You don't think that is part of Iceman's issue here?

I would love to see an updated needs* list from Beechwood with parts/pieces needed.

From what I understand, he already has the whitewood design, CNC, ball guides, and....?

Well so glad someone didn’t give John 100,000 instead of just 6,000

Merry X-mas Ice, I know you owe us nothing but can you possibly tell us what the $6K was spent on? John was asked this many times but with zero response.

You guys have seen it all documented right here. You know as much as I do.

The New Year was going to be the accounting and status report with John.

Much to the chagrin of many here, I’m not up for funding John helping do another build of a different game.

Sorry but that’s it. It’s just pinball.

Merry Xmas.

If you change John to Iceman. it's probably true LOL

With the lack of progress this was the inevitable conclusion. Can't blame Iceman for not wanting to give this a blank check.

Narrator: "It died."

I’d wager John has spent about 3 grand on parts.

Why would I list the pinball parts & beer donations here. Pictures posted daily & Avi seems like he would like to record the circus going on at the shop. I will continue on with the build of my interpretation of the Jon Norris 3 spinners myself. All the parts & what ever is done, Doug can decide by early March. The way things are going maybe my project (flipping whitewood) will be what you see here or not for TPF 2023. The parts & electronics will remain with my whitewood which the coach has paid for. BMW still next to the building, & Mr BMW got his new job starting in 2 weeks. Another vid cabinet rescued from a storage unit, & bought by the operator. Will get new glass doors, & new marque installed. Other things I do to pay my share of the workshop & power.

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Nice, a glimpse of what Avi has in mind. Might have to hitch a ride out of here, just like Taxi.

I’m not sure that a side by side build would detract from the amount of care and attention already exhibited by GWJ. If anything it would keep him in the shop more which can’t be a bad thing. I think everyone wants to see you get something for your effort.

Are you still 100% planning to be at TPF?

If so, I would really like to donate some parts/pieces to you and AVI.

If you get a list of what y'all both need by that time, I will see what all I can source for you both.

This. Why the fuk would Iceman fund a community build! There will be a go fund me in no time and a told-ya-so party during the entire build. Let the people in here put their money where their mouth is.. i just doubt they'll be able to talk to Avi the way they do to John. I also believe Iceman may have been sippin' & pinsiding last nite and sent his message after having a few wobbly pops, but to see how fast Ben Heck came back in here offering so much help would have me questioning his intent too. Interesting how Kojak considers it an "honor" to start a thread to begin the divide in the shop. Iceman was being a good dude supporting john where a lot of the Avi support is all from the previous people calling out everything john did, or ate, or drank.

To be fair, John is the one that documented everything he ate/drank/gambled. Pinsiders just responded.

The way things are going maybe I should avoid Texas in 2023. But who knows things might improve or not the next 2 months. The coach has spent enough to see the show continue on. Avi is on his own for his build & will likely get expert advice from many here. Any donations can go to Avi on his thread, & I will just work on Doug's whitewood from the funds already provided.

Dee-Bow, it's two-fold:

1) Yes, absolutely I will donate time to spite Ice. He and GWJ refused to take any advice and look what they got for it. A $6000 pile of wires, beer cans and expired meat.

2) Somewhat to the above, yes pinball is hard but GWJ hadn't even gotten to the hard part yet (he doesn't know this because he doesn't know what he's doing) Squirting out a WW in less than a week will demonstrate just how TERRIBLE this build has been. Plus it's X-man, the time of charitable giving!

To be fair, these same people offering Avi help called John a thief, scam artist, and a wanna-be member of the pinabll elite. Their intentions where NEVER to help or offer meaningful opinions. They constantly shit on every choice he made including how to treat his wife, the operator, how to eat, where to enjoy his pension. Honestly, it was fukkin disgusting how they talked to him. But that's just my opinion.

The reality will hit soon enough Dee Bow. Thx for that and you are spot on.

I don’t care what Avi, Ben or anyone else does. Have fun with it. Jump on in the pool. Will be fun watching it from the sidelines.

Whelp, the inevitable has occurred. I was not necessarily expecting this to die on Christmas Day but it is what it is. I actually respect the fact that iceman44 applied his investing principles and cut bait on a losing proposition. I know that sounds harsh but I am sure that he took a look at this and determined it was not a viable path ahead. Maybe this will help stimulate John to continue ahead, maybe it won’t.

