No one's going to care what the shooter lane looks like when these hit the resale market.

Another approach would be putting a bit of cotton torn off of a cotton ball up under the insert to diffuse the LED light (I've done this successfully on the flasher domes on my Shadow since LED flashers are a bit bright). Of course if the LEDs are putting out a lot of heat that might be a long-term concerns for the cotton balls, but if you're just using it for a couple of minutes to see if diffusing the light helps with the problem, might be worth a shot.

Just keep playing your game, the more you play the more black dust will collect under the inserts making them dimmer

Looks like the bulbs are just too bright. Seems like swapping in some different LED's would be the most direct solution without a bunch of drama, right? I have a box of random LED's, I'd send you a few if you were in U.S. Maybe a warm white/ faint yellow instead of that piercing white

When I spoke with CGC a couple weeks ago they were under the impression that only a few tables were affected by the ink transparency issue. At that time the dimming of inserts was going to be implemented in the next game but not on MMR. With the influx of new tickets it looks like they consider it as a possible fix to the issue. I know on WOZ that the insert dimming is very needed and works well. There are 3-4 settings with noticeable differences between the two.

They had also mentioned screening the playfields differently to try to get more ink down and I hope going forward that this is still something they implement in their manufacturing process. I'm really interested to see what the newest wave of unboxings look like to see if any changes have been made or if it's a ship what we got and then fix it once in customers hands. I had a good talk when I called but it is very discouraging to hear about the lack of communication regarding this issues.

You do know that MMR has SMD LEDs mounted to boards for insert lighting, not socketed bulbs that can be changed out, right?

Although this appears to be isolated run It would be nice for us prospective MM buyers ( maybe owners too) to have an idea what numbered games were involved. I didn't catch if CG knows. I certainly will be asking LE or LE NIB sellers. Hope this gets resolved for those loving new game. Ah the world of pinball.

Just change the whole board then, easy

Underside of MMr playfield

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looks pretty easy to service...

The diffuser ideas look a lot better now. I would get some "clear" adhesive shelf paper which is actually a little cloudy, cut it to fit and stick it to underside.

I got my deposit back after the "exact replica" was said to contain the new boards and tiny controller in the backbox, rather than a re-make as was put out there.. I haven't regretted that decision one single time.
I was psyched at the chance to own one until I found out there were gynormous differences. After the slingshot issue and now this, I am securely parked in the "I will NEVER pre order any Pinball machine" camp. I feel bad for all the people who stuck with it and now have unexpected issues on top of the changes they were already settling for.

It shouldn't really come as no surprise that a knock off isn't going to be as good as the original.

In many ways it's better than the original.

Even car companies that have been in business for a century and have made many millions of autos, will still have bad batches of paint.

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MMR promotional video stills. Insert ink looks fine, no diffusers needed.

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I think it's better in a ton of ways.

Good thing no one would ever have to remove that thing.

I can't wait to get my "problem" MMR. So far I have heard of slingshot damage that was rectified in the later models, some sound problems that were fixed, and now some inserts that are sub par. Other than that, you receive a new game that plays and looks like the original for $4-6k less than an original was bringing. Furthermore, you will have the option to have full color display soon with his-res graphics, not colorization and smoothing of dots. I have not seen a MMR sell for less than list price yet. I have yet to see any other machine less than 1 year old retain it's full value.

The amount of negativity depresses me. It really does.

It is depressing to think that the quality of this product changed for the worse at some point. I was super excited for this project but delays and the issues that have cropped up sucks. The fact people are replacing their speakers because the quality of speaker is cheap is depressing. The fact that people cannot read inserts is depressing. The lack of communication is depressing. I continue to read about how excited people are to get their games just to read about damaged decals or other issues.

That's known as the Pinside Effect.

No matter what problem is found, Pinside focuses on it like the world depends on it.

"Yeah, I do expect more for $X,XXX" - Pinside

It's depressing that people think that these issues were intentional. Every project has issues. Everyone makes mistakes. It's what they do to address it that counts.

And people need to be patient and let CGC address this. They are a manufacturer. They are clearly working on solutions. MMR wasn't designed in a day, and it will take whatever it takes to get fixed. And then it will be fixed. End of story.

One day this will be in the rear view mirror, but Pinside just cannot seem to get past these issues. And that's a depressing side of this hobby that I don't enjoy.

But I do enjoy my MMr. And I would still enjoy it if I had washed out inserts.

Marc

Marc

Don't let it. I've read all the forums, suffered the set backs, and the one thing that shuts out the noise is playing in my basement any time I want and sharing it with 8 to 80 year olds. That has always been the value of MM, it's ease of approachability. Yes, people are pissed. Yes, people are afraid of losing money on their original MM. Yes, things have been mismanaged by CGC. All of this however doesn't effect me in my basement. It's mine. I own it.

Okay.

here's an MMR NIB REPAIR KIT list to help folks when their MMR/LE's show up:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-nib-repair-kit

feel free to add to it. i've been using it to help PPS/CGC improve their production. They watch it & I send info by email as well. Lots of improvements have happened since.

cheers

I'm not sure I agree with this line of thinking - I mean, how many pins have ZERO issues, even from the long-term manufacturer (ie Stern)? Every single machine has issues. Got a bad decal from Stern? They'll send you a new decal in the hopes that you are really good at putting on new decals, or you are going to have to pay someone who is. We're not even at the endgame on this - it's an issue that is still being worked on.

It seems that many people are really quick here to take a new pinball manufacturer to task for these issues, when the long-term manufacturer has their own issues as well. I'm not belittling the issue at all - I guess I am lucky to have an older MMRLE, but I've seen a newer one with the issue and, while it's an obvious issue, it wouldn't be a deal breaker at all for me. When I play MMRLE, I never even really "see" the white inserts anyway while playing.

