How is this a scam? Ice knows the entire plan here and is comfortable with the risks. I look forward to seeing this get built.

Yeah, I hear ya. And I also know that John is a grown adult.

But I've know GWJ for a long time now and he has an innocence to his persona that brings out the protective mother in me.
Other times I want to smack him upside his head with a wooden spoon and wash his mouth out with soap.

Sep 1 GWJ should go dark on Pinside and begin posting his daily thoughts behind a paywall. I’m hooked on the saga and John might as well capitalize it further.

Train Wreck level - $20 per month for six months - 24/7 web camera and private discussion group for members and where GWJ will enthrall his audience by posting everything there.

Magical Mystery Machine level - $50 per month for six months - meet the brains - GWJ or Coach/mini-whale - Ice or playfield Designer - Jon Norris.

Crazy how much fighting there is before any work is done

It’s also increasingly harder to tell who is trolling vs sincere in their encouragement

He really should right? Will be fun either way

Received some really good ideas via pm that don’t want to get hooked up in the drama

Evidently, existentialism is quite existent in John's social circles. Who knew?

It's the perfect philosophy for this project: the game's existence precedes its actual essence.

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If you ever travel to Norway or Sweden, greatwichjohn , let me know, beer and housing is on me.

Generous offer but I don't think the bus goes to Norway.

Kind as ever.

Never said it was a scam. Said it would fail.

Zidware didn't start as a scam, but through incompetence it became one. That's what I'm warning against here. If 9 other people wanted this theme John would take their money and promise a game by TPF and that's a problem.

"do not have to deal with hundreds of customers screaming for parts, how slow I am, the color is wrong, the cad is wrong, everything is wrong with me & my past products."

True, you only have to deal with one, and he's a lawyer.

Better get outside counsel...

That really would be cool if people are reaching out to you behind the scenes to assist..

I am in the skeptical, but hopeful camp btw.

I think the more attention this gets the bigger it gets! Might not be bad for both parties involved. Maybe that's what iceclown wants waiting for him to attack my collection and time on Pinside in 1,2,3…see Toy Story thread. Regardless I'm having fun reading conversations that people like to have with themselves. I forgot to add, woke, triggered, lol, nobody cares. Also this stupid emoji

Had a pitcher today. Do not think I will get to Norway or Sweden in the future, but who knows. My goal is to get to Texas next March. Like I have said it is up to Ice to decide on the title & art. Please do not bombard him with playfield changes. Everything will remain mostly in tack on the Jon Norris design. I am not into paywall or what ever. Also this is not big brother project with cameras following all my movements 24 hours a day & my beer drinking routine.

$20 is a small price to pay for the privilege of insulting GWJ and his stupid ideas and Coach his stupid ideas for 30ish days
#wokehonkeys

I'm on martini #2.
Shaken, not tilted.

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Yes & Jpop handed out some trinkets. Maybe I will bring some napkins to Texas. Kind of fitting for Ben that thinks this is a fail before it even starts. Also his low bar has been set at a Jpop style playfield only for Expo next year.

The premise was if John went dark on Pinside Sep 1. Guess he’s not interested. Maybe the big brother camera idea was over the line but if he wants to keep posting here for free, that’s fine I won’t complain.

Paywall idea may have generated $2k of secondary income over 6 months. Could that money be used for making the game more awesome? John already shot down the idea of accepting gofundme income which could have reached multiple thousands of dollars also

What kind of person would go on an impossible journey that is severely short on budget and turn away 50% more budget for free? Not a super genius, nor even a rationale adult.

What happens if he picks TPB?

Not going to happen.

I had a double shot margarita tonight and a very nice Hefeweizen from Shiner, Texas.

I did have 1 beer and 2 margaritas today. I have not changed my mind on anything.

Dude your game sucks period end of story. It doesn’t matter if John makes a game or how bad it will be it doesn’t change anything about what you have made. Congrats on making a game … but I have seen homebrew reskins come out better.

People in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks.

So I was one of the biggest ones on the “it’s a scam” bandwagon. I am ready to declare this is officially not a scam, the farthest thing from a scam, throwing in the towel on that one. There is more than enough “buyer beware” signs that Icey win lose or draw is fully consented on this one.

