This topic is closed.
Quoted from PinballBuzz:Two and a half year in the making working on several games, money has not been the issue, its the time and getting it right. Over the past year when we thought we were ready something always came up that needed time to work out! My two cents! John is really enjoying the attention he is getting from all the posters!!
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Punny Factory unexpectedly swooping in with the reasonable take!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I do take in all the advice, but I will go my own direction or plan. If you have not figured out I have no money to do everything myself, what more can I say about my personal bankruptcy, & living on my meager pension of $23k US. As for Ben & others I can build 1 or more fully working prototype pins in 6 months. If not you guys get to celebrate my personal failure in Texas next year, or maybe the project dies. We will soon see in early August.
Celebrate ???? Why would anyone celebrate a failure ? It’s just wasted capital and time that could have been put to better use. I didn’t celebrate Deeproots failure, I didn’t even celebrate JPOPs failure. I would like to see them both banned from the industry for what they did. And Robert can go to jail for the elderly folks he stole retirement savings from.
This is what you don’t get John, nobody wants to see you fail. But fail you will because in fact you DONT take in all the advice. In fact you take in precisely ZERO advice. In fact you seemingly don’t even learn from your own past experience. It like Bullwinkle pulling a rabbit out of a hat - this time for sure.
If/when you do scam people (despite your good intentions to not do so) I will advocate for the same: that you never be allowed to post up any project which has not already been seen thru from start to finish, paid for out of your own pocket, and is ready to ship today.
Quoted from LORDDREK:Everybody gets a box of parts…
Whale, mini Whale or Trout version option; John will come to your home and assemble the game.
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:Whale, mini Whale or Trout version option; John will come to your home and assemble the game.
You got the wrong John. Jpop might still be looking for his next pinball company to work at, or might already be doing stuff privately at one now.
I got my own plan, if I do not take the endless advice given here by people that do not understand anything I am trying to do. Please move on to something else. If not please stop complaining to my endless responses (loops as you call them), to the constant repeated questions I have already laid out.
Got my pod of mini whales standing by. So I have achieved a major step on moving forward with the build.
I don't understand why people are objecting to John using the term, Whale. I use it in the very same context as he does and I know many others that do also.
**And its in the title of this thread. TWICE!
Anyway, if you're going to be critical, here are some alternatives for you.
.
1 wail (resized).png2 imagen_1_1600338479 (resized).jpg3 9746718_1 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Dee-Bow:There's clearly more money than brains in pinball if this is how you go about your vigilance! How do you consider this a scam? His plan and idea is clearly laid out. Whether it will work or not is to be determined..definitely doesn't seem like scamming though.
You are absolutely right ! John gets a contract with his customers that says to the effect of:
I am going to try my best to build a machine on the dollars you gave me in the next 6 months. You (the undersigned) realize that:
1) I have never built a game before
2) multiple people in the industry who have built a game have told me the budget is too low and time frame too short
3) my last set of projects ran years past their deadline
4) I have no personal assets you can go after given my bankruptcy
5) I have to hire multiple people because I don’t have the full skill set
6) I do not yet have the license but I’m working on it.
7) I have no skin in the game except my reputation
8) Multiple more experienced and better funded project that tried to do the same failed with customers losing all their money
9) all the money is needed up front for your game
10) if I go past the 6 month deadline then there are no consequences to me personally for doing so
11) if I fail to deliver you a game, or the game you want, you agree that you have no recourse.
12) if the game is thru some miracle good and other people want to manufacture it, you agree you have no claims whatsoever to any of the assets I developed with your money
Then yes, that constitutes full disclosure, buyer beware, and no matter the outcome would NOT be considered a scam.
I strongly suspect that John intends to make none of those disclosures if he finds a way to get this funded.
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Deleted post
That’s amazing! I don’t know any pinball people around here and those that know me will tell you that I don’t hang out with pinball people. But go ahead with you silly little haha that totally happened.
