Madison, WI
John's also picked the worst possible time to do this. On the eve of a recession, in a year where his "Whales" have lost 30% of their portfolios.
Garage and a box of scraps John. That's the only way.
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Quoted from Beechwood:Wouldn't it be great if GWJ finds a whale and the first designer he reaches out to is...BEN!
No thanks. I'm starting code for Spooky's next-next game this week.
Quoted from Beechwood:Maybe we can all donate one part for the cause. Maybe an extra coil, switch, flipper bat etc. Between all of us we can give John a real head start.
I have a premium birch plywood (playfield size) I could donate if interested. Time's ticking John, you need to start moving if the timeline is to be realized!
I think we're on the "then it will die" timeline...
Maybe we should all send parts to John? Like crowd funding sort of.
While I find this "whale hunt" misguided in every possible way, I also have sympathy for a fixed income pensioner in this current inflationary hell. Fixed income loon bucks no less 
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Everyone can learn from Deeproot Pinball, Jpop, Andrew Heighway, Predator, & the many others. That left most people with nothing.
Everyone except you it seems.
OK so now it's making 3 copies of a custom pin, in six months, for 30k total?
John shouldn't your business plans get better, not more stupid? As I've said you've learned NOTHING from the past decade, you're now proposing an even stupider version of the Jpop Magic Girl "business model"
Your best bet is to find someone to give you 10k out of pity and make a game in your garage.
You're doing a worse job of this than those fake beggars at intersections with new shoes, a pet dog and 3 bags of takeout garbage at their feet.
Quoted from Beechwood:Well, there is a plan B, which is 10 "mini whales", and plan C which is 3 "mini whales". Medium whales need not apply.
I think that's accurate
And Plan D is "it dies" correct? Why not just fast forward to that?
Quoted from Haymaker:Doesn't PETA have a ship that they send out to stop whalers? Maybe this is what is causing the lack of interest in this project
It's actually paid for by one of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I guess they love whales?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Money will not be coming into my hands
The most true and logical thing you've said yet!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:The less I have to build the better, but the limit is a fixed maximum of 10 prototype pinball machines for Texas 2023 in March. Or 1 rich whale could surface & bite in at the last minute. Need the countdown clock posted up.
So now you've gone from 1 "whale machine" for 100k to 10 "mini whale machines" for 10k each? Oh and all still by TPF 2023 because that's totally feasible.
Jesus titty fucking christ your business plan gets dumber by the day. Is this some sort of Andy Kaufman-esque prank?
Quoted from Beechwood:Don't forget his brothers place is a 5 minute drive to many different bars. Priorities.
Maybe John thinks if he drinks as much as I do he will magically gain my abilities?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Ben everyone knows you are a real smart dude, & I am just your average guy who likes to have a few adult beverages. Already said it earlier, & no I do not want to wonder the streets looking for returnable deposits on cans for 5 cents.
It's not really about intelligence. I struggle with crap all the time. It's about working within your skills and knowing your limits. And having experience to know what time frames are feasible or not. And - as Steve Jobs would always say - hiring and listening to people smarter than you are.
On that last note. You've got all sorts of feedback here. Not saying they're smarter but the breadth of skills is very wide, much wider than yours alone.
Everyone is telling you this is unrealistic. We aren't trying to shit on your dreams, we're trying to guide you away from disappointment.
Also seriously. Stop using the term "Whales" Its a synonym for "rich sucker" Again, how many people have to tell you the same thing before you think "Hm, maybe they're right?"
Quoted from greatwichjohn:So far there is interest in a few $10k US games, so the project is a go at this stage. Proved there is interest, & interested buyers for one.
You actually hooked a sucker for this? Who? Iceman?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:It might also be what you get if John does! (I keed, I keed!)
Big difference. The AI actually finished its task.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:You guys keep lowering the bar into the ground. The $10k US mini whales will get a decent game for their money. Like I say the less I have to build the better in my timeline. For those that do not know the last 16 years, I am not a artist or a color expert. So that will be done by some one with the talent.
Or these - for Christ's sake stop saying whales - could buy any number of ACTUAL GREAT GAMES for less than 10k.
Ah, Iceman's posts. The deeproot shill. The only Pinsider I ignore. I can't read what he says, but I can infer it. Like how NASA profiles exo-planets by how they affect the gravitational wobble of the stars they orbit.
Go bravely into that dark night, ye Mini Whale.
So John. Let's say you take 30k from Iceman and some other idiots. What happens when the money is gone and you've failed to produce 3 machines? Because that will be what happens. This project wouldn't work at 100k it sure as shit won't work at 30k. You have NO IDEA how much any of this costs or how long it takes.
Are you on the hook for the 30k, or is there something in writing saying this is all speculative with no guarantee of return? I know you've learned nothing from Pinside history so let me remind you, Skit B and Jpoop both had aggressive action taken on them by people who felt jilted.
Quoted from Rarehero:How are industry professionals’ awareness of your alcoholism relevant to anything? No one cares who’s aware of your existence. You’ve never dealt with licensors, designed or built a pinball machine, and you won’t be able to do it within 6 months. Period.
If he knew anything about anything, which he doesn't, he'd know it can take six months just to GET a license.
He only thinks this is feasible thanks to insane levels of Dunning-Kruger, a term he'll be insulted I used after he Googles it.
Hey guys! Counter offer. So a new car costs 45k right? I am going to design a new car for 60k!
Any dumb ass sucker whales want in? Iceman, this has your name written all over it. PM me whales!
Oh qualifications! One time I changed a tire, so I know exactly how to do this. Also I like beer.
Yesterday I spent 4 hours drinking beer, but don't worry, I will work on this 24/7 to build a new car in just six months!
Now, as I said, I don't have any skills that would allow me to build this Whale Car myself. But that's OK. With your 60k I am going to hire a mechanical engineer (100k) a fabricator (50k) a systems engineer (80k) a programmer (120k) and some UAW assembly labor (250k) It's gonna work because I'm just gonna buy a crate engine, no need to reinvent the wheel am I right?
Well it's almost 11am on a Sunday. Time to crack my 3rd beer of the day. Please PM me, whales, as I really need the money.
Quoted from Dee-Bow:You should add - living rent free in all y'alls heads!
I've never seen so much energy wasted on putting someone down for having an idea that you don't deem plausible. Have any of you experts considered doing something productive and stop posting and downvoting in here.
This hobby has been rife with scams. They need to be stopped before anyone else loses money.
Yeah why are (Iceman and 2 other people) giving the money to John? Why not give it to the people actually doing the work, such as:
1) John's drinking buddy who will try and make the PF with a tablesaw and Forstner bits.