I mean I still think we ain’t seen nothing yet here on how bad this might get. But if Icey keeps signing checks over that’s on him.

The real show begins when Icey’s money gets spent and yet doesn’t produce the results he was expecting. We won’t be informed of any of that back room friendly DM “discussion”. There will just be a different TV program in the prime time slot one day without prior announcement of the mid season replacement

Dude, what have you made? Pinball or not?

I made money. End of story.

Just to make this more fun…. I do not want johns game. But I will put up 5k that John makes a game before Ben makes another one.

Any takers ?

Yeah …. well ….. that’s just like your opinion man.

Pinside ratings disagree with you, but to each their own.

Yup opinions are like assholes everyone has one.

Thought the betting pool was cold. Coming back to life.

Making money and actually making something are two entirely different things. I respect people who can actually make things. But that’s just me I guess.

When you’ve actually built a working pinball or any engineering contribution to the world come back and let us know. Til then buh bye, hot air and all.

As long as this project remains a one-off for Doug, it's an unenforceable handshake deal, for all practical purposes, in my opinion.

Nobody doubts that Doug will honor his payment obligation. In fact, I suspect that most of us here anticipate substantial overages that he'll gladly pay to achieve his objectives.

If the deal sours, Doug isn't going to sue John even if they have a contract in which Texas law is specified as applicable. John is judgment-proof, residing in Canada, not worth pursuing and Doug knows it. John's only assets appear to be an electric grill and a bus pass.

John's financial exposure is fairly limited with vendors, as long as invoices are directly billed to Doug or Doug pays funds to John in advance.

Succinctly stated, this project only becomes a legal dispute if intellectual property issues arise and/or if a charity is defrauded, both of which seem unlikely.

This might be the ONLY pinball venture, tangentially related to deeproot (however remotely by virtue of the Greatwich John connection to the deeproot thread) which steers clear of litigation.

If there are no takers on the bet I will donate it to making ices game better

Considering I lead a team of 100 engineers currently pretty sure I have built many things. Hence the money. It didn’t grow on my money tree

Just hand over the $5K, Ben's next machine, his whitewood, is already in his basement.
You can take your viagra wallet and put it back in your pants.

A white wood isn’t a production game. Let him sell a full complete game.

Well, John's is not a production game either. It's a one off, homebrew at best. You lose.

Agreed I would be truly stunned even in the worst of outcomes it ever ventures on that path. The worst that happens here is some hurt feelings for GWJ if Ice takes away the sandbox

Didn’t see you showing up to bet. Bring your 5k.

Help. I'm having a Deeproot flashback.

I just saved you $5K, say thank you. I am not that stupid with my money.

You guys forgot that Doug has already stated he might double down. Also people we know might join in after September 1. So it likely will not be just 1 game. For almost 2 months I firmly explained 1 - 10 max games will be built in 6 months for SXSW & TPF. That has not changed & still no one on the interest list. 4 days to go.

My fear here is actually for John. Ice could walk away at any time, for any reason. That leaves John holding the bag. Both sides need to equally understand the risks involved.

Ice claims he is in for the full $10K, but we all know shit happens and things could change.

Ice has stated MANY things over the years

What has changed? Nothing?

Correct nothing has changed with my plan. There are other mini whales out there, might be people we know, or maybe there will be a further twist in this build.

John here is the simple truth. People are not on the interested list for a few reasons 1) they have no idea what they are actually spending $10K on 2) to most of us potential mini-whales $10K is still a decent chunk of change we don’t like to throw away 3) on a value proposition basis a one off “who knows what it will look like” versus a Stern premium that I know I can sell for a few $100 less than I paid is a no brainer. 4) the theme is just not that enticing to most.

If you really want people to spend $10K eagerly on your wares you are going to have to do much better than this.

Why would I need to do that. I have a plan & it is working out fine for me. Buy a pin from a manufacturer or go to the track & bet on the long shot. Could be just 1 or 2 pins built like you guys think, or it could be more.