That’s my opinion too. And then Avi started shit talking John. Which was strange to me.

Part of the plan to drum up more “interest”.

It worked. Now playing right into John’s hands

The treatment of John is disgusting and partially why I wanted to give him a chance.

He just doesn’t seem to care however

AVI never asked the community for $100k to build 10 games from scratch in 6 months despite having no talent or work ethic.

That's attempted fraud and it needs to end on Pinside.

Call the DOJ

The entertainment value of this thread is priceless. I should of got into the bitcoin biz. Had my porkchop almost blackened style on the grill after cooking the brussel sprouts.

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With all due respect, if I continually post on Pinside on how much I drink, my inabliity to satisfy my wife in bed, the expired food I eat, etc, I shouldn't be upset about people commenting on it....and he's not even though you seem to be. Granted, John seems like a good guy but his work ethic along with being the king of TMI is hard to ignore.

In any case, time for opening presents. Merry Christmas everyone.

At the end of the day it’s just pinball. Not like this was the “build of the century”.

Some people here need to step off the high horse and quit taking themselves or this thing so seriously.

It’s Christmas! Have a great day and enjoy the birth of Christ with family and friends.

Onward and upward we go

I was wondering how long your patientce would last. It's pretty obvious GWJ lacks the skills to complete the build or even manage a team to do so.

To Summarize:

1) Pinball Builder-to-be asks repeatedly for a 'whale' or a few 'mini-whales' to help fund his desire to build a pinball machine or machines
2) Onlookers mention that perhaps that isn't the best way to go about things, and that pinball is hard
3) Pinball builder-to-be presses on with financial request
4) 'Mini-Whale' agrees to fund the project, with no heavy guidelines or restrictions
5) Pinball Builder-to-be creates unrealistic timelines, forced onto himself, for the project.
6) Onlookers mention that the timeline is extremely unrealistic
7) Pinball Builder-to-be presses on anyway
8) 'Mini-whale' sends installments @ $1k each, 6 total, to fund the project.
9) Pinball Builder-to-be squanders time, effort, and money, while completely changing a fully functional plan from a successful pinball designer, in the name of basically just creating a Daily Blog of his life
10) Onlookers wonder WTF is going on
11) Pinball Builder-to-be presses on with Daily Blog.
12) Apprentice enters the fray
13) Apprentice shows real desire to move forward with fixing games, and helping out
14) Daily Blogs continue
15) Apprentice catches on to how things are REALLY going day to day, with Pinball Builder-to-be.
16) Onlookers suggest Apprentice do his own build, and will assist with parts and/or money.
17) Pinball Builder-to-be presses on
18) 'Mini-Whale' doesn't like the direction things are going, and blames Onlookers for causing a divide, despite Pinball Builder-to-be having shown ZERO motivation to really do.....well anything.....with the pinball project.
19) ...or it dies.

Beechwood do you have a running list of what this $6k was spent on?

I have seen maybe $2k worth of procs and pinball parts. Any idea where the rest went?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Most likely beer. That & paypal fees, & taxes. Our Mexican dollar & high cost of shipping numerous boxes into Canada.

Somebody gave you the chance to steer the ship around, and you blew it.

It isn't Ice's fault, Avi, or anyone else. You had the opportunity and you failed. Sorry for being so blunt here, but it's been painful watching this unfold for months now with your poor work ethic.

O....k.....

I think that's enough internet today.

Wishing all here a very trailer-trash Merry Christmas and an outstanding 2023.

As one of those shit talkers I found that to be be strange too. I tried to point this “know your place” behavior out back during the operator incident but that fell upon mostly deaf ears. The audience has been enamored with this newest cast member and even I welcomed the energy but alas this appears to have come at a price.

Regardless of the bailed backer this show could and should most certainly go on. Egos from ALL parties must be checked at the door. My vision for the future is one where the elder teaches and manages the eager young student who now brings his own newfound assets to the table.