Quoted from pookycade:You are absolutely right ! John gets a contract with his customers that says to the effect of:
I am going to try my best to build a machine on the dollars you gave me in the next 6 months. You (the undersigned) realize that:
1) I have never built a game before
2) multiple people in the industry who have built a game have told me the budget is too low and time frame too short
3) my last set of projects ran years past their deadline
4) I have no personal assets you can go after given my bankruptcy
5) I have to hire multiple people because I don’t have the full skill set
6) I do not yet have the license but I’m working on it.
7) I have no skin in the game except my reputation
8) Multiple more experienced and better funded project that tried to do the same failed with customers losing all their money
9) all the money is needed up front for your game
10) if I go past the 6 month deadline then there are no consequences to me personally for doing so
11) if I fail to deliver you a game, or the game you want, you agree that you have no recourse.
12) if the game is thru some miracle good and other people want to manufacture it, you agree you have no claims whatsoever to any of the assets I developed with your money
Then yes, that constitutes full disclosure, buyer beware, and no matter the outcome would NOT be considered a scam.
I strongly suspect that John intends to make none of those disclosures if he finds a way to get this funded.
Why not use that. Lays out most of what is going on. Not trying to join the infamous scam group of pinball building.
Quoted from pookycade:You are absolutely right ! John gets a contract with his customers that says to the effect of:
I am going to try my best to build a machine on the dollars you gave me in the next 6 months. You (the undersigned) realize that:
1) I have never built a game before
2) multiple people in the industry who have built a game have told me the budget is too low and time frame too short
3) my last set of projects ran years past their deadline
4) I have no personal assets you can go after given my bankruptcy
5) I have to hire multiple people because I don’t have the full skill set
6) I do not yet have the license but I’m working on it.
7) I have no skin in the game except my reputation
8) Multiple more experienced and better funded project that tried to do the same failed with customers losing all their money
9) all the money is needed up front for your game
10) if I go past the 6 month deadline then there are no consequences to me personally for doing so
11) if I fail to deliver you a game, or the game you want, you agree that you have no recourse.
12) if the game is thru some miracle good and other people want to manufacture it, you agree you have no claims whatsoever to any of the assets I developed with your money
Then yes, that constitutes full disclosure, buyer beware, and no matter the outcome would NOT be considered a scam.
I strongly suspect that John intends to make none of those disclosures if he finds a way to get this funded.
Where do I sign??
You got to join the small pod. Time is running out (FOMO) might start to be taking effect as I am still here, & the project has not Died yet.
Quoted from DBLM:Its Shark Week greatwichjohn. Perhaps you ought to hit them up. I hear they have money.
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Go ahead & ask. If they want me to audition & they do not pay expenses. You guys would like pay the expenses? I have my paper napkins ready, & likely a local brewery will give me some free beer!
Quoted from vdojaq:What makes John's idea or plan any different than JPOP, Skit B or Heighway Pinball. I am not talking intentions, I want to know HOW it is different.
@dee-bow, still waiting for your response. Or are you skipping this to save face?
Quoted from vdojaq:Dee-Bow, still waiting for your response. Or are you skipping this to save face?
Thought I answered that one.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I have not really talked to Dave Fix about what is going on there.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I have no knowledge of American Pinball or what Dave Fix is up to since we have cordial emails after his move
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Dave Fix & I have not had a good talk.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Like the 2 new pinball companies opening soon as per Dave Fix talk.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Dave Fix is probably thinking the same with the shit show here.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I will say Dave Fix never called a rich group of pinball collectors whales.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:The 2 new companies still are silent that Dave Fix & likely others in the industry know are coming out in the State over the next 2 years.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Thought I answered that one.
Well then, please summarize how you are different.
You guys asked me not to name that person I know over many years, the one who did not use the word WHALE, & who was the first one to know of my game plan at the Pintastic Show. Got to say Gabe & staff do a great job. Fun talking with industry people I do not know!
Quoted from vdojaq:Well then, please summarize how you are different.
Post #1126
Quoted from benheck:Hey guys! Counter offer. So a new car costs 45k right? I am going to design a new car for 60k!
Any dumb ass sucker whales want in? Iceman, this has your name written all over it. PM me whales!
Oh qualifications! One time I changed a tire, so I know exactly how to do this. Also I like beer.
