(Topic ID: 286848)

MMRLE Blows Fuse F1 on the board to the right of coin box

By jrawlinson_2000

8 months ago


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  • 31 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by LTG
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    #1 8 months ago

    So I have had the game from new and ever since I took it out of the box every month or so it blows fuse F1 (6.2A slow-blow) on the board to the right of the coin box.

    When I noticed this fault I did raise a ticket with CGC and they got me to do a bunch of things but nothing fixed the issue.
    The problem I have is, it can take weeks or a month before it blows, so putting in a 'fix' then means waiting for ages before you know that fix did not work.

    So I kind of gave up on ever finding the fix and lived with it. - That's a lesson, if I get an issue like this again, the machine goes back to the supplier.
    But since doing the upgrade kits, of topper, GI, XL display I find myself playing it every day so, so now its blowing about every two weeks, a right royal pain in the arse.

    So I raised another ticket with CGC they have been helpful but we still have not found the issue.

    We have tried covering the ball launch coil in electrical tape, unplugging and then plugging back in the 3 solenoid boards.

    Now I am being asked to put cardboard or foam behind the connectors where the solenoid boards push down on the main board, as when pushing the solenoid boards in, the main board can flex and maybe not make a good connection.

    This got me thinking as when I pushed in the solenoid boards they do not go in far, I expected a good old 'click' and well seated, yes they do have locking screws to hold them in place but they felt like they were touching not really 'seated'.
    I was surprised how little they actually 'sat' in the connector.

    Is this a design fault? With the shaker and general pinball vibrations maybe a loose seated pin is causing the fuse to blow.
    But that said when I replace the fuse the game is fine for a dozen or so power ons' and I have not pressed home anything, but sure enough is two weeks or so it will blow again!

    I am at my whits end with this issue, I am thinking of getting another solenoid board and replacing one to see what happens then if the fuse blows move the board to another position.

    Or maybe make a cable that connects the solenoid board to the main board and use hex posts to mount the solenoid board higher up off the main board.

    Finally to explain what happens when the fuse blows, I power on, the system starts to boot, then usually some coils fire (the trolls pop up a bit, a ball ends up in the shooter lane) and the drawbridge motor keeps running. Then I know the fuse has gone. I replace the fuse and the game will power up and play fine for two or three weeks turning on every day.

    Any suggestion or help much appreciated.

    #2 8 months ago

    At this point you should not have to foot the bill for a solenoid board, they (CGC) should. Especially if it is used for troubleshooting. I am assuming that you are alone with this issue. (meaning that you have not found anyone else that has had a problem of this nature. The real test of a company's brand is when things like this occur and their response to the issue. I know ( ball buster) problems can take time to resolve, but it sounds like this one has gone on too long without resolution.

    #3 8 months ago

    This will be interesting. I have the same problem with my MMRLE.

    #4 8 months ago
    Quoted from gpa_joe:

    This will be interesting. I have the same problem with my MMRLE.

    I had the same type of issue on an MMRLE, with a fuse popping on boot. It was that fuse said, but sometimes a different one. Sometimes coils fried as well. I tried a few things, but the issue resolved itself somehow. Only issue I see now is it powers up with no lights, maybe once or twice a year. It's been solid for around 3 years.

    Someone messaged me recently, about a post I did 4 years ago about it having the same issue with his MMRLE. Sounds like a manufacturing defect. I figured it might have something to do with the CPU sending mixed messages at boot during the startup and check sequence and energizing certain drive transistors to long. It's not an intermittent short, otherwise it'd be happening in gameplay and on a more frequent basis.

    #5 8 months ago
    Quoted from gpa_joe:

    will be interesting. I hav

    Well Well... the power of Pinside! This problem looks more widespread.

    #6 8 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Sounds like a manufacturing defect. I figured it might have something to do with the CPU sending mixed messages at boot during the startup and check sequence and energizing certain drive transistors to long. It's not an intermittent short, otherwise it'd be happening in gameplay and on a more frequent basis.