2) John's drinking buddy who will try to code MPF in FORTRAN
3) John's drinking buddy whose granddaughter is "really good at art" and will produce something you'd see at a hippie farmers market.
4) John's drinking buddy who will cut plastics with a band saw
5) John's drinking buddy who will build metal ramps with a stick welder
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Every point is wrong, Ben my contractors have the proper skills & equipment. Same as myself for doing a complete assembly. Have I ever said anything about your first build (love)? Wish people would just wait & see early August if the project dies. It will not be from No Whales!
AMH was jank as hell but it was real. Took a lot longer than 6 months though. Hell it took like 6 months of coding after it was completed to get the rules in a state where people started buying it.
I didn't make a cent until customers got them in their home. Myself and Charlie risked our OWN money and time. Not some "whale's"
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Honestly..that's the best idea. I'd close this thread up if i was you. Just feeding the trolls. (Mostly nobody's but surprised at a few of the naysayers) I don't know you at all, but i hate it when people gang up and bully people. Their intentions are NOT to save potential investors any $$.(those people don't need help) I don't have to tell ya that your idea is a longshot to achieve and that you're crazy to even consider attempting the task! You're a great part of the pinball community and i imagine a valuable asset to your community considering where you live! I commend ya and wish you the best of luck. I'd have a beer with you and play some pins anytime! Cheers
Nope. It's time for pinball scams to end. For far too long scams and schemes weren't allowed to be questioned on Pinside, and it lead to millions upon millions lost.
Wanna give John 10k out of charity? Go for it. But his plan is stupid, he needs to be saved from himself.
John mentioned FAST Pinball so they'd likely use Mission Pinball Framework (MPF)
MPF can be configured completely via scripts and pre-defines, entire games can be made in this method. It's still beyond a boomer barfly but you don't need a Lyman Sheats either.
His timeline is still insane. The fact he won't take advice from Josh who worked on the insane Houdini turnaround.... Dumb.
10k will net you a shooting WW, cab, electronics, standard parts and immamaculate legs.
Won't cover anything else that you aren't able to do yourself.
Meanwhile how many people have done great protos with boxes of scraps and their own time and money? I've played many at shows! Never played one made by Sandwich Hero.
Quoted from jackd104:Christ almighty dude! Please spend your energies on getting your life in order. I have been snarky in this thread but I am worried about you now. Please get some help.
Yes this is very sombering. You should be doing a GoFundMe or such. "Help a retired pinball fan realize his dream of building his own game" Then get some friends together and build it at this workshop you mention.
Don't get yourself on the hook for tens of thousands of business investment from rich dudes who might turn vindictive.
Quoted from cdnpinbacon:John how are possibly going to provide sales projections??? Your business plan is a complete mess
Wouldn't something have to exist before it could even be a mess?
John. GoFundMe. I'm sure we'd all pitch in, I'd give you a few hundo. America bucks even, that's a fortune up there.
John. Set up a GoFundMe. We will give you charity so you can buy parts and beer.
But as a business? You're TERRIBLE at this. Maybe whale IS the right term because you're only going to snag idiots. The rest of us know your plan makes zero sense.
You think you can get a license in 2 weeks? YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FRIGGIN MIND. You have no idea what you are doing! None! Anyone who gives you money deserves to lose it.
Pinside really needs a Scam Filter. Threads like these should be locked, go beg on the street corner like everyone else.
John you are a TERRIBLE businessman. No wonder you went bankrupt.
Not only is there zero chance of you sealing a license deal in 2 weeks you're risking it by doxxing their email.
You're already broke. Don't risk further damages on this insane idea. All it takes is one pissed off Hilton investor to ruin you.
Quoted from pookycade:I just can’t help myself. For the love of god John please set up a go fund me for your pinball, you’ll get several hundred from me if you’ll just stop this. It’s like a car crash you can’t look away from.
[quoted image]
Yup. Better to be thousands as a gift from multiple people than to owe one rich dude 10k
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I am not Roger Sharpe
That's for damn sure.
John it doesn't matter which phone number on the back of the DVD case you called.
You will not secure a license, ANY license, in a two week period. The fact you think this is possible shows yet another aspect of this industry you know NOTHING about.
In the real world, where you don't live, it can take 2 weeks just to get an approval on a font! That's AFTER you spent 6 months getting the license.
John. Set up a GoFundMe. End this delusion.
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Are you day drinking already? Go be productive today
[quoted image]
Day drinking starts tomorrow. Fishing trip.
Maybe you should talk to your broke buddy Johnny about drinking problems. I can easily afford mine.
I usually vacillate between Lake Louis Warped Speed (local 6.9% scotch ale) and "Working Man's Beer" High Life.
I live in Wisconsin so of course Spotted Cow is a thing. Haven't been into that as much lately, I find it a bit fruity of late.
Quoted from Roostking:This guy doesnt plan, for failure!
No wonder he went bankrupt.
Haha I've got Iceman blocked and still I knew he was one of the mini whale suckers.
It's like how they detect exo-planets. You can't see them, but you know they're there by how they affect objects in their vicinity.
I would not want to owe someone like Iceman money! Especially if I was a broke pensioner.
See here's the thing that John doesn't "get" TPB licensor isn't going to outright say "no" they're going to take months to say "no" or by some miracle "yes"
His budget doesn't take into account even a cheap license, on top of that he hasn't budgeted the TIME to get a license.
You also need to have proof of delivering to get a license, either have made games or fake it enough to look like a real company (deeproot) Look at every startup. AMH, Full Throttle, Celts, Houdini, Lexi Light speed... Notice a pattern? Only later did they get real licenses.
Sometimes you gotta read the writing on the wall, even if it predicts doom.
Quoted from Beechwood:I personally would like to see the TPB license be unobtainable, not because I want GWJ to fail in his plan but I think building an unlicensed pin with a realistic timeline would be pretty cool. And a way to showcase (prove) his talents and connections in the pinball community.
But the dream is still alive until they say no.
Do we need a countdown for the licensing to be aquired?
AP did Houdini in what, 4 months? But that was with a full team, a pro designer and a rich uncle. Oh and no license approvals needed AFAIK
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Off the beer starting today. Had my holiday weekend of relaxation. Hopefully this week I get the TPB approval done, or well underway. Or know if this project dies. If so on to Trailer Trash build if the money is there.
This has to be some sort of epic troll. He actually thinks a license can be negotiated and obtained in a week. He cannot be for real... Right?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes some people work for free like myself. For the love of pinball. Vendors & contractors will get paid. Some artists & musicians would just like the reward of exposure, SXSW & TPF. Got friends locally still playing in bands.
Oh God. "Exposure" is an even dirtier word than "whale"
John you're terrible at this. Unless this is all a giant troll in which case you're brilliant. But sadly I think it's real.