And every original Williams MM was perfect.

For those if you who can't stand all the negativity in a negative thread, there's a perfectly serviceable "are you happy with your MMR?" Owners Circle-j thread that needs your attention.

This is a thread to bitch and complain! And I've got one...

The board with connectors and transistors just hanging off the bottom of the playfield?! Great idea. I can't imagine that will cause any problems down the road with loose or damaged components and connectors.

I just unboxed and set up #24 stainless Build date 2-2-2016, The game looks and plays incredible. I have a beautiful original and the remake to me plays better, tight, smooth, shaker, sound quality is better. As far as the ink on insert issue, it's not the easiest to read on either game when the light comes through at different angles, I do think it could be darker
On both games,at the right angle on both its easier to read. So all in all I'm good,

Thank you PPS,CGC, Stern, the game is gorgeous, look forward to AFM.

can you post some pics of the MM & the MMR of the inserts when lit, same camera angle & distance?

I will work on that for you, in all honesty they are small and not the easiest to read, with extra clear on the MMR it's even harder

Gracias

They should bring back the original milky clearcoat for these remakes.

It will by no means be AFM. You mean AFMR.

Won't owners getting diffusers have to remove the playfield circuit board to put the diffusers into the underside of the inserts?

If damage is done during this process will they get a new drop in playfield then?

Exactly. It's a production fault that slipped quality control both with the playfield manufacturer and Chicago Gaming - which must not happen when selling in a collector market.
Instead of admitting the obvious, they try to argue it away by claiming their super bright LED technology is the culprit.
Would it have been so hard to admit they fucked up and send everyone one an insert decal kit along with a box of chocolates?

Already had to remove mine. No worse than any other board issue on a pinball machine. Only took about 30 minutes to an hour to replace and get hooked back up. Besides all of the wires attached to it pretty easy to swap in and out.

My MM (original) is all LED, and has the comet 2835 twin SMD (very bright) sunlight bulbs under those inserts, and they look perfectly fine, no washout whatsoever.

I'm wondering if the circuit board being directly under the inserts helps concentrate the light more than a single bulb would. A good way to test that would take a cap from a can of spray paint and hold it over the bulb and socket under the PF it would concentrate the light more in that insert instead of casting some strength off as ambient light into the cabinet. Just a thought....

Yea, I was trolling a bit there..sorry. Just remember MMR fan boys saying how there would never be a need.

If it was so easy to remove it I am surprised those with bad inserts have not tried some sort of diffuser solution that has been mentioned by many.

Its the first I have heard of someone dropping the board, what was the reason for doing this? The people I know who bought an MMr range from solder-jockeys to check writers. The check writers would never think of removing the board.

I'm not sure how many people want to experiment with a brand new $8K game without recommendation form CCG first. You don't want to give them an excuse to not honor a warranty.

When I got the game it had a stuck on flasher. The old WMS boards I probably would have just replaced the transistor but with the surface mount stuff on this was out of my league, plus not that good with schematics so probably wouldn't have been able to figure out what to replace anyway. So I put in a ticket and they sent a replacement board and I swapped them. The only issue I see with it is if you have to buy a new one probably going to be real expensive, but maybe not any more than a new PPB for a WMS game.

We need pictures !

Ahh why bother? Metalliks put up pics of his MM with LEDs and we've all seen the earlier MMr's with perfectly fine insert ink and LED's so why keep this up? They obviously had a bad run or this would have been mentioned earlier in the MMr unboxing thread (which is also full of pictures). I could put up pics of my original MM with LED's but just like every other game I added LED's to... there were zero insert issues.

CG wants to involve the LED's to make their LED insert "solution" go down easier for the customers. And judging from some of the customer's replies and their confusion over LED's... it's working

Are you wondering about your original Playfield with dodgy ink or your replacement ???

The castle inserts on MM aren't the easiest to read?? ...ummm ok. And the "extra clear" on the MMr makes it even harder? (head explodes with purple dust)

Can't a guy go from extremely angry to extremely happy overnight with little to no explanation and suddenly drop his demands for pf replacement and then guard his agreement in secrecy?

Here's another thought. Wouldn't all the ones that already came off the line with perfect inserts also have the same issue? Same huge circuit board right?

Why try to confuse the issue? CG's doing a good enough job with that already

Sounds legit to me

From: The most vocal person about the problem.
To: Can't tell you the details but boy am I happy with the deal I picked of the ones they offered. (can't tell you)
Now: Hey everyone, just wait and see. (previous posts deleted) They are great guys trying their best and are going to dim it in software.

Nothing suspicious here. I'm sure dimmed LEDs or little plastic cutout circles on an $8K purchase is satisfactory

Looked at a not installed IPB playfield this weekend. Looked dark. But hard to do a proper comparison without being mounted and lit. But it has already been said the first runs were fine. Didn't they list the bad number range? I haven't see a bad one in person so I wouldn't know from just looking. Lucky the CT people with them have been lucky. Everyone is just watching to see how this is handled before future commitments.

Maybe I didn't word that correctly so chill, in all honesty the diamond pattern or what the correct political term is used, even on my original it is not easy to read a certain angles, especially with the addition of a glare on top (clear coat ) and adding leds.I have both games , another thing I've noticed is the bulb on my original sits directly underneath The Duke portion not the Bourbon .I might also say the 3 inserts on MM are the hardest to read, and going along and looking at 20 other Bally / Williams in a row they are the worst. I'm not defending CGC, PPS,Stern, The game is beautiful, I understand people have waited years for the game, but if every aspect of the game is under a microscope and people are going to consistently Bitch were going to be back to one Manufacturer and a 30 yr old dot matrix for $8995.

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