    I agree it must be a manufacturing defect as it has never blown during game play is 5 years just on boot-up.

    I wonder if the solenoid board or main board has been re-visioned since the game first came out, you know to iron-out bugs or fix manufacturing defects.

    In the other remakes do they use the same big board with solenoid boards on it? - I looked in the AMr manual and it looks like the solenoid board is now one board in the backbox, so to me that looks like the MMr solenoid board config was a bad idea so they changed it.

    What about the new MMr Royal editions? Do they use a solenoid board in the backbox?

    #7 8 months ago

    I have this same problem on my mmr. One of the blue
    solenoid board has a short in it. When i would power the game on it would either blow the fuse or engage the right flipper. If the fuse didn't blow it would smoke the coil. Tech support had me move the blue board over to another spot and see if the problem follows. Once I moved the board the right troll will pop up. I need to buy a new board Just haven't gotten around to do it. I always watch the game when it boots up now to make sure I catch anything energized until it's bought and replaced.

    Also sometimes when I boot the game up a get a communication error(thought it was the cat cable but it's not that) or the display will be a solid color. Just have to reboot it. Until it works.

    #8 8 months ago
    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    I wonder if the solenoid board or main board has been re-visioned since the game first came out, you know to iron-out bugs or fix manufacturing defects.
    In the other remakes do they use the same big board with solenoid boards on it?

    Kind of wondering the same thing, they obviously changed something after the initial LE run.
    I can check, but I have had zero problems (other than normal pinball issues) with both AFMRLE and MBLE.

    #9 8 months ago
    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    I agree it must be a manufacturing defect as it has never blown during game play is 5 years just on boot-up.
    I wonder if the solenoid board or main board has been re-visioned since the game first came out, you know to iron-out bugs or fix manufacturing defects.
    In the other remakes do they use the same big board with solenoid boards on it? - I looked in the AMr manual and it looks like the solenoid board is now one board in the backbox, so to me that looks like the MMr solenoid board config was a bad idea so they changed it.
    What about the new MMr Royal editions? Do they use a solenoid board in the backbox?

    The new MMR Royals have a solenoid board in the backbox the same as AFMr and MBr. I think that has happened as it is easier to construct games with the same systems.

    We have a MMr standard edition. We have had a few minor issues but overall our game has been fantastic. Ours is like yours with the solenoid boards on the main playfield PCB. A friend of ours operates one with over 15000 plays so I do not think there is a design issue. Blown fuses are normally from shorts. Plenty of issues come from mods so if you have any take them off and see how your game goes. If you cannot find it yourself, get yourself a good tech and get it repaired once and for all.

    #10 8 months ago
    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    We have tried covering the ball launch coil in electrical tape,

    Please try a new coil.

    Quoted from Jon9508:

    Also sometimes when I boot the game up a get a communication error(thought it was the cat cable but it's not that)

    Reseat the cable on the playfield and in the backbox.

    LTG : )

    #11 8 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Please try a new coil.

    Thanks for the suggestion LTG.

    I would ask why, and add that since owning the game it has never blown a fuse while in play and I have hosted many league meets.
    It only ever blows a fuse when powering on, so that must negate most things like shorts, coil issues and so on but must be the surge of current from something at the boot stage.

    I did wonder why CGC asked to cover the ball launch coil in electrical tape, have they had issues like this that were solved by doing so?
    As far as I can tell it does not fire when powering on, I have see the trolls try and pop up and the trough coil kick a ball into the shooter lane when the fuse blows.

    Happy to try anything at this stage as its so frustrating and makes the game un-sell able and un-trade able.

    #12 8 months ago

    To keep eliminating things. Like a coil with a flaky internal short.

    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    I did wonder why CGC asked to cover the ball launch coil in electrical tape,

    To be sure the lugs of the coil weren't coming in contact with the lockdown bar receiver.

    LTG : )

    #13 8 months ago
    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    I did wonder why CGC asked to cover the ball launch coil in electrical tape, have they had issues like this that were solved by doing so?