Don't take any money until you get a license. Which you won't, which means you won't be on the hook to anyone. Then set up a GoFundMe and we will charitably help you make a prototype game.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:No word today about license talks.
Yeah it's almost as if nobody, not even Roger fucking Sharpe, can get a license approved in 2 weeks.
But please. Tell us again how your cadre of drinking buddies is more apt than Roger Sharpe.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:They would probably let me die. They think my liver is already wrecked from drinking beer the last 39 years.
The woman who they were going to get in contact me, was on vacation last week. So she likely has more to get caught up on, + TPB pinball ask.
On vacation last week = won't contact anyone for the next 3.
That's how showbiz works John, but tell us again how you're going to get the license by Friday.
Quoted from ElectricLou:The guy is not setting up an IPO.
What he does is 200% legit.
It’s not a scam. It is now well dox
Let the guy and investors dream!
He's setting up something he can't deliver on. Like Zidware it's not starting as a scam, but it will become one thanks to incompetence.
We aren't haters we are people trying to prevent a broke ass pensioner from getting into worse financial trouble.
Quoted from ElectricLou:Ben you are 100% right.
But why bumping up this thread non stop?
You and RARE are the trolls!
STFU and the thread is page 9 and dead…
We are trolls all right. Telling you to not drive across the bridge under which we live because there's a 100% chance you car will fall into the river.
Quoted from ElectricLou:Who are you trying to save? There is NO Waiting list on that thing. Nobody cares! 99,9999% pinsiders knows it’s a popcorn thread!
You and Rare are living on this thread to save us but there is nobody to save. You just love listening yourself
We are trying to save John from owing people money.
Gpop is planning to pay the licensor holder "with exposure" as well.
Gpop, some free advice you won't take: Any license is AT LEAST 20K down, usually more like 50-75k. And that's for a proven company, you won't get the license because you aren't a proven company. Then you pay per unit, which costs way more than it used to BTW.
So basically your budget is blown before you even begin. So don't begin. Do a GoFundMe and make a generic Trailer Trash pin.
Quoted from homebrood:The Gpop moniker is not really applicable here as John has not taken any preorder money.
A couple hunge in beer money doesn't count!
That and Jpop had way more experience and a less-dumb business plan.
Quoted from Mr68:Be sure to order the Impossible Whopper when you do.
Jpop has now spent more time NOT making pinball machines than he ever did MAKING them.
But by all means. Waste your time on a dinosaur instead of cultivating the next Keith Elwin.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Still no word on TPB licensing. Maybe next week.
You won't get the license. If you wanna have any chance of having something for TPF, just start on your Trailer Trash generic theme now.
Not hating. Trying to help.
Quoted from pookycade:Boy I sure hope someone is flowcharting this all out. The menu options and associated (or it could die) deadlines are really starting to confuse me
It's a very elaborate flowchart, but whatever option you choose ends up on "It Dies"
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes it is a long shot. But you would think they have to give the info to the boys themselves of a product proposition. I do not think they can just say NO, & be done for it. But what do I know about the license dance routine.
Good lord John you're approaching this like a child. "give info to the boys" that's not how the world works! You have your answer, it's no, you're lucky they responded at all!
Maybe you are procrastinating on purpose. Setting stupid timelines to delay the hard work ("diet starts tomorrow") Your timeline is INSANE (as all we "experts" said) and you've just wasted 2 weeks of it on something "we experts" told you, rightfully, was a waste of time.
Skip to the GoFundMe dammit.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I personally do not see a Go Fund Me working to build a single game. The timeline remains September to March 1, 2023 for SXSW & TPF.
GoFundMe is essentially charity (though in this case you'd probably have to pay tax on it)
Sounds like you're down to just one whale (Iceman, doing it simply out of spite) Why owe a large chunk of money to 1 guy when multiple people will just GIVE IT TO YOU no strings attached?
Don't waste another 6 days on TPB, the answer is no. Get your ass in gear with a GoFundMe or STFU.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:My pod was in it for TPB, so unless the miracle happens this week they are out.
Let me get this straight. You had people on the line who could drop 10k on an insane gamble, who also thought it was actually feasible to obtain a license with zero dollars and in 2 weeks?
Continue taking our advice and just fast-forward to the GoFundMe. You won't get the license. Stop wasting time with your already insane schedule.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:No, just another 5 days of no interest from the boys to go before it is officially dead. Trailer Trash will be a different thought process.
You're wasting 5 days. Get to work.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Biggest Unknown. What does the known game designer get out of this? Is it a passion project for them or maybe they want “exposure”? Possibly helping out a friend? But what is their motivation?
It sure isn't the money!
But if he got someone, good for him. Just stop wasting time on a license you won't get.
Quoted from Rarehero:I honestly don’t know why any of you even entertained the idea of giving money to Sandwich Clown. It’s clearly a misguided, ignorant, arrogant clusterfuck of an idea. Why encourage it?
Because I pity him. And I don't want him to risk further financial ruin with a business plan that has 0% of success.
It's better to take a lot of donations than to owe a few rich people money.
We just don't wanna see you get hurt further financially. Pinball is a cruel, cruel world. It's not for the feint of heart.
If you go through with a whale, ditch TPF and go for Expo. Set realistic goals. Right now you sound like me circa 2011, before I knew better.
Quoted from Beechwood:Go fund me. People send money to an account. You use that money for your pinball build or beer or blow. What is there to not understand?
John thought the GoFundMe money was to buy one of the 10 (hahaha delusional) games he'd build by TPF. The GoFundMe funded game would then be auctioned off for charity?
John didn't realize HE WAS THE CHARITY.
Quoted from vdojaq:I take offense that we PM and work out the terms and then he comes on here and just doesn't care. Can't have it both ways.
He has zero $ now and I am willing to bet NO ONE fully funds him $10K after his showing of true colors the last 24 hours.
Anyone successful enough to have 10k to blow on this insane business plan should also be smart enough to know it won't work.
His whale is probably Iceman, just doing it to "own" people like Blueberry & I.
Just shoot for one game. You'll be lucky to have it ready for TPF. Anyone who's ever done this would agree.
And if people like it? Go from there.
You need to treat this like a prototype experiment, not a business. And if becomes a business? Great!
I spent most of the day working on inlane rollover code and graphics. However long you think this stuff takes... It takes longer.
An easily Googled public solicitation of $100k to build multiple copies of a game you don't have a license for - yeah that'll get you a C&D. She already said no, then came a warning. John, read the friggin room buddy. (Sorry, let me translate to boomer: Take a hint!)
As I've mentioned several times, John could get himself into further financial straights with these dumb moves.