Not even close to similar. It’s more like “I’ve worked on cars my whole adult life, rebuilt an engine or two, do some really nice body work, and know a guy with a spray gun. So trust me when I say it can be done within an inhuman timeframe.”
I think that metaphor is far more accurate…
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I have seen many road blocks & failures of my own. Still firmly believe I can get my prototype built in the time frame I have given.
When belief gets in the way of facts, it results in dead companies & hurt customers.
Hope you don’t mind giving your beer money & pension to a lawyer.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:have a plan in place
Pipe dream
Quoted from Mr68:I don't understand why people are objecting to John using the term, Whale.... its in the title of this thread. TWICE!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I used the term in the title because John used it repeatedly in the first thread so many times while everyone was telling him it was a bad choice. I thought it was hilarious.
Quoted from Rarehero:When belief gets in the way of facts, it results in dead companies & hurt customers.
Hope you don’t mind giving your beer money & pension to a lawyer.
Pensions are protected from creditors and when you are judgment proof with no assets the whole “lawyer threat” is a non starter going in for anyone interested.
No recourse. It’s no secret. Just part of the “facts”. Stick to the personal insults.
Quoted from LORDDREK:Not even close to similar. It’s more like “I’ve worked on cars my whole adult life, rebuilt an engine or two, do some really nice body work, and know a guy with a spray gun. So trust me when I say it can be done within an inhuman timeframe.”
I think that metaphor is far more accurate…
Actually I used a spray gun myself on all the playfields I did with waterbourne interior gloss varethane. 2 coats to seal the bare wood with inserts installed myself also. Hundreds over the years! I can go on about other stuff I can do to make a game.
Quoted from iceman44:Pensions are protected from creditors and when you are judgment proof with no assets the whole “lawyer threat” is a non starter going in for anyone interested.
No recourse. It’s no secret. Just part of the “facts”. Stick to the personal insults.
Yes even when I was working I got numerous legal threats from people in the pinball industry. Lots of people here have selective memories.
I canceled my Seawitch repro order from John right after his 1000th post that he was sick again delaying the project. He had no record of my payment and needed me to supply proof that I ordered from him.
Bad project management and poor money management that put him into bankruptcy.
Quoted from sanctumwear:Pipe dream
I should build a UFO or Area 51 pinball machine as number 2. Look for it Texas 2024.
Quoted from sanctumwear:I canceled my Seawitch repro order from John right after his 1000th post that he was sick again delaying the project. He had no record of my payment and needed me to supply proof that I ordered from him.
Bad project management and poor money management that put him into bankruptcy.
Again very true, numerous loss of lists either on paper & computer backup. Happens to even other pro companies. Actually it was having a $500 US playfield delivered to USA guys that did me in. Along with either contractor or personal mistakes of my own over the many years. Do not think I scammed anyone, & definitely lost a shitload of money & time trying to help out the pinball collectors. Times have changed, no excuse for not having products ready to go with all the problems in the world.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Again very true, numerous loss of lists either on paper & computer backup. Happens to even other pro companies.
No, it doesn't.
Never mind that you bring no discernible skills to the table to see this project through, you also have never run a successful company or project to completion. All your previous pinball projects failed. Although I guess I'm impressed with your ability to completely ignore reality and your self-esteem - I wish I could maintain your confidence in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Numerous files were lost from numerous printers I used along with the sign shop. Shit happens to other companies, & they are still in business. I would use them again.
Wrong I ran numerous playfields & backglass to completion over the 15 years. Likely the number is around 1000 out in games around the world. But my record keeping is shit so believe what you want as always.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Actually I used a spray gun myself on all the playfields I did with waterbourne interior gloss varethane. 2 coats to seal the bare wood with inserts installed myself also. Hundreds over the years! I can go on about other stuff I can do to make a game.
No your right it was the printing you contracted out. It was hard to transfer that over to the car build metaphor in any meaningful way…
Yeah why are (Iceman and 2 other people) giving the money to John? Why not give it to the people actually doing the work, such as:
1) John's drinking buddy who will try and make the PF with a tablesaw and Forstner bits.
2) John's drinking buddy who will try to code MPF in FORTRAN
3) John's drinking buddy whose granddaughter is "really good at art" and will produce something you'd see at a hippie farmers market.