Or not…

While we are being blunt, his lifestyle is not condusive to a good work ethic. He spent more time on planning his next drink than the project at hand. He has a great heart and possibly some unrevealed skills, but difficult to utilize them to their fullest with his life choices that he seems proud of. I have never know someone to talk about their obsessive drinking like a badge of honor as does GWJ.

Jesus christ people while you're all at eachothers throat i'll say this.

A: I'm not building this to fuck over john. If he sincerely didn't want me to build it. i wouldn't. but i am doing it to spite ice, and i'm going to have a good time doing it. You don't come into my DM's and act like nonce and then blame it on me. John is my best buddy, i care about him.

B: I'm not going to see a single cent from whatever ice gave John. this is C O M P L E T E L Y separate, I'm going to keep it that way. John isn't going to help me on it. that's fine. He's still going to give me advice and overlook it. that's all i ask of him, John is busy with his own interpretation. it would be rude and foolish for me to assume or guilt him into helping on mine. but along with John there will be everyone on pinside here. understand i will take E V E R Y O N E's suggestion into account. If you don't like a person that suggests something that's not my issue. I like everyone here.

C: I am not taking any crazy donations. i will accept the help for the whitewood. and complete the whitewood. and if it works out good. we can talk about making more with a full cabinet and artwork and whatever. but i'm not accepting crazy amounts of money. I don't even own a vimeo and i don't know what it is. I will accept parts towards it's completion but not money.

D: If john feel's as though i've betrayed him or belittled him. All i can say is i'm sorry if he felt that way. It was never my intention and i sincerely appreciate his company and what he's done for me in the crazy journey. I still hope we're good friends.

Avi is on his own for his build. The experts here can guide him along his journey. No problem giving him some space in my area to work, unless he gets the boot by the operator. Little things can truely set him off, like working in his side & leaving a mess. Sometimes it is the little things in life, like the advice I might give that is not listened to. Enjoying my xmas day by myself & likely will enjoy some beers soon. Do some more contacts since I am behind on the 1 or few per day quota.

Let's all be VERY forward and realistic here. Most of us here knew this day of reckoning would be coming from day 1. As a matter of fact I have been tossed from this very thread for my terse and pointed ways of posting about it. I make no apologies for it. A few of you posted here the very same things I was accused of being a broken record of while I was gone and patted yourselves on the backs for it.

There is absolutely no one to blame here for ANY of this other than John. Not Avi, not Iceman, not Pinside members, nor any other of the cast of characters that have come along in this soap opera. It is John, and only John. To have taken $6K of money from a donor to build a pinball machine and to have this sickly looking thing of a whitewood as the only thing to show for months later it is nothing less than appalling.

The daily counts of beer, food, bars, and slot playing versus actual work, progress and actual commitment to build this pinball machine are characteristly and unshockingly akin to John's previous adventures. Once again it will be up to others to rescue him. If that's what some of you desire, no one is here to stop you.

John you are a great dude, have awesome inspirations and have some fun ideas. Your business and work ethics just are not up to par with the ideas. You should NEVER take a $ for an upfront build ever again. Take your ideas, get a prototype built and ready FIRST for the pinball world to spend their money on. I would still, anytime we could cross paths, sit over some good beer and talk business with you. I do also encourage you to finish this whitewood with a renewed and committed effort. Not to prove any of us wrong, but to prove to yourself that you WILL & CAN do it.

As to being honered to open the thread for Avi, it's because I want to see the original design built as shown by Mr Norris. This thread already had it's dividing members split months ago, so please don't try to kid yourself or anyone else here over that fact. If someone wishes to read further into that, oh well, be my guest. For anyone to dump John's shortcommings on Ben Heck is also massively ridiculous.

As for my name? It's Jack, not Kojack.

Yes it started pretty poor for him at the beginning. Some here were really verbally harassing him. I'm surprised they were not moderated due to their failing to "be nice".

However, the few times John started to make progress, 95% of the people here were jumping in, offering encouragement, support, advice, and generally getting behind GWJ.

Then it went to pot once John showed his lack of interest.

Merty Christmas Iceman and All!!

I have absolutely nothing more to say.

I feel like my favorite TV series just got cancelled mid-season.

Some of those were who got burned by his previous adventure. Turns out they were not wrong.

I think it’s more of a season finale.