John just hunker down, make something generic and bring it to TPF. Stop moving your start dates and goalposts and just get to work!
Yup. John you're not cut out for this. By my account you lack every skills required to manage a project of any type, let alone something as complex and awful as pinball.
Need money? Use your resume (a pulse) and go get hired by someone who actually knows how to run a business. You're not leadership material whatsoever. Again, not trying to be mean (even though it's mean) Just trying to save yourself from disappointment, like telling a kid standing on a roof he can't fly like Superman.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes just like a bunch of experts said that company was not the one to contact. Proved them wrong on that one. Got a very quick response back which I have stated from the start that I would not do TPB without permission. Another group here saying build one anyways & see how that plays out. The build must start on September 1 this year.
You're right John, the speed at which you got shot down on a license was impressive! Not even Roger Sharpe could have pulled that off.
Hey why not go back to the bar (again, I thought you were broke?) and push the Build Start to October 1st. Hell, February 1st! It's not like you operate anywhere in the realm of reality.
Quoted from Beechwood:I am out as well. I was simply trying to understand GWJs hesitance to the go fund me money, as it was really no different than a collaborative mini whale.
1) he didn't understand it, because boomer
2) he's greedy because he's so broke. 2 whales in the bush > one in the hand.
3) he didn't understand that HE was the charity
But you know what? Screw it. Let him get in debt to a lawyer. Baller move that. No wonder he's bankrupt.
Quoted from mof:Wait a second, Ben...
"Percepto" was an original movie gimmick? A buzzing device activated in every movie theater seat?
https://www.nightmarishconjurings.com/2019/09/26/horrible-imaginings-film-review-the-tingler-in-percepto-60th-anniversary/
Amaaazing!
Yes there's a scene in the movie that takes place in a movie theater and it's like "the tingler could be in this very theater!" and then random seats in YOUR theater would buzz.
Same director that made House on Haunted Hill, also with Price.
I love how I have him blocked and I still knew Iceman was the whale.
It's like "seeing" a black hole - you don't see it, but you know it's there by how it affects stuff around it.
(black hole analogy apt as that's where Ice's money will be going)
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes Ben I said from the start I have a local guy who was lucky not to join in the Heighway Pinball fiasco with Andrew. He was going to be a fulltime programmer remotely. The games will be in the tiny workshop, for production & testing.
But he'll be programming on the actual game, correct?
Programming a game remotely is like doing heart surgery over a Zoom call.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It takes a pretty deft touch and some subtlety to pull that off.
I know Canada is famous for its comedians but do we really expect that kind of level of pro humor from this bunch?
A "soft" Trailer Trash game that "celebrates the culture" will be an embarrassment. Just a bunch of farting, burping and crushed can sounds. (This is what I expect Boomer John to make)
A hardcore Trailer Trash game would be a lot funnier but will also be super offensive.
Agreed. Ditch the 3rd flipper. No shots require it.
Jets could use an extra exit for randomization, maybe a one way gate into the right loop thing?
An extra entry point would be nice as well. Could do a vanishing post at top of orbit, hold it up to stop ball on outer orbit and drop it into pops.
A standard dumb drop could work too (think space shuttle) angle it 45 degrees, orbit shot hits it, drops into pops. Then code could choose to put drop back up or leave it down to open path to left orbit.
Quoted from TreyBo69:What if the giant newton ball on the playfield was a beer can. And the beer can worked like the bridge magnet in Godzilla.
You could hit the can to knock one back, ie the small captive ball hits the target. 6 pack, 12 pack, case, keg multi balls for successive hits.
As the ball comes down the spinner on the right, it could whip the ball like Godzilla. Like you've been drinking and you're dizzy after doing the figure center spinner loop shot. (in my mind that area looks like an off road dirt track)
Neat idea but you'd need a custom solid steel beer can machined.
Any of John's bar buddies retired machinists?
I dunno if it's just a Wisconsin thing since all the beer we drink is also made here but somehow beer hasn't gone up in price at all during all this inflation.
Meanwhile soda has nearly doubled in price. WtF? Soda is easier to make than beer!
I think John has mentioned this but FAST boards combined with Mission Pinball Framework allows you to get a game up and running with just scripts, not even really scripts a list defines and actions.
Probably the FASTest way to get something flipping.
John says he isn't doing this for the money. Which is good because there won't be any extra.
But if that's the case then why does he want to make up to 10 units by TPF? Even making one game is gonna be a long shot, if you try and make multiple in this same insanely short time frame you're going to increase your chance of failure exponentially.
Just stick to one. If people see it and want more, great! Cross that bridge when you come to it. Don't shoot your legs off on the way there.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I would like to see Doug put up a Go Fund Me, for charity & actually see if the guys would actually Fund It For Charity. I believe the goal was $11k US to make the $10k US after the fees. Lots of talk, & I did not get the feeling it was there into the Fall or the end of the year. Prove me wrong for charity, but I think not is the case here with this group.
Just got home from a night out with a couple of pitchers of Bud at the bar. Everywhere I go, not all the people know my name, & no bar stool reserved for me like Cheers on TV. My wife is getting the cans of Bud ready before bed, so I can continue on with enjoying life & beer. Proved I am a charitable guy here, but like I thought guys here will spin it another way. Make A Wish or Project Pinball are the losers out of this shit fest here.
As for industry people they know who I am. Could care less what people think here.
Step 1) Embark on an impossible project schedule.
Step 2) Remind everyone how much time you spend drinking
Step 3)...........
Speaking of art did John budget for a white wood? Get the game shooting, hand that off to the programmer than build the real deal with final mechs and art?
John you need to work backwards, allow AT LEAST 3 months for code, audio, etc. So you need a WW to hand off to a programmer by end of November. Doable?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Beer count is 7 so far. Might have more to piss of my wife tonight. The coach is on the sideline for a week suspension. Everything is working as planned.
What's the plan? Liver failure?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:He could probably care less about that, too.
"That means you do care, at least a little!" - Weird Al
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Going old school, cad will only be done after I have a final test whitewood.
Isn't Jon supplying you with a design file that's CNC ready?
You don't have time to dick around. Make a WW, see how she shoots, give notes to Jon, hand off WW to programmer (as long as it's somewhat close to final deal) and work on final version with tweaks. Then give that to programmer and pray.
Don't know what a toy will be? Just cut a big hole and patch it up later.
Quoted from thekaiser82:Please tell me this game sits on cinder blocks and not legs.
It should have that crappy metal siding on the cab. Less art to come up with!
Oh so no CAD huh?
This project is doomed. John for the love of god DO NOT TAKE MONEY FROM ICEMAN.
