my shop, owned it for years, and it is rated to 1500 lbs.
Been around for a while now.
It has been used by 100s of "pinheads" over the last 10 years, with plenty of posts under consideration.

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Here is the one I like, special build out off off a dolly with mounting extension leg.
I cannot find a mechanical design plan from 2009.

Different version of basically same thing (using a criss-cross sectional beam support) using a regular dolly.
This made by an EM collector.
Essential taking two dollys and extending them together.
It looks like he is using a spring lock bar for the "catch".
If it can support EMs, it can support the weight of most machines.

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Technically, you could use a regular heavy duty dolly, four extension support legs with heavy wheels and two locking mechanisms.
I would probably use a swing cross bar on either side for additional locking strength.
This would allow anyone to go from upright position to leg mounting position, and still allow mobility in either position, single handed.
Lock the front legs and casters, tip it forward and do the same thing.
It would also require minimal angle iron.
Designable in function in about one day, you already had the dimensions and the right type of cart to drill made from solid steel.
Otherwise you would have to weld extensions onto the dolly.

There are plenty of other ways to solve this problem.

Can the plywood bottom of the cabinet support the weight adequately? I always thought when lifting pinballs you needed to catch the sides.

All cabinets in good repair can support the weight.
WICO dollys do not straddle the sides as most similar designed dollys, to allow quick reposition under the machine.
Sometimes older machines where the slotting of the cabinets or the glue has broken down (EMs and even some Early SS WMS/Bally/Stern/Gottlieb/Zaccaria or anything other age machine), you just stick a couple of 2X4s on the dolly for extra support, and you are done.
If a cabinet bottom is getting weak, it is time to replace the bottom panel, especially with EMs and the primary source of components, or do what some do and "double up" the construction using basic cabinetry woodworking skills without removing the "guts".

I've moved over 30 machines (standard and widebody) and haven't had a problem. Two games had flimsy bottoms that were falling out, so I just used 2x4's to support those.

Same here; I moved about the same number of pins on my HF cart. Not a single issue.

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Nice idea using the pipe insulation as padding on the handle. I think I'll add that to mine

Yup, requires adding lifting blocks because the cart doesn't lift the game high enough. That's a common cart, so much the pinball lifter guys built a product line around it. But you are telling us something we all know.. so still not sure why you had to come in here threadcrapping on the topic unless you are just a HF hater...

keeps you from letting the front of the cabinet catch and chip when you lower the game. It's easy to think you can just let the game slide on the handle, but that's risky.

So I get done modifying my HF lift table and everything seems OK.

Effortlessly lift the first game (TZ) and roll it into position, very slowly press the release handle and the pin comes down like a friggin meteor. The cable is adjusted fine, the release handle travel is good. The hydraulic cylinder is just uncontrollable on decent. I have an old car floor jack that acts like this too but it hasn't been enough of an issue to make me look into it.

Unfortunately it's too late to take the HF table back, I already modified the handle and cable. The lifting action seems to work just fine and it does not noticeably leak down, so I don't think it's got air in it.

Has anybody else had this problem and fixed it? I'm staring at the diagram of the cylinder innards, I think it's just a needle valve adjustment.

I can't really use the thing like this, it wants to kill my pins!

Try contacting the manufacturer about the issue. They may be able to offer a suggestion.

There should be a large nut on the release assembly that you adjust 1/4 turn at a time to control the descent.

Make sure you adjust carefully WITHOUT your fingers in harms way when it comes down too fast, since you will have to test it with a load.

There is a metal arm on each side of the table's scissor support that can swing down to prevent the table from coming down all the way.

Yes, but you adjust, test, adjust, test.....it's easy to get lazy and bypass the safety bar.....

Picked one up today at lunch from HF - $130 open box & assembled. Should come in handy taking my GoT out of my Jeep later this week. I was contemplating some sort of ramp/slide thingy attached to the tailgate/hitch. This lift should would pretty well.

I think I'll just take the handle off for now, but some of the mods described here look interesting.