4) John's drinking buddy who will cut plastics with a band saw
5) John's drinking buddy who will build metal ramps with a stick welder
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Shit happens to other companies, & they are still in business.
Yup, just look at "Pinball Basement."
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Again very true, numerous loss of lists either on paper & computer backup.
Here's some business advice. Going forward, backup your computer on the cloud. And ALWAYS have a paper record to back that up if anything goes awry.
See, advice to help you succeed.
Now start building a cabinet!!!
Quoted from benheck:3) John's drinking buddy whose granddaughter is "really good at art" and will produce something you'd see at a hippie farmers market.
giphy (9).gifQuoted from benheck:Yeah why are (Iceman and 2 other people) giving the money to John? Why not give it to the people actually doing the work, such as:
1) John's drinking buddy who will try and make the PF with a tablesaw and Forstner bits.
2) John's drinking buddy who will try to code MPF in FORTRAN
3) John's drinking buddy whose granddaughter is "really good at art" and will produce something you'd see at a hippie farmers market.
4) John's drinking buddy who will cut plastics with a band saw
5) John's drinking buddy who will build metal ramps with a stick welder
With all this drinking, there will be at least 2 fingers lost, and several trips to the Home Depot
Ben I do have numerous people that love pinball & beer. Maybe ask Spooky next time if he has any non drinkers on staff there. Do you not drink yourself? Do not think I have ever gone to a contractor to ask if their staff drinks on their own time. Must be something new in the USA.
Quoted from benheck:something you'd see at a hippie farmers market.
download (resized).jpgQuoted from benheck:Yeah why are (Iceman and 2 other people) giving the money to John? Why not give it to the people actually doing the work, such as:
1) John's drinking buddy who will try and make the PF with a tablesaw and Forstner bits.
2) John's drinking buddy who will try to code MPF in FORTRAN
3) John's drinking buddy whose granddaughter is "really good at art" and will produce something you'd see at a hippie farmers market.
4) John's drinking buddy who will cut plastics with a band saw
5) John's drinking buddy who will build metal ramps with a stick welder
Every point is wrong, Ben my contractors have the proper skills & equipment. Same as myself for doing a complete assembly. Have I ever said anything about your first build (love)? Wish people would just wait & see early August if the project dies. It will not be from No Whales!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Post #1126
So ya see, in John’s mind until he fails, his plan is different. But he won’t fail because his plan is different. And if not for the different plan he would probably fail too. In fact if these other people who failed had his plan they wouldn’t have failed either. And they wouldn’t have failed because they had John’s different plan. And the reason it’s different is that John’s different plan is not to fail. So it’s different. Why does nobody except John get this ? Shouldn’t it be obvious ?
It should but people would rather see this project fail or get to call me a scammer. Everyone makes mistakes except for Ben maybe. Even my contractors screwed things up at times. I seem to be put it the group of people that took multi millions Deeproot Pinball, million maybe with Jpop, Andrew Heighway million, Skit B, others. So far I have 3 people with a total risk of $30k US, so I guess put me in that group even though I have not failed yet on this build project.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:It should but people would rather see this project fail or get to call me a scammer. Everyone makes mistakes except for Ben maybe. Even my contractors screwed thing up at times. Put it the group of people that took multi millions, million maybe with Jpop, Andrew Heighway million, Skit B, others. So far I have 3 people with a total risk of $30k US, so I guess put me in that group.
Ah, so what you are saying John is that if you take the $30K and completely fail then you wouldn’t think of yourself as a scammer because the dollar amount wasn’t high enough ?!?!?! Interesting. Hmm. At what dollar figure exactly if you take other peoples money and fail does it constitute a scam to you ?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:So far I have 3 people with a total risk of $30k US, so I guess put me in that group even though I have not failed yet on this build project.
Why do you think you can afford to hire a designer, artist, sound designer, programmer, pay for the license & and build 3 games for $30k? It’s a financial impossibility….and the longer it takes (and it will), you’ll be burning more cash.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:So far I have 3 people with a total risk of $30k US
Is the project guaranteed to happen now that you have 3 buyers ready to go?
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