He doesn't know it, you don't know it, but this WON'T WORK. Much more talented people than yourself wouldn't make this deadline, you sure as hell won't make it, especially since you're relying on other people for everything.
Just stop now before you get hurt.,
Quoted from Rarehero:This will be “The Room” of pinball.
No, that movie was at least completed.
Quoted from gliebig:Soooo, whatcha thinking about rules/code?
"I've just opened beer #5 at 1:30 on a Tuesday. As far as rules go, that is something my Coach is going to have to discuss with my Whale-Pod crew. There is a guy at the bar who says he knows FORTRAN, I am thinking he will be able to program this game in a day or two, so that goalpost will be moved to February 29th"
"At this time the build is for 1 game for my coach, possibly 2, or up to 10 if I can find 8 more Mini-Whales. If people want to fund a Min-Whale machine, a group of 10 guppies can form together to become 1 Mini-Whale, or possibly 100 guppies to become one Full Whale (using the metric system)"
"The build start time now has a solid date of October 1st, though it could change to December 1st. I am going to do this 'old school' since I don't even know how to turn on a computer yet I wonder why I'm broke. The PF will be built using a loom-controller Porter Cable hand router attached to a radial arm saw."
"This game is going to be awesome, combining both my rapier boomer wit and the fact that I, being male, love ladies so expect a lot of T & A and I don't mean that whitewood Scott Danesi took to shows! At TPF we will auction off this vile, disgusting game for charity because if there's one thing rich people love it's Trailer Park culture!"
Quoted from TreyBo69:You can program a game in a day or two. It'll just kinda suck...
But with MPF, you can certainly bang out a game to rival most EMs without much work
True! Which is why I keep suggesting it. "Boomer friendly"
Quoted from Beechwood:Beer should be the middle box, you know, the free one. Too easy.
Middle square should be IT DIES
Quoted from flynnibus:All the evidence anyone needs that drama fuels the site traffic.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John it's 4:30 pm on a Tuesday and I've been coding all day... So the answer is ZERO.
RE: rotisserie I always do them with full electronics. I have 2 rigs in my basement, foam core cartridge rig (Rotisserie Rev 2) the WW of my CGC game (Rotisserie Rev 3) and a full cab WW version of Spooky late 2023 release which I am currently coding.
The original AMH rotisserie I gave to a guy for a case of beer.
Quoted from RCA1:You have probably said already, but 2 weeks to go until what?
'Til the next 2 week deadline 
Quoted from rosh:Waiting for some side bets to start popping up in this thread, as we clearly have naysayers and supporters. Seems Ben should be willing to accept just about any wager
Some kind of betting pool on what state this will be in at TPF, whoever is closest wins?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Key part found & ordered. Going back in time. Will get new targets after testing. Only 2 available, so max of 2 games will be built.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/500-5621-05
"I'm gonna make 10 copies of a game!"
"Using what parts?"
"A very over-priced, no longer built, nearly unobtainium 5 bank drop target!"
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I am in Canada so shipping is expensive, 15% tax, + any crap import duties or fees. Plus our Canadian dollar is poor. Anyone buying into this project is getting a deal! I am happy if the build numbers remain 1 or 2.
Every few pages John says something that tells you how little he knows of business. This is one such example.
If this were a GoFundMe, a charitable gift, you could have someone in the states buy all the parts, put them in one box and UPS to Canada as a gift. No import duty. Same with donations. We could ship our spare coils slings etc to one agent here in states cheaply, then one box, again as a gift, up to you.
But since you're treating this as a business you've got to be 100% above board with taxes and shit. You've chosen to do this in a country where zero pinball parts are made. I too have recently stopped taking orders outside the US because COVID (or labor shortages) turned international shipping into a shit fest. Yes even just up to Canada.
This is one of MANY realities you've chosen to ignore or not consider in this endeavor.
Quoted from Dee-Bow:They don't share your vision or your passion. Look forward to the build!
What vision? John has yet to come up with a single idea, or rule, or feature.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Time is running out & I should not encourage any more FOMO!
Oh I wouldn't worry about that.
Pinside need a feature where people can report fraud. For too long this site has turned a blind eye as scam after scam is proposed here.
John promising 10 games in 6 months is fraudulent. Granted he won't find 9 other spiteful Icemen to cometh, but the fact he's saying it's possible, and is publicly soliciting funds for such venture, is FRAUD.
Thank God there aren't 9 other spiteful drunks to fund John up to his dream goal of 10 Whale Units.
This way he just fails at 10k, instead of failing at 5x his yearly income and getting himself into an even worse financial situation.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes Kim & I still think someone screwed me over with the TPB game. The coach is already thinking about the music for his game, & getting ready to have a few drinks tonight. Weekend is almost here boys!
You solicited a significant amount of money in a public forum for a license you didn't have. If they found this on Google that's an instant NO and a C&D.
You don't have 20-30k for a down payment.
You don't have proof of ability to manufacture.
You don't have enough sales to generate a backend worthy of their time.
If any of this is confusing for you you're in the wrong business. Go back to your beer.
John you have an industry pro willing to help for free and a sugar daddy down in Texas. That's better than what 99% of homebrewers get. You're now in a position of privilege... so shut the fuck up about the license!
You sound like a child. "I wrote a letter to Jennifer Connelly why won't she be my girlfriend?" You act as if the universe owes you this... It doesn't!
These licensors don't give a shit about you. They don't give a shit about Stern, or JJp, or Spooky. THEY JUST WANT MONEY. If you don't have it, THEY DON'T CARE.
Again you've been given a gift that far more talented and competent people would die for. Stop whining like a child and play with the cards you've been dealt, because it's a better hand than the rest of us ever got!
Quoted from Mbecker:Buuuutttt Ben, he didnt get the license!! Someone MUST have sabotaged him!! For sure. And it wasn’t himself! ……. Oh wait ..
First rule of the internet - don't post anything on the internet after you've had 12 beers.
Quoted from Mr68:I'd set the probability of this project at 90%. I really do. Most likely over budget and past the deadline but I believe it will get done eventually.
And in keeping with the theme, here's Larry.
[quoted image]
The budget is plenty (since everyone is working for free) The timeline is the crazy part.
If John said "expo 2023" we wouldn't be so hard on him.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:The Local is a bar I enjoy a lot, & the owner sold his previous one to the boys.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/trailer-park-boys-halifax-bars-business-empire-1.4178199
David Fix & his wife had a meal & drinks at the Economy Shoe Shop many years ago with myself when they visited Halifax.
Speaking of smoke, I'm getting secondhand embarrassment from all of John's "clout chasing"
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Quality, B- recap. Can get into the A range if you clean up the mixed metaphors (the prey of a whaling mission would not be a "coach").