    I helped a customer with this issue recently and CGC isn't explaining the problem or the fix very well. The problem is that the screws that attach the auto plunger bracket to the game also connects the entire coil bracket to ground. The threads that hold the screws are in the playfield metal hangers, which are grounded through the ground braid. The clue was that the fuse wouldn't blow in coil test when the playfield was on the service rails, but would quickly blow with the playfield lowered, which grounds the bracket through the hanger.

    A spark can jump from anywhere on the coil to the bracket. When I took my customer's auto plunger apart, I found two distinct burn marks. One on the big bracket on the opposite side of the lugs (under the coil) and one on the small bracket that attaches to it near the center of the coil.

    I disconnected the smaller bracket (two screws) and wrapped both brackets completely with electrical tap. I completely covered the hole for the plunger, then cut the hole out with an exacto knife. Haven't heard back from the customer. It's not enough to just wrap the lugs or the coil. You need to completely disassemble and wrap both brackets. That's where the short is happening. Coil brackets aren't typically grounded.

    1 month later
    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    I helped a customer with this issue recently and CGC isn't explaining the problem or the fix very well. The problem is that the screws that attach the auto plunger bracket to the game also connects the entire coil bracket to ground. The threads that hold the screws are in the playfield metal hangers, which are grounded through the ground braid. The clue was that the fuse wouldn't blow in coil test when the playfield was on the service rails, but would quickly blow with the playfield lowered, which grounds the bracket through the hanger.
    A spark can jump from anywhere on the coil to the bracket. When I took my customer's auto plunger apart, I found two distinct burn marks. One on the big bracket on the opposite side of the lugs (under the coil) and one on the small bracket that attaches to it near the center of the coil.
    I disconnected the smaller bracket (two screws) and wrapped both brackets completely with electrical tap. I completely covered the hole for the plunger, then cut the hole out with an exacto knife. Haven't heard back from the customer. It's not enough to just wrap the lugs or the coil. You need to completely disassemble and wrap both brackets. That's where the short is happening. Coil brackets aren't typically grounded.

    So having made this change / 'upgrade', so far I have not had F1 blow!

    I don't want to speak too loudly, just in case MMr hears me.

    #15 7 months ago

    Nope its not fixed, spoke too soon, MMR just blew fuse F1 again!

    Bloody thing, so annoying as it takes weeks to happen, never in a game just when powering on, it starts to boot then part way through it blows F1, some coils trigger, maybe from the F1 blowing.

    All coils look ok, no black marks or scorching, CGC did say replace all coils.... Really? What a pain.

    #16 7 months ago

    Yep mine still is doing the same thing. Even after changing the blue board out. I think I am going to bite the bullet and buy a main green pcb. Maybe that will fix it. Its such a pain watching while it boots up so I can catch it if a coil locks on.

    #17 7 months ago
    Quoted from Jon9508:

    Yep mine still is doing the same thing. Even after changing the blue board out. I think I am going to bite the bullet and buy a main green pcb. Maybe that will fix it. Its such a pain watching while it boots up so I can catch it if a coil locks on.

    I was thinking the same thing, a new main board, was going to get a solenoid board first to see if its one of those, did you try this with all 3?

    #18 7 months ago

    Just one board. My right flipper was triggering. Move the board. Then my right troll was triggering. Now both trigger every once in a while. If I catch it in time I can power cycle and it's fine. I read on the forums some where that the main pcb will cause these problems.

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from Jon9508:

    Just one board. My right flipper was triggering. Move the board. Then my right troll was triggering. Now both trigger every once in a while. If I catch it in time I can power cycle and it's fine. I read on the forums some where that the main pcb will cause these problems.

    Fingers crossed as just ordered a main board... Will report back once its in and tested, planning to turn on 5 times a day.

    1 month later
    #20 5 months ago

    Have you replaced the main board and did it fix the problem?

    I agree this is likely not a short issue as mine only has issues on the boot. WTF?

