"Desert Landscaping" bleh

I love how people started explaining how to wire up the game and program MPF. I imagine both GWJ an Avi making this “huh” face as they suddenly realize it’s actually really fucking hard to make a pinball machine.

I re-themed an EM to electronic operation so I had no screen to program and a layout already done with minor tweaks and I still have 1000 hours plus into it over four years. Pinball machines are COMPLICATED! It’s way more than a bunch of parts on a piece of wood. It uses a dozen different and often not compatible skill sets to make one.

That, plus his apparent lack of interest in actually making it now, means this game is never happening. And he’ll be in good company - just go look at the graveyard of forum posts for projects started and never finished. This shit is HARD.

Here’s my game for reference when I brought it out to the local barcade.

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Excellent post. Just because you can repair games does not mean that you can build one from scratch. I freely acknowledge that I do not have the skill, patience or drive to build a machine.

Also, the number of hours put in thus far, has not exceeded double digits. probably barely into double digits. John, you really need to take a good realistic view of this project and the likelihood that you will finish. Do not spend more of ice’s money if you are unwilling to properly commit to this project. It’s better to stop now before more money is frittered away.

I know John will ignore this post as he has all the others…I really don’t know why I keep banging my head against the wall expecting a different result?

I have over 400 hours over 15 months just for debugging a previously existing retheme software project.

I loved your project and read it a few times before I tried to gut an EM and retheme it. You did an amazing job. People should look at this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-hot-rod-a-tribute-to-classic-em-pinball

It's really not that hard to screw some parts to a piece of wood and wire it to a pinball controller. Making it fun is incredibly hard though

If the machine is not complete by TPF can we at least have a slot reserved in the seminar session for a Q&A with Beechwood and GreatwichJohn

Beer total was 5 & 2 pitchers. 2 Olands with Mr BMW, 2 pitchers at the Oasis Bar, & 3 Coors Light cans replacing some Data East drop targets. Feeling a little better today, & did some nickel betting. Broke even so that is a win. The wall box owner has a xmas special going on, double the credits. So I get 4 credits for a buck. Nice to be able to choose a wide variety of single credit songs.

Perhaps i'm deadly wrong but i'm positive John knows how to program it. It's true that i did kind of look at it like 'what the fuck' when i first looked at it. but as other people have said. It was much easier once i looked over. and over. and over and over it again and again..... See if i was to make a pinball machine. I would've done WAYYYYYYYY differently. My dumb ass would've tried to hook the coil up directly to a power source. and then use a button that will ground or connect power towards the coil just so the flippers would work. Is that how they work? Fuck if i know but i would've done it just to see LOL.. I personally would've tried not to rely on computers just because the programming for them is far beyond anything i understand.

I'm not trashing John though. I am a godsend amount more inexperienced with this stuff.

It's not my project. i don't claim to be a know it all. I definitely don't try to act like it. But i try to go head first into it just because there is work to be done. it's obvious. Take a look at any of the pictures there is obvious work that has to be done. I just try to do what i can so it goes faster or smoother.

Avi: John does not know how to program anything.

I don't know. Pinballs with computers seems to really be John's thing. He actually enjoys working on them as opposed to Electro-Mechnicals. Who knows though. Maybe i've been blinded with too much faith! only John knows the answer to that... And the deadline.

Knowing how solid state games work and being able to use that knowledge to repair them is a lot different than writing computer code though.

Regardless, John has mentioned he has a programmer lined up to work on the project and we know exactly who it is, so theoretically the programming isn't gonna be John's to deal with.

Totally fair point. Excuse my ignorance and lapse of thought..... Everyone knows who's the programmer? I don't... Is it treyboy?

Well not really everyone knows, just it has been known. Got posted a few months ago, but considering how active this thread is that's long buried by now, here's the post - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/moby-dick-let-s-talk-whales-and-whale-watching/page/103#post-7127020

Ooooooooo...... that's embarrassing.... the programmer lives in beaver bank. Same place i live x.x He is not going to look at anything i did as favourable lol

He modified, Ctrl-Alt-Delete to, Ctrl-Alt-Hammer

However; computers by themselves are definitely not his thing. He’s said as much, and demonstrated with the hammer.

The ‘coding’ isn’t THAT crazy tho - MPF makes homebrew pinball accessible to non programmers. You still gotta be ok with computers and know what you want to do ruleswise and be prepared for hours and hours and hours of frustration and thinking and problem solving at times.

9 days

John doesn't know how to reset an email password.

Even as an onlooker, I can tell you this is the most wrong you've been in your life, lol.

that's 25 forty-hour work weeks or 1/2 year of a full time job.

10 forty-hour work weeks.

-Rob
-visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my re-engineered Type 1 sound board for classic Williams games

Does anyone know if any of these systems will operate on a Mac OS?

Let’s say someone wanted to develop and test a new game layout and rule set. What’s the best way to do that virtually before even touching a white wood? Do these files then port to CNC for playfield cutting, and to the controllers for running the physical game? If so, that is beyond cool.

Sorry, there is 100% no way he has even the slightest clue how to program, unless you can use a hammer.

Really?!? .... he can't even get his email working on a new computer

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This is why I am currently selling my homebrew stuff...I would LOVE to make a game, but I just do not have that kind of time right now.