Yeah feels like we need a "John Thesaurus" to understand what he's saying.
Quoted from Beechwood:Oh oh, pinsiders turning on each other. We need ice back so you can find a common target
You mean COACH?
Quoted from Mr68:There is only *one* coach. [quoted image]
'There's no crying in pinball!"
Question John: If there were 9 other idiots willing to buy into this stupid theme, at what point would you take their money? Assuming the games are delivered at TPF.
Are you going to have 10 games built in February, show the video of such, then collect money for TPF delivery?
Where do you get the capital to build multiple games with no money down?
John the thing I find most confusing is your continued insistence that you'll build "up to 10“ paid for units by TPF.
Why? You've said this isn't about earning profit. Do you owe money to the Tim Horton mafia? What is the motivation for increasing your liability 10x?
Ego? Pride? Regaining a lost sense of accomplishment?
Granted it's a self-correcting problem as Ice will remain your only customer until you have a game to show. My concern is that it shows a lack of experience and business acumen that threatens the project, even if it's just one unit (which even then will be barely doable)
I'm not trying to be a hater, just trying to open your eyes to reality.
Quoted from Jvspin:Hi John, these two statements seem to contradict each other considering the build starts Sept 1.
How long do people who make the mini whale list have until they have to put money into the project?
We've put more thought into this project than John has.
Still waiting for John to answer my question of "why 10 games"
I have an Ego... Lawnmower as well.
It's cool but sometimes it can't do the lawn in one charge. Especially if the grass isn't 100% dry. Like today, hoping the sun dries out the from lawn enough so I can chop down the jungle (been raining a lot lately)
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Just pounded back 10 beers at 5%, still like my French Canadians that think my consumption is excessive. Could of had more since I was not cut off but 10 was a good number. Yes Ben 1 -10 games will be built, said that from the start & I can ramp up production over the winter. I said from the start it is easier to do 1 or 2 games, but 10 is the max build before Texas in March 2023.
You're embarking on an impossible schedule and also getting plastered before the sun goes down. You're supposed to drink like that AFTER the work is done, not before.
This project is doomed.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Ben: I just had some good chips & dip to finish my supper. I think I will go to the local barcade & throw back a few more specialty beers before 10 pm. https://drinkpropeller.ca/pages/propeller-arcade
Another location & operator that I service pins, along with others. It is a growing market along with the operator that I share a workshop & service his games. Only 2 of us as full time service techs for a million people. I work on jukebox & vids as well as pinball.
You sure spend a lot of time at bars for someone so broke.
Quoted from Mr68:As I recall, Deeproot sourced their common parts from the US distributors such as Marco, Pinball Life and others. What is it you hope to achieve going this route?
It's no use. He can't answer coherently after 0 beers, you're not gonna get anything after 10.
He has no plan.
John it's great to have a goal but it needs to be realistic. As Steve Ritchie says "if two people tell ya something sucks, it sucks!" Your timeline sucks.
You seem more concerned with the big reveal than the actual process itself, like a Bridezilla who just wants to be queen for a day, marriage is secondary. "Oh my brother's house, SXSW, party in Austin!" (as a fellow drunk yes, great city to drink in)
But you aren't taking into account the road to get there. It's going to be MUCH harder than you think, even with a lot of help. I worked on AMH for over a year before we took it to a show, and even then we only got the Ghost Loop opto working the DAY BEFORE! Shows are all bailing twine and bullshit, consider how Dutch Pinball were the "belles of the ball" when they showed 3 TBL in 2014....then look what happened when they tried to go large.
Hand to god I am not making this up, the first AMH we shipped I was flashing code to the board as they were strapping it to the pallet and the truck driver, bless his soul, was patiently waiting for us to finish.
However hard you think this is gonna be, it's harder, and the fact you think it's gonna be easy means an even ruder awakening. Make sure Ice is open to a wider schedule as making TPF with even one game is gonna take a miracle.
Quoted from roffels:How long did it take for you to get your AMH whitewood good enough to bring to a show? I vaguely recall a flipping whitewood at MGC in 2012 or 2013.
Appx June 2012-October 2013 (expo), began shipping early 2014. Code was being updated for most of 2014.
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Let's be honest.. you're NO Steve Ritchie. Not even close. Sorry, but it's true. Also, I'm surprised at least 2 people haven't mentioned their opinion of the artwork on AMH to you.
AMH isn't perfect but it's better and more real than anything John is gonna make.
Oh and thanks for letting me know I'm not at the level of Steve Ritchie. I was confused until just now.
John. Why do you want to make up to 10 games by TPF?
I'm not asking CAN you make them, because the answer is no. I'm asking WHY you want to make up to that number.
I think I know why, but I want to hear your answer. If you're not doing this for profit, then WHY do you want to make 10 games by TPF instead of just one?
Can you actually answer questions, or do you just repeat the same nonsense about bar buddies and breadcrumbs ad nauseum?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:As for the other large or start up companies. They are probably looking at this build, & thinking if this guy can get it done in 6 months. Then what the hell are they doing, mini Deeproot pinball?
Seek help. Seriously.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Just hope it is not TPB!
John I see right through you. I've lost all pity.
I just hope Iceman doesn't screw you over.
Quoted from Only_Pinball:Do you have a target date for this yet?
No sooner than October 2023.
You know because... Actually coding a game takes a shit load of time.
I should clarify. October 2023 is our internal code done goal, depending on other games in the schedule the actual release might be pushed back.
Quoted from TreyBo69:It takes what, three stops to hit every bar in Benton?
Wait! Technically the VFW is a bar so 4? Depending on the day?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Uh oh. That internal goal has now become an external expectation.
I roughed in a new mode just since 9am I got this.
John don't.
Quoted from Methos:Two of the worst things you can eat for colon cancer is alcohol and processed meat.
Colon Cancer isn't fun...it's a slow and painful death. You'll be begging your Doctor or wife to give you an opium overdose.
So it's ass gout?
Quoted from brucipher:Are you still doing a game for CGC as well, or did that get scrapped?
Been on pause. I have the WW in my basement. Shoots great! But I think there's 2 games between it and CC so.... gonna be a whiiiiile.
Quoted from pookycade:But trying to normalize this behavior in the process helps no one, least of all yourself unless self-delusion is the goal here.
Considering all the other self-delusion in this plan...
Quoted from greatwichjohn:What ever music people put on their own pinball will be there own. Not my concern. Screwing with a license holder for more than 1 game for sale is not worth the risk. No beers yesterday for me, & I never heard of Canadian Hospitals giving out free beer. Must be a American thing, go to the hospital & give me a 5% beer iv.
What is your concern John? What are you bringing to this project besides pity?