    #21 5 months ago
    Quoted from gpa_joe:

    Have you replaced the main board and did it fix the problem?
    I agree this is likely not a short issue as mine only has issues on the boot. WTF?

    Funnily enough I was about to post an update.

    So I did replace the main board under the playfield on April 8th so far so good, I have been switching on the game every day at least 3 times a day sometimes 5+ upwards.

    I think that if it goes another month then I will consider the issue fixed.

    Its a pain as the machine has done this since new in box! I'll be glad if its fixed.

    #22 5 months ago

    Wow. I guess I know what I need to buy now

    #23 5 months ago
    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    Funnily enough I was about to post an update.
    So I did replace the main board under the playfield on April 8th so far so good, I have been switching on the game every day at least 3 times a day sometimes 5+ upwards.
    I think that if it goes another month then I will consider the issue fixed.
    Its a pain as the machine has done this since new in box! I'll be glad if its fixed.

    Do you mean the large PCB under the playfiekd or one of the solenoid PCBs?

    #24 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    Do you mean the large PCB under the playfiekd or one of the solenoid PCBs?

    The large green PCB so the one that has everything and the LEDs on it, its about $350 from memory.

    20210328_143007 (resized).jpg

    #25 5 months ago
    Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

    The large green PCB so the one that has everything and the LEDs on it, its about $350 from memory.
    [quoted image]

    Thanks very much. I think ours needs replacing as well. Different issue, we keep blowing a 12V MOSFET. I have already bought a new one but I am pretty determined to work out what is wrong with the original one.

    I happy that you got your game going!

    #26 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    we keep blowing a 12V MOSFET.

    Does your game have the three driver boards under the playfield ? If so I'd swap the bad one with another one. Then if it happens again in the same driver board spot, you'd know the issue is out in the game and not on the driver board. If the 12V MOSFET blows again in a different driver board location, then you'd know it's on the board.

    LTG : )

    #27 5 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Does your game have the three driver boards under the playfield ? If so I'd swap the bad one with another one. Then if it happens again in the same driver board spot, you'd know the issue is out in the game and not on the driver board. If the 12V MOSFET blows again in a different driver board location, then you'd know it's on the board.
    LTG : )

    Hey Lloyd,

    Thanks very much for your input.

    Yes we have a classic version that has 3 solenoid driver boards.

    Our machine blows the MOSFET that controls the loop gates. This is not on the Solenoid boards, the MOSFET is located on the large green PCB and controls both loop gate solenoids. We have blown the left gate circuit 3 times. We have replaced 2 MOSFETS so far and replaced the coil with a brand new one. I have also checked the wiring loom from the large playfield PCB to the coil to make sure there is no short in the wires. That is as far as I have got so far. Machine is not on site so I have time to play around with it.

    #28 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    the MOSFET is located on the large green PCB

    Damn.

    Have you talked to Ryan at CGC or the engineer about this ?

    LTG : )

    #29 5 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Damn.
    Have you talked to Ryan at CGC or the engineer about this ?
    LTG : )

    Yes! Replace the playfield PCB was the answer. I have a replacement but I am determined to find out what is wrong with the original one. I am thinking drive chip or blown diode however I have not had time to follow up.

    Take care!

    1 month later
    #30 4 months ago

    My problem has gotten worse now. I am no longer able to replace the fuse and restart the game. Now the flippers activate and hold until the fuse blows. If I disconnect the flippers from the driver board everything else seems to be fine. If I connect 1 flipper at a time it blows the driver board fuse for the corresponding flipper. Both flippers connected take out the 6.3 fuse. Based on previous comments on this thread I wonder if a new driver board will fix the problem or just be a temporary fix until the main board gets replaced? I have not tried the power cycle trick yet as seems like it’s not really a fix.

    #31 4 months ago
    Quoted from gpa_joe:

    I wonder if a new driver board will fix the problem or just be a temporary fix until the main board gets replaced?

    Open a ticket on the website so the engineer can look into it.

    LTG : )

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