MPF runs on mac no problem. You can also use the keyboard to simulate switch hits, so you can code a vast majority of the game without having a physical game done or near you. MPF comes with a "smart virtual hardware" platform that can simulate having real hardware.

You are probably mainly asking about some form of virtual pin integration like integrating VPX to MPF so you can design your pin in VPX and code it in MPF, then move to the real world. Surprise, it does that too.

https://docs.missionpinball.org/en/latest/hardware/virtual/virtual_pinball_vpx.html

This is a very helpful post! I’ve been kicking around an idea for a home brew and was wondering this exact question. Plan to design it on a virtual platform and then translate that to the actual machine. A buddy of mine is a programmer so he can do that part for me.

Is there really a need for a white wood if the game has been heavily tested in VPX?

I haven't personally used VPX, but I've heard from other homebrewers it does work decently well, though you can imagine there some tweaks that have to be made.

If memory serves correctly, didn't Nightmare Before Christmas start out as a virtual design for testing?

Lets see about programing, took Fortran & Basic back in the 80's at university. Got to say that is where I started drinking a lot of beer at 19, which is our legal age. This morning Drag Race finally made it back to the country. Found out Mr BMW walked on my power bar & turned off the fridge. So my ice cream & a loaf of bread got wasted. The Seagulls made quick work on the loaf of bread. All the sweets got thawed, so I will be on a sugar high to go along with my salad.
The operator has been here cleaning up his area, & Avi arrived after lunch to go to the Friday Night Pinball Social.

IMG_0338 (1) (resized).JPG

Ok how can you be sure it was Mr BMW? It might have been you after drinking several beers! I know I've done shit like that after drinking only to wake up and find the stove on or something really bad! And why would a loaf of bread be wasted? Bread doesn't need refrigeration...

Oh well anyway, think about if you're sure before you go blaming someone unless you saw it happen. And if you did, you would not have lost any ice cream! I know I've made the mistake of assuming someone did something, or stole something, only to find out they didn't do it and I felt horrible! I learned never to place blame on anyone, unless I was certain, or I caught them in the act. Ok back to the build!!! Or not...

I don't know about NBX for sure -- but PantherCityPins if you want a good example of doing virtual first then translating to an actual table -- read up on the Sonic homebrew thread by Ryan McQuaid. If you don't already know the story - he did exactly this and and modes running and everything with the virtual table before moving to a whitewood.. finishing code.. and eventually getting hired in the industry with this as his resume. That right there was a ton of dedication to an idea and following thru. And you can tell it was a TON of time..

It was Mr BMW for sure. I did not go near the fridge after my second beer in the afternoon. He got the munchies & got chips & dip from the fridge. No Big Deal! Shit happens & will continue to happen. Avi is helping the operator a little this afternoon.

So is Mr BMW the secret programmer? Is that why he thinks he has a job?

No Mr BMW is not a team member. Avi is hard at it on some plastic coin mechs with a dremmel cutting wheel. Stinks bad, end result to be determined if they work or into the trash.

Is he doing edibles in the shop, or is it a free smoke zone?

who wants to let methos know that you're not supposed to smoke the edibles the same way you "do" Marijuana!?! I'm impressed if he got one to stay lit!

Food munchies since he is trying to quit smoking cold turkey. Pack a day guy. Showed us his slot car that he was offered almost $1k. Just some box style car molded in white. Very low production, only 3 or 4 known. Looked like a piece of shit dinky toy. Must be like Supreme for pinball. He still would not sell it, selling some other $20 - $60 slot cars instead. Got a team member going to look at his slot car set in the attic, Smokey & The Bandit. Avi does not want to do any contacts today, gone on strike for lack of pay!

A few people smoke in the shop, Mr BMW in the past & how long do you think he can stay off the smokes (day 2). Might be on his way for smokes today after he passes his criminal record check for his new job. The other guy is the bus driver, another who shows up on occasion to drink some buds.

I hope so, know your worth Avi!

My bad ... you are all good.
The leap should be simple

So John, what next steps are you doing on the whitewood? Seems like Avi has been doing most things here recently…

Technically you don't even write code for 99% of MPF, you are just building YAML config files.

MPF is actually really easy and if GWJ can focus on following each step of the tutorial carefully and learning some stuff, he can get the game flipping.

Nice just got home Avi had a puff & a bud at the social. Took him to the bar for happy hour for me. 5 beers at the bar, & 5 at the social. I educated him on pounding on glass for the bus leaving. 2 pounds bus still leaving, 2 more heavier pounds & the driver stops. Avi did not see the heavy pounds when the driver leaves. Showed Avi my nickel betting strategy & lost $4 over 1.5 hours. No porn today! Had enough getting Drag Race out of the shop

When was the last time you worked on the white wood and when will be the next time you work on it?

Man. I own a bar. I drink more than most people. I truly am concerned about your drinking John.

John has totally lost interest in the project. He talked a big game at the start but he has probably spent less than 20 hours on it in the last three months. However, he only has to answer to ice so it really doesn’t matter what john does or doesn't do.

I will likely get back to work on it Saturday. Avi might still be on strike so I will go it alone, or not.

Well I look at it every day at the shop. Think about rules & stuff in my sleep, not a nightmare. But I do lose sleep at times.

I am a light weight drinker in my area. Never got a DUI, never been to the drunk tank, & know when I am at my limit with the yips.