What skills do you actually have? OK you can make a backglass. How does that land you the "job" of project lead?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Lots Ben already explained them numerous times here, & I have said I am not as smart as you or a bunch of experts here. I work with contractors, skilled people, & can do a bunch of stuff. I will say it again since you seem to not listen. Been working on hundreds of pinball games the last 27 years, do vids, & jukebox service also. In my province there is only a few pinball techs to service public & private pinball machines for a million population.
Manufactured hundreds of playfields, backglass, & did many playfield change outs. Charlie certainly knows who I am from the early uv inkjet days for playfield restoration. Maybe ask him if he thinks I am as stupid as you seem to believe.
My project is moving along as planned. Sleuths are very slow here to name the local programmer.
"I'm a car mechanic, so that means I can start the next Tesla"
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:OMG! The discovery of the hot dog straw on this thread coincides with a worldwide mustard shortage. As every non-weirdo knows … it’s mustard on hot dogs and ketchup on burgers. Paris has no mustard. Dijon region is dry too. Few more months and the world will be on its knees.
Other catastrophe happening is heat in China above 104 shuts city factories down to have enough power to cool its people. They aren’t doing this from kindness of their hearts but it is written into laws to protect public health. 70 days streak over 100 degrees. No factories means no chips. Oh boy.
To quote Road House "It's gonna get worse before it gets better"
Quoted from vdojaq:John, as usual, here after your drinking binge stuttering and stammering like a drunken sailor, not a captain. You continually make your own bed only to come back the next day to blame everyone but yourself. Take a look at your surroundings John, no one put you there but yourself. There is no pity at this point. It's a Tuesday night and you're proud of 9 or 10 beers. Oh, but it's the Canadian way. No John, it's your way, your choices. Yes, you have a drinking problem. I am very sorry you don't see it, or continually deny it. All classic symptoms of alcoholism. As much as I like to be in your corner, I have a feeling you may have some demons in your corner that just might impede your ability to meet your deadlines. Maybe I am wrong, but there are 100's of posts all over Pinside that you have written that may support otherwise. Tolerance does not always mean, I am OK.
This project is dead. I don't know who's more delusional, a broke pensioner who desperately wants to get hired by a pinball company, or a drunken lawyer who's funding this madness sheerly out of spite.
No offense to Jon Norris, but this ain't gonna happen.
Quoted from ElectricLou:benheck please change your avatar picture! YOU ARE the voice of reason, your pedigree is incredible but everytime I see your pic you look like a… « R » word
You are ready for a change!
PS; Im canadian so assume I’m drunk
That photo was taken at MGC many years ago. I was tweaking pinball code AT THE SHOW and double-fisting beers.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Hey now, Steve Ritchie allegedly drew Flash on an airplane cocktail menu. Sold nearly 20k
Sure but GWJ is no Steve Ritchie.
Quoted from rotordave:A “pinball artist” will charge you YOUR WHOLE BUDGET just for the art package for this pin.
It’s a shit load of work. People don’t know how time consuming it is.
rd
Yup it's 10-20k easily for anyone worth a damn. Unless you find someone who LOOOOOVES the theme and works super cheap... haha good luck with this theme.
Plus any license, even Trailer Park Boys, would have been 20k down + $30-$80 per unit + oh wait you're not selling enough to make this worth our time CLICK goes the phone.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Ben I did not even get a phone call. Just the C & D to not contact them again or the boys.
Jeez. You don't even understand metaphor. You're going to make a shit-tacular game.
Quoted from vdojaq:I have a very serious question for John.
Why?
You are doing nothing but assembling this machine. You are not designing anything, you are not coding anything, you are not creating any art, you are not creating any music or call outs, you are not creating anything of your own. You are assembling a whitewood created by Jon Norris. You are using an idea with everyone else's creations. You would at least think you would have created/drawn your own playfield idea, then got Jon Norris to help you with that. This again, is just like the whole back glass and playfield project you did. You had everyone else do all the artwork files and the leg work. All you did was send it all to the printers.
So again, I ask, WHY?
Ego. Clout. Rubbing elbows. Getting the TPB to be his BFFs. And hopefully a pinball industry job.
It's all in vain, this is just a redneck saying "when I win the lottery" with extra steps.
Quoted from Beechwood:Question for Mr. Heck, as one who has built a pin and had it produced, is the clout associated with it worth the work? Are your interactions with others at shows better now that you are an insider yourself? Do you feel validated in the pinball community?
I'm a pretty small fry compared to say Scott Danesi. But it is flattering when legends know who you are and you don't even have to introduce yourself.
But I'm in the for the money. AMH paid for a huge chunk of my house and future games are going towards my nieces college.
Quoted from RyanStl:Wow, the level of preachers, mother in law want to be's, and life police is amazing. Why don't some of you exam your own perfect lives. Imagine going into the cigar thread and be a broken record on cancer or reign on the bourbon thread. Tell the watch people to get an Apple watch over and over because they are clearly wasting money on those old fashioned mechanical watches.
John, keep it up man. I'm rooting for you.
This hobby has been plagued with scam artists and startup failures. Predaturd, Jplop, DP, Heighway and the atom bomb Derppoop.
John has shown no ability to produce and is asking for money. He MUST be challenged.
"Benefit of the doubt" has cost this hobby MILLIONS.
Quoted from Mr68:I say go for it and you have already provided some great insight and advice to John. But maybe try doing it with a little less vitriol and personal insults.
John is not Jpop, Andrew Heighway or Robert Mueller. Far from it.
He asked the community for money. And he's running the same failed business model as JPOP which is thinking the cost of development can be amortized across 10-20 games. It can't.
I'm sick of scammers. John is STILL fishing for whales. If he was pitching a license people actually wanted, we'd have a problem.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:So now Ben is coming around to there will be 1 or 2 Ice games for Texas in March 2023 SXSW & TPF. That they have moved from being DOA to likely playable with more investment by Ice. Could be but I am trying to keep them at $10k USD each with out a industry professional artist. But ultimately my investor will decide the plan.
No John, I am still sticking with "complete failure". Maybe you haul some POS WW to Expo a year from now but you won't make TPF.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Have you started to learn how to wire a game to the FAST platform? Is that still the system being used? Has it been ordered? Because as I pointed out a few days ago, it's on backorder. Don't see how a coder can start without a flipping white wood (well actually I do see how they could start, but they could have also already started work by this point
80 year bad parts shortages? That won't stop Wonder Boy John! How will he deal with it? Well he's had 8 beers by 5 pm that's how!
Quoted from Beechwood:Actually, it's brilliant. Even though the art was not top notch it sold the whole run and paid for most of Ben's house. If they ever rerun the game with new stunning art it can be a CE and command higher price.
No it paid for like a 1/3 of my house, after taxes. I haven't decided which rooms exactly.
Ice WISHES he'd get a game as good as AMH out of John. He knows he won't HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Probably didn't go thirsty tho. Irony
I also wasn't spending half my time at a bar, because I was working my ass off! (pinball + day job + side projects to help disabled gamers)
Quoted from Ilushka85:I do want to add that if that shitty game (amh) paid for most of his house it’s probably and equally shitty house. Sorry I bought an amh and it was terrible. Not just the art.
Still better than what John will make, and it launched a company that now employs 45 people.
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Who fukkin cares already! You sound like a donkah repeating yourself over and over. Even starting to lose minions to the other side. Save your story for Maury
I'm not the one trying to get investment on an impossible schedule for a shit theme with no plan of delivery.
I'll talk smack all I want!
5 beers BTW
Never said it was a scam. Said it would fail.
Zidware didn't start as a scam, but through incompetence it became one. That's what I'm warning against here. If 9 other people wanted this theme John would take their money and promise a game by TPF and that's a problem.
John even if you do make it to TPF, you're going to be fixing wires and adjusting ball guides the night before the show. You'll wheel the game onto the floor and if you're super lucky your code guy will be there to do a final flash on the floor and then get feedback from players.
And as you're soldering the last joint as the hall doors open you'll think "Man, Ben was sure right. I would have never been able to build 10 of these by now"
Quoted from greatwichjohn:SXSW in my brothers driveway if you believe some people here. Will it be the only one, or multiples of games.
It will be one. When you take on a risky project you don't do 10x of it. If you had more experience you'd know this. You will realize this by the TPF deadline, when you barely get one game flipping in time for that.
Quoted from vdojaq:Should have picked a better example because that wasn't an insult, it was a high probability of reality.
Yup, I was simply explaining what all creators go through when it comes to shows and deadlines. And if John manages to get 1 game to TPF, he'll realize how foolish he was to think 10 would have been possible.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Just got back to the workshop from my local bar & had 4 beers. New Orleans style jazz outside, & that big horn looked heavy when the guy walked past. Ben will freak out since I would guess 2 or more working pins will be at Texas, maybe more.
Ha. Nobody else is going to buy in before the 1st. Stick to making 1 game for your Coach Master and you MIGHT have a chance...
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I got some free paneling from a friend that I might use for whitewood testing.
You're serious?
OK I'm starting to believe the "this is all an epic troll" theory a bit more...
Quoted from TreyBo69:I spent my day putting together a work bench. The things you get done when not drinking all day…[quoted image]
Now you are ready for MONO MANUFACTURE!
Quoted from TreyBo69:The idea of putting together eight of these makes me want to drink heavily.
That's obviously why deeproot failed!
Bench looks nice though!
Why is the investor the "coach"?
Serious question John, what is your role in this project? If you can get Jon Norris to help, or local friends great! But what is your role?
What will be your day to day duties when it comes to making sure this project is completed? Try to answer without saying "it may be this.... Or maybe this" No. It's one thing. What is it?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Like I have said previously even I have a few people interested in joining the pod. They are waiting to see the result of the build, & like Doug I will not be posting that list here publicly. In my area we all know who is a whale, kind of hard to hide your wealth & pinball collections from everyone.
Hey if you make this prototype, take to a show, people like it and want more, that's great!
Just don't shoot yourself in the foot trying to make 10 off the bat instead of 1. Even if you have people commit over the next 6 months. Keep it to 1 for TPF and then go from there.
There's a huge difficulty gulf between "a prototype" and "multiple production units" 10 may as well be 100, and once you go down that path the amount you need to make the pricing worthwhile tends to multiply as well.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes Ben the plan is to start with one built in the shop & go from there. Then number 2 & so on if time is there up to a max 10 in 6 months. If things go bad there will be the only 1 or 2 for Texas in March.
John you really need to let go of this delusion of 10 units by March. It won't happen. Period. And if you take money from 9 other whales and promise that it can be done by then, you're committing "fraud by ignorance" like your buddy JPOP.
"If things go bad we will only take 1 or 2 games" no John. If the stars align and a Leprechaun farts on your face and you work your ass off and get 1 game working for TPF that will be THINGS GOING RIGHT.
I believe you're going to fail because you are working under a "best case scenario" instead of "worst case scenario" Like the hare chasing the tortoise you're so sure of your success you spend all your "pre-season time" (to use your sports analogies) at bars, and seek to be planning the SWSX reveal party more than the build.
Concentrate on ONE GAME. That's your only hope of having something for Texas.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Come on Ben lighten up & do not take this build so seriously.
Somebody has to. You sure as hell aren't.
Quoted from vdojaq:John, quit with this absolute nonsense. You build the whitewood on the same material you use for the actual playfield. You CANNOT use strand or MDF for ANY type of playfield otherwise this is a complete disaster of a joke.
John has no clue what he's doing. This project will fail. And with that, I drain.
3 months later
Avi, all you have to do to succeed is to do the opposite of John:
A) Work hard
B) Actually heed the advice from the community, professionals and parts vendors
C) Have a realistic timeline (6 months for whitewood? Sure. Full game? Never)
D) Parallel planning, be looking for a programmer months before you need one. Study how PROC FAST or. MPF works before the white wood is ready. Use your evenings to get software ready on PC instead of getting drunk.
E) No "busy work procrastination" John could have used that Norris file and gone straight to CNC, instead he's wasted 3 months noodling on a piece of shit wood that he was too lazy to bandsaw into the right size.
But if you do this, have a backup plan in case GWJ gets jealous and kicks you out of shop.
Dee-Bow, it's two-fold:
1) Yes, absolutely I will donate time to spite Ice. He and GWJ refused to take any advice and look what they got for it. A $6000 pile of wires, beer cans and expired meat.
2) Somewhat to the above, yes pinball is hard but GWJ hadn't even gotten to the hard part yet (he doesn't know this because he doesn't know what he's doing) Squirting out a WW in less than a week will demonstrate just how TERRIBLE this build has been. Plus it's X-man, the time of charitable giving!
Quoted from Dee-Bow:To be fair, these same people offering Avi help called John a thief, scam artist, and a wanna-be member of the pinabll elite. Their intentions where NEVER to help or offer meaningful opinions. They constantly shit on every choice he made including how to treat his wife, the operator, how to eat, where to enjoy his pension. Honestly, it was fukkin disgusting how they talked to him. But that's just my opinion.
AVI never asked the community for $100k to build 10 games from scratch in 6 months despite having no talent or work ethic.
That's attempted fraud and it needs to end on